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Dark Helmut
Jul 24, 2004

All growns up


Seems like a fairly chaotic place to work, I would really be looking in the background regardless.

I will say that with what I understand about your background I would be careful about titling myself "Enterprise Architect". So with that said, as long as you are keeping your eyes open, soak up as much experience as you can and hope for the best. Get your boss and whoever else you can on your side. Find discreet ways to let the right people know you're kicking rear end. Play the game!



I also like the way the thread was going, minus the occasional alcohol-fueled dips into E/N territory.

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Dark Helmut
Jul 24, 2004

All growns up


In general, agency recruiters get paid a percentage of your first year's salary, so it's in our best interest to get you as much as we can. If I am talking you down, it's because I know other candidates are more qualified at that level or something along those lines.

Dark Helmut
Jul 24, 2004

All growns up


Bob Morales posted:

Isn't it more like a realtor, where they'd rather sell the house and get the commission instead of risking it for an extra thousand bucks or two?

My job is to represent you and get you the best chance to get the job, using my knowledge of the market conditions and other candidates (like a realtor). So sometimes it boils down to having that honest conversation - Look Bob, I can submit you at 90K, but you're going against Joe who is also at 90K and has 3 more years exp and a CCNP whereas you only have a CCNA, so why don't we go in at $85K?

If I'm talking you down in salary, it's for a reason and I'm going to be clear about it. But in our first face to face interview we have already talked about your salary target/range. Which is again why I've harped on building relationships with a local recruiter or two that you trust. The good ones care about their reputation in the market and building business via referrals. It's in my best interest to get what you want, so you stay with my client - who in turn gives me more work and because you're happy you send me more of your friends/coworkers.

Dark Helmut
Jul 24, 2004

All growns up


A good tip-off is that they actually WANT to meet you first hand. I typically don't submit anyone to a client without meeting them in person first.

Dark Helmut
Jul 24, 2004

All growns up


Inspector_666 posted:

Question for you, Dark, and sorry if this comes off as rude, but what do you think the role o a good recruiter is?

I've been dealing with a firm that has gotten me two interviews, but it seems like literally all they've done is scheduled interviews for me. When I show up at these places I still have to fill out an application as if I had just walked in off the street, and they haven't given me any insider info.

I've always thought that a good recruiter (even external) is supposed to help you get in the door, whereas the ones that have been getting in touch with me seem to simply be standing in front of the door and just adding another layer of people I have to hand my resume to.

I think it depends on the type of recruiting you're talking about, but speaking for what I GET PAID to do (contingency recruiting for an agency), my job is to know anything and everything about the market, meet as many technology people as I can, and find the best people for my clients.

WHAT I LIKE to do, in addition to making money like everyone else, is to help people take the next step in their careers. Coming from an IT background, there were multiple points in my career where a good recruiter or a benevolent boss helped me make a leap, so I try and do that for whoever I can.

I've got 40-50 jobs to fill at any given point so my goal is to find good candidates for as many of them as I can, and shepherd them through the process and be the one recruiter of many who creates a good situation for both client and candidate.

I totally get where you guys get pissed off at recruiters, either because you're:
A) a highly specialized and talented individual who gets blown up constantly by recruiters across the country
or
B) an industry newbie that gets submitted to one job and then forgotten about because there are 1000 others in the market with the same skill

Why I take an interest in this particular subforum is because I want to learn what the biggest complaints are about recruiters/agencies and also to let people know that there are good recruiters out there and how to leverage their knowledge of the market to help you in both the short and long term. Plus I'm a geek at heart anyway and I like the tech talk anyway. I'm hosting a Drupal user group at my office tonight and looking forward to drinking beer and nerding out.

Dark Helmut
Jul 24, 2004

All growns up


I'm 39 and I just got 3 of my coworkers by IMing them that I broke my hip and I wasn't going to be able to walk after surgery. Then I sent them the xray picture of a hip, with a really large xray phallus hanging down next it. Basically I tricked them into looking at a dick.

News flash: Penis/poo/fart humor never ever gets old.

Dark Helmut
Jul 24, 2004

All growns up


Dick Trauma posted:

Positive Throckmorton Sign?

I had to google that, but indeed it was a positive sign.

Dark Helmut
Jul 24, 2004

All growns up


The hardest person for me to place is an IT infrastructure manager. Those roles are often filled internally by someone who moves into a role, so when these people get fired often they are up poo poo creek.

Alternatively, there are tons of 40-55ish hands-on infrastructure people.

