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Toxxupation posted:
When the Doctor sends Rose home, Lynda is clearly being set up as a replacement companion, before Davies pulls the rug out from under that and kills her. It's a shock, a twist. I think that's pretty clever. Rose was a pretty good character in series 1, I think. Was she a good person? That's very much up for debate. But she is competently characterized. I think the "goal", with Rose, was that she'd start out as a kinda crummy person with some redeeming qualities, and that by traveling with the Doctor, her horizons would be broadened and she'd come out of it a much better person. DoctorWhat fucked around with this message at 02:29 on Aug 18, 2014 |
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Aug 18, 2014 02:23
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Toxxupation posted:Grade: F I feel like it's not going to be fair to toss all the episodes this show puts out into one barrel as "F"s, and perhaps you may need to make up some new grades, like "F minus minus" or "aaaaaugggghghhhhh" Well, just a thought to keep in mind.
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Aug 18, 2014 02:25
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DoctorWhat posted:Whether Series 1 manages this is debatable, but the show DOES pretty definitively succeed in [x] - albiet for a very different, and much better overall, character - later down the line. Shut UP! Why are you telling him things that happen later in the series?
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Aug 18, 2014 02:26
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Toxxupation posted:Unfortunately, I assumed that having Rose be sent back to her time period would essentially write her out of the story from then on, but this is not the loving case. I laughed so hard at this. So very hard. So very very hard. I laughed so hard I did everything short of become erect and ejaculate I laughed so goddamn loving hard. quote:How could you guys still be fans, after this? How could you look at this finale, see that this guy is the guy who'll be guiding you for the forseeable future, that Russell T. Davies thought this was at all an appropriate or earned ending and go "Yeah, I'll keep watching this"? Well speaking for me I came in towards the end of Series 5, which has a good reputation and that's all I'm going to say on that subject. Watching this episode for the first time was a history lesson for me, nothing more. I'm frankly as baffled as you are that it got renewed on the strength of this material. I did really like Eccleston's final scene though, where he tries to explain the process of regeneration to the audience without giving away the surprise, but that's mostly because I love Eccleston's performance in the season as a whole and miss him terribly. quote:[*] Oh, and thinking about it more...The Doctor not wanting to kill all of humanity, that's a good emotional moment from him...But, uh, won't The Daleks kill all of humanity anyways? And the rest of the universe as well? It's a good little scene for Eccleston, yeah, but didn't The Doctor, in not wanting to ripe out a species, just doom the universe? I know.  God I know this feeling. I know this feeling way too loving well. If you had a Doctor Who cliche bingo card this would make a strong loving case for the "free space." quote:[*] Also wow did I call that all the scenes and sequences between Rose and Lynda would be "catty bitches fighting over The Doctor". You get a no-prize for this one. Not going to say why. mind the walrus fucked around with this message at 02:40 on Aug 18, 2014 |
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Aug 18, 2014 02:36
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"Bad Wolf" showing up throughout the season leading to this is one of the dumbest things in the show in my opinion. It has no purpose whatsoever and isn't a remotely interesting secret or hidden thing for viewers to catch. Did someone actually think it was clever? From my memories I think she show gradually starts getting better from here? Though I don't remember season 2 very well so maybe it's all bad and I'm remembering the later ones more fondly.
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Aug 18, 2014 02:39
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Eh I refuse to spoil things for our OP hater here, but let's just say aside from "Blink" there is nothing from Series 2 or 3 that winds up in the "Best Of Doctor Who" collections and for good reason.
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Aug 18, 2014 02:41
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mind the walrus posted:Eh I refuse to spoil things for our OP hater here, but let's just say aside from "Blink" there is nothing from Series 2 or 3 that winds up in the "Best Of Doctor Who" collections and for good reason. This is a wrong statement, and there are some diamonds buried in the poo poo heap.
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Aug 18, 2014 02:46
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Regy Rusty posted:"Bad Wolf" showing up throughout the season leading to this is one of the dumbest things in the show in my opinion. It has no purpose whatsoever and isn't a remotely interesting secret or hidden thing for viewers to catch. Did someone actually think it was clever? In 2005 it was clever. This is nearly decade-old television we're watching. The storytelling conventions are different, the attitudes about serialization were different; the "Bad Wolf" stuff was exciting. It got normal (British) people speculating about what was going to happen on Doctor-loving-Who. The "Bad Wolf" thing helped to change television. Agents of SHIELD's Tahiti, for instance. It's a way of engaging the audience, even when it's shallow.
