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NieR Occomata
Jan 18, 2009

Glory to Mankind.

*EVERY SINGLE POST ON THIS PAGE FROM THIS POST FORWARD MUST ALSO CONTAIN A DISTINCT REASON WHY THE DALEKS TOTALLY RULE THE CYBERMENS STUPID FUCKIN, KNOCK OFF OF A lovely DALEK, BORING STOMPY FACES*

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Republican Vampire
Jun 2, 2007

Rusty, bless him, is great at some things. I'd seriously watch a Real Housewives style mockumentary where he just writes different Who villains throwing really campy shade.

Also the Cybermen have exactly one good idea going for them and it's been forgotten by people who write for the show for like... forty years. gently caress the Cybermen. gently caress them in the ear. This is basically the hyperdork fan consensus. They are poo poo outside of maybe five stories total. Counting the audio plays and other assorted anorak bullshit.

DoctorWhat
Nov 18, 2011

A little privacy, please?

Toxxupation posted:

*EVERY SINGLE POST ON THIS PAGE FROM THIS POST FORWARD MUST ALSO CONTAIN A DISTINCT REASON WHY THE DALEKS TOTALLY RULE THE CYBERMENS STUPID FUCKIN, KNOCK OFF OF A lovely DALEK, BORING STOMPY FACES*

I'm so happy.

Also the Daleks have had good episodes as recently as this month, whereas the cybermen have sucked since the 60s.

Linear Zoetrope
Nov 28, 2011

A hero must cook

DoctorWhat posted:

I'm so happy.

Also the Daleks have had good episodes as recently as this month, whereas the cybermen have sucked since the 60s.

Hey! There was a good recent Cybermen episode!

I mean, it was totally, 100% in spite of it being a Cybermen episode and almost entirely due to the Doctor's acting, but it was pretty fun.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?

Yeah, Season 2 is very uneven but I love the finale. I also think it's the great ending to a 2-season long character arc for Rose, and about the perfect way to write her out of the show. Her growing obsession with the Doctor and her detachment from the reality of her situation (Jackie warning her about losing her humanity, or the Doctor telling her she can spend the rest of HER life with him, but he can't do the same) meant that there could only be a clean break - she either had to die or be exiled to a time and place it was impossible to return from.

I don't know how much if any of this was deliberate on RTD's part, but it's why I think the first two seasons work so well as a whole, because there IS a continuing background story going on there with Rose and it ended in a very emotionally satisfying way for me.

The Cybermen have a long history of being appallingly misused, with their very promising concept often misused or completely forgotten by the writers of their stories. These Cybus versions in the revival are no different, and it was very satisfying to have the Daleks turn down their offer of an alliance and then proceed to just beat the poo poo out of them with contemptuous ease.

Republican Vampire
Jun 2, 2007

DoctorWhat posted:

Also the Daleks have had good episodes as recently as this month, whereas the cybermen have sucked since the 60s.

Spare Parts and The Flood beg to differ.

Also decent? Are you snorting special K? That episode was a turd from script to workprint to airing.

Republican Vampire fucked around with this message at 06:56 on Sep 7, 2014

DoctorWhat
Nov 18, 2011

A little privacy, please?

Republican Vampire posted:

Spare Parts and The Flood beg to differ.

Also decent? Are snorting special K? That episode was a turd from script to workprint to airing.

Spare Parts and The Silver Turk both own, true. And [that episode] was more than decent. Was it a masterpiece? Maybe, maybe not, but that's for a different thread than this

Republican Vampire
Jun 2, 2007

DoctorWhat posted:

Spare Parts and The Silver Turk both own, true. And [that episode] was more than decent. Was it a masterpiece? Maybe, maybe not, but that's for a different thread than this

True 'nuff, but the point stands: the Cybermen can work in an environment where they can be more thematically interesting than they apparently can be on TV. It's just that TV, for some reason, insists on doing them very, very badly.

Seriously. Didn't they try to say that the Cybermen in Series two were loosely based on Spare Parts? How the poo poo does that work?

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?

Republican Vampire posted:

Seriously. Didn't they try to say that the Cybermen in Series two were loosely based on Spare Parts? How the poo poo does that work?

Both were ostensibly origin stories. The similarities pretty much end there.

howe_sam
Mar 7, 2013

Creepy little garbage eaters

I think, age of steel/doomsday make up the best season finale of the RTD era. There are good elements to the other ones, but then...yeah...stuff...

