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  • Locked thread
Forever_Peace
May 7, 2007

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In as Ground Control (for now).

Yeah, I think it gets tough to use penalized picks for keepers if this year's draft is 22 rounds and next year's draft is 7.

You know, one potential solution could be to have at-cost keepers (so a 3rd rounder this year is kept for a 3rd next year) with a redraft that is technically 22 rounds again - each person just sits out 15 of them. There would be the same number of picks as a full 7-round draft, but people who drop a lot of high-value players get more picks in the early rounds. Upside is old people get to still be useful this year (e.g. you could draft peyton in the first this year, then drop him for an early pick next year) and career-ending injuries are easier for a team to recover from. Downside is the draft order would be really loving strange.

Another solution would be to have all future 7-round drafts be auction, where keeper value is subtracted from starting cash. For example, starting pool of $500 for each team, minus beersheets value of every player on opening day for 12-team 0.5 ppr.

^^^^ edit: you beat me to the first suggestion, so consider me a vote in favor.

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Forever_Peace
May 7, 2007

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I don't see anything about return yards in the scoring settings. We counting them?

Forever_Peace
May 7, 2007

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I tried sending out a couple of emails (through the site) a few days back about exploring some pick trades, but I haven't heard anything back. Did they go through? I think I sent one to Ben Nevis and Marshmallow Blue, who are far enough from my 6th spot to make for some interesting possibilities. Drop me a line on the site if you're interested.

Forever_Peace
May 7, 2007

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Marshmallow Blue posted:

Sorry, I was on vacation and didn't check much of any internet for about a week. I did receive mine however,
Unfortunately NFL.com only allows draft trades within the season and not before the draft.

Hm... I actually wouldn't advise trading picks in-season, because we settled on a pick order determined by keepers and drops, which we won't know until a few weeks prior to next year's FA/rookie draft. The time to trade picks for next year is after the FA pool (and keepers) has been decided, but before the draft, which is the situation we are actually in this week already.

In any case, I think on nfl.com, it's typical for the commish to manually carry out pick trades by editing the draft board (under "manage" -> "customize draft board"). Is this something you are willing (and have time) to do this year if people can agree on trades before the draft? Feel free to set a deadline as commish.

Forever_Peace
May 7, 2007

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Great, thanks for being game for the manual pick trades! Speaking of which, send me an email if you want to conspire about picks together and make everybody else jealous.

I did have a question, however, about...

Marshmallow Blue posted:

The other thing I ran into is for next years keepers/ draft. All 15 Keepers for each team will be marked as rounds 1-15 and the draft will be rounds 16-22. This might make trading picks a bit easier next season as you can trade a pick for a player and not worry about keeping two players in round 10 or what have you.

This isn't actually the same thing that was decided previously. NFL.com defaults to a rookie/FA combined snake draft in keeper leagues. To keep old guys relevant, it seemed like we decided earlier in the thread to determine FA/R picks by the original draft value of roster cuts, rather than do a random keeper draft. So, for example, let's say I take Tom Brady 6th overall, but he decides to retire at the end of the year to focus on his modeling career. I decide not to keep him. What used to be Brady on my roster now becomes the #6 "pick value" for the FA/R draft. Then lets say that everybody keeps every other player until Marshawn Lynch at #40 overall, who loses 3 toes to escaped zoo animals. #6, as the earliest unkept player, gets me 1.1 in the FA/R draft, and Lynch's #40 translates into 1.2. I pickup some rookie at 1.1, who now inherits the #6 pick value spot. This is essentially what "keep at value" means, right?

This does mean that an owner can (and will) have multiple picks in a round, and that the draft order will be all over the place, but you only get high picks by sacrificing a player picked highly this year.

That's how I understood our discussion, anyways. I thought it made for an interesting draft strategy, and I've been having a lot of fun trying to figure out my pick order for this year's startup.

