Register a SA Forums Account here!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
  • Locked thread
NieR Occomata
Jan 18, 2009

Glory to Mankind.

:siren: READ THIS POST before EVEN THINKING about posting in this thread. :siren:

Doctor Who loving sucks!

And I (and Oxxidation) are gonna loving watch this lovely, lovely show and review it. All of it (hopefully). Every single episode of the Doctor Who reboot, starting with the very first episode of the reboot with Christopher Eccleston, the Ninth Doctor, all the way to the current one, whatever the gently caress that is.

But I guess I should rewind a bit, and explain...

The Beginning

So, I've become somewhat (in)famous in TVIV for reviewing bad television, with my (now goldmined) Seasons 2 and 3 of Last Man Standing review thread and my currently running Season One of Last Man Standing review thread. In the near future (as in, within the next two months) I'm going to have to start a season 4 of Last Man Standing review thread. So, clearly, what I need are more projects, as the two assholes in charge of the TVIV Awards thread, Deadpool and DivisionPost, oh-so-cleverly decided to "prank" me by including as one of the questions a viewer poll for what show I should watch next.

This is when my good friend slash deviant rear end in a top hat, Oxxidation, decided to pipe in:

Oxxidation posted:

Doctor Who Doctor Who Doctor Who Doctor Who Doctor Who Doctor Who Doctor Who DOCTOR WHO DOCTOR WHO DOCTOR WHO

Now, knowing that Oxx would cast his Machiavellian Douchewizard spell on you jackasses and get Doctor Who, a show he has maliciously tried to force me to watch for the last, like, four fuckin' years I knew that the absolute best result for me would be reducing his victory to a pyrrhic one, so I posted:


Fine, force him to do it too then


Just to be clear, what this means is if, in the event that doctor who wins, oxxidation has to review every episode of doctor who in the review thread as frequently as I do


(Just to be clear, that's not my toxx- it's his. I can stop whenever I want to and am proceeding because it's funny, this mod challenge isn't binding in any way. However, Oxxidation has to review this show just as often as I do, or face a ban.)

We're such good friends, he and I.

Anyways, so here we are, the grand experiment of how long I can tolerate Doctor Who, a show I despise on literally every conceivable level, while reviewing every sure-to-be godawful episode of this wretched series. Oxxidation, the Gallant to my posting Goofus, will review every episode as well. Note: He's a massive Doctor Who fan and has seen the entire run of NuWho (ugh that loving word) up to like, I dunno, series 9 or something. Whatever. He's seen a lot, is what I mean.

I'll be posting my reviews first, and he'll be posting his reviews right after (within 24 hours). Our perspectives will be different; in addition to him being a much better writer (although at this point I think I'm a better reviewer) than I am, we'll be splitting the reviews to be similar to the "For Newbies" and "For Experts" split that Onion AV Club does for Game of Thrones, so expect my reviews to be more facile and reactionary than his more measured opinion. He'll also be contrasting each episode as part of the whole of the season while I'll be mainly dealing with my specific reactions to the episode in isolation. It should make an at least somewhat entertaining mix.

Note: I loving hate Doctor Who. It cannot be stressed how much I despise this show. I watched the first, like, four episodes of Eccleston's run like three years ago (at Oxx's insistence/deceit) and hated literally everything about it- the acting, the godawful special effects, every stupid-as-poo poo tired injoke, every single catchphrase, the terrible, terrible,. TERRIBLE plotting, the wretched, grade school dialog, the camera angles, the scene blocking...everything. I hated everything, and vowed never to watch it ever again. So it's with that caveat that I say: don't read my reviews if you expect anything more than a guy who absolutely despises this show watching it. I cannot stress this enough. I'm gonna give this show as fair of a shake I can, and I believe that I've proved that I can obtain at least some level of objectivity- see my LMS reviews- but just be aware of that going in.

In contrast, Oxxidation really does adore this show, so if you're looking for a more levelheaded review style go read his reviews instead. I'm nothing if not hyperbolic so just expect that going in.

Anyways I'll be trying to lay my festering hatred for this show aside and review each episode fairly, on the traditional A-B-C-D-F scale, no pluses or minuses. Oxxidation won't be because he doesn't really like rating stuff but I'm more than sure you'll get his feelings about each individual episode from his writeups.

Some Thread Rules:

  • Don't be a giant loving Dr. Who nerd in this thread. I don't care if you insult me, if you say I'm a giant stupid human being bitch for hating the show, but don't post longass tryhard careposts about how I "just don't get it" with a point-by-point refutation that reads like the manifesto of the Asperger's Killer. It's weird and pathetic and me and Oxxidation are gonna mock you for it. Post in this thread with the mentality "Doctor Who is loving stupid, don't treat it as anything besides the stupidest loving thing".
  • Don't post spoilers. I quite frankly don't care about if you spoil this show for me, because you can't possibly ruin my enjoyment of this show, but you'll ruin the genuineness of my reactions to specific events which will make for worse reviews which will make for a less entertaining thread. So, posting spoilers doesn't piss me off- that's like making poop dirty, in my mind- you'll just be making the thread worse, and that's lame. *Edit by Annakie -- this rule is now mod-enforced. Expect to be probated if you break it.