Keep your tech skills sharp, and you will likely never be jobless.

Dark Helmut
Jul 24, 2004

All growns up


Tab8715 posted:


Midrange talk aside, I got a quick resume question. I've almost been in IT almost a decade, should I put every IT job I've ever had or just the last three? I can't fit everything on one-page anymore

Unlike most think, a resume doesn't have to be a journal of everything you've ever done. Look at it as the "what's going to get me my next job" and in doing so, feel free to go to 2-4 pages, but assume that no one is going to look past the first page. Make that your heavy hitter and ensure that all the skills you want to utilize in your next job are well-articulated on that first page.

Also, skip the objective, no one wants to read about what YOU want, they care about who you are and what you bring to the table. A good summary followed by your most recent experience is ideal. If you have some really good certs, consider putting them at the top right next to your name. ex. Dark Helmut, PMP, CCNP

Definitely have a skills section, which doubles as a keyword repository so us recruiters can find it.

That's the short version of my resume 101...

Dark Helmut
Jul 24, 2004

All growns up


Misogynist posted:

Whether present on the paper or not, an objective is always implied to be "to get the job I am currently applying for."

Exactly, it's one of those things that isn't going to help you, and if targeted wrong can hurt you.

Dark Helmut
Jul 24, 2004

All growns up


^^^ best custom title ever ^^^ (DAF)

Tab8715 posted:

Next question, when they ask about expected salary should I give a number? My first thought is to say something along the lines of "negotiable but my target is X."

Note, this is pre-interview.

Assuming this is with an end client, I think it depends on your situation. Contrary to the typical hardcore stance of this thread, sometimes you just NEED a job and don't want to risk a good one by going overboard playing salary hardball.

There are a million different variables that go into this and there is no one answer that fits every situation. Knowing nothing else, I might look at what other companies in your market pay for similar roles and start the answer that way. "In looking at the market, I've noticed that this type of position typically pays around x. I don't want a number to stand in the way of a great opportunity, so I'm flexible to an extent, but looking to be compensated fairly."

Dark Helmut
Jul 24, 2004

All growns up


Fiendish Dr. Wu posted:

I'm curious. As a recruiter, does it bother you when people talk this way? Are you ever thinking "yeah okay " as if they're assuming you're just going to try to lowball them and haven't done their research?

I mean, I'm sure you guys know the low and high end of the spectrum, probably even more exact that we can gather from glassdoor or whatever. I would almost feel like the guy who watched one episode of Cosmos and is now going to an astronomy convention telling them all that I know more than they do. Am I just totally wrong here?

There is just no substitute for a good, honest conversation about why you are looking to leave (or why you left/don't have a job) and what it's going to take to put you into a new opportunity. It does me no good to place you in a role only to have you leave in 3 months when someone offers you a couple thousand more.

Honestly the people that play ultra-hardball with me are few and far between, maybe 1 out of 100. Mostly because I recruit locally for the most part, but also because I start every conversation by expressing an interest in "helping you with your search" rather than the stereotypical "I have a Network Engineer role I'm trying to fill with xyz company and I want to send them your resume"...

I don't want to bore you all with recruiter talk, but I do think it's important for you all to tell the difference between good recruiters and the mercenaries out there.

Dark Helmut
Jul 24, 2004

All growns up


Moey posted:

What area are you located in, if you don't mind sharing?

Central VA, and although I work with a medium-sized agency with a national footprint, 90% of my business is local. Shoot me a PM if you like.

Dark Helmut
Jul 24, 2004

All growns up


Fiendish Dr. Wu posted:

You're right, it's an assumption I'm making based on his 12+ years experience and qualifications / position at this company. I guess that's what I'm asking for input on - how to go about this because I'm definitely not trying to get into any trouble when it comes down to it.

Everyone cuts their own deal in life, in work, and other stuff that's E/N thread-worthy. In this situation, you don't have 12 years of experience, even though you have this guy's job/title. So it stands to reason that even if you do the job as well as he did, in most companies you aren't just automatically going to step into his pay grade.

You justify your salary not only with skill and experience, but with loyalty/longevity of service to the company as well. So, with that said, I would take the same approach I recommended earlier. Find out what desktop architects make in your area, as opposed to focusing on what this guy was making. Have all your bullet points ready to go - what you do well, how you have stepped in and owned the role, and anything else that is in your favor, and set up a conversation. If you are at $50K and the average desktop arch is getting paid $80K, then I'd be happy somewhere in the middle there.