It's not too late to settle on a snake draft determined by record or something for the FA/R draft, or even to do separate Rookie and FA drafts, but it's close. The keeper rules impact the startup strategy, and we all need time to plan.

Forever_Peace
May 7, 2007

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So Marshmallow Blue and I settled on a pick trade earlier today:

My 4th for his 6th, and my 12th for his 8th.

Forever_Peace
May 7, 2007

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Ben Nevis posted:

So when is this regretting supposed to start?

For me, it was somewhere around the time I drafted Chris Johnson with the pick I traded away my 4th round for. Also, I think I drafted Troy Niklas?

Forever_Peace
May 7, 2007

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Ben Nevis posted:

I'm positive I drafted C.J. Fiedorowicz. Pretty sure he's going to be the next Gronk. That seems probable.

I actually really like Fiedorowicz. I just picked him up in the other SA dynasty league. Dude has potential. In fact, I cut Niklas around the same time for him.

Forever_Peace
May 7, 2007

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Also I got handy email from nfl.com predicting that will finish dead last this year with a 3-10 record. It says I should pick up Matt Schaub to improve my team. And Jerricho Cotchery.

Forever_Peace
May 7, 2007

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Can we give a trophy for best draft picks? These are some of my favorites:

1) Stephen Gostkowski, 10th Round (of 22)
2) In the 22nd round, Wuntvor decides he'd rather take Tim Tebow than Ryan Fitzpatrick or Matt Cassel. Probably actually the right call.
2) Anquan Boldin is finally taken in the 14th round, pick 164
3) Azhais takes Storm Johnson four rounds too early, just to spite me. (damnit I knew I shouldn't have said anything in the other thread until after this draft)
4) Heath Miller is finally taken with pick 197. Heath Miller is a top-15 TE this year. Picks directly ahead of him include CJ Anderson and Mohamed Sanu.
5) EJ Manuel is taken in the 19th round. Behind Kirk Cousins and Brock Osweiler.
6) Harold Kooplowski rounds out a solid draft with Jermichael Finley, who is not on any team at all and recently had the vertebrae in his spine surgically fused together.

Forever_Peace
May 7, 2007

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Hold the phone. Are you guys seriously discussing changes to player value right AFTER the draft? I thought using the huge keeper allotment instead of an outright dynasty system was intentional. Balancing picks versus youth was an interesting puzzle (and was certainly different from other leagues), and we all agreed to it.

I mean, I traded away a 4th and took Harvin in the 5th specifically because of the quirky keeper rules (not mention the influence it had on the draft order I set for about 300 players). Changing the rules after the fact is incredibly unsportsmanlike, and seriously cripples my team.

Look, I'm fine with an honest dynasty league, and don't want to spoil anyone's fun, but the time to make those decisions is before the draft, not after.

In the very least, I propose that the first 20-30 picks this coming year still be determined by the overall pick value of players dropped. That should be easy enough to set manually, and provides a transition into a new system that is less grossly unfair.

Forever_Peace
May 7, 2007

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Marshmallow Blue posted:

Ok. I think i'm seeing the clash between my planned system, and adding pick trading in that fixing one thing would throw the other off and vice versa.

Ive come up with a few options. We need to decide on one of them.

A: 15 keepers in general and a 7 round draft next year

B: keeper cost: each round has a certain point value (round one would be more pts than two) and you get an allotment of points to keep as many players as you can afford based on keeping higher and lower rounds. Then the draft would be snaking from worst to best record.

I've been thinking more about this, and I'm coming around to the idea of simplifying our future drafts with a straightforward 7-round system.

Even though changing player values after the draft is a bit lame, it seems like the current system wasn't really all that clear, and everybody took wildly divergent approaches to the startup.

What strikes me as best for the long-term health of the league is moving to an intuitive system that everybody understands.