Anyways yeah, go crazy beyond that. If you like the show, call me a stupid idiot I don't care. This thread is supposed to be fun and, yes, fairly mocking, but again I welcome interesting discussion as long as it doesn't devolve into whatever the Doctor Who thread devolves into on a regular basis (or so I am told). Again, I don't read threads for bad shows. :smug:

How often will you update?

Once a week. Me an Oxx both have full time jobs, he has a commute in that too. We might do more but that's dependent on him so bug him if you want us to review more often.

Will this affect your LMS reviews plan?

It won't affect any part of season 4- I have to review that. It might affect the season 1 thread but shouldn't- just fair warning though.

Addendum, by Oxxidation:

Ain't I a stinker.

Let it be known that I confirm all points in Occupation's OP, including the :toxx:. Let it also be known that the threat of a ban holds no power over me, for long ago I defeated the Internet Reaper in a game of wits (his bones stained with Cheeto dust, his robe long unwashed) and lost my fear of death. This basically means that I will continue to do this until I am no longer able or until I stop finding it funny, regardless of consequences.

Although I, a grown-rear end man, have literally bounced up and down in my seat like a caffeinated grade-schooler at regular intervals while watching this show, I am not well-disposed towards its fans and like Occupation don't want any of the turbo-autist crap that goes on in the Who megathreads to carry on here. What I define as turbo-autist crap will be at once vague and perilously changeable. I doubt that any of those people will leave their ghetto anyway, but I'm still saying it to say it.

My reviews will follow Occ's within 24 hours of Occ posting, barring extraordinary circumstances. Since Occ's going to give the play-by-play of events, mine will be largely supplementary, covering my thoughts on the episode, why they do or don't work for me in the larger context of Who, and any side information I happen to have picked up during my time spent watching this thing. I do not like any of you, but I hope you enjoy it. And if you don't, then I'm sorry. I'm so sorry.

Review Archive: (Oxxidation reviews in bold)
101, "Rose" Oxx's Review
102, "The End of the World" Oxx's Review
103, "The Unquiet Dead" Oxx's Review
104, "Aliens of London" Oxx's Review
105, "World War Three" Oxx's Review
106, "Dalek" Oxx's Review
107, "The Long Game" Oxx's Review
108, "Father's Day" Oxx's Review
109, "The Empty Child" Oxx's Review
110, "The Doctor Dances" Oxx's Review
111, "Boom Town" Oxx's Review
112, "Bad Wolf" Oxx's Review
113, "The Parting of the Ways" Oxx's Review
200, "Born Again/The Christmas Invasion" Oxx's Review
201, "New Earth" Oxx's Review
202, "Tooth and Claw" Oxx's Review
203, "School Reunion" Oxx's Review
204, "The Girl in the Fireplace" Oxx's Review
205, "Rise of the Cybermen" Oxx's Review
206, "The Age of Steel" Oxx's Review
207, "The Idiot's Lantern" Oxx's Review
208, "The Impossible Planet" Oxx's Review
209, "The Satan Pit" Oxx's Review
210, "Love and Monsters" Oxx's Review Occupation and Oxxidation's Chatlog
211, "Fear Her" Oxx's Review
212, "Army of Ghosts" Oxx's Review
213, "Doomsday" Oxx's Review
300, "The Runaway Bride" Oxx's Review
301, "Smith and Jones" Oxx's Review
302, "The Shakespeare Code" Oxx's Review
303, "Gridlock" Oxx's Review
304, "Daleks in Manhattan" Oxx's Review
305, "Evolution of the Daleks" Oxx's Review Occupation and Oxxidation's Chatlog Excerpts
306, "The Lazarus Experiment" Oxx's Review
307, "42" Oxx's Review
308, "Human Nature" Oxx's Review
309, "The Family of Blood" Oxx's Review
310, "Blink" Oxx's Review
311, "Utopia" Oxx's Review
312, "The Sound of Drums" Oxx's Review
313, "Last of the Time Lords" Oxx's Review
"Time Crash"
400, "Voyage of the Damned" Oxx's Review
401, "Partners in Crime" Oxx's Review
402, "The Fires of Pompeii" Oxx's Review
403, "Planet of the Ood" Oxx's Review
404, "The Sontaran Stratagem" Oxx's Review
405, "The Poison Sky" Oxx's Review
406, "The Doctor's Daughter" Oxx's Review
407, "The Unicorn and the Wasp" Oxx's Review
408, "Silence in the Library" Oxx's Review
409, "Forest of the Dead" Oxx's Review
410, "Midnight" Oxx's Review
411, "Turn Left" Oxx's Review
412, "The Stolen Earth" Oxx's Review
413, "Journey's End" Oxx's Review
414, "The Next Doctor" Oxx's Review
415, "Planet of the Dead" Oxx's Review
416, "The Waters of Mars" Oxx's Review
417, "The End of Time, Part One" Oxx's Review
418, "The End of Time, Part Two" Oxx's Review
501, "The Eleventh Hour" Oxx's Review
502, "The Beast Below" Oxx's Review
503, "Victory of the Daleks" Oxx's Review
504, "The Time of Angels" Oxx's Review
505, "Flesh and Stone" Oxx's Review
506, "The Vampires of Venice" Oxx's Review
507, "Amy's Choice" Oxx's Review
508, "The Hungry Earth" Oxx's Review
509, "Cold Blood" Oxx's Review
510, "Vincent and the Doctor" Oxx's Review
511, "The Lodger" Oxx's Review
512, "The Pandorica Opens" Oxx's Review
513, "The Big Bang" Oxx's Review
600, "A Christmas Carol" Oxx's Review
601, "The Impossible Astronaut" Oxx's Review
602, "Day of the Moon" Oxx's Review
603, "The Curse of the Black Spot" Oxx's Review
604, "The Doctor's Wife" Oxx's Review
605, "The Rebel Flesh" Oxx's Review
606, "The Almost People Oxx's Review
607, "A Good Man Goes to War"
608, "Let's Kill Hitler"
609, "Night Terrors"
610, "The Girl Who Waited"
611, "The God Complex"
612, "Closing Time"
613, "The Wedding of River Song"
700, "The Doctor, The Widow, and the Wardrobe"
701, "Asylum of the Daleks"
702, "Dinosaurs on a Spaceship"
703, "A Town Called Mercy"
704, "The Power of Three"
705, "The Angels Take Manhattan"
706, "The Snowmen"
707, "The Bells of Saint John"
708, "The Rings of Akhaten"
709, "Cold War"
710, "Hide"
711, "Journey to the Centre of the TARDIS"
712, "The Crimson Horror"
713, "Nightmare in Silver"
714, "The Name of the Doctor"
715 Prequel, "The Night of the Doctor"
715, "The Day of the Doctor"
716, "Time of the Doctor"
801, "Deep Breath"
802, "Into the Dalek"
803, "Robot of Sherwood"
804, "Listen"
805, "Time Heist"
806, "The Caretaker"
807, "Kill the Moon"
808, "Mummy on the Orient Express"
809, "Flatline"
810, "In the Forest of the Night"
811, "Dark Water"
812, "Death in Heaven"
813, "Last Christmas"

