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Toxxupation posted:Reminder to send in your guesses for Series 5 if you haven't! It's free and here's the stuff you could win! Is it OK to throw in one more prize? I have this extra  *(1 Dollar tier), with 8 hours of Dalek fun. With Criteria: Best combined placement from both Toxxupation guessing games, who didn't win anything else. (So if you were no.6 in first contest and number 24 in this one: score 30. Smaller is better. Only people who participated in both (excluding me), are in) *Ad: Still available for purchase for 1 more day.
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Jan 6, 2015 11:47
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This is just a plot to get Toxx to listen to some audios, isn't it? Technically he will have the best score. Also Falloutchat: Old World Blues was my favourite part out of all of 3 and New Vegas. Second was Rex. I am a sucker for Dogs in Videogames.
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Jan 6, 2015 13:00
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MikeJF posted:New Vegas was a better game but I honestly preferred the Capitol Wasteland setting more, The Mojave just felt like a city and surroundings that had fallen on hard times rather than a post-apocalyptic wasteland. I missed the urban environment from Fallout 3 but the New Vegas DLCs gave me my fix. Old World Blues is one big post-apoc ruin full of monsters, and Lonesome Road is the same but even more hosed up. And Dead Money's possibly the most hostile place in the series.
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Jan 6, 2015 13:32
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MikeJF posted:A Fallout with the dramatically improved (albiet still horribly flawed) post-Skyrim engine as opposed to the post-Oblivion engine would be lovely and amazing and time to buy a new computer. The post-Skyrim engine is certainly "flawed" but "horribly" is one hell of an overstatement. It's easily one of the better engines to play around with, and the quirky glitchiness of it is just a factor of its modability. Fallout 3 should have been more up my alley given my video game habits, but yeah, New Vegas was just a better game. It felt like it fit better tonally with the series, and I actually think it did a better job of portraying a post-apocalpyse world than 3 did, which over-focused on forcing the development of the player character through dad. I never played any of them as extensively as I played Elder Scrolls, though, so I'm still rooting for ES6: Hist Sap Rap or ES6: Cat Caravans or ES6: Let's Get Rid of These drat Elves or whatever the next one is going to be first, even though they already came out with Skyrim and the online game, because I am greedy.
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Jan 6, 2015 15:21
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Bicyclops posted:The post-Skyrim engine is certainly "flawed" but "horribly" is one hell of an overstatement. It's easily one of the better engines to play around with, and the quirky glitchiness of it is just a factor of its modability. The core engine's fine but Papyrus is still prone to some pretty drat major issues. It's far too easy to break gameplay or end up with a flawed save with orphaned scripts running wild. I agree with everyone that New Vegas was a better game and narrative. I just really prefer the Capital Wasteland environment itself.
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Jan 6, 2015 15:23
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MikeJF posted:The core engine's fine but Papyrus is still prone to some pretty drat major issues. It's far too easy to break gameplay or end up with a flawed save with orphaned scripts running wild. I think I've had to use the console all of three times to fix issues when playing Oblivion and Skryim, and I've played them both a lot. I imagine it would suck playing it on an XBox, but I find it hard to call it major if the issues I've encountered, beyond a few flying NPCs or some [TEXT NOT FOUND] stuff, are less than a handful in hundreds of hours. 
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Jan 6, 2015 15:30
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MikeJF posted:I agree with everyone that New Vegas was a better game and narrative. I just really prefer the Capital Wasteland environment itself. The Capitol Wasteland loses a lot of verisimilitude points with me because it's still so destitute and chaotic 200 years after the bombs fell. It looked more like 25-50. I know from a technical and marketing perspective why that was the case, but it still bugs the poo poo out of me (and to be fair New Vegas did too on a much smaller scale, which is why I installed that Electric Company mod to add more lighting infrastructure). Also I'm very glad Toxx is digging 11's first episode. Can't wait to see how this season pans out.
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Jan 6, 2015 15:41
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MikeJF posted:A Fallout with the dramatically improved (albiet still horribly flawed) post-Skyrim engine as opposed to the post-Oblivion engine would be lovely and amazing and time to buy a new computer. Fallout 3 came out 2 years after Oblivion; at this point it seems like they're waiting for a new (maybe idtech inspired) engine before they release any more games period. That or ESO is taking up all their time.
