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evol262
Nov 30, 2010
#!/usr/bin/perl

Zero VGS posted:

Welp, sounds like I'm undervaluing myself. I'm gonna have to figure out what to do today. Try to strongarm this place into another raise, go back to my first plan of lowering myself to 20/hr here and test the waters at the new place, or I could keep pushing the newer place for a better offer, or just say gently caress it and keep applying at more places? I mostly just don't have time to apply/interview because I'm swamped.

You're in a major metropolitan area with a skillset worth 50% more than what you're making, not $5k (and probably more, I'm just not familiar with average wages in Boston).

You're not going to be able to "strongarm" them into getting anything near what you're worth. You also shouldn't take a $5k raise and work 60hrs/wk, especially with a pay cut at the current job.

You should give up on being a lead engineer at a new company or pursuing titles. Instead, play less video games and use that time apply for positions that look like they're just above what you think you can do. Leave work to go interview. Even if you're hourly, if you're so swamped you can't even apply and you think you can swing night work here if you go somewhere else, coming in at night to make up the hours shouldn't be a problem, right?

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evol262
Nov 30, 2010
#!/usr/bin/perl

Sepist posted:

Hidden con to having a fat foodie boss: Recommending a place for lunch that he ends up hating may cost you your job, or at the least his trust. Guess he's not a fan of my sushi joint :( I just keep getting texts that say "your dead"

Respond "you're"

evol262
Nov 30, 2010
#!/usr/bin/perl

MC Fruit Stripe posted:

Does anyone have experience in human cloning, DNA replication, etc? I've got a new sys admin on my team, he's been here probably 3 months. I wish I could plant a whole field of him.

I'm thinking of holding a team meeting in which I scream "why aren't you Aaron" in everyone's face in turn.

I have an identical twin, so +1 on cloning. Sadly, skill transfer through gene expression isn't 1:1. Ace DBA. No sysadmin or Linux skills, and visa versa

evol262
Nov 30, 2010
#!/usr/bin/perl

SSH IT ZOMBIE posted:

Out of curiosity, what do you guys who don't work a ticketing queue do for tracking your tasks\time management?
I've taken to whiteboarding stuff, it sorta works. Sometimes I wish I had a queue but then people would just dump stuff in it.

For some reason it's always incredibly busy or pretty dead. This past week was incredibly busy. It gets me kind of panicky and anxious, and every time I check my email there's a new initiative of something or other that's another hour or two of work for me.

I'm having a hell of a time with it, and I just need to remind myself realistically I'm not even backed up more than a few days.

Org mode

evol262
Nov 30, 2010
#!/usr/bin/perl

Tab8715 posted:

You can get an Eval Edition of RHEL too, granted it's only 30-days :(

You can get a developer subscription for $99, or a plain RHEL subscription for $50. If you really want to play with RHEL for whatever reason (certification, mostly), $50 is pretty easy to swallow.

Fiendish Dr. Wu posted:

OEL is forever! (and like the same thing)

As much as CentOS is, I guess, but the subscription-manager mechanisms still don't work.

evol262
Nov 30, 2010
#!/usr/bin/perl
Why do people assume salary means "get hosed and work a ton of hours for no extra pay?" By all means, stay late when you need to. Go in when you need to. But also leave early when it's slow and you've worked a lot. But a planned issue shouldn't mean an extra, uncomped 20 hours.

evol262
Nov 30, 2010
#!/usr/bin/perl

CLAM DOWN posted:

I was gonna ask if unionizing was a possibility for some of you. But now I get the impression that even mentioning it would cause your employer to literally implode :( And I'm guessing you'd be fired for trying to form a union or join one :(

Unions are federally protected, including forming or joining. In many states, your employer can always find another reason to get rid of you, but you cannot be overtly fired for trying to form or join a union.

Not that unionization would really help, except in protecting goons from themselves. The point of exempt salaried employees is that you can work more than 40 hours a week (or 80 per period) without incurring extra costs on your employer, and you work in a role where that's an expected hazard. Like off-hours maintenance or large migrations or emergency on-call or whatever. But you can also leave early if it's slow. And a lot of employers are good about comping time for stuff like this.