Senor Tron
May 26, 2006


I'm still firmly in the camp that says the Doctor had no romantic feelings for Rose, but adored her as a friend, and also grew incredibly attached because she was his first companion after the Time War and after all the things he'd seen and done in the war he needed someone who looked at him adoringly and told him he was a good person.

With that being the case, the cheesy timing with the Doctor being cut off just before he could reply was probably intentional on his part. He got to say goodbye to Rose, and acknowledge her emotions, but didn't have to lie to her to spare her feelings.

Jurgan
May 8, 2007

Just pour it directly into your gaping mouth-hole you decadent slut

quote:

I still kinda wish they explained more about the Cult of Skaro- I think a group of Daleks meant to infiltrate and "understand" other opposing races is a rich narrative field that they could've explored, and I was somewhat disappointed when they didn't

Oh, they will. They will. :unsmigghh:

It's funny that the best idea for a Cyberman story came from what might be the worst Cyberman story: Cyberwoman. Yes, it was pretty terrible, but when Captain Jack talks about how the Cybermen take advantage of people's emotions and use the promise of getting their loved ones back to spread... that's the sort of thing that might make a good story, but it never really is developed. Still, I kind of like the whole vampire/zombie way they spread. I like them less when they're shouting "DELETE," because I imagine the writers copy-pasting the word "EXTERMINATE" out of a dalek episode.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?

Senor Tron posted:

I'm still firmly in the camp that says the Doctor had no romantic feelings for Rose, but adored her as a friend, and also grew incredibly attached because she was his first companion after the Time War and after all the things he'd seen and done in the war he needed someone who looked at him adoringly and told him he was a good person.

Agree entirely, and given what we saw in season 1 and 2 I'd say that was the intent. Rose pretty clearly had an end to her story, and it was a good one. Even though they didn't go into the same season long story arc type of things, back in the classic series probably the best companion departures were the ones where they came to some kind or natural-feeling conclusion to their time with the Doctor. The worst were when the actor's contract was up and they suddenly fell in love with some random supporting character and decided to live with them forever.

terrordactle
Sep 30, 2013
If there's one thing I love about Parting of Ways, it's the absolutely brutal way that it shows the Daleks killing everyone. All these side characters were introduced in the episode before, and then the Daleks come and loving murder them all. The scene where the Dalek floats outside the window in space, and you can tell it just yelled "EXTERMINATE" to itself because of the lights changing on its helmet. And then there's the scene where it shows the map of Earth showing the continents shifting as the Daleks bombard the planet.

AndwhatIseeisme
Mar 30, 2010

Being alive is pretty much a constant stream of embarrassment.
Fun Shoe
The Daleks really come across as a force here. You have this build up between the Cybermen, Torchwood, the alternate universe crew, and the Doctor where they're all ready to come to blows with each other, and then 4 Daleks show up and suddenly they're all teaming up to take down these things. The Cybermen pretty much call a time-out on the whole world conquest thing just to stop these screaming dustbins that showed up. And it doesn't even loving matter, because that whole "destroy the Cybermen with one Dalek" thing was clearly not a bluff. The Daleks just steamroll through everything, and then unleash billions more of themselves. If the Doctor hadn't managed to vacuum everything up, this would have been a complete victory for the Daleks, with the Cybermen not even warranting a mention.

Roach Warehouse
Nov 1, 2010


After reading Occ's review, I youtubed that scene where the Cybermen and Daleks trade sick burns.

The thing that most surprised/ delighted me (and I might be reading too much into this) is that when the Daleks activated their communication screen thingie, they referred to it as 'lowering the communications barrier' and similarly when they deactivated it, it was 'raise communications barrier'.

Dalek telecommunications are based around preventing inferior races from communicating without permission.

AndwhatIseeisme
Mar 30, 2010

Being alive is pretty much a constant stream of embarrassment.
Fun Shoe

Roach Warehouse posted:

Dalek telecommunications are based around preventing inferior races from communicating without permission.

It makes sense, since Dalek face-to-face communications are based around preventing inferior races from existing without permission.

Rarity
Oct 21, 2010

~*4 LIFE*~
So yeah. Doomsday. I can't stand this episode. The problem is that it starts off so good. The Dalek/Cybermen burn session is amazing, there's great scenes for Rose's supporting cast and then a bunch more Daleks turn up and things really kick off. And then just as everything's building up to an epic climax... it ends. And the solution to the biggest conflict we've seen in Rusty's era is really as simple as 'press a button'.

And then...