So here's my proposal, based on Blue's choice A above.

quote:

Yearly FA/R (free agent and rookie) drafts will take place within one month of the first game of the season. Pick order will be determined by the following criteria (using the records from the previous season), in order:
1) Regular season record (from least wins to most wins)
2) Playoff record (from least wins to most wins)
3) Head to Head record (from least wins to most wins)
4) Overall points scored by starters during the regular season (from least to most)

Pick order will be maintained through each of the seven rounds (emulating an NFL draft, as opposed to a snake draft). The commissioner must calculate and post the draft order within 1 month of the nfl regular season's last game. Free agent moves freeze after the fantasy championship game has completed, and remain restricted until immediately after the draft has completed for the following season.

At least 1 week prior to the draft, keepers must be declared. Owners may not keep less than 15 players.

Pick trades must be declared at least 24 hours prior to the draft. Pick trades may be made mid-season (prior to the determination of draft order) by round, and may not be "protected" or include other additional clauses. Pick trades can be made for the two nearest drafts, but not beyond.

Dropping a player prior to the draft with the intention that the he should be drafted by a particular owner is considered collusion. Trading players with the intention of temporarily "holding" a player for another owner through the declaration of keepers is considered collusion. Violations of these collusion rules will result in the player(s) in question being dropped by the commissioner to the waiver wire, following a majority-rules vote.

I proposed an nfl-style draft rather than a snake draft in order to maintain league parity better while this funky transition away from the startup draft shakes out. No post-draft rule change this drastic is really "fair" per se, but taking active steps to maintain a competitive league strikes me as an important way to combat the negative consequences of overturning everyone's startup draft strategies.

What do you think?

Forever_Peace
May 7, 2007

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Honore_De_Balzac posted:

It turns out I didn't draft enough RBs if Bernard, and Woodhead don't start playing right. I'm ready and willing to be trade raped if anyone has some extras.

e. Haha please no literal rape. I'm still a shrewd business man.

Sorry, I think I just suck at valuing players. I went and actually looked up the adps of my initial trade and only then realized how hilariously bad my offer was. Your response seems pretty fair but I accidentally deleted it when I closed the window.

I'll try again when I actually have some time tonight. Thanks for not responding with your kicker for Lacy!

Forever_Peace
May 7, 2007

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Honore_De_Balzac posted:

Haha I figured you took my statement too literally. Thanks for giving me a look.

Poked around a bit, but I'm not sure I see a trade here that benefits us both. I just have way too many upside lottery tickets at RB to sacrifice "right now" RB depth. Sorry!

quote:

My team is in a sure fine mess at the moment. With Doug Martin being a regrettable choice, I'm starting Darren Sproles because I don't want to start Moreno and Miller. Edit: gently caress it. GO HURNS

FWIW I think your team looks great (other than a really inappropriate number of quarterbacks). You had 4 RBs break 10 points last week (with Morris finishing close to that with 9), have 3 solid WRs and a great pickup in Hurns, and a niners defense that scored 20 points. I didn't like my chances last week until Matt Ryan decided to supernova.

Really though - I'd deal Sims for the right offer.

Forever_Peace
May 7, 2007

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Oh my god Blue you poor bastard.

Injuries to Moreno, DJax, Cameron, and Martin. Ouch!

Forever_Peace
May 7, 2007

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Honore_De_Balzac posted:

My team imploded and it doesn't look good for my futures.

Well I may have gone a little heavy on future "sleepers", so if you want one of the 5 players I have that weren't even on an active roster this week, hit me up.

Edit: holy poo poo kettle you are going to win this league for years. :stare:

Forever_Peace fucked around with this message at 02:52 on Sep 23, 2014

Forever_Peace
May 7, 2007

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The lineup currently stomping all the gently caress over this week:

Dontrel Dolphins
B. Roethlisberger - 27.26
M. Asiata - 29.50
K. Robinson - *yet to play*
A. Brown - 31.38
T. Hilton - 16.00
D. Hopkins - 14.90
D. Allen - 11.30
T. Richardson - 17.90

:stare:

Did this become a calvinball league when I wasn't looking?