It's pretty much the "I'm so important I can't comp time because I'm irreplacable and they can't run without me!" and "woe is me, my employer bends me over the desk every day and I take it, such is salaried life" goons who have problems.

evol262
Nov 30, 2010
#!/usr/bin/perl

Tab8715 posted:

My boss came into my office yesterday and told me I get to go to IBM Enterprise 2014! :krad:

I'm totally stoked, if anyone wants to meet up and grab a few drinks let me know. I love beer and it tastes that much better when IBM pays for it :guinness:

There are a bunch of things happening with z and POWER Linux and virtualization, but I don't know how many of them are public. Expect to see interesting things. I'm actually sad that I'm missing this, but I'm gonna be out of the country.

evol262
Nov 30, 2010
#!/usr/bin/perl

Dilbert As gently caress posted:

So does anyone here play active parts in User Group meets(VMUG, LUG's, etc)? Like leading discussions, planning their events, and what not?

I am interested in what people feel a pull to or what their user group wants.

I'm an active member of the Phoenix LUG, and I give presentations, though I don't take part in planning other than that.

In my experience, it's mostly three types:

  • users who want to see easily digestible segments about upcoming or new stuff. Bhyve, openshift, openstack, docker, ansible/salt. How to get started with them and do useful stuff in less than an hour as a starting point for their own projects
  • business types (for lack of a better description) who show up in business casual and try to sift through the buzz. Frequently seen asking questions about how this product compares to some commercial product. Probably directors and CTOs staying current without getting too technical
  • smug admins/devs/arch Linux users who frequently ask questions which could be on hackernews or bofh punchlines so everyone knows how important and with it they are

Solicit suggestions, but at the risk of sounding elitist, the kind of people who drive groups don't know poo poo. The quiet people will speak up on lists and message boards, and they may actually be able to give it useful direction. In general, though, meeting twice a month (once as a "general bullshit and beers at some bar/restaurant" and once where some VMware solutions architect or engineer or whatever gives a deep dive on vMarketingName) works best in my experience.

A general bs night gives a chance to find out what people are excited about and may want to hear about in a more organic setting than raising their hand in a call for speakers, and a deep dive on lets them learn more about what they're excited about. Or vAnotherMysteryProduct, which may be cool if people knew what the hell it did.

evol262
Nov 30, 2010
#!/usr/bin/perl

jaegerx posted:

Don't go that far. SQL is great to know. Too many devs rely on sqlalchemy and it's ruby equivalent(active record?). Seriously. Learn SQL. It's amazing and will save you massive amounts of dev time.

Sequel is the equivalent (AR is nice, but a monster that's hard to use without the rest of rails).

LINQ does some really dumb things, but ORMs (broadly) write better queries than devs. Sad but true. Learning SQL to beat the orm is like learning assembly to beat the compiler: sometimes it happens, but most of the time it's better than you unless you're secretly a DBA

evol262
Nov 30, 2010
#!/usr/bin/perl

jaegerx posted:

I started in perl and the php with dev work which was my first attempt at SQL. Luckily my company actually had MySQL come in and do training for the
MySQL certs so I got to actually learn how to use SQL.

Now I prefer my own syntax rather than sqlalchemy because I know what I want and can use SQL to get the data. It's really just what you want to learn.

If you've worked in IT for a few years you're going to be needing something out of an SQL database eventually.

I'm not disagreeing that SQL is good to know. I'm arguing that the average developer is better off following ORM koans than writing raw queries, since the average developer doesn't know much about how database engines work, what might trigger a table scan, when you should and shouldn't use unions, when (and how) to write complex joins, etc.

A lot of developers used to have raw cursors from VB or use mysql_blah in php. But nobody ever said they were good at it.