Extra Stuff

Occupinion 1: Recommendations
Series 1 in Review
Series 2 in Review
Series 3 in Review
Series 4 and "Year of Specials" in Review
Series 5 in Review
Series 6 in Review
Series 7 in Review

NieR Occomata fucked around with this message at 17:20 on Sep 27, 2015


Jul 22, 2007
I am reserving this post for reasons unknown to everyone, INCLUDING MYSELF.

Thread rules, edited in by Annakie

* Episode titles from future episodes.
* Plot points from future episodes.
* Your general impressions of future episodes including whatever episode is the "next" episode to be reviewed.
* When characters might leave the show.
* When characters who seem to have left the show might return (ie like Mickey returning in Army of Ghosts. Good restraint on this example though guys.)
* Hints of or names of characters who will eventually turn up in the show or their arcs.
* Over-arcing themes that might hint at what's yet to come.
* Pointing out things that Toxxupation hasn't caught onto yet that might spoil future themes or plot points (Bad Wolf, Torchwood etc.)
* Even if he has caught onto them, telling him what to look out for. Let Oxxidation do this as he feels necessary in private.
* Anything, ANYTHING, ANYTHING, ANYTHING that gives away ANYTHING about what's going to happen in the future.
* Do not be clever. Do not try to do the :smug: hint hint wink wink nudge nudge thing.

In general, spoiler tags do not belong in this thread because if it needs spoiler tags it shouldn't be here at all.

:siren: Punishment list for spoilery posting. :siren:
First offense: 24 hour probation, IE, if I have to edit your post, at all.
Second offense: Three days probation and you're not allowed to post in the thread anymore.
If you post in the thread after that, it's a month probation.

Read over your post before you submit it and make sure you're not talking about the future at all. If you're new to this thread, you need to read the previous 10 pages before posting to get a feel for what not to post.

There are TWO OTHER Doctor Who threads in this very same subforum. If you're not sure if something is okay to post or not, if the thought even crosses your mind that there's a possibility it's not, quote the post and take it to the general Doctor Who thread.

Occ and Toxx are doing a great job putting a lot of effort into this thread and most of you are doing a good job with the discussion part. Please stop making us have to close it and edit things. It's really not that hard.

Banned from this thread

Somebody fucked around with this message at 01:55 on Jan 21, 2015

NieR Occomata
Jan 18, 2009

Glory to Mankind.

Doctor Who
Series 1, Episode 1

Generally speaking, I really, really don't like genre television, and this episode of Doctor Who, and the series in general, puts a fine point on why. There's just so much about the field of genre television, the easy narrative tropes and pitfalls emblematic to genre television as a whole, that Doctor Who engages in at every point that even if everything else in this episode were on point, I'd still really dislike it. As it stands, though- eesh.

The first shot of the very first episode of the Doctor Who reboot is of Rose (Billie Piper), laying in bed, looking drowsy and confused. This will be the first of many, many times throughout the episode. It's kind of Rose's thing, to be honest: to be caught completely and utterly off guard by an occurring plot event, and therefore look stunned and surprised by the events happening around her.