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Jan 6, 2015 16:00
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computer parts posted:Fallout 3 came out 2 years after Oblivion; at this point it seems like they're waiting for a new (maybe idtech inspired) engine before they release any more games period. ESO is done by a different studio, it's almost certain that the main Fallout/Elder Scrolls team are working on Fallout 4 right now. And yeah I do wish Obsidian were working on the new Fallout rather than Bethesda, New Vegas was my favourite game of the last generation. I loved how you had several different well thought out factions rather than just a choice between being a good guy or a psychotic dickhead like in Fallout 3. Though I still really enjoyed Fallout 3.
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Jan 6, 2015 16:11
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I imagine I'll probably eventually buy Bethesda's Fallout 4 after it's come out, been out for awhile and gone down in price etc. But if Obsidian announces "Fallout: gently caress It, We're Going to Denver" I'll be getting it on day drat one.
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Jan 6, 2015 21:56
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Republican Vampire posted:Also Bioshock 2 probably had the best gameplay but the dumbest story. That game really couldn't decide if you were the villain or not.
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Jan 6, 2015 22:32
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Oxxidation posted:It wasn't even accurate. I've got the toxx, not him, and I'm very rarely mad according to nine out of ten psychiatrists. Did you keep biting them?
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Jan 6, 2015 22:58
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Republican Vampire posted:Also Bioshock 2 probably had the best gameplay but the dumbest story. The took the critically panned escort mission of the first game's final real stage, and made it a routine for every level. How is that the best gameplay?
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Jan 6, 2015 23:07
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Yvonmukluk posted:Did you keep biting them? They said Occ wasn't real.
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Jan 6, 2015 23:22
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Republican Vampire posted:Also Bioshock 2 probably had the best gameplay but the dumbest story. We gotta have satire like the first game did. So we'll make the run-of-the-mill mad scientist say some superficially collectivist things.
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Jan 7, 2015 00:12
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Lycus posted:We gotta have satire like the first game did. So we'll make the run-of-the-mill mad scientist say some superficially collectivist things. Don't forget that one of the first people you go after in the early part of the game is a target for you because she helped poor people.
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Jan 7, 2015 00:15
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MrL_JaKiri posted:That game really couldn't decide if you were the villain or not. You were Liam Neeson from Taken, so whichever.
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Jan 7, 2015 00:20
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Doctor Who "The Beast Below" Series 5, Episode 2 I don't usually like genre fiction, as I've reiterated numerous times before. Therefore, most episodes of Doctor Who I watch, especially the genre-rear end ones, I enjoy for a reason outside of it being a sci-fi show- I enjoy a performance, a line or lines of dialog, a specific scene or moment, an interaction. It goes on. The sci-fi conceits- the sonic screwdrivers, the concept of the TARDIS, virtually every single alien, most "alien" settings -usually don't do anything for me or I actively dislike. This probably has much to do with how cheap such elements are- I've bitched about the Sonic Screwdriver enough but it's a magic loving wand that cuts through plot points like a hot knife through butter, I hate how every "alien" is a human with weird colored skin and an odd shaped item on their head...I could go on. The point I'm trying to make is that I've essentially made my peace with the fact that Doctor Who is a genre as gently caress genre TV show that does those sorts of things because, well, that's what Who watchers like I guess. It doesn't personally appeal to me, but I guess it does to others or the people making this program would've stopped by now. Just because I don't usually like genre fiction doesn't mean I don't have genre fiction I personally enjoy. Most of the genre fiction I like, I like because it contains very little elements of the more "out there" concepts- Battlestar Galactica, for instance, is basically a socio-political drama in space interspersed with some, in my opinion, absolutely atrocious looking ship battles, and the central concept of the show- what defines a human -is played for emotional effect over a more Asimov-like thought exercise. Game of Thrones, as well, is more about the relationship between rulers and the ruled, and the differences between a "good leader" and a "good person", over mundane fantasy poo poo, and in my opinion the more magical aspects of the series are the by-far shittiest portions of it. The Leftovers, my favorite show that aired in the past year, is a post-apocalyptic show that deals fully with the effects of its causal event by exploring the reactions of the individuals and societies that formed after it, never deigning or even intimating to explain the hows and whys of the backstory. Basically, what I'm saying is I'll totally watch genre works, as long as you remove all the...uh..."genre" part of it. Usually. I do like some super, totally genre as gently caress