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Aug 18, 2014 02:47
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mind the walrus posted:Eh I refuse to spoil things for our OP hater here, but let's just say aside from "Blink" there is nothing from Series 2 or 3 that winds up in the "Best Of Doctor Who" collections and for good reason. Impossible Planet, maybe?
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Aug 18, 2014 02:48
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The second two-parter in S3 is really solid, though that's in large part due to the source material.
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Aug 18, 2014 02:50
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Potooweet posted:This is a wrong statement, and there are some diamonds buried in the poo poo heap. Aside from the one Two-Parter I'm thinking of which I happen to think is very overrated, do tell what these diamonds are. 
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Aug 18, 2014 02:53
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S3E11, despite some issues with other elements of the associated arc, is a remarkable single episode.
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Aug 18, 2014 02:54
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Eh I won't jump down your throat and tell you you're wrong, but I never found it anything special. In fact I barely remembered I had even seen it until a re-watch when I realized I was mixing it up with S4E6.
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Aug 18, 2014 02:56
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mind the walrus posted:Eh I won't jump down your throat and tell you you're wrong, but I never found it anything special. In fact I barely remembered I had even seen it until a re-watch when I realized I was mixing it up with S4E6. How you could confuse them I can barely imagine.
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Aug 18, 2014 03:03
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DoctorWhat posted:In 2005 it was clever. This is nearly decade-old television we're watching. The storytelling conventions are different, the attitudes about serialization were different; the "Bad Wolf" stuff was exciting. It got normal (British) people speculating about what was going to happen on Doctor-loving-Who. Are you telling me that in 2005 people were catching those words showing up again and again, speculating about what they meant, and then (and this is the important one!) were satisfied when the answer was revealed? I find that kinda hard to believe but if you were there and witnessed it I will take your word for it. E: I watched all of Who in 2011 so I am quite far removed from the original airings until the second half of season 6 and season 7.
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Aug 18, 2014 03:07
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Regy Rusty posted:Are you telling me that in 2005 people were catching those words showing up again and again, speculating about what they meant, and then (and this is the important one!) were satisfied when the answer was revealed? Yeah! It was a TV event!
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Aug 18, 2014 03:09
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DoctorWhat posted:How you could confuse them I can barely imagine. What can I say? I found that particular episode massively forgettable and lacking in distinction. Hell outside of aforementioned arc points and a few character jokes I still couldn't tell you what even happened in it beyond the broadest of strokes.
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Aug 18, 2014 03:10
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mind the walrus posted:Eh I refuse to spoil things for our OP hater here, but let's just say aside from "Blink" there is nothing from Series 2 or 3 that winds up in the "Best Of Doctor Who" collections and for good reason. Edit: NM we'll talk about it when we get there. Lets all cool down on talking about what we do or don't like in the upcoming season. Especially since the expectations he had going into Empty Child hurt his enjoyment a bit. Xenoborg fucked around with this message at 03:16 on Aug 18, 2014 |
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Aug 18, 2014 03:14
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mind the walrus posted:What can I say? I found that particular episode massively forgettable and lacking in distinction. Hell outside of aforementioned arc points and a few character jokes I still couldn't tell you what even happened in it beyond the broadest of strokes. The principal guest performance in S3E11 is remarkable and the tension leading up to the climax is expertly directed. What follows... follows.
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Aug 18, 2014 03:14
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Regy Rusty posted:Are you telling me that in 2005 people were catching those words showing up again and again, speculating about what they meant, and then (and this is the important one!) were satisfied when the answer was revealed? More that all the TV mags (like Radio Times) had articles with speculation as DW being brought back was a big thing so the mystery was treated as such.
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Aug 18, 2014 03:15
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DoctorWhat posted:The principal guest performance in S3E11 is remarkable and the tension leading up to the climax is expertly directed. What follows... follows. Oh yeah. There is that. You saying that did jog my memory a bit. Probably best to drop the line of thought here though since there's nowhere to really take discussion without spoilers. Geokinesis posted:More that all the TV mags (like Radio Times) had articles with speculation as DW being brought back was a big thing so the mystery was treated as such. Also back in 2005 it was still pretty rare to see season-long payoffs to background arcs, especially in shows that didn't have mystery as the central conceit a' la X-Files or Twin Peaks.
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Aug 18, 2014 03:16
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Regy Rusty posted:Are you telling me that in 2005 people were catching those words showing up again and again, speculating about what they meant, and then (and this is the important one!) were satisfied when the answer was revealed? Well the shows popularity sky rocketed in the second season and every major publication was shouting about how Torchwood was the new arc word, so the public at large loving loved it.