It's good to know how to pull apart a database and write queries or work around the ORM when you need to. But the ORMs these days are at least as good as the average developer.

evol262
Nov 30, 2010
#!/usr/bin/perl
We use bluejeans (as of a few months ago). Haven't seen any feedback problems specific to bluejeans unless you dial into bluejeans from intercall. It's probably normal mic feedback, but the plugin updates... often, and using the newest version helps a lot

evol262
Nov 30, 2010
#!/usr/bin/perl

hackedaccount posted:

Gonna ask here too: How do you guys keep up on cutting-edge'ish technologies? Not learning them, but just hearing about them. I got into OpenStack in early 2012 so it wasn't exactly ground floor but it was fairly early. Right now I'm getting into Mesos and evidently it's been around for several years, I had no idea.

Are there specific news sites that cover stuff like this? Certain people on Twitter? How do you guys hear about new up and coming open source projects?

I still read slashdot, and hackernews (though hackernews is a cesspool full of garbage projects, self-aggrandizing, and people who've never worked on major projects, some good stuff and general industry trends floats up out of there every once in a while), r/python, conferences, user groups. I also unironically learn about a lot of things when people file RFEs requesting support for them or messages to mailing lists announcing that they've added support for openstack/ovirt to ${some_project} I've never heard of.

evol262
Nov 30, 2010
#!/usr/bin/perl

psydude posted:

We knew about it quite literally as it was being released to the public, so we were proactive as poo poo; however it's slowly starting to trickle up to higher levels of management, all of whom are increasingly worried.

Detecting and blocking it right now depends on signatures. But the real problem will be everything that's not behind an IDS.

It's patched. Grab the new packages.

evol262
Nov 30, 2010
#!/usr/bin/perl

Roargasm posted:

I spun up baby's first barebones CentOS 7 instance this weekend after learning system administration on Windows 2008R2/2012R2 (only hobbyist experience with Ubuntu 12.x LTS before that) and love it. I must have spent 8 hours on it so far doing hobby server stuff over the weekend. Systemd, you're cool. Firewalld, you're way cool. SELinux, you are hosed :mad: Every time I got confused or blocked from doing something, the answer seemed to have been "well, we didn't develop the package with SELinux on, so you probably shouldn't run it with it enabled."

Stop running janky software from lovely devs. Srs.

I'd be surprised if there was a single official Red Hat (and CentOS correspondingly) package was wasn't developed with SELinux on. Yes, it's painful for us, but it removes the pain for you to have us do it, and it's a bit deal internally.

audit2allow is your friend, as long as you don't start randomly enabling file_t stuff

HatfulOfHollow posted:

Just disable SElinux. It's such a pain to get things running with it enabled.

Security is hard. Let's go shopping!

evol262
Nov 30, 2010
#!/usr/bin/perl

jaegerx posted:

Something very bad happened to Xen the Hypervisor which required all those big companies to reboot their xen servers this weekend. So if you run Xen as your hypervisor I suggest contacting your vendor if you have one. ex RedHat/Suse/Etc.

If you have a cloud server and they run Xen and they haven't done anything yet, I'd recommend you ask them.

NOPE. DO NOT DO THIS.

If a mod is watching, please remove these posts, srs.

I know you may think this is ok and you're being good or it makes you feel important, but it's poo poo exactly like this that blows CVEs. When Kaminsky told people he found a flaw in DNS but wasn't going to tell people what it was until a fix was out, people went hunting.

Your vendor also isn't going to tell you unless you're a huge special snowflake, which you probably aren't.

I'm all for disclosure once it's public, but even acknowledging that there's going to be a vulnerability announced in a specific projects lets people know they shoudl look.

evol262 fucked around with this message at 23:31 on Sep 29, 2014

evol262
Nov 30, 2010
#!/usr/bin/perl
There's an embargoed vulnerability, yes, but your vendor isn't going to tell you anything about what it is (if they were going to, they already would have).

I guess I prefer that any indication of severity ("something very bad") or any real details stay under the hood. I don't run or maintain that product either, and it's been pretty much an open secret for a couple of days, but a general "don't talk about vulnerabilities if there's any possibility you may have private knowledge" is generally fair advice.