Eventually, though, she travels to her job at a generic fashion store, wherein she encounters the main antagonist of the episode- sentient mannequins. Yes, this is seriously the big, scary enemy throughout the pilot: Sentient. loving. Mannequins.

After a cheap-looking action sequence, Rose is saved, of course, at the last minute by the Doctor (Christopher Eccleston). He then proceeds to exposit the entire plot of the episode and of the show onto Rose, whose actress seems capable of two, and exactly two, reactions: being stunned, and being stunned but inquisitive.

Eventually this segues into a bit with her boyfriend Mickey (Noel Clarke) getting captured by a trash can (no, really), as Rose once again gets exposited on about the Doctor from some no-name guest actor whose literal sole purpose throughout the episode is to vomit the Doctor's backstory onto the episode and subsequently die. Seriously, that's it.

Anyways the Doctor has to do some nonsense with this sentient plastic lava that's able to control all plastic (still being 100% serious and not exaggerating) with psychic powers before eventually saving the day (with Rose's stalwart help in being able to swing on a chain like a vine) and then convincing Rose to travel with him throughout the universe in his phone booth spaceship.

It's all quite silly.

I hated nearly all of it.

My main complaint is the show's writing and characterization. This episode, "Rose", is essentially a two-person play- sure, there's a plot dump from aforementioned marginal guest actor, and there's some nonsense between Rose and her boyfriend, but the totality of the non- Doctor and Rose scenes throughout this 45 minute episode total, maybe, 10 minutes, and that's being generous. This episode is centered on the Doctor and Rose interacting with each other, and at the end of it the audience has absolutely zero sense of who these two main characters are.

It's kind of bewildering how the two stars of this show get no characterization, either via dialog or via action, beyond "smug prick" in the Doctor's case and "inquisitive idiot" in Rose's. This shouldn't be happening. The show should be placing these two characters, Rose and the Doctor, front and center throughout the episode, allowing the audience to form an emotional attachment and investment throughout and it doesn't. It doesn't even try to make us care about these characters as characters, and instead just has them both just do, well, things until the episode ends.

It's even worse in Rose's case because in the Doctor's case you can at least use the ostensible defense that the Doctor, being an alien who's died and been reborn a number of times (again, this and all my previous Doctor Who understanding is just my contextual knowledge of the show having been on the internet for the past decade), not something I ever actually wanted to know about specifically, so apologies if I get the specifics incorrect), means that by necessity he's a cipher. It's a lovely defense- we, the audience, should have an emotional connection to the characters in a work of fiction regardless -but it's at least justifiable. In Rose's case, she's idiot. Like there's a specific scene where, after her boyfriend gets kidnapped, the evil overlord plastic makes a copy of Mickey to "sneakily" persuade Rose into giving up information about the Doctor. A good idea, in theory- make a plastic spy -but the entire operation falls apart by how completely, utterly fake the Mickey copy looks and acts, down to the fact that it can't pronounce the word "pizza" correctly.

But it doesn't matter, because Rose falls for the entire charade hook, line, and sinker. The entire scene doesn't even really add anything to the plot -the Doctor shows up at the end of it, accomplishing the evil plastic's goal of tracking him down anyways -so all the scene adds to the episode is firmly establish how much of a moron Rose is. I mean, really, that's all I got out of the scene- Rose is an idiot who falls for the most obvious traps ever, despite being fully aware of the evil plastic's existence and capabilities.

The dialog of this episode is borderline criminal. It waffles between "exposition dump" and the cheesiest, most overly dramatic hammy lines ever committed to the page. Seriously, the line where in the middle of explaining who and what the Doctor was, where the marginally-important guest actor goes "[The Doctor] has one constant companion...DEATH." is loving laughable. It has no dramatic impact and sounds ludicrous even before whoever that actor was overdelivered the hell out of it.

This is my problem with genre television as a whole- the entire episode is in service of plot over character, either explaining the plot, explaining the backstory leading to the plot, or engaging the plot. Somehow all characterization fell by the wayside so you ended up with a bunch of people I don't care about doing a bunch of things I don't care about and telling me things I didn't care about about things that happened that I never cared about until stuff happens and okay, we're done.

And even this by-definition flawed version of storytelling could've been good, or at least salvageable, if the plot was decent, which it most emphatically is not. The big bad of this episode is evil plastic! Literally! It is such a stupid concept! Even this, though, even this utterly asinine plot could've been saved by decent VFX, but this episode and show has the worst visual effects I have ever seen on a television show. Everything looks greenscreened and obviously added in post, the Photoshop effects are goddamn tragic- the utter shittiness of the way they added in Christopher Eccleston's face into the JFK assassination photos border on offensive -nothing in this show's special effects work. Nothing.

Yet, even then, even despite literally everything in the episode being subpar at best, I still enjoyed parts of this episode. Christopher Eccleston is a superb actor, as his work on the infinitely superior series The Leftovers can prove, and at times I was enjoying his delivery of some of his lines despite the generally terrible quality of the writing. It's a real shame that he's stuck on this bad, bad show, because he's making the best of it and almost- almost -making it work.