Annnnd I just realized you are on contract, which throws another wrinkle into the mix. If your recruiter is any good and has the latitude to do so, they have already started another conversation with the client since you are holding a much more senior role now. It's unlikely they are going to be able to pay you more unless the client pays them more. I had a project manager take on a more senior program manager role here and even though he deserved it, I was unable to pay him any more. But given the drastic title change for you (architect I believe?), I can't imagine the client would/could refuse a conversation about that.

Dark Helmut
Jul 24, 2004

All growns up


Fiendish Dr. Wu posted:

Thanks for this. Yes, architect is correct. I had a meeting last week with my agency, during which time I explained the new role (with no mention of the other guys salary), and I know they have yet to talk with my boss.

I'm really not too worried as it sounds like I'm in a good position (however I'm still updating my resume just in case).

I've also heard it said that benefits can amount to around 30% of your salary. Is that a fair estimate?

I think you would make yourself nuts trying to quantify/generalize it like that. Instead, I would just look at the big ones - vacation, health care cost, stock options, and maybe the 401K match if they have it. My company chips in like $2400/yr for my HSA, so I would include that for example.

Dark Helmut
Jul 24, 2004

All growns up


Tab8715 posted:

Dark Helmut, how much weight do you put into references?

From my perspective, references are pretty key. A good reference or two legitimizes a candidate and I will always include a quote from one if I can when I submit to a client. The most recent supervisor is typically the best reference, and it's always concerning when that is not one that's provided. In my eyes, references (so you can keep track of where they land) are one of the biggest reasons you should have a LinkedIn account.

So on your end, do your best not to burn bridges and even keep up with your old bosses. Have lunch with them or at least exchange emails from time to time if they are cool with that. If they were dicks, just keep it cordial.

With that being said, after 12 years of IT support I didn't have any references and I landed my recruiter job with the help of 2 of my best friends who I had worked alongside in the past and a guy that I worked for in a startup for a bit. Total BS references, but they all got called and it ended up working. So just have someone, anyone who will speak to your aptitude.

Dark Helmut
Jul 24, 2004

All growns up


Re: the job hopping thing, both sides have good points and I think the answer is somewhere in the middle.

Every company is different and views this in a different way. Small/medium typically places way more weight on loyalty, whereas bigger corps typically don't give two shits, but that's a generalization. If your work history is all over the place, all short contracts, employment gaps, etc, the first question in a hiring manager's mind is always going to be "why didn't anyone hire this guy?"

I tell my candidates that in the IT world I would try and make sure I'm looking at least every 3-5 years. Unless you absolutely love your job and have great security, there is no substitute for working in diverse technical environments. It gives you perspective and obviously exposure to a wider variety of tools/tech. I would just avoid becoming that serial job hopper, because you will likely end up losing a great opportunity at some point because it's apparent to anyone reading your resume that you will leave for the next person to offer you $5K more.

We have a big financial institution in town here and whenever they do layoffs, I inevitably end up with people who have been there 12-15 years and are used to their cushy salary and benefits, but they have been totally silo'd so they aren't marketable and have unreasonable salary expectations. I usually have to wait those people out. They had a good run, sure, but I'd always rather be able to hit the ground running and have a marketable skill set.

Dark Helmut
Jul 24, 2004

All growns up


Happy Hour start early today?


vvvvvvvvvvv UNICORN ALERT vvvvvvvvvvv

Dark Helmut fucked around with this message at 20:08 on Aug 5, 2014

Dark Helmut
Jul 24, 2004

All growns up


Dilbert As gently caress posted:

IMO, and this is someone from VA talking. Move to NoVA, or Northern Richmond; Do not go into Hampton Roads.

It's like the market is growing everywhere but Eastern NC and Eastern(and som western) VA. I think VA aside from NoVA and satillite companies in northern Richmond/Fredricksberg this state is really going stale, this state relies heavily on the military input to make it's ends meat and I feel it has no way to organically make money if not for the government.

That's why I have been taking $200 out a week into a savings account for a good while, and am buying a house in Charlotte when I hit 26, VA SUCKS.

I have more problems with the inaccuracies and sweeping generalizations with this post than I have the energy to address.

Dark Helmut
Jul 24, 2004

All growns up


tadashi posted:

I may have a chance at an interview for a technical position with a startup soon where the culture appears to be "hip nerd company". I've only ever worked in corporate IT so I've only ever worn suits to my interviews. When people interview for these kinds of companies, what the hell do you wear to the interview?