Either that or Wuntvor is dabbling in sorcery...

edit: I'd just like to reiterate that a running core of Matt Asiata and Trent Richardson just went 200 yards with 4 touchdowns.

Forever_Peace fucked around with this message at 01:21 on Sep 29, 2014

Forever_Peace
May 7, 2007

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Hey Blue,

Just wanted to make sure you saw that the recent trade between me and Azhais involved picks. It let Azhais include the picks as part of the trade offer, but you should be aware of the swap just in case you need to fiddle with things by hand this year.

I gave my 2nd for Azhais' 4th.

edit: Azhais, the player I'm dropping will probably be locked until midweek, so my guess is that it will go through then, not Monday.

Forever_Peace
May 7, 2007

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N: Percy Harvin is now a Jet, so he's done for the week. The news broke the day after LaFell already played, during Jordan Matthews bye.

V: Welcome to my starting lineup Cody Latimer.

Forever_Peace
May 7, 2007

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Marshmallow Blue posted:

Well Geno smith turned out to be a bum prospect. But I needed to thin out my Qbs anyways.

I honestly wouldn't cut bait quite yet. Geno had a 71% completion rate his senior year, compared to a 56% rate with these awful jets receivers. They've been steadily building an O-line that should be pretty good for years to come, but at the cost of receivers. Here is the entire list of WRs that the Jets have drafted over the past 6 years:

Jalen Saunders
Shaquelle Evans
Quincy Enunwa
Stephen Hill
Jordan White
Jeremy Kerley
Scotty McKnight

I'd give him another year with Decker and Harvin, and see if the Jets actually draft a decent WR this year.

edit: whelp, didn't see that I was too late. Oh well!

Forever_Peace
May 7, 2007

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Wuntvor, the number of points the two of us are scoring against one another is approaching some pretty absurd levels.

There's a chance we combine for 350.

And yet, Kettle is still projected to beat both of us. :stare:

edit: also, so much for Geno being worth holding. You may have made the right call Marshmallow. Throwing for 5 yards and 3 interceptions might be the worst statline I have ever seen for a starting quarterback.

Forever_Peace fucked around with this message at 03:15 on Oct 27, 2014

Forever_Peace
May 7, 2007

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Final combined tally: 368

Forever_Peace
May 7, 2007

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KettleWL posted:

I'm really bad at making team names, but I seem to have done pretty well at actually picking the team.

And opting not to trade Golden Tate, that looks like a good move in retrospect

Stat corrections will probably ruin this, but if we had played each other this week, we would have exactly tied, right down to the hundredth of a point: 173.68 to 173.68.

Forever_Peace
May 7, 2007

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Azhais posted:

I'd like to protest last place not even setting a lineup :colbert:

MysteryPlayerX didn't either, so Mike Evans exploded on his bench while bye-week Justin Forsett took up the flex spot.

I had the high score last week by almost 30 points, but that one switch would have had me beat!

Forever_Peace
May 7, 2007

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Marshmallow Blue posted:

If last place and mystery player continue to not set lineups we can look for replacements come next season. If they are in a playoff viable spot maybe this season.

Sounds good to me.

If Mystery makes the playoffs and is still MIA, I vote you start setting his lineups based on the site's own projections. Leave him be for the regular season though.

Forever_Peace
May 7, 2007

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Honore_De_Balzac posted:

So, how do our tie breakers work, because I have no idea how I'm in the playoffs.

Welp, it certainly looks like it ain't total points, head to head, or "overall" win-loss. Maybe divisional record? Does anybody know where to find that?

FWIW I like your team and think it probably "belongs" in the playoffs anyways. It'd just be good to know how it got there!

Forever_Peace
May 7, 2007

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Honore_De_Balzac posted:

In the settings it says Head to Head.