Grade: D

Random Thoughts:
  • I counted three separate times that the Sonic Screwdriver instantly solved a problem in this episode alone, which is another issue I have with the show- when your main character has an item that can solve literally any issue, no narrative tension can be established because, well, why doesn't he just use that to solve everything?
  • Billie Piper doesn't seem like a very good actress.
  • I hate how the cinematography is centered on closeup shots of people's faces with quick cuts to whatever they're looking at or interacting with. It makes for confused, nausea-inducing filming. Just have some goddamn pans, Doctor Who.
  • Doctor: "Look, if I did forget some kid called Mickey- it's because I'm busy trying to save the life of every stupid ape blunderin' about on this planet! All right?"
  • Mom: "Um...I'm in my dressing gown." Doctor: "Yes, you are." Mom: "There's a strange man in my bedroom." Doctor: "Yes, there is." Mom: "Well, anything could happen..." Doctor (shaking head): "...No."

NieR Occomata fucked around with this message at 03:06 on Jul 29, 2014

Jul 22, 2007
Doctor Who
Series 1, Episode 1

Hello, Occupation. Hello, friends.

To prove that life is tasteless, this episode, where Mega Man mannequins attempt to destroy London and a big-eared man cannot do card tricks, carries a freight of cultural significance behind it that would make the Louvre take notice. In its home field of Britain, Doctor Who is less of a show and more of a cultural cornerstone, to the point where the poor sod who initially cancelled it was snubbed by the Queen herself, which means that his ghost is cursed to forever sit outside a chip shop, smelling the fried delights inside, but never able to partake. The first episode of what is colloquially termed "nu-Who" was engineered to introduce this social phenomenon, this giant wallop of TV history, to a hip young audience with a notoriously short attention span; basically what it had to do was smash down the lengthy TV serials into an easily digestible 45 minutes that embodied what you could call the spirit of Doctor Who.

And it succeeded, God help you all.

What you have to realize is that Doctor Who is stupid. Astoundingly, superlatively stupid. It's less science fiction and more a cartoon as performed by lumpy British people. Plots are threadbare. Characters are caricatures. Motivations fall apart under a moment's scrutiny. Everything is glued together by "witty" dialogue that misses as often as it hits and lengthened by Flintstones-style chase scenes through cheap sets. So why do I so often find it delightful? Before we embark on the journey to answer this question, let's examine some of the more important lumpy British people in front of us:


This pallid Welsh gentlemen was the man responsible for getting the modern Doctor Who out the door, and the majority of the first several seasons' more plot-critical episodes are his fault I mean responsibility. Nerd perception of him followed the usual pattern, in which he was adored, then disliked, then reviled, then loathed, and then as soon as he was replaced he was adored again, with his successor going through the pattern instead. Davies' episodes tend to have big, ambitious plots which often recycle older Who villains with little exposition or explanation (not that most of them need any), and he's a big fan of "emotional" character writing, which has the unfortunately tendency to turn into abject saccharine like 90% of the time. Other weaknesses include a reliance on silly science-babble to solve all his problems and his "ambitious" plots going absolutely loving cuckoobananas instead, especially towards the end of his run. Still, he's got enthusiasm and a sense of fun, which no one can fault him for.


The Doctor's personality follows the same basic template across each of his incarnations (a process explained in later episodes, which is really very clever in a mercenary "how do we keep changing actors for this dude and have it make sense" kind of way), with his actors and showrunners tweaking it as needed. The base personality is that of a hyperactive, contrary, often smug, sometimes frustrating chronic do-gooder who whipsaws between gushing idealism and embittered fatalism depending on what he had for breakfast that morning. Nine, played by Christopher Eccleston, has a bit of a dour side to contrast his wide-eyed wackiness on account of killing an extravagantly large number of people prior to the events of this episode, but he's not as big a killjoy as his black-leather biker getup would suggest. I've always found Eccleston to be the most solid, versatile actor of the new Doctors, for what little that's worth - he adapted to scripts as needed and wasn't sunk by his own gimmicks, though his short run may have had something to do with that. Eccleston's strengths include his acting chops, a hilarious Northern purr, and a smile that makes my knees go weak. His main weakness is a mortal fear of commitment.


Historically, the "Companion" characters in Doctor Who are humans who accompany him on his space adventures. Nearly all of them are attractive young women (because let it never be said this show doesn't know its demographic) whose main purpose is to provide something for the Doctor to be clever at and scream when Bad Things occur. Rose, played by Billie Piper, rises to this challenge in her pilot episode, but as Companions go she starts off weak and gets weaker as things run on. Piper herself is an inoffensive actress, but she rarely acts as more of a setup for exposition; while she gets some nice development episodes later, they're resolved quickly and all she's left with is mooning over the Doctor. On top of that, Rose eventually drags in a couple of satellite characters who lose their shine faster than pyrite in a septic tank, and her teeth look like they're trying to escape her head it weirds me out you guys. As a starter Companion she could be a lot worse, but it's a real long time before this show gets one I actually like.