I hate the Ten/Rose dynamic. They have an unhealthy, co-dependent, relationship that encourages them to be horrible self-centred people (see Tooth and Claw, their treatment of Mickey, their appearance in Love and Monsters). The last thing I needed was a really great 2-parter being derailed to devote the final 10 minutes of the season to telling me how they had 'Tru Luv 4Eva'. The same scene is essentially repeated again over and over, playing the exact same emotional beats each time. Remember what I said after Fear Her about Rusty's unearned emotional climaxes? This is the main one I'm talking about. This was a bad relationship that made both characters worse and I was happy to see it end. So the 10 minutes of Rusty climbing out of my TV screen to yell at me to start crying was awful.

Anyway, thank god we're about to have a good Compani-

Oh. :smith:

Escobarbarian
Jun 18, 2004


Grimey Drawer
I'm with Rarity here. The Ten/Rose dynamic was a thousand times more annoying and TRU LOVE-y than it ever was with Nine. But the last two episodes do rule overall they're just ruined at the end by RTD's Rose obsession.

Mob
May 7, 2002

Me reading your posts

Toxxupation posted:

*EVERY SINGLE POST ON THIS PAGE FROM THIS POST FORWARD MUST ALSO CONTAIN A DISTINCT REASON WHY THE DALEKS TOTALLY RULE THE CYBERMENS STUPID FUCKIN, KNOCK OFF OF A lovely DALEK, BORING STOMPY FACES*

I have literally followed the entire thread waiting for you to get to WE WOULD DESTROY THE CYBERMEN WITH ONE DALEK part

I had to suffer through DoctorWhat's "THE LONDON OLYMPICS STUFF HIT TOO CLOSE TO HOME"/"I'm from New York" but oh boy it was worth it

SirSamVimes
Jul 21, 2008

~* Challenge *~


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kq-DhjidQxk

I have been waiting for the opportunity to post this. This is one of the very best of Murray Gold's compositions and it captures the emotion of the scene so incredibly well.

Also cult of skaro supremacy daleks rule cybermen drool

MikeJF
Dec 20, 2003




The thing that I disliked about this episode was the whole AND NOW WE UNLEASH A BILLION GADZILLION DALEKS followed by AND NOW WE VACUUM UP A BILLION GADZILLION DALEKS. Throwing numbers at us somehow made the threat seemed less, because now we knew we needed a Deus Ex Machina to get out of it and we were going to magic it up. Four Daleks that were personally coming for you actually felt more of a worry than the big abstract wave of CGI dots streaming out of the genesis ark and it felt like they were just trying to use numbers to tell us 'oh no' rather than actually showing us that we needed to feel concerned.

That, and honestly by this point I was pretty sick of Rose, so the dramatic OH MY GOD THIS IS HORRIBLE THE DOCTOR HAS LOST HIS WUV separation scene and crying against the wall fell a bit flat for me.

That said, every moment the Daleks were speaking was great. Dalek sass is the best sass.

MikeJF fucked around with this message at 11:32 on Sep 7, 2014

30.5 Days
Nov 19, 2006
Yessss! Christmas came! gently caress cybermen forever.

MikeJF
Dec 20, 2003




30.5 Days posted:

Yessss! Christmas came!

No, that's next week.

BSam
Nov 24, 2012

SirSamVimes posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kq-DhjidQxk

I have been waiting for the opportunity to post this. This is one of the very best of Murray Gold's compositions and it captures the emotion of the scene so incredibly well.



You beat me to it, loving amazing score here.

Soothing Vapors
Mar 26, 2006

Associate Justice Lena "Kegels" Dunham: An uncool thought to have: 'is that guy walking in the dark behind me a rapist? Never mind, he's Asian.
Doomsday is what converted me from an ironic viewer of the show to an actual fan of the show, I think. So good. The Cybermen/Dalek catfight was amazing, and four Daleks grinding the Cybermen (and earth) into dust was terrific.

Rarity posted:

I hate the Ten/Rose dynamic. They have an unhealthy, co-dependent, relationship that encourages them to be horrible self-centred people (see Tooth and Claw, their treatment of Mickey, their appearance in Love and Monsters). The last thing I needed was a really great 2-parter being derailed to devote the final 10 minutes of the season to telling me how they had 'Tru Luv 4Eva'. The same scene is essentially repeated again over and over, playing the exact same emotional beats each time. Remember what I said after Fear Her about Rusty's unearned emotional climaxes? This is the main one I'm talking about. This was a bad relationship that made both characters worse and I was happy to see it end. So the 10 minutes of Rusty climbing out of my TV screen to yell at me to start crying was awful.