I thought I smoked your team a few weeks ago?

(pun intentional)

Forever_Peace
May 7, 2007

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Honore_De_Balzac posted:

You did if you are Groundcontrol. I lost to you, and I beat Jerry in our matchup. In your matchup with Jerry he beat you....I have no idea. You got screwed though. You have the most points for, and against.

e. I have more against.

Oh, no that makes sense! I forgot that "head to head" doesn't actually mean how I do against just you, but rather how all four of us 7-6 teams fared against one another overall. I beat your team, but that was it, while you and Harold Cooplowski (Frogout) must have each won two games against the other 7-6 teams.

Seems fair to me. And honestly, pick 1.6 sounds pretty good for next year!

Forever_Peace
May 7, 2007

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Harold Cooplowski posted:

I have no idea how I did this. Penn is probably gonna crush me.

What's the story with these custom titles? I'm seeing them everywhere.

Forever_Peace
May 7, 2007

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Your SA avatar

Forever_Peace
May 7, 2007

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I'm a little salty about barely missing the playoffs now, because I would have destroyed everybody in the bracket over the past two weeks.

Probably in order to lose in the finals, naturally.

Forever_Peace
May 7, 2007

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wooooooo an award!

Congrats to Holding Penn. That was a pretty good run.

Since literally all of the pick trades flowed through me, here's the complete list.

Holding Penn 1st round pick goes to GroundControl
KettleWL 1st round pick goes to GroundControl
GroundControl 2nd round pick goes to JerryJones
JerryJones 4th round pick goes to Holding Penn
GroundControl 5th round pick goes to KettleWL

Forever_Peace
May 7, 2007

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Just wanted to check in and see when offseason trades open up again? After the superbowl?

Forever_Peace
May 7, 2007

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In. And itching to trade. Really want to keep Stevie now.

There a way for us to trade prior to fantasy draft?

Forever_Peace
May 7, 2007

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Just wanted to check in and see what the plan was for scheduling the draft this season. Me weekends are starting to fill up and I it'd be nice to get something squared away.

Also: please god somebody trade me a WR1. I have multiple first round draft picks, I have a couple of young RBs I'd be willing to deal (LMurray, Hyde, Kadeem), goon favorite ASJ, some young WRs (Latimer, Lee, Wright), hell I'd even entertain offers for Lacy. I just really want a stud WR.

Forever_Peace
May 7, 2007

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Azhais posted:

So I gotta ask, am I the only one that doesn't see any rosters at all on the site? I'm looking at the 2015 home that nfl.com sent me mail about months ago.

No I don't see any either. You can see who is on YOUR team by going to the keeper screen. I actually kind of like NFL.com (mostly for the slick draft center), but their offseason options seem downright bizarre.

Forever_Peace
May 7, 2007

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Hey Blue,

Sorry to make more work for ya, but I have a few requests! Can we possibly:
1) Figure out keepers a week or so before the draft so that we have time to set our big board without literally having to rank the entire player universe (it's the "Keeper Lock Date" league setting).
2) Maybe email the owners that haven't responded yet? Deadline is tomorrow and I think we have a few left to respond...
3) Update the first post with the draft date, keeper lock date, and current list of returning owners?

Thanks! I'm needy.

Forever_Peace
May 7, 2007

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Awesome, thanks.

Forever_Peace
May 7, 2007

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Welcome!

I hope you enjoy spam because I am going to send you roughly a trade offer per day for one of dem wide receivers once the season starts.

You may think I'm joking but the other folks here can attest: I'm really not.

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Forever_Peace
May 7, 2007

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Hey man Brown/TY/Nuke/AP/Ingram ought to keep you competitive for a year or two while you pick up some young rbs. This team finished 4th last year.

Gobias' new team on the other hand somehow managed to finish 9th despite having a WR core of OBJ/Kelvin/Evans. That team is going to be a monster after this year's draft.

  • Locked thread