So we have these two running through an oddly sterile version of London under siege by sentient plastic. We replaced Rose's boyfriend with a latex Terminator, let's see if she notices. The Doctor has an impassioned speech with a grumbly lava lamp. The directors of the London Mall dearly regret outfitting all their mannequins with built-in automatic weapons. A trash can burps. Occupation screams. His misery gives me power.

Warts and all, "Rose" really does encapsulate what to expect from Doctor Who as a whole. It's delirious, stupid fun on a shoestring budget, and half the pleasure of it is seeing what kind of nonsense it will come up with next (that's it, Mickey! Strain away from that sticky, hungry dustbin!), and whether or not that nonsense will actually flirt with genuine cleverness and pathos. In fine detail, the episode was a bit of a clunker, so eager to shove out all its exposition that none of the actors really get a chance to flex - the TARDIS introduction in particular came off as a bit weak, with Rose dashing in and out of the iconic, "bigger on the inside" space-time travel machine like she needed to go potty - but in broad, tonal strokes, it succeeds. Doctor Who starts as it means to go on. The road ahead of us is a rocky one, and the ditch-weeds shall grow lush from our tears.

Mar 19, 2007

My name is Oliver Queen...
Not gonna lie. I already 5'd this thread. :allears:

Oct 23, 2007

Your life and your quest end here.

I'm a big fan of Doctor Who, but over the years it veered wildly between very good and pretty bad. William Hartnell, Tom Baker and Sylvester McCoy were mostly great, Peter Davison and Colin Baker were OK, and Patrick Troughton and Jon Pertwee were bad. But NuWho is awful. Just terrible in every way. And the first episode is a pretty good indicator of what the entire rest of the series will be like.

A few specific things that I noticed when watching this episode originally.
  • Autons. They were dumb the first time, they brought them back a second time and they were still dumb, then they decided to use them as the first antagonist for the new series. Why?
  • Originally it was a special plastic the Nestene consciousness had made, not just ordinary human-made plastic dummies. Still dumb, but at least an attempt was made to make sense.
  • The plot can be summed up in about three sentences, and yet it feels rushed. How do you even manage that?
  • The best Doctor Who companions were the ones who brought something to the table, who actually contributed. Leela, Ian, the brigadier, Romana. Rose, on the other hand, has no discernible skills or talents and is practically braindead.
  • The time war. I know not much has been said about it yet, but god, it is the worst.

Jun 18, 2004

Grimey Drawer
Occupation I'm letting you know very, very far in advance that these first four seasons, while stupid as gently caress a lot of the time, are still a hundred times less offensively lovely than the Matt Smith era and if you disagree we're gonna have to fight. But I know you look into things with a certain level of depth so I'm counting on you to understand how surface-level silliness is a much more forgivable sin than what Moffat does to the show (and as a feminist, ohhhh boy!).

Otherwise, great thread so far! I'm sorry we did this to you, but also, nah.

Jul 22, 2007
Anyone who thinks the serials were anything other than a covertly developed sleep aid is mentally ill and Moffat's better than Davies on his worst day no matter what the Tumblr crowd thinks, peace

Jun 18, 2004

Grimey Drawer
If you only watch the show on a surface level I'm sure Moffat comes off as the better showrunner because he doesn't have ridiculous poo poo like monster dustbins but I have honest trouble believing anyone who actually thinks about anything that happens for more than a few seconds could prefer him. Not that you're not a smart dude Oxx because you clearly are but you admitted already you watched it for dumb silly fun or whatever.

NieR Occomata
Jan 18, 2009

Glory to Mankind.

Yo he was agreein with you

Ed: wait no he wasn't? Man oxx that was one awkwardly constructed post

NieR Occomata fucked around with this message at 13:15 on Jul 29, 2014

Jul 22, 2007


Yo he was agreein with you

Ed: wait no he wasn't? Man oxx that was one awkwardly constructed post

The chunky fingers of your mind cannot unravel the fine threads of my posting.

Oct 3, 2013
The simple fact of the matter is that Russell T Davies' run is monster-of-the-week. It's more about just the spirit of adventure than anything else. It served it's purpose to reintroduce Doctor Who into the world.

Moffat's Matt Smith arch is not simply monster-of-the-week. Starting in Tennant's era it laid the foundation of a ballsy, three season, fully resolved story line that set up the next chapter. As with anything that major of a scale, you can find shortcomings. But any major serious plot issues have always been, in my experience, a fault in the viewer's understanding of events, not their portrayal. Season 6's conclusion being a classic example.

RTD era had some decent episodes, but most of it can be just background static. Moffat's era has so much interwoven across episodes there's more to enjoy with a second-pass through.

Dec 20, 2003

There's also a common feeling that even if you disregard arc vs monster of the week, many find the Moffat era vastly better written, with a less Mary-Sue-ish Doctor. That said, there's since been a general backlash from a lot of fans against that, especially since it got overcomplicated towards the end of his run and even I'll admit that Moffat lost control of himself. Also, it's been decided - mainly by Tumblr, to be honest - that his main Companion's overall journey was insulting to women and anti-feminist and generally regressive.