Everybody knows Amazon had to reboot a portion of AWS because of Xen. But knowing which 10% and why is part of the puzzle. Giving them information that another public, well-known company (it's not a secret who jaegerx works for) also runs Xen and has had to reboot lets researchers compare versioning and start bisecting it. Every bit of information counts with embargoed security issues.

jaegerx posted:

Hence why I waited till all of the big companies have already fixed the flaw. Now the smaller ones might not know about it and need to get on the horn.

This is not how it works. Why do you think "getting on the horn" will accomplish anything for small companies?

evol262 fucked around with this message at 23:46 on Sep 29, 2014

evol262
Nov 30, 2010
#!/usr/bin/perl

Tab8715 posted:

Thanks for all serial connection/terminal chat, this is the kind of stuff you don't find while googling...


This is something that has always perplexed me, what key am I suppose to press to make certain it's not actually taking a command? I'm assuming space is pretty safe?

Also, what's with puTTy and pasting into the terminal? Sometimes, if you have a bunch of text in your buffer, accidentally click in the puTTy terminal window it'll paste everything and even enter that input. I'm suspecting it's taking a new-line as enter? Is there a way to avoid this?

I once accidentally pasted a bunch of input into script during production. It broke a ton of stuff and it took me days to figure out :suicide:

Don't middle-click?

evol262
Nov 30, 2010
#!/usr/bin/perl

PCjr sidecar posted:

Heh, bash isnt even in the FreeBSD base.

Even if it were, sh is not bash, which makes FreeBSD immune unless you're stupid enough to literally write public bits or CGI scripts in bash

evol262
Nov 30, 2010
#!/usr/bin/perl

CLAM DOWN posted:

I never said that, I'm not sure where you got that from. Are you familiar with labour and job-related human rights laws in other countries? That's what I'm referring to.

Note that this thread often gives a misleading idea of labor rights and disputes in the US that is only valid for exempt workers, contract workers, or desperately poor people held out as examples.

Europe has stronger protections (in general), but the US is not the shithole it's presented as

evol262
Nov 30, 2010
#!/usr/bin/perl

JHVH-1 posted:

I'm used to doing stuff like that on linux anyway so if it were a windows work machine I would have cygwin installed and write up a bash script or one liner or these days I would leverage ansible.

Cygwin is awful. Shell scripts are awful. Net::SSH works on Strawberry Perl. Python's paramiko. SSH.Net for .NET/PS. Ansible or salt if you want to roll out a config management system. Mcollective if you want something like it (broadcast to clients on a message queue). Cygwin never

evol262
Nov 30, 2010
#!/usr/bin/perl

JHVH-1 posted:

Well seeing as they just need to run a few commands on a group of servers, and I don't know their level of knowledge and the amount of time to dedicate to the task, to me having cli bash, ssh etc. and banging out something real quick so I can move onto something more important would have a benefit. Some of us are sys admins, and quick and dirty works. We don't have to maintain it, and it doesn't have to be something built to last it just has to get the job done so you go with what you know.
I wanted to learn python in my last job so I went out and did it and started writing all my scripts in that instead. I do prefer it, but now where I am at everything is bash again.

I was a sysadmin for years before I was a developer. Quick and dirty is great for one-off stuff. It's a complete cluster if your quick and dirty (or script that was never dirty in the first place) ends up staying around for years, and the next guy inherits a shitload of "quick and dirty" scripts that are barely documented and do everything.

Regardless of the amount of time to dedicate to the task, how long this script is going to stay around for matters a whole lot when choosing tools.

evol262
Nov 30, 2010
#!/usr/bin/perl

Grouchio posted:

My Assignment (Image Demonstration): (Example page) http://thing.cs.usm.maine.edu/~zanerj/281/demopages/images.pdf

(Evalutation Page) http://thing.cs.usm.maine.edu/~zanerj/281/admin/demospecs.htm

Due Date: Tuesday Night.

My Average Grade in this class: F

What I currently have: file:///C:/Users/Ian/Documents/Ian_html2/image_demonstrations.html (search the link)

My amount of patience: Long gone.

You can try asking, but web design (and/or computer science) may just not be cut out for you. What exactly is the problem?