stuff though. This is most commonly found in video games- where most settings, due to video games usually being power fantasies, and the people who make video games being giant loving nerds goddamn, are either Lord of the Rings style high fantasy or the wonders of space and space travel. If I were to play video games as a hobby, and I do, I would have two options: either one, learn to tolerate all the elves and space elves, or two, play Nintendo games. One of these clearly isn't a reasonable choice. I mean, seriously guys. Nintendo games. And so we arrive, circuitously, at my point. One of my favorite video game series is the Fallout series of games, which in case you are not aware have as their conceit the Cold War suddenly turning hot in the mid '60s, every nation with nuclear capabilities bombing each other back to the loving Stone Age, and the world as a whole becoming greatly irradiated- with the human race only surviving due to America having installed beforehand a series of Vaults across the country that worked as self-sufficient bomb shelters for a thousand people. All Fallout games are set at least a hundred years after the events of World War Three, with the conceit being ostensibly to Do a Thing for Some Guy but really it's an excuse to explore the world as envisioned by each game's creators. Fallout: New Vegas is my favorite of them all, and the reason why is because of how well the game understands the setting in which it is set, and how well it utilizes that setting to tell its own stories. To me, the most notable, and impressive, example of this storytelling trend is with Vault 11. Vault 11, as the name implies, is one of the Vaults that were installed across the Wasteland, and at any point in the playing of New Vegas the player character can stumble across its location and subsequently explore it. Vault 11 is a "Story Vault"; there's barely any combat within it. The player character simply experiences the narrative that the game's writers designed, and then they leave. What makes Vault 11 so notable is, one, its general quality; it's one of the best narratives I've experienced in a video game, and affected me so deeply and purely I've played around with the thought of drafting out a script for a short film based on the story contained within Vault 11. The second reason, however, is in how Vault 11 tells its specific story; due to the way events have transpired within it, there are no NPCs in Vault 11, no characters to interact with. Therefore, the story of Vault 11 that's told is a contextual one; it comes from observing the rooms within it, reading the notes scattered about, listening to the audiologs. The way the story of Vault 11 is conveyed, and the specific location in which it is conveyed, gives what happens in Vault 11 a closed-off, self-contained feel that also, simultaneously, dimensionalizes the world in which that Vault inhabits; sure, the tragedy of Vault 11 is in large part due to the specific society that formed within it and the mistakes that that society made, but the tragedy could've only happened in the Mojave desert in which New Vegas is set. It's a neat trick that Vault 11 pulls; it's a singular, separate narrative that also has statements of the larger Fallout universe. "The Beast Below" opens aboard a spaceship emblazoned with the British flag. A young boy has received a "zero" on his school work. The teacher- an automated fortune teller that's able to change its face at will -directs him "below", with another classmate, a young girl, promising to "wait for him". He's forced off the elevator that all of his classmates are on by a black-robed figure, then directed onto another, different elevator- which drops him, of course, to "the beast below". Cut to credits. The Doctor and Amy, immediately after the events of "Eleventh Hour", stumble across the British spaceship. As The Doctor patiently explains, it's the 29th century, and solar flares have destroyed the Earth- so all of the nations within it have built giant spaceships and taken to the stars in search of a better home. That's not just a British spaceship- that's literally the entire UK (Scotland excluded). The Doctor and Amy disembark on future-UK, but not before The Doctor warns Amy that they are both "observers only", they never interfere in other people's affairs- which might be the biggest lie anyone's ever told on this show. The Doctor quickly notices that something is terribly wrong with the ship, before inexplicably grabbing a glass of water, placing it on the ground, and staring at it. Our intrepid duo quickly come across the young girl from the cold open, clearly upset about what happened to the young boy. The Doctor tasks Amy with tracking down what, exactly, is going on- specifically, why everyone is so scared of the fortune tellers (hereafter referred to as the "Smilers") -before going off on his own, separate adventure. Simultaneously, a black-robed old man, who had been spying on them the whole time, radios back to a red-hooded woman- one who also has a whole set of glasses of water on the ground. Amy quickly meets the young girl, but not before discovering a hole in the underground from which a giant stinger emerges, menacing her. Amy escapes, only to be surrounded by a group of the black-robed figures, who knock her out with sleeping gas. Meanwhile, The Doctor (who is checking out the engine room) is confronted by the red-robed woman- who refers to herself as Liz 10 (Sophie Okonedo). Liz somehow knows who The Doctor is, and confronts him over the glass of water. The Doctor reveals that the glass was to check to see if there was any engine vibration- a ship the size of Starship UK, the vibration of the engine would've displaced the water just walking around. But it didn't. In fact, as The Doctor soon discovers, there is no engine- all of the power lines are fake, all of the walls are hollow. Liz has deduced the same thing, and gives The