You can't un-do the first impression, so act carefully. Here in somewhat conservative VA, I would give the advice that no matter what you should always wear a suit, even in hipster nerd territory. But I concede that maybe in an area where hipster nerds hold a bigger market share, your mileage may vary.

If you came in through a recruiter, I would have them find out for you. Or just call the company and see if the admin or whoever answers will clue you in. In my mind it's dangerous to go below suit level, but if you do just make sure you are still dressed to impress.

Dark Helmut
Jul 24, 2004

All growns up


DrAlexanderTobacco posted:

Do they have a website with a "meet the team" section? What are those team members wearing? Wear that.

NO.



You're there to get a job. To impress and give the impression that you want to earn a spot with their team. Not to pretend you're already one of them.

Interviewing isn't a showcase of how cool you are. It's about showing how competent and professional you are.

Like I said, I admit that not all companies are created equal, but IMHO you really can't go wrong with a nice high quality (~$300-500) suit.

I'll get off my soapbox now.

E: Sorry for the rant, I've just seen soooo many people blow interviews by dressing poorly. Conversely, I've NEVER seen anyone lose an interview for dressing too nicely.

E2: http://www.artofmanliness.com/2010/...our-wardrobe-2/

vvvvv If I'm in on a Saturday (which I never am) or after hours, you can bet that I have a beer in my hand vvvvvv

Dark Helmut fucked around with this message at 04:38 on Aug 8, 2014

Dark Helmut
Jul 24, 2004

All growns up


Toyota 4runner crew represent. Don't haul servers but if I had to I could take them up a mountain.

Dark Helmut
Jul 24, 2004

All growns up


I'm on vacation and away from steady internet or I'd elaborate but I can't emphasize enough how important it is to limit negativity in regards to former employers. Definitely seen it cost people jobs before. Spin it quickly if you have to talk about it at all.

Dark Helmut
Jul 24, 2004

All growns up


Sepist posted:

Are companies in DC area willing to help attain a security clearance for the right candidate? I am aiming for pre-sales in the DC area for my next move but I don't want to screw myself over by not having the clearance already before applying in the area.

In my experience, yes, but it's rather limited. I don't think many people pay for a clearance themselves so I think most companies are used to footing the bill for this.

Dark Helmut
Jul 24, 2004

All growns up


Drink for the following terms:

Synergy
Paradigm shift
Low hanging fruit
Going forward
Outside the box
Let's pull up offline
It is what it is

My list is probably a bit dated, feel free to add your own.

Dark Helmut
Jul 24, 2004

All growns up


Tab8715 posted:

That's really good, mind if I barrow it?

Your egregious misspelling possessed me to GIS some strange wheel barrow pics and let me say I'm too disturbed to post what I found.

three posted:

Unrelated to the current topic, but I found out I'm having a baby girl, and it makes me really sad to know that there's no way I'd encourage her to go into IT due to the misogynistic weirdos it attracts.



Dude, this isn't IT's fault. You will feel the same way about your little girl doing anything that anyone you know does. Ever.

For example, I will be horrified if my girl:
Works in IT
Works in staffing
Works in a restaurant
Plays ice hockey

The list goes on.

But congrats! Mine's 9 and I'm about 3-4 years from a heart attack.

Dark Helmut fucked around with this message at 20:30 on Aug 18, 2014

Dark Helmut
Jul 24, 2004

All growns up


psydude posted:

YOTJ. Just accepted an offer to become a Sr. Security Engineer. $12k salary increase, $52/mo PPO, 3 weeks of paid vacation each year, and $6250/yr in tuition reimbursement.

Grats dude!!

Dark Helmut
Jul 24, 2004

All growns up


Sepist posted:

Eh I must've gotten lucky in the brokerage I was at. It's not going to pan out anyway, I talked to the guy and despite my experience and knowledge, they want someone with more trading floor experience which I think just translates into they want someone who is used to being directly yelled at by brokers 8 hours a day

I can't think of a time when your avatar would be more appropriate than while being yelled at by a broker.

Dark Helmut
Jul 24, 2004

All growns up


The conspicuous lack of "x years of experience required" definitely seems to point to them looking for people right out of school (or close) or people in transition that might be a bit more desperate. If they are saying $35-40, that's low for pretty much any civilized market. Not sure of your experience level, but if you are in the earlier stages of your career it might be a good opp.