Anyway, thank god we're about to have a good Compani-

Oh. :smith:
Yeah. I guess I'm in the camp who thinks the Doctor (at least the Tenth) loved Rose. I get that ~tru who~ fans want the Doctor to continue to view him as an asexual goblin because that's how he's always rolled, but the way Tennant and Piper play it I don't see any other legitimate way to read it.

I'm also of the opinion that their ~tru wuv~ was loving terrible and their relationship was a garbage nightmare.

But yeah, who cares. Dalek/Cybermen catfight. So so good.

MrL_JaKiri
Sep 23, 2003

A bracing glass of carrot juice!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_Wa6bFLzCY

Random Stranger
Nov 27, 2009



Toxxupation posted:

*EVERY SINGLE POST ON THIS PAGE FROM THIS POST FORWARD MUST ALSO CONTAIN A DISTINCT REASON WHY THE DALEKS TOTALLY RULE THE CYBERMENS STUPID FUCKIN, KNOCK OFF OF A lovely DALEK, BORING STOMPY FACES*

Daleks rule because they're the only Doctor Who villain to get a televised story of their own, without the Doctor or any companions in it.

I always had problems with the Cybermen back when I was watching the old series. Back then there were only about three surviving Cybermen stories and I didn't like any of them. The thing is that Cybermen never seemed to live up to their premise. The Daleks got to go around being homocidal tanks so even in bad Dalek stories (and there are a lot of them) you still got the amusement of watching war machines throw temper tantrums.

I'm in the middle of rewatching the old series and the Cybermen were the primary antagonists in Troughton's era. Even there they seem to play off other characters better than actually being interesting themselves.

I remember getting to the cliffhanger for Army of Ghosts and going, "Yes! There's totally going to be some Dalek/Cybermen smack-talk next episode!" And there was. And it was glorious.

30.5 Days posted:

Yessss! Christmas came! gently caress cybermen forever.

I thought they weren't doing Torchwood. :v:

Glenn_Beckett
Sep 13, 2008

When I see a 9/11 victim family on television I'm just like 'Given the existence as uttered forth in the public works of Puncher and Wattmann of a personal God quaquaqua'
I was looking so forward to your seeing the Dalek sass.


YOU ARE BETTER AT DYING

terrordactle
Sep 30, 2013
I think that the Doctor did love Rose because of her naivety. I mean, he just got out of a war that probably lasted hundreds of years that required him to become a soldier rather than a "doctor." A war that drove him, a guy who's already on edge from being nine hundred years old, several amounts of crazy.

But then comes along this goofy, bubbly, stupid girl who thinks he's the most awesome, handsome, dashing hero. Not a grizzled war veteran who probably committing several dozen war crimes in an effort to halt the Dalek advance, including murdering his entire race in a ploy to bring the Daleks down with him.

He had a family in the old series, even though we only ever saw his granddaughter, and he just loving killed them all to save the universe. And some goofy little blonde still treats him like he's worth something, so of course he latches onto her more than he usually would.

Mooseontheloose
May 13, 2003

Something that they explain better as time goes on is that Rose (and then other people) get to see things no human gets to see and they all love it. They are so impressed and happy to see something they haven't seen before. That is probably why after a grueling war he "falls in love" with Rose. She wants to get our of her crappy life and wants to go exploring the universe. The Doctor gets to see the wonder of the universe again because he surrounds himself with people who see the wonderment.

McDragon
Sep 11, 2007

Toxxupation posted:

*EVERY SINGLE POST ON THIS PAGE FROM THIS POST FORWARD MUST ALSO CONTAIN A DISTINCT REASON WHY THE DALEKS TOTALLY RULE THE CYBERMENS STUPID FUCKIN, KNOCK OFF OF A lovely DALEK, BORING STOMPY FACES*

Yeah, definitely. I just love how much character they have when they're done well, which only really happens when you just have a few rather than a million billion. Well, with a few exceptions. They're definitely better in small quantities. Whereas one Cyberman is rubbish, and many Cybermen are also rubbish.



Also all of these are wonderful but I can't remember which ones are from later episodes. Well, there's a nice excuse for me to watch them all.

mind the walrus
Sep 22, 2006

Senor Tron posted:

I'm still firmly in the camp that says the Doctor had no romantic feelings for Rose, but adored her as a friend, and also grew incredibly attached because she was his first companion after the Time War and after all the things he'd seen and done in the war he needed someone who looked at him adoringly and told him he was a good person.