Doctor a tracker to Amy's location, before quickly leaving. Amy awakens in front of a Smiler, with a pre-recorded video playing for her, welcoming her to a voting cubicle- as it turns out, every denizen of Space UK, starting at the age of 16 and every 5 years afterwards, is given the truth of what is really going on beneath the ship, and then given two options: "FORGET" or "PROTEST". If they "FORGET", they immediately forget (natch) what they've learned and are returned to the public, and if they "PROTEST" they don't. However, if 1% of the ship at large chooses to "PROTEST", then the program that runs the ship- whatever that is- will be immediately stopped, with whatever unintended and potentially grave consequences that could arise from such a decision immediately being implemented. Amy learns what happens, and immediately chooses to forget- but not before leaving a tear-filled message for her mind-wiped future self to get The Doctor off of the ship, under any circumstance. The Doctor quickly catches up to Amy, and, after some futzing about with the machine- he's not recognized as a human eligible to vote, since he, well, isn't one -presses the "PROTEST" button, dropping him and Amy into the mouth of a giant beast- a whale. One vomit-ride back out, and they end up in the midst of some tunnels, when who should show up by Liz 10- or more accurately, Queen Elizabeth X- the Queen, in disguise. She suspects her government- the hooded people -are hiding something from her, and desperately needs The Doctor to help figure out what it is. Before The Doctor et al can hatch a plan, the hooded figures burst into Elizabeth's room and force her to 'The Tower'- where the whole charade is revealed. It turns out that people who protest and the dregs of society are fed to a giant space whale, which is what's transporting Starship UK on its back. The space whale, the very last of its kind, arrived at Britain the moment when the solar flares hit Earth- the UK was caught completely by surprise and didn't have a functioning ship, at all. In gratitude for its nation-saving kindness, the people of the UK ended up enslaving the beast, making it into a replacement engine, and forced it to move via torturing its brain. For centuries. You see, Elizabeth X was the one who put this whole plan into motion- as a desperate move to save her doomed nation, sure, but the guilt and horror of what she did caused her to wipe her own memories of her plan. Except none of it stuck, so roughly every ten years Liz would figure out what was going on, leading her to The Tower, finding out what happened, and choosing to forget everything. Over and over and over, endlessly, in a pointless and awful cycle. Amy ended up wiping her memories because she realized that if The Doctor and her continued down this path, that The Doctor would be forced to make a choice- an impossible choice- between killing all of humanity and letting the Star Whale continue to be tortured. He decides on a third option- to grudgingly, "kill" the Star Whale- destroy its higher brain functions -so it won't feel pain and work as a true, brain-dead engine. Before The Doctor goes through with his plan, Amy realizes that the Star Whale's arrival those hundreds of years ago wasn't coincidental- it arrived to save "the children", and that it doesn't need to be imprisoned or tortured to transport everyone. Amy forces Liz to press the "ABDICATE" button, and everything continues as normal. The day is saved. Most of the time I don't like genre-rear end genre fiction, which Doctor Who most certainly is. "The Beast Below", however, is an example of a completely, utterly genre television show that I would adore. I would, seriously, watch an entire series, and I mean that in the US and not UK sense of the term, all about Eleven and Amy hopping from nation-ship to nation-ship sorting out each location's problem, because the universe established is so strong, so different than everything else on Who. "The Beast Below", like Vault 11, is an example of a form of storytelling I like best- the point of entry stumbles across a self-contained setting or narrative that's been shut off from everything else, and within that singular location alone one gleans a full narrative that implies a greater fiction and universe in which it inhabits. In both cases, the audience insert isn't the central focus of the story- The Doctor and Amy both come across as interested observers caught up within a larger narrative, and honestly have very little impact on it beyond its climax and resolution. This is very rarely done in Doctor Who, and more's the shame, really. The Doctor and his Companion usually come across a location that desperately needs help, and the narrative suddenly turns to be about the two main characters trying to save the day. This makes every setting they visit come across as variations of the same theme- an impending crisis that needs solving. In contrast, the setting and world of "The Beast Below" is its narrative. It doesn't feel sci-fi because today the showrunner wanted a story about the Droogs on planet Drug needing to be saved, unlike last week when it was the Greeks in ancient Greece; the established, alien society of Starship UK is essential for the way in which the plot functions, and so much of the episode is The Doctor and Amy figuring that out. "The Beast Below" isn't a half-step between straight-laced drama and weird sci-fi; it's 100% weird, which is what I want out of my genre fiction. There's a coherency to the universe of the 29th century in "The Beast Below" that pleased me just on a surface level. I loved the design of Starship UK- I loved how closely its art direction resembles the Bioshock series of games, a series that has in my opinion some of the best art direction and design in all of video games. I loved how the design of the ship itself is far future technology by way of distant past implementation- Fallout does