I disagree.

But if we get into this right now it's gonna totally derail the thread seasons in advance. So Bown, others, let's not get into arguing (about how incredibly wrong you are) re: Moffat vs Davies until after they reach that point in their watchthrough, and instead discuss the episodes as they come because that is the point of a watchthrough although I admit I did just get my two cents in before saying that.

Jun 18, 2004

Grimey Drawer
Okay I'm done, but for the record saying people didn't like it because it was too complicated is pretty drat laughable.

NieR Occomata
Jan 18, 2009

Glory to Mankind.

Have you guys ever considered the fact that this show is really loving stupid, always, forever? Because that's my takeaway, that's it's real fuckin stupid, always, forever. Just sayin' doggs

Jun 18, 2004

Grimey Drawer
Hey Occ I made the Masters of Sex thread go post in it

Dec 20, 2003

I love Doctor Who, but it's always been pretty drat stupid. EMBRACE THE STUPIDITY.

Bown posted:

Okay I'm done, but for the record saying people didn't like it because it was too complicated is pretty drat laughable.

Convoluted was closer to what I meant, really.

NieR Occomata
Jan 18, 2009

Glory to Mankind.

Bown posted:

Hey Occ I made the Masters of Sex thread go post in it

I haven't seen this or last weeks episode, I've been watching a much shittier British doctor instead :(

Aug 27, 2004

You can't take it with you, you know.
Hey man, just a suggestion: if you ever need to get the sour taste of the show out of your mouth, try watching one the old serials from the Colin Baker years with the most acclaim: The Twin Dilemma. I gather that you're something of a feminist, so you'll particularly like the way that the Doctor interacts with his young woman companion in the first episode.

Emerson Cod
Apr 14, 2004

by Pragmatica

Bicyclops posted:

Hey man, just a suggestion: if you ever need to get the sour taste of the show out of your mouth, try watching one the old serials from the Colin Baker years with the most acclaim: The Twin Dilemma. I gather that you're something of a feminist, so you'll particularly like the way that the Doctor interacts with his young woman companion in the first episode.

It's enough to make you choke up.

Seriously, though - the show is best described as a bunch of different shows that happen to share the same continuity. The tone and quality varies from showrunner to showrunner and while yes, there are some truly terrible episodes, there are genuinely good ones as well. Though, generally you have to be on board with the idea of an eccentric alien traveling from place to place trying to solve mysteries and fight monsters.

Sep 23, 2003

A bracing glass of carrot juice!


Post in this thread with the mentality "Doctor Who is loving stupid, don't treat it as anything besides the stupidest loving thing".

That's how I post in the regular Doctor Who thread

Jul 22, 2007

Bicyclops posted:

Hey man, just a suggestion: if you ever need to get the sour taste of the show out of your mouth, try watching one the old serials from the Colin Baker years with the most acclaim: The Twin Dilemma. I gather that you're something of a feminist, so you'll particularly like the way that the Doctor interacts with his young woman companion in the first episode.

It's a trick. Get the axe.

May 10, 2012

by Fluffdaddy
Oh BOY you're going to do a running count of how often the sonic screw driver is a giant plot device.

:allears: this will be magical. Don't forget to review A Minute in Hell some time, too!

Mr. Humalong
May 7, 2007

I tried to watch this show a few months ago. The friend who recommended it to me had me watch what turned out to be the best episode (of the ones I saw) first, then start from the beginning. I gave up at some point in season 3, just couldn't suffer through any more.

Sleep of Bronze
Feb 9, 2013

If I could only somewhere find Aias, master of the warcry, then we could go forth and again ignite our battle-lust, even in the face of the gods themselves.

MrL_JaKiri posted:

That's how I post in the regular Doctor Who thread

More people in there should. :v:

(I hate Who a lot less than EPA and a lot more than the megathreads tend to do, so this will be a fun ride.)

Jul 22, 2007

Burkion posted:

Oh BOY you're going to do a running count of how often the sonic screw driver is a giant plot device.

:allears: this will be magical. Don't forget to review A Minute in Hell some time, too!

I made it clear to Occ at the start that the screwdriver is basically a magic space wand. If he tried to keep a running count of Problems Screwdriver'd he'd run out of conventional numbers before series 3.

Emerson Cod
Apr 14, 2004

by Pragmatica
To lay things out a bit better with regards to the show being considered a ton of different shows with the same continuity:

1st and 2nd Doctors - Classic sci-fi. A bit silly at times due to the budget, but it generally has a serious tone and some of the best episodes compare favorably to the Twilight Zone, Outer Limits, and other contemporaries.

3rd Doctor - I actually haven't watched much of his stuff. I know it's got some of the sillier stuff but it's also got some of the best.

4th Doctor - Douglas Adams' influence is felt a lot here. It's random, sometimes dumb, but usually fairly well written and witty.

5th Doctor - I haven't seen much of this run either.

6th Doctor - Mercifully short.

7th Doctor - Absolutely ridiculous and revels in it. The run that got the show cancelled.