With that being the case, the cheesy timing with the Doctor being cut off just before he could reply was probably intentional on his part. He got to say goodbye to Rose, and acknowledge her emotions, but didn't have to lie to her to spare her feelings.

I think this is really pretty to think, but totally goes against the tone established in most scenes with the Doctor/Rose. Even if you bent over backwards to say that every single one was just seen through "Rose's perspective" or some poo poo that still leaves the question of "why did we only see her perspective then?"

God I hated the Rose/Doctor love dynamic.

Bicyclops
Aug 27, 2004

Toxxupation posted:

  • Dalek: "YOU ARE SUPERIOR IN ONLY ONE RESPECT." Cybermen: "AND WHAT IS THAT?" Dalek: "YOU ARE BETTER AT DYING."
  • Cybermen: "YOU WOULD DESTROY THE CYBERMEN WITH FOUR DALEKS?" DALEK: "WE WOULD DESTROY THE CYBERMEN WITH ONE DALEK."
  • Dalek: "THIS IS NOT WAR. THIS IS PEST CONTROL."
  • Dalek: "DALEKS HAVE NO CONCEPT OF ELEGANCE." Cyberman: "THIS IS OBVIOUS."

This is the great stuff in this episode. They're some of my favorite lines ever delivered by the Daleks. There's just something about them being their mean, genocidal selves to the Cybermen that makes it great. The Cybermen get one zinger in about elegance and it sounds like a caddy, jealous line being delivered by someone whose best men dressed better than he did at his wedding. I love the sheer glee in Nick Briggs's voice when he says they would destroy the Cybermen with one Dalek, and his glee is probably genuine, because he is, without a doubt, the world's biggest fan of the Daleks.

MrL_JaKiri
Sep 23, 2003

A bracing glass of carrot juice!

Bicyclops posted:

and his glee is probably genuine, because he is, without a doubt, the world's biggest fan of the Daleks.

What about Frank Skinner?

Oxxidation
Jul 22, 2007
Doctor Who
"Doomsday"
Series 2, Episode 13

So that was Rose. Bye Rose!

I was lukewarm on Rose in my first writeup, but I grew to loathe her throughout Season 1 and the opening bits of Season 2, for reasons I've already stated - her creator-pet tendencies, her lack of clear motivation beyond "LOVE THAT DOCTOR," her terrible satellite cast, her unsettling bite. My memories of her prior to the rewatch fared even worse, for several reasons, but the one that's most relevant to this post is that my sketchy recollection of Season 2 meant that I missed out on her growing competence, so she was always, in my mind, a glorified tote-bag for the Doctor on his various space adventures. Rose might have finally come into her own as an independent player in the latter half of Season 2, but she still had problems that extended beyond her lack of agency.

I've always felt that the best Companions are contradictory forces, ones whose personalities act against the Doctor, not for him; Companions are all good people at heart, of course, otherwise they wouldn't get to hitch along with the Doctor as the first place, but the great ones have motivations and drives beyond the Doctor's all-around do-gooderism. This makes them more well-rounded characters, of course, but it also allows them to act on their own more (because they're not always playing along with the Doctor) and offer a bit more conflict than the usual run-and-shout sequences that plague so many episodes of this show. Most of all, it benefits the Doctor as well, because when he clashes with his Companions it lets us see how he reacts to unruly traveling partners, lets us examine how his motivations contrast with that of people who don't live for a thousand years thirteen times over, helps illustrate how he sees himself in comparison to the people he's always traveling with, etc, etc. And a contrary Companion can come out as a force of greater good, as well - the Doctor, for all his benevolence, is kind of a bitter maniac at times, and needs someone closer to ordinary life to help pull him down to the level of the people he's supposed to save.

Rose got precious drat little of that. The closest she came was "Father's Day," an excellent episode for all sorts of reasons, one such reason being it was the first and only significant time she ever directly went against the Doctor's orders. How the Doctor reacted to Rose's latest time-stream fuckup, and how he eventually came around to helping everyone in spite of that, was one of the most engrossing bits of the whole episode, and that's all owed to Rose's act of defiance - even if it just came across as the latest mistake in an already-impressive resume full of them. From that point on, though, Rose's obnoxious, slavish devotion to the Doctor is all she's got, even after she learns how to walk down a straight hallway without blowing up half the universe. Even at the end of "Doomsday," she abandons her mother (knowing it would separate them permanently) without even a word of goodbye just so that she can spring back into Ten's waiting arms, leaving Jackie in hysterical tears over the daughter she thinks she'll never see again. And Rose's presence probably wasn't even necessary for the Doctor's little gambit to go off (magically resetting lever or otherwise); she does it out of purely selfish reasons, no matter how hard the script tries to obfuscate that.