this a lot, having crazy awesome technology use vacuum tubes, or old CRT televisions, or weird display flickering that you only get from '80s-'90s computer screens. I loved the weird juxtaposition of anachronisms- the strange, 1940s style font on everything, or the existence of the Smilers themselves. I think the button design- with its clear, simple font and straight lines- implied a sinister edge to the voting procedure far better than anything else did, and helped characterize the world of Starship UK as dystopian far better than a bunch of lines of dialog ever could. Sure, there were a lot of themes and ideas present in this episode, but oddly enough they all worked as part of a cohesive whole- at least to me. I believed that something was wrong with the ship from the very beginning of the episode, that the core of this society was rotten even if the outside sheen looked fine, and most importantly I was excited to find out the truth laying under the surface. Finally, though, the most important reason why I loved "Beast Below" as much as I did was due to the fact that it was an allegory. I love allegories; statements on the human condition and stories that come across as having a broader statement on the writer's outlook on humanity in general specifically appeal to me. It was especially relevant here, because so much of Doctor Who is triumphant, so often "up with people". The fact that the statement of "Beast Below" is a morally complicated one appeals to me very specifically, since I hold the worldview that so much of what defines "good" and "evil" is perspective, and that the best-intentioned people can commit the most horrible atrocities is a hard, ugly truth that I personally believe in. I loved the fact that the voting conceit was added, since in addition to marking and defining the unique realities of the world of this episode it also gave the episode a harder edge; it turned the story from what could've been a rather rote one about a shadow government doing what was "best for its people" and reflected that outwards, by having all the adults on Starship UK overtly complicit in the act. "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing," Edmund Burke most famously said, and here it comes across as especially poignant by having everyone participate in the inaction- from the public at large to Liz at the very top ranks. Amy, even, gets in on it as well: Amy: "I voted for this? Why would I do that?" The Doctor: "Because you knew if we stayed here, I'd be faced with an impossible choice- Humanity or the alien. You took it upon yourself to save me from that. That was wrong. You don't decide what I need to know." Although I think there were executional problems with the way "Beast Below" treated Amy, I think that as a microcosm of the larger atrocity being perpetrated- as an example of how Liz arrived at the conclusion to torture the Star Whale then forget about it by having Amy commit a cardinal sin in order to protect someone else she cared for- it worked. It reinforces the overall moral statement of constantly rejecting ignorance, whether self-imposed or not. One could even argue that The Doctor is guilty of this as well- he immediately buys into the defined narrative that the Star Whale would abandon the Starship if let free, so he's just as much to blame as everyone else is. The fact that it takes Amy willing to see the Star Whale as not a threat, or a dumb beast, but as an ally or friend is what gives the episode its punch, its emotional weight- despite "Beast Below" as a whole being an ugly statement on the predilections for humanity and societies when confronted with a crisis, its climax and catharsis being an ultimately hopeful one makes it emotionally resonant and keeping with the tones and aims of Doctor Who. I admit, I teared up when I heard this line: Amy: "What if you were really old, and really kind and alone. Your whole race dead, no future. What couldn't you do then? If you were that old, and that kind, and the very last of your kind...You couldn't just stand there and watch children cry." Because, yeah, it was a moment of hope in the face of so much overwhelming misery. There's a bunch of problems I have with aspects of "The Beast Below"- I think The Doctor's weird angry outburst, kicking Amy off the TARDIS, was conceptually earned (especially when there's an overt implication that The Doctor sees a lot of himself in the Star Whale) but executionally really poor, so much so that it comes across as weird passive-aggressive emotional abuse on The Doctor's part, and the post-climax scene was some RTD-like really obvious reinforcement of its moral lesson and gilding of the narrative lily, but to me the things that it does right it does so right, and so uniquely from other episodes of Doctor Who that I can't help not giving this an A. This is Moffat's weakest script he's written for Who, by far, but the mere fact that he actually utilizes the conceit of the show in such a way as to build this entire universe I desperately want to see explored, all for a throw-away episode of television, is downright inspiring. That's, ultimately, why I love this episode as much as I do; for once, it's not the emotional centerpiece that makes me give this an A, not matter how affecting it was. It's because he built this wonderful little story within this really well-executed, truly sci-fi universe, so well-executed that I desperately want to see more of it. "The Beast Below" is great because it's a great stand-alone episode that's also a great pilot to a brilliant sci-fi show that never existed. Grade: A Random Thoughts:
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Jan 7, 2015 02:26
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FACTS:
FACTS
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Jan 7, 2015 02:28
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Counterpoint: this episode sucks poo poo and you are bad.