8th Doctor - Decent sci-fi TV movie that was on par or a bit better than other network offerings at the time. I think it aired after Sliders on Fox and had a similar tone.

9th Doctor - Stupid. So stupid. So much wasted potential with a few fantastic moments. The back half is much better than the first. Very similar in tone to similar shows on the BBC at the time.

10th Doctor - Again, pretty stupid. Lots of magic wand waving and manic jumping. There are some stand-out episodes in this run, with the 3rd season bordering on genuinely good as a whole.

11th Doctor - The first season is the most consistently well written season of the series to date. The others are 50/50 decent to good with only a couple standout episodes.

This is all coming from someone who's watched the revival from 9 to present, plus several episodes of the original run. I've also listened to most of Big Finish's audio plays which put the older Doctors in newer, better written stories, but I haven't let those color my perceptions of their TV runs.

Sep 23, 2003

A bracing glass of carrot juice!

Emerson Cod posted:

4th Doctor - Douglas Adams' influence is felt a lot here. It's random, sometimes dumb, but usually fairly well written and witty.

He only got involved after a few years. The first few years of that era have a mixture of the silly humour but also a very classic horror tone in a lot of stories.

NieR Occomata
Jan 18, 2009

Glory to Mankind.

Well dead locked my other project so I guess I'll be working on this more often? I'll probably post another review sometime this week

May 26, 2012

This is what America's next drag super star does...

She works for a living.
I'm just happy to find someone who hates Doctor Who as much as I do. Everything about Who is awful and that includes Moffat and David Tennant.

Jun 18, 2004

Grimey Drawer
Who might actually be the most inconsistent show I've ever seen. The quality of each episode has way more to do with the quality of that episode's writer than anything else. So for instance, Davies' are stupid as gently caress and overtly wacky, Gatiss' are insanely generic and boring, etc.

Oct 23, 2007

Your life and your quest end here.

Bicyclops posted:

Hey man, just a suggestion: if you ever need to get the sour taste of the show out of your mouth, try watching one the old serials from the Colin Baker years with the most acclaim: The Twin Dilemma. I gather that you're something of a feminist, so you'll particularly like the way that the Doctor interacts with his young woman companion in the first episode.
If you want to watch one of the old serials that's actually good, Genesis of the Daleks is my recommendation, if you can get past how ridiculous the Daleks look and you have the patience for it, because the show was a lot slower back then.

Oxxidation posted:

I made it clear to Occ at the start that the screwdriver is basically a magic space wand. If he tried to keep a running count of Problems Screwdriver'd he'd run out of conventional numbers before series 3.
What I really hate about the sonic screwdriver in NuWho, is that it should never have been brought back. It was actually written out of the show in one of the Peter Davison episodes because it was too convenient and did too much. Also, why does it have a blue light on it now?

Nov 18, 2011

A little privacy, please?

Tiggum posted:

Also, why does it have a blue light on it now?

Merchandising. In fact, after the original prop kept breaking, they replaced it with one based on the toy mold (not a literal toy though, just with kid-toy levels of structural integrity).

Oct 1, 2005

I will confess,
I love this cultured hell that tests my youth.

I'm gonna echo that Doctor Who sucks but Matt Smith made the modern Who way more tolerable than Tennant ever could. If you think Doctor Who sucks now then I can't wait for you to get to the Tenth Doctor episodes. :allears:

Donna still owns though

Jan 30, 2006

Steven doesn't want me watching him sleep anymore.
Yo Occupation you did a really good job illustrating how similar Doctor Who is to Power Rangers (same vfx guy?), I can totally see Rita Repulsa sending down evil space mannequins to conquer the earth, so good job there. Really enjoying your reviews, so keep it up. I really hope you keep this up for a long time, I'll be looking forward to it.

Dec 20, 2003

I can't wait to hear the review of Bad Wolf, the most tonally bizarre episode ever. :allears:

May 24, 2012
So E PLURIBUS ANUS is Occupation? (the dude who used to have a Jesse from Breaking Bad avatar or something?)

Anyway, I am British and really really really hate Doctor Who too. I do not see the appeal at all and it's nice to find someone else who understands this.

Regy Rusty
Apr 26, 2010

I once held similar hatred for this show and then its feel-good stupidity won me over and I loved it for a while.

And then seasons 6 and 7 happened and now I guess I'm... ambivalent?

I'm interested to see if it can crack through Occupation's cold dead heart as it did mine.

Jun 18, 2004

Grimey Drawer
I guess in order to say one positive thing about Moffat I will say I totally prefer season 5 to at least two of the Tennant seasons (2 and 4, of course. 3 is fairly neat outside of boring-rear end episodes like Lazarus Experiment and 42).


NieR Occomata
Jan 18, 2009

Glory to Mankind.

Doctor who fans describe their relationship with doctor who the same way battered housewives describe their relationship with their abusive husbands

This poo poo is fuckin weird, I was expectin a bunch of "THIS SHOW RULES gently caress YOU OCC" and instead it's "yeah doctor who sucks a lot/mostly but once you get to know him he's a really lovely guy. I got this bruise from walking into a cabinet, it's bigger on the inside...:smith:"

  • Locked thread