Davies is absolutely loath to admit to himself how pathetically unrealistic Rose's promise to follow the Doctor "forever" really is, and his denial comes through strong in these last two episodes. Rose could never keep to her promise because the Doctor is a god damned Grim Reaper in mis-matched sneakers; his Companions either get left behind or they get dead no matter how hard he tries to protect them, because his lifestyle is so dangerous that it's already managed to kill him nine times over. Even if we dismiss the ghoulish thought of a septuagenarian Rose hobbling after the Doctor on his latest space adventure, her lifelong devotion is stupid because it's plainly suicidal, and yet instead of ever mentioning the death-wish aspect of it Davies tries to make vague philosophical objections with zero success. Jackie's argument about how following the Doctor will "change" Rose in "Army of Ghosts" is utterly incoherent and unconvincing, because Davies needed it to be in order to keep convincing himself that Rose's decision wasn't a terrible one; likewise, Rose's tearful explanation to Jackie that the Doctor needs him because he always "does it alone" ignores the fact that the man has already picked up three temp-Companions in her own tenure, but Davies needs to write it to cover up Rose's selfishness. Rose's every motivation to stick with the Doctor out of anything but wibbly puppy-love was a transparent lie on RTD's part, and hoo boy, did it start grinding my gears by the end.

Also annoying was Rose's sendoff, though I admit that anything less would've been uncharacteristically dark for Doctor Who. The shot of the Doctor and Rose pressing their ears on either end of the dimensional wall was a haunting, poignant one (love that soundtrack, by the way) and the farewell on Bad Wolf Bay just dropped a half-gallon of sap on top of it. And I have really, absolutely zero sympathy for Rose's grief. Oh no, she has to live with her reunited family in complete opulence for the rest of her days but she doesn't get her space boyfriend in the end, cry me a loving Stranden. Occupation was of the opinion that she'd "earned" it after saving the world and all, but saving the world isn't something you do expecting a prize at the end. Rose got much more than many other Companions by the end of her run, and definitely more than she deserved, given her spotty performance.

So goodbye, Rose, I hate to see you go but I love to watch you leave. Season 3 beckons, with all the post-breakup drama that such a messy relationship can provide.

Oxxidation fucked around with this message at 18:00 on Sep 7, 2014

Regy Rusty
Apr 26, 2010

Rewatching the second episode I think the reason I remember disliking it was how much I just did not care at all that Rose was leaving. On the contrary I was excited for a change and just wanted to get rid of her already, but instead the end of the episode just drags on and on with a tearful confession of love that I gave zero shits about.

But other than that, I think the rest of the episode was really a lot more fun than I remembered it being.

Jurgan
May 8, 2007

Just pour it directly into your gaping mouth-hole you decadent slut

MikeJF posted:

The thing that I disliked about this episode was the whole AND NOW WE UNLEASH A BILLION GADZILLION DALEKS followed by AND NOW WE VACUUM UP A BILLION GADZILLION DALEKS. Throwing numbers at us somehow made the threat seemed less, because now we knew we needed a Deus Ex Machina to get out of it and we were going to magic it up. Four Daleks that were personally coming for you actually felt more of a worry than the big abstract wave of CGI dots streaming out of the genesis ark and it felt like they were just trying to use numbers to tell us 'oh no' rather than actually showing us that we needed to feel concerned.

There's definitely something to that. The four daleks vs. an army of Cybermen was scary enough, and whoever wins, we know they'd do immense damage to the Earth in the process. Adding in millions more daleks did seem to weaken the threat, paradoxically. One ninja is a deadly threat, but an army of them are cannon fodder. On the other hand, I loved the payoff of "Time Lord technology" meaning the ark is bigger on the inside and can hold millions of daleks. And while the ending is sort of a deus ex machina, at least it relied on the Doctor's intelligence to figure it out rather than someone getting superpowers in the last act.

Craptacular!
Jul 9, 2001

Fuck the DH
If Doctor Who didn't previously have a secondary audience of people who watch it as an alternative to EastEnders, it sure did by this episode.

My smartphone keyboard automatically capitalized EastEnders. gently caress.

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HD DAD
Jan 13, 2010

Generic white guy.

Toilet Rascal

Craptacular! posted:

My smartphone keyboard automatically capitalized EastEnders. gently caress.

That's a hell of a lot better than mine that likes to autocorrect to characters from TNG.

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