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Jan 7, 2015 02:32
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I think this is a very silly and ramshackle episode that I don't DISLIKE, but I don't really like it much either. Still, I knew you'd like it for some reason. I was expecting a B though, but I'm still pleasantly surprised to see that I was right about the general direction - although I assumed the only big plus you'd have with it is the emotional ending, not so much the setting.
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Jan 7, 2015 02:35
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I can't believe anyone doesn't like this episode. It's another one of my all time favorites.
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Jan 7, 2015 02:35
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Glenn_Beckett posted:Counterpoint: this episode sucks poo poo and you are bad. Countercounterpoint: You are Wrong and I want to hit you with a brick.
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Jan 7, 2015 02:38
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I should've known that you always fall for dumb poo poo Toxx. At this rate most of your reviews will be A-s, and Occ will have to revamp the rating system or something.
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Jan 7, 2015 02:39
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Glenn_Beckett posted:Counterpoint: this episode sucks poo poo and you are bad. Toxxupation posted:FACTS: ed: adhuin posted:Is it OK to throw in one more prize? also yeah sure that's fine
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Jan 7, 2015 02:39
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Regy Rusty posted:I can't believe anyone doesn't like this episode. It's another one of my all time favorites. It's heavy handed and overwrought and the writing sweats profusely, even by Doctor Who standards
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Jan 7, 2015 02:39
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No mention of the phone call at the end or the last moments?
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Jan 7, 2015 02:43
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Damnit. I knew he'd like this, but I was thinking the flaws would drag it down to a B.
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Jan 7, 2015 02:46
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Well I liked this one. Not the first time I saw it, but I was young and dumb back then. Rewatched the first three of this series recently and I was surprised how much I was liking this one.
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Jan 7, 2015 02:55
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Glenn_Beckett posted:It's heavy handed and overwrought and the writing sweats profusely, even by Doctor Who standards Don't you mean the writer?
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Jan 7, 2015 02:55
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This is a REALLY good episode, it's not perfect by any means, but it is REALLY good. A few of the many things I loved about it: - The Doctor makes his big, hilariously untruthful speech to Amy about never interfering, and before he's even finished making the speech he's already rushed off to interfere  - When Liz reveals her face to the child it means NOTHING to the audience because she's a stranger. That's perfect, because we're kind of conditioned to expect a mask to be hiding a known quantity, and it was, but it was a known quantity to the pre-existing characters in the setting and NOT us. The little girl beams with happiness because she recognizes who it is, the mask is worn to give Liz anonymity from her subjects, and the reveal is seemingly for one of their benefit - we're just the observers. - Amy's status as an outsider, the Scottish girl who grew up in a small English village, is referenced with her satisfaction in learning that Scotland left in their own spaceship - The reveal once the torture of the Space-Whale stops that this was actually slowing it down and it's actually traveling far faster now - The fact that the citizens may forget what they learned, but they're not allowed to forget that they CHOSE to forget. They remember being told it is time to vote and that they're about to learn a secret, and they're allowed their memories back JUST as their muscles have passed the point of no return so they consciously recall hitting the Forget button. Note that the Queen doesn't even get that, she never remembers going to the Tower, she never remembers hitting the Forget button, she just restarts the slow process of uncovering the "conspiracy" against her. - Compare the Doctor's explanation of the Time War against the pained, drawn out and reluctant explanations forced on the 9th and 10th Doctors - there is a sense that, while he hasn't forgotten, he has reached at least some level of equilibrium/"peace" with the whole thing. There are problems - the little girl who does the rhyme at the start makes no sense at all unless some of the civil servants running things for the Queen are horrifying sadists.... which I guess might be possible considering their feeding of political radicals/insurgents/CHILDREN to the Space-Whale. The tendrils that almost kill Amy are kind of just filler to provide a sense of danger and serve no other purpose. The half-mechanical men are similarly there purely for the creep factor and don't make much sense at all. Really though, the big selling point of this story is Amy "proving herself" as a companion, and once again demonstrating what all the best companions do - they ground the Doctor, they show him a different way of thinking, they show him the potential of humanity when he's been letdown by the very worst of it etc. Amy restoring his faith and showing him the third way is just great, and helps gives an otherwise pretty dark story a really wonderfully upbeat ending. Toxxupation posted:FACTS: 