Edit: inb4 "computer science is hard so you shouldn't do it" is elitist. I'm happy to help through anything, just being plain.

evol262 fucked around with this message at 03:57 on Oct 20, 2014

evol262
Nov 30, 2010
#!/usr/bin/perl

jaegerx posted:

Dilbert as gently caress isn't cut out for it either but bless his little heart he keeps trying.

As far as I know, Dilbert does neither CS nor web design. The skills needed for administration are just as arcane, but still different

evol262
Nov 30, 2010
#!/usr/bin/perl

Grouchio posted:

@Evol262: I don't know half of what I'm exactly doing, I can never catch up to the rapid lecture material, and I could care less about making websites. I'm just trying to learn programming skills to get into things like CIA analysis, and I've been slaving over this since Thursday after I flunked a test for getting one part of image link-coding wrong!
If you failed a test for getting one small part wrong, I'd appeal to the department chair or dean.

Computers are rapid. If you don't understand the material now, it's only going to get worse. Utilize office hours or get a tutor.

Grouchio posted:

To be more specific, I'm currently trying to get up an example thumbnail and background image before figuring out how to add a footer and two sides. And then dread the next big, confusing assignment that will be due in three weeks in an endless cycle of torture.

Post the HTML. But HTML should not be this hard. And something you like shouldn't be "torture". If you don't like it and you're not good at it, how do you expect to do it for 40 years?

evol262
Nov 30, 2010
#!/usr/bin/perl

Grouchio posted:

file:///C:/Users/Ian/Documents/Ian_html2/image_demonstrations.html

...What if you put it in the search engine? I reached it from there.
The file:/// URI doesn't work on the web.

The location bar or whatever Windows calls it now is not a "search engine".

You need to host it on a webserver somewhere or paste the contents onto a website (pastebin or whatever) for anyone else to see it.

Please utilize office hours.

evol262
Nov 30, 2010
#!/usr/bin/perl

Grouchio posted:

...And my parents thought I had potential.

That I could master whatever field I followed with passion.

Apparently I have no such passion here.

Most fields build on themselves. IT/CS included. If you jump into a 200 level course with no understanding of how the internet or webpages work (or are supposed to work) and can't keep up with the assigned reading, you're gonna have a bad time no matter how passionate you might be. Go look at this and do it.

Grouchio posted:

Unfortunately the webpage it goes to is not only private, but happens to be on a thumb drive that I probably left on campus (the professor has it probably).

If you mean that the HTML on your C drive links to a thumb drive, I don't even... How do you think the thumb drive is going to get the same drive letter on his PC and the links won't be totally broken?

Don't use file:///. Host your stuff online somewhere. There are free web hosts. You can even dump it to github.

Learn how to use git (or some other source control, but github is so stupid easy for new people there's no reason not to use it).

Put your stuff in source control.

evol262
Nov 30, 2010
#!/usr/bin/perl

Pudgygiant posted:

I really want to know how old Ian is now. I know he said college but I'd put money on a "continuing education" situation. Kids these days all know basic web design from the womb, it seems like.

Kids these days aren't any better than they were in "your" days. Probably worse, because we can reasonably expect Ian has always had broadband and grew up on Windows XP.

evol262
Nov 30, 2010
#!/usr/bin/perl

Pudgygiant posted:

Nah it was just a "drat kids get off my lawn" rant because I work with people significantly younger than me (and I'm only 28). If anything I agree with you, they're willing to work for less which makes it harder for people like you and me to get things like a raise or house or basic benefits.
They're willing to work for what they can expect at their skill and experience level. If you're competing with them and expecting more than the market rate, that's on you.

Pudgygiant posted:

The average age of Facebook employees is 26. On average just by starting a grad program you'd essentially be aging yourself out of startup culture. I'm not railing against age discrimination by any means, just saying that whether it's true or not the stigma is kids these days ARE better at it.

I'll take absurd over generalization for $500.

Facebook isn't a startup anymore. But picking the average age of any startup employee and saying "kids are better" is inane. Go back in time and pick MS or Apple or any other company in their infancy. Startups are a young person's game and always have been.