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Aug 18, 2014 03:17
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mind the walrus posted:Oh yeah. There is that. You saying that did jog my memory a bit. Probably best to drop the line of thought here though since there's nowhere to really take discussion without spoilers. Yup, we're done here. That's why I switched to episode numbers, too. quote:Also back in 2005 it was still pretty rare to see season-long payoffs to background arcs, especially in shows that didn't have mystery as the central conceit a' la X-Files or Twin Peaks. PriorMarcus posted:Well the shows popularity sky rocketed in the second season and every major publication was shouting about how Torchwood was the new arc word, so the public at large loving loved it. TV was a different place back then. Over NINE YEARS AGO. Wow.
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Aug 18, 2014 03:19
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The sad thing is, I consider Rose a much, much better character in season one than season two, mainly on the strength of her dynamic with Eccleston as opposed to the one with Tennant. Re; arc television in Sci-fi, this premiered two years after Battlestar Galactica. MikeJF fucked around with this message at 03:48 on Aug 18, 2014 |
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Aug 18, 2014 03:21
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Aug 18, 2014 03:22
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DoctorWhat posted:TV was a different place back then. Over NINE YEARS AGO. Wow. Joke if you want, but we're not wrong.
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Aug 18, 2014 03:26
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mind the walrus posted:Joke if you want, but we're not wrong. Not joking. At all.
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Aug 18, 2014 03:33
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This but for people postin spoilers in the thread.
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Aug 18, 2014 03:34
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DoctorWhat posted:Not joking. At all. Fair enough. Intonation is a bitch on the internet.
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Aug 18, 2014 03:35
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Real talk, an episode's quality is inversely proportionate to how much Rose/discussion of Rose it contains. This is true across all of RTD's run.
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Aug 18, 2014 03:36
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mind the walrus posted:Fair enough. Intonation is a bitch on the internet. I'd thought my earlier posts had made my opinions clear but reading it back I can see the  sarcasm in it.
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Aug 18, 2014 03:37
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Doctor Who "The Parting of the Ways" Series 1, Episode 13 What can be said that hasn't been said already? What can be done besides rehashing in seventy-and-seven ways the ineptitude and possible mental sickness that resulted in a script turning a mush-mouthed Cockney chav into YHVH? Precious little, but I'll take a crack at it anyway. I made it clear to Occ that, while Davies' episodes are often stupid, aimless, contradictory and vaguely smug, his finales are downright hazardous in how inane they get, to the point where I half-believed that, by the end of his tenure, he was aiming to take his audience down with him by some kind of infohazard-produced mass stroke. I didn't even remember "The Parting of the Ways" that well before my rewatch, because that image of Rose in her terrible CGI cloud burned all other events out of my head. It renders the rest of the episode irrelevant. But, just because it's irrelevant doesn't mean it ceases to exist, so what happens during that leadup? It was a poor decision on Davies' part to try and make some big epic war-scene on Series 1's shoestring budget, and the action sequences, such as they are, look a bit silly as a consequence. We get a brief CGI scene of thousands of Daleks descending on both Earth and Satellite 5, but only three or four Daleks are actually on-set at any given time and the damage to Earth is shown in cheesy vector-warping on a global map. The individual actors do their best to convey the horror of facing destruction by a gaggle of shrieking tableware; Paterson Joseph's desperate insistence that the Daleks aren't real as they clearly bide their time in gunning him down is a fairly chilling end to such a bit character, and the death of Lynda - shown only as shattering glass, a rush of wind, and Lynda's screaming face - is probably the only part of the whole episode where the minimal budget is used properly. We at least get a hint, here, of what the Daleks are like as a unified force. They're an unstoppable meat grinder that exploits weak spots, hits from every direction at once, and never stops screaming, to boot. Threatening, occasionally, but in this episode mostly ridiculous, because their armed opposition consists of Handsome Jack and a bunch of terrified middle-managers with obviously fake guns. The sight of these people desperately shaking their props to synchronized "bang-bang" sound effects, pulling faces like they're in the trenches of Somme, while the Daleks just kind of sit there and wait for them to finish rather drains the drama out of the whole event. It's the Doctor's lonely tinkering that comes across as the most interesting, as the Dalek Emperor taunts him on the grim nature of what he's about to do. And then there's Rose, yes. Joined again by her mother and her boyfriend/noodle-spined man-servant, she spends the first two acts trying to make dramatic speeches and failing miserably. I don't blame Billie Piper for her lines falling flat (although holy gently caress, her teeth really do look like they're about