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Jan 7, 2015 03:04
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Oof. This is a fine episode of Doctor Who for it's interesting moral quandary and weird setting, but the bit you mentioned at the end, the restating of the moral, completely killed the episode for me. It hit the audience over the head so hard that I, personally, would have dropped two letter grades just for that.
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Jan 7, 2015 03:04
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This episode owns. Haters vacate.
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Jan 7, 2015 03:11
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I'm pretty sure I never went to Vault 11.
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Jan 7, 2015 03:13
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I like this episode, it is probably Moffat's weakest so far, but its still so atmospheric. It is interesting that Matt Smith's doctor's first 3 episodes follow the pattern of their predecessors (contemporary present, future and past).
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Jan 7, 2015 03:19
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I don't hate it, I just didn't get as emotionally involved as Occ did, and thus the flaws in the episode dragged down my estimation of it. Particularly the way Amy gets treated, which bugged me at the time. Thus, I guessed this one to be a C. I figured it to be middle of the road, nothing special. Good balanced out by the bad and all that. Perhaps if I'd seen it more recently before I made my guesses, I'd have bumped it upwards due to Occ's known preference for big emotional moments, which this episode has in spades, but I hadn't so I didn't. It's going to be interesting to watch how people scored this one. I'm betting that there will be more people with perfect scores than played the whole game last season.
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Jan 7, 2015 03:37
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Jerusalem posted:The tendrils that almost kill Amy are kind of just filler to provide a sense of danger and serve no other purpose. I don't know about this one, I just rewatched it and I got the feeling that it was seeking out the crying girl. You can see in the torture room another tendril reaching out for the crying girl there, and it just wants to be comforting.
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Jan 7, 2015 03:37
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BSam posted:I don't know about this one, I just rewatched it and I got the feeling that it was seeking out the crying girl. You can see in the torture room another tendril reaching out for the crying girl there, and it just wants to be comforting. Actually you're right, and I completely forgot about that - so forget that complaint!
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Jan 7, 2015 03:40
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This episode also worked for me so well because Amy's line about old beings was actually pointing something out to me about the Doctor that I didn't know before. It was my fourth ever episode, so having that point driven home was actually pretty meaningful from my perspective.
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Jan 7, 2015 03:43
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copying over my thoughts from the other thread:Blasmeister posted:I just watched The Beast Below recently, and it certainly doesn't fit together like the 'clockwork' moffat stories do (Why are naughty children automatically sent to their 'deaths'? Is the whole 'we'll stop if 1% protest' thing just a bullshit excuses to feed objectors to the whale, the rest of the system seems to work as stated even if it's kinda messed up? What are the winder/human things even really for? Did they not even see if the whale would move them on its own before torturing it to make it move?) And some of the emotional thrust is a bit more bluntly done - the comparison between the whale and the doctor could have been less obviously stated, for instance. But the setting, premise and the acting of the main parties were really well done and the climax does feel earned despite the shaky foundations. I guessed a B, but after rewatching for the first time since the original airdate it a few days back I figured it might score better, the setting is cool enough that the stuff that doesn't quite make sense is excused in the way that, while there isn't an explanation given for much of it, it feels like there could be one, we just aren't being shown it because that's not what the episode is focusing on
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Jan 7, 2015 03:44
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