Saying "the average age of Facebook employees is 26, young kids ARE better, QED" doesn't make any sense without comparing to industry demographics (and while FB has smart people, it's not a reasonable descriptor for the company was a whole, or startups in general).

As far as I can tell, the people who really think growing up with computers somehow makes you better at it are the media. People in non-IT fields probably have a leg up from familiarity, but that familiarity is much farther away from IT work than it used to be

evol262
Nov 30, 2010
#!/usr/bin/perl

Grouchio posted:

Apparently this course is a pre-requisite for a massive 4-language IT class crucial for IT majors. Which is why it's so very rigorous. I have two weeks to do this next assignment on forms.

I will certainly be talking with my advisor about this. And I may withdraw.

You should be talking to your professor during office hours to find out why you think it's so difficult. It's his job to teach you and help you through this stuff (within reason). Make use of it.

What is an "IT major"? Is that CS? MIS? CIS? CE?

Go look at w3schools.

Bluntly, nothing you've posted is rigorous. It's the kind of stuff you would have found in a "teach yourself HTML in 24 hours" book in 2003 (it probably still is in those books), because you can teach yourself how forms and postdata work in 45 minutes with reasonable instruction and a little aptitude.

evol262
Nov 30, 2010
#!/usr/bin/perl

owDAWG posted:

I went from a company where I was closer to the median age to one where I was the youngest. The general theme I see is the technology employed by the individuals. The younger crowd when entering the market are using technology of their generation (which is more cheaper/efficient). While older individuals get employed by more established companies with older technology (less efficient/expensive but more established business practices).

For instance younger generation companies/individuals will use Linux, Microsoft, MySQL, Microsoft SQL, ASP.NET, and Python. Older generation companies/individuals will use VB, Oracle, AS400, and Unisys. There is also the fact with a tougher economy new graduates will wind up with these younger companies where they will make less money and work longer hours since they are putting off raising a family longer these days.

Hi, newer tech isn't necessarily cheaper or more efficient. There's something to be said for a well-optimized, totally debugged codebase even if it's Fortran. Newer == better is incredibly fallacious.

Sure, LinkedIn's Rails->node rewrite made it faster, but how many thousands of man hours were expended to redo a 3 year old codebase? Is this somehow more efficient than the Perl, PHP, or J2EE Top100 sites which are humming along?

Before you assert that these are newer and more efficient, remember that VB and Oracle were once newer and more efficient.

If it's not broken...

evol262
Nov 30, 2010
#!/usr/bin/perl

lampey posted:

I have the i3 version of this server for an media server. The Xeon supports vt-d so you can pass through something like a pci-e raid card to a vm, but they both support vt-x for things like nested vms. The IPMI is not fully supported on the i3, but I hear Lenovo's version of it is good for the Xeons. It is very quiet, has enough hard drive bays for my uses, and the ECC ram is a bonus. I tested ESXI 5.1 on it before, but I will test the nested vms with just the i3 tonight.

You need VT-x (or SVM) for hardware accelerated virt period, not nested. Nested is up to driver support (KVM does it, hyper-v doesn't, vmkernel does but can also fake it with binary translation).

VT-x is the same across all Intel dies of the same generation. If it's in the list of flags, doesn't matter if it's Xeon or i3.

evol262
Nov 30, 2010
#!/usr/bin/perl

dogstile posted:

Cool! Except these people were

A: Doing the same job I was two weeks ago.
B: Asking me how to do their job.
C: Literally trying to give me their new job responsibilities when they got stuck

Don't treat me like i'm a complete bellend dude. I understand that after a year I might not know how the latest "super cool feature" of excel works either. I wouldn't be complaining if this was the case.

E: I should clarify, they're asking me how to do the job they've been promoted to, not giving me poo poo I deal with anyway. I don't care if they give me stuff thats under my job description because hey, that's what I deal with.

I'd still be careful with the attitude.