If you're more seasoned and have a much higher number, maybe you can get close to where you need by interviewing well.

Dark Helmut
Jul 24, 2004

All growns up


Dick Trauma posted:

Turned into an all nighter due to weirdness with the distributed voicemail servers. Since my day started yesterday around 0430 I think I'll be leaving early today before my brain turns completely to mush.

I'm sure I'm not the first to have commented on this, but your job and your user name appear to cause similar amounts of pain/discomfort.

Dark Helmut
Jul 24, 2004

All growns up


You also seem a little young to be living in a shack with 4 dudes that don't speak your language. Why? Ignore the Chinese part, but a young kid living anywhere with a bunch of people that don't speak his language is probably going to get taken advantage of in some way, shape, or form.

Dark Helmut
Jul 24, 2004

All growns up


Methanar posted:

Almost certainly but my alternatives sucked. The college has no onsite living so you need to go out and find a roommate or apartment on your own. I also could have waited a year staying at home doing manual labor at my 11.5/hr job that I wasn't very good at http://imgur.com/a/ng1Na

Haha, well good for you. As others have stated, you seem to have a good head on your shoulders and be more driven than the alcohol and pussy-driven guy I was 20 years ago. Or today for that matter...

Dark Helmut
Jul 24, 2004

All growns up


Came in to see 70 posts and expected nothing short of a full-scale DAF meltdown.

Came away thinking "Zero, if you accept a counter-offer from these assholes, I will cut you."

Dark Helmut
Jul 24, 2004

All growns up


Tech question. I've been out of the game for the last few years but one of my coworkers went and got himself spyware'd and it's easier for me to fix it than ship it off to corporate. What are the go-to tools these days? "Back in my day" I used Ad-aware, Spybot, HijackThis, etc.

Feel free to PM me or refer me to a different thread so I don't jack this one up.

Dark Helmut
Jul 24, 2004

All growns up


Inspector_666 posted:

Malwarebytes (even though they changed the UI to look like the poo poo you're trying to get rid of), ComboFix, and then there are a bevy of specialized utilities that will kill/fix specific infections.

Combofix, that's the one I couldn't remember. The one I was scared to use on people's PCs at first til I realized it was the poo poo... Thanks!

Dark Helmut
Jul 24, 2004

All growns up


psydude posted:

Relative to whom? I bought a whole goat in Afghanistan for $15.

Was it this goat? Cause hey, free shepherd protein.

Mildly NWS but only if you work in Nazi Germany.

http://prepperchimp.com/2014/08/03/...sex-with-goats/

Dark Helmut
Jul 24, 2004

All growns up


Drunk Orc posted:

So I was supposed to have a phone interview with the IS manager of a software company in town today for a desktop support tech position at 1:30 and it is now nearly 2:15 with no call yet. What's the proper way to handle this situation?

If you have a recruiter, I would have called him/her at 5-10 min after. Otherwise, I would have called the company about 1:45.

Edit: ok, email ASAP!

Bonus word track:

Hi Mr. Lateguy,

I believe we had a call scheduled for 1:30 today and I have not received a call as of yet. I wanted to make sure I had not missed your call or given you the incorrect number. If you can talk today, I am available until xx:xx at [phone number]. If not, I am happy to reschedule at your convenience.

Regards,

Or something like this that shows humility and that you're willing to accept some responsibility even if it wasn't your fault.

Dark Helmut fucked around with this message at 18:45 on Sep 5, 2014

Dark Helmut
Jul 24, 2004

All growns up


TWBalls posted:

This is exactly the reason I want one. That and (if it's possible) loading it up with music so that I can work out and listen to music without having my big-rear end phone with me.

I'm on Android, so if I were to get one, it'd likely be a Samsung. I haven't really researched them all that much, so I don't know if they all require them to have a phone nearby or not. It's one of those "It'd be nice to have, but I'm not all that worried about it" type of things.

I'm old enough to remember the last time a "smart" watch tried to gain market share...

Dark Helmut
Jul 24, 2004

All growns up


You really need your own emoticon.

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Dark Helmut
Jul 24, 2004

All growns up


Sepist posted:

Umm why would you agree to do that, family or not. They are a business, it's their job to find their hiring problems using their resources, not yours (which shouldn't be free btw). HR resources have the ability to get pay baselines from companies that charge to do the exact thing you're going to do for free.

Change the location from their office to a bar over happy hour/a nice dinner and tossing them a few suggestions becomes more palatable.

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