to rocket out of her head and perforate Mickey's skull during her breakdown in the diner); she clearly puts as much feeling into the lines as she's able, but she comes across as not having the least clue as to what she's saying, and I think it's because her motivation is all muddled. Rose talks about a better life and helping others and taking responsibility, but it's all a thin veneer over one long, breathless scream of "I WANT MY BIG-EARED BOYFRIEND BACK." Rose's infatuation with the Doctor creates this nasty little undercurrent of selfishness under everything that she does, and it doesn't help that she is, once again, dragging her friends and family into her drama while she sits back and reaps all the reward. The scene where she finally drops the penny on what happened with her dad was an effective bit of emotive acting from Piper, but once again, the script fails her, as she said absolutely nothing we don't already know. And then the TARDIS, impenetrable space-time machine par excellence, is pulled apart with a winch and Rose becomes God. Okay. Rad. Cool. Lovin' it! I won't repeat what Occ said. It was an awful scene and I hate everything about it. I also hate that as soon as Rose gets her precious smooch we immediately move into denouement, leaving the razed remains of Earth behind. Oh, okay, the majority of the human race is now gently irradiated and everyone on Satellite Five save Jack is dead too, but Rose got a kiss, so all is well. This isn't even a particularly spergy complaint, it's just a plea, tossed from the year 2014 into the bygone days of 2005, for Davies to actually respect his own loving stakes for a change. You don't turn millions of faceless people into chum just to fuel a conflict that'll get one of your favorite named characters a snog! That's sick! But it's over. Series 1 is over. Eccleston, too, is over, his finishing line - "You were fantastic. Absolutely fantastic. And you know what? ...so was I!" - just as wonderful as all his others, a sign that Nine has, after the considerable angst that's followed him since the Time War, found some measure of peace with himself. One flash of light later, and we're introduced to...squeaky brunette David Bowie? No. Different David. His tenure, and Rusty's, is just getting started. God help us all. Oxxidation fucked around with this message at 04:05 on Aug 18, 2014 |
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Aug 18, 2014 03:42
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30.5 Days posted:Real talk, an episode's quality is inversely proportionate to how much Rose/discussion of Rose it contains. This is true across all of RTD's run. I don't know. Series 4 muddles that at times but as a general rule I think you're onto something. E- going to remove this spoiler because while it's very incidental it was still a dick move. mind the walrus fucked around with this message at 04:15 on Aug 18, 2014 |
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Aug 18, 2014 03:45
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Can people please stop with all the sly references to future happenings in the show? We all know what's coming, have Occ's reactions to look forward to, and I don't want those ruined by him getting spoiled beforehand due to people playing a game of "WE KNOW THINGS YOU DON'T". With RTD, I always got the impression he approached the show like a pantomime, which is a very British way of doing things. America produces big flashy movies around Christmas, in Britain theatres around the country get filled with well known actors dressing up in cheesy costumes pretending to be a fairy or a woodcutter.
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Aug 18, 2014 03:50
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mind the walrus posted:On a spoiler note (seriously don't read this OP) I am going to fill your ears with spiders.
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Aug 18, 2014 03:51
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Oxxidation posted:I am going to fill your ears with spiders. Truth. The only thing I want this thread to spoil is my appetite after remembering some of the terrible stuff about Doctor Who that I forced myself to forget.
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Aug 18, 2014 03:57
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DoctorWhat posted:Yeah! It was a TV event! For reference: quote:"The Parting of the Ways" received overnight ratings of 6.2 million viewers, a 42% audience share and the most-watched programme of the night. That's about a tenth of the UK's total population.  And I definitely remember a lot of talk about what "Bad Wolf" could be leading up to- and I wasn't even watching the show at the time. It was A Thing. MikeJF posted:Re; arc television in Sci-fi, this premiered two years after Battlestar Galactica. And the same year as LOST.
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Aug 18, 2014 04:00
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Oxxidation posted:I am going to fill your ears with spiders. Good it'll help get rid of all these flies.
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Aug 18, 2014 04:01
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Okay, let's stop talking about the future and just say that whatever episode he watches next is the worst ever to lower his expectations. He can't read, right?
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Aug 18, 2014 04:18
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PriorMarcus posted:Well the shows popularity sky rocketed in the second season and every major publication was shouting about how Torchwood was the new arc word, so the public at large loving loved it. I assume that all episodes of Torchwood count towards the goal of this thread and will be reviewed as well?
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Aug 18, 2014 04:57
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