They do have at least one skills you don't: politicking. And it's an important one. Being "better" is rarely what gets you promoted.

evol262
Nov 30, 2010
#!/usr/bin/perl

dogstile posted:

Where are you guys getting the idea that i'm acting like some prick with an attitude at work? I'm happy, helpful and I always have a smile. I even remember little details about peoples lives and bring them up when relevant.

This thread right here? Its my only bitching place, I made a minor error last year and while it didn't really sour any moods, i've been careful since.

Am I bitter that someone else is getting promoted to team lead over me? gently caress yes I am, I wanted that, it came with benefits and people tend to come to me if they need a hand anyway. Am I going to act like a child at work? gently caress no. Not worth it.

To be clear, I have no idea how you're acting at work, and I'm not trying to imply anything about your attitude there.

The attitude I was referring to was having a chip on your shoulder or feeling like you got unfairly passed over for less competent people just because they're [older|younger|whiter|blacker|snakepeople]. If you have the skills to get the position, you can leave your place and get it at another company. Try to figure out why they got promoted and you didn't (it's almost certainly not just because they're older), but "I deserved it and they only got it because of some inherent trait and now they're dumping stuff on me" is not a good attitude to have.

evol262
Nov 30, 2010
#!/usr/bin/perl

Nintendo Kid posted:

Really though, isn't VI part of the POSIX specs or something?

It's part of the Single UNIX Spec, which mattered a little more.

It's also important to remember that vi was designed for efficiency and responsiveness on incredibly slow connections. Modal editing lets you press as few keys as possible to do as much as possible.

psydude posted:

As someone who isn't a *nix admin, but rather a person who just so happens to use *nix, these are all acceptable and understandable answers. With that being said, I'm trying to convince my boss to grow a neckbeard because he says "I just prefer using the CLI" at least twice a day, even when using the UI is actually faster and easier.

I don't have a neckbeard. But once you're familiar with it, the CLI is much, much faster and easier.

evol262
Nov 30, 2010
#!/usr/bin/perl

Sheep posted:

Seconding this. I have a friend doing some sort of European IT course thing and some of his required classes are beyond useless - designing poo poo with logic gates, reinvent-the-wheel each week with Python, etc. A lot of it can just be finding a professor that isn't a massive shitheel and will actually impart useful knowledge that you can use in your future career instead of "write a program to find which number in a list has the most factors while using only this incredibly restricted subset of functions in the language"-jerkoff assignments.
The things you've named are signs of good CS programs, not bad ones.

A CS, EE, or CE program isn't vocational training. Learn .NET somewhere else. The point of using a subset of a full-featured, simple language (like Python or Java or scheme) is that you can focus on how the algorithms work instead of abusing the namespaces and standard library. Knowing how to somearray.sort() doesn't help you if you need to write a quicksort someday, or walk a b-tree, or use C interop. It also helps give students a feel for what is and isn't efficient code.

Similarly, you can't really understand how computers work without knowing how logic gates work (or that the CPU is a giant truth table). Like it or not, CS involves knowing Turing machines and other theoretical stuff that may not be professionally applicable. It's a science.

Your friend is going to a good school.

Sheep posted:

I'd definitely put "working knowledge of Linux" on your resume - you don't need to be a pro, but pointing out that you have that knowledge is never a bad thing.
Heads up: if you're not a pro, it doesn't belong. Including Linux. Because if you're not a "pro", you probably don't have "working knowledge". It's possible, but very unlikely. It's not 2004. I can find people with professional Linux experience pretty easily.

evol262
Nov 30, 2010
#!/usr/bin/perl

TerryLennox posted:

I know the basics of SQL and Sybase (I can administer DBs, run queries, program jobs, backup and restore DBs, run performance stored procedures). How should I phrase this in a CV? I don't want to put my foot in my mouth by claiming full DBA experience but I would like to come off from this assignment looking better than query monkey.
Say you know SQL, because that's what you've described.

evol262
Nov 30, 2010
#!/usr/bin/perl

Tab8715 posted:

If I'm somewhat proficient at XYZ, how would you prefer it be outlined in a resume?

My general take is "list projects and accomplishments, maybe duties, never skills", but I'm lazy. If a recruiter or employer can't infer my skills from my duties/accomplishments, I probably don't want to work there anyway.

evol262
Nov 30, 2010
#!/usr/bin/perl

Sickening posted:

This is terrible advice and you should never give this out again.

The whole point of a resume is to sell yourself to employers. It should be for all experience and training that is relevant to the type of job you are applying for. If you leave out everything except you are a "pro" in you are most likely selling yourself short by a lot and you can believe the other people in the resume pile aren't. This is especially critical for people early in their careers.

Linux is odd here. There's a tendency for shade-tree admins who've never done anything more than follow howtos on the Ubuntu forums to say they have a "working knowledge" of Linux, and I've interviewed so many of them that I'm simply skeptical. There's an assumption that Linux is so obscure that knowing anything at all about it puts you above the competition. That used to be true.

Using Linux at home for basic stuff is neither experience nor training.

It's common to encounter people with "Linux" on their resume who cannot use an editor on the command line, do not understand how permissions work, are at a complete loss for what logs to look at for basic troubleshooting, etc.

If you can't pass an LPI sample test, it has no business being there. If you can, go ahead and put it on.

Yes, you're selling yourself and all that, but you should believe that you may get asked about it. If you have to question whether you should be putting it on your resume, how well will questions go?

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evol262
Nov 30, 2010
#!/usr/bin/perl

Japanese Dating Sim posted:

Presumably, there would be an initial question about Linux ("I see here you have some experience with Linux..." etc.) where he would properly and honestly summarize his experience levels with Linux, which would forego the more in-depth questions. If someone's rattling off complex Linux troubleshooting questions for a tier-1 support position, they're more in the wrong, imo.
The problem with "I see you have some experience with Linux..." isn't that they can't do complex troubleshooting. It's that they don't know how to do basic troubleshooting. I'm happy to interview candidates who are honest about their experience level with Linux, and I'm not trying to discourage people from being honest about it. I'm trying to get across what the idea of "working knowledge" may be, even for an entry level position.

Japanese Dating Sim posted:

I just think your definition of "working knowledge" varies from most people's. I'd say that I have a "working knowledge" of MS Office, but I'm not going to be able to throw together a complex Excel sheet with pivotcharts off the top off my head.
Using a command-line editor, understanding permissions, knowing how to read man pages, and where to find basic logs is basic working knowledge. I'm not expecting complex.

Japanese Dating Sim posted:

I mean, you could split the difference and have something like - "Basic Linux Experience (Installation, Configuration, Day-to-day Use)" - but for me, that's my interpretation of "working knowledge."

Really, nobody cares about installation. It's something you do once (or with automation as a non-entry level worker) and forget about it. Configuration is 99% of Linux, so I wouldn't put that ton either (it's basically configured out of the box except for whatever's running on it).

Fiendish Dr. Wu posted:

I didn't have any Linux on my resume, but during the group interview when asked by the neckbeard I casually talked about playing around with different distros on home pc's, and having a laptop running Mint. Nothing major, but it made for good conversation about how I have always been interested in it but haven't used it in any job atmosphere (always been windows environments). Well, I got the job and he pretty much took me as his padawan. I was sad to see him leave, but I now feel like I can put Linux on my resume :unsmith:

I guess it's better to underpromise and overdeliver rather than overpromising and failing.

edit: however, I probably wouldn't put Linux directly on my resume. I'm not trying to be a Linux admin, but I can use it. It's a canvas. I want to focus on the applications that I installed and configured on Linux, to Bob Morales's point.

I think this is a much better approach. Not the "wouldn't put Linux directly on your resume" part (do so if you have the skills), but talking about skills in which you have a low skill level but interest in during interviews.

Mostly, don't misrepresent, but I think the difference between "I've used Linux as a hobbyist" and "basic Linux skills" is larger than many people realize, and telling me you have "basic Linux skills" is going to make me ask a bunch of questions you'll bomb or assume you have knowledge you don't, then you'll feel like you took a test and I'll feel like you lied to me.

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