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Mantis42 posted:If they build it off based of the SMG reading of the Capt America and Iron Man relationship, it will probably be better than the comic book version. What is the SMG reading, of Captain America and Iron Man's relationship? Arglebargle III posted:Can someone just link me to the fascist deconstruction already? All this discussion of the movie and its genre is boring. This movie celebrates the liberal/multicultural restrained-capitalist system that Pacific Rim violently rejects. Harime Nui fucked around with this message at 09:53 on Oct 25, 2014 |
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Oct 25, 2014 05:58
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Gyges posted:The idea of Civil War is a good one, and at the beginning of the event is was mostly executed well. The original idea may have been interesting, the problem is that the Marvel movies are very good at ignoring any interesting ideas in order to make things as simple and unambiguous as possible. We're approaching a police state wherein we surrender our freedom in the name of security? That could be troubling. Luckily, it was all the fault of a Neo-Nazi hidden inner circle, and not reasonable people dealing with a situation with no clear right or wrong answers. I mean, then we'd have to question something in our everyday lives. The closest you have to a movie with a reasonable villain is the first Thor, and Loki is a manipulative genocidal power hungry weasal. And now you expect them to write a movie that deals with the ambiguity of superpowered individuals doing more than punching clear villains?
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Oct 25, 2014 06:51
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A movie about Steve Rogers and Tony Stark having a violent disagreement about how and to what extent superheroes should cooperate with the gubmint would fit in the general trajectory and themes of the MCU series to date.
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Oct 25, 2014 07:22
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Fulchrum posted:We're approaching a police state wherein we surrender our freedom in the name of security? That could be troubling. Luckily, it was all the fault of a Neo-Nazi hidden inner circle, and not reasonable people dealing with a situation with no clear right or wrong answers. I mean, then we'd have to question something in our everyday lives. Except that Winter Soldier explicitly ends with "Destroy SHIELD too, it's just as bad". Not "Well, it's just mean old Hydra that was the problem, now lets get back to business!". The entire point of that movie is that literal, actual Nazis could so thoroughly infiltrate the US Government because of how secretive and fascist we had gotten. The main bad guy says he learned his world view from Fury. When things go to poo poo and Hydra drops the hammer they are exactly as ruthless as they were as SHIELD agents. And it all happened because people wanted it to. Not shadowy men in shadowy rooms. Regular people. An evil nazi brain in a computer tells the heroes that their master plan for success was "We just waited and everyone became fascists on their own, it was pretty loving sweet!". Do you need a movie to actually break the fourth wall and have the characters come out of the screen to beat the poo poo out of the audience watching it and go "YOU DID THIS! YOOOOOOOOOOOOOU!" to get a point?
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Oct 25, 2014 15:24
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Boogaleeboo posted:Except that Winter Soldier explicitly ends with "Destroy SHIELD too, it's just as bad". Not "Well, it's just mean old Hydra that was the problem, now lets get back to business!". The entire point of that movie is that literal, actual Nazis could so thoroughly infiltrate the US Government because of how secretive and fascist we had gotten. The main bad guy says he learned his world view from Fury. When things go to poo poo and Hydra drops the hammer they are exactly as ruthless as they were as SHIELD agents.
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Oct 25, 2014 15:33
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Pander posted:MCU seems to have Rogers and Stark agreeing about the state of national security. So maybe the cinematic CW won't be Stark vs Rogers? There's really not a strong enough dividing point between them given the films to see them fighting. There might be room for Stark to change depending on fallout from Iron Man 3 and Avengers 2, but I don't think there really is for Rogers, who should be a fundamentalist (in a good way!).
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Oct 25, 2014 16:01
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If Stark is to suddenly become a government guy who wants to rein in superhumans ala Civil War, it would be inconsistent with his behavior in the Iron Man movies. Stark became Iron Man precisely to rebel against the system and fight bad guys on his own terms and against the wishes of the US government. He stubbornly refused to sell out; the government literally had to confiscate one of his suits to get their Iron Patriot. Fury decided he was too much of a loose cannon to be anything more than a consultant to SHIELD. Going by the movies, I'd expect Captain America to sooner side with the government than Tony Stark. On another, an adaptation of the Civil War arc seems unlikely because there are simply too few superhumans in the MCU. Aside from the Avengers themselves, how many superhumans are there on Earth? It's hinted that Dr Strange is active, and there's the Abomination from the Hulk movie. I don't follow Agents of SHIELD, but I hear there are a handful cropping up there. It's not like America has a big superhuman problem. Baron Bifford fucked around with this message at 17:00 on Oct 25, 2014 |
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Oct 25, 2014 16:31
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Fulchrum posted:We're approaching a police state wherein we surrender our freedom in the name of security? That could be troubling. Luckily, it was all the fault of a Neo-Nazi hidden inner circle, and not reasonable people dealing with a situation with no clear right or wrong answers. I mean, then we'd have to question something in our everyday lives. SHIELD on it's own was working towards a police state, Hydra just noticed and decided to tag along. The only conflict between Hydra and SHIELD was that SHIELD wanted to stop at around 9 while Hydra wanted to go all the way to 10. It was made pretty clear that SHIELD was only the good guy in comparison to other worse guys and that it was irredeemable in the end not just because of Hydra but because of it's own actions. Captain America had been questioning SHIELD's actions ever since he was unfrozen, well before the Hydra reveal. Baron Bifford posted:If Stark is to suddenly become a government guy who wants to rein in superhumans ala Civil War, it would be inconsistent with his behavior in the Iron Man movies. Stark became Iron Man precisely to rebel against the system and fight bad guys on his own terms and against the wishes of the US government. He stubbornly refused to sell out; the government literally had to confiscate one of his suits to get their Iron Patriot. Fury decided he was too much of a loose cannon to be anything more than a consultant to SHIELD. Going by the movies, I'd expect Captain America to sooner side with the government than Tony Stark. Registration wasn't so much Stark siding with the government as the government siding with Stark and Richards. With the trailers for Avengers 2 showing Hulk Buster armor and, my inference from it at least, seeming to hint that Ultron was an AI created by Stark as a fail safe he's going full Batman in Tower of Babel. He's also shown repeatedly that he's not against working with the government, only against being told what to do by the government. If he's head of registration that probably would put him in a Fury level position where he doesn't actually have to listen to the government, which could fulfill Stark's wishes. Gyges fucked around with this message at 16:44 on Oct 25, 2014 |
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Oct 25, 2014 16:36
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Baron Bifford posted:If Stark is to suddenly become a government guy who wants to rein in superhumans ala Civil War, it would be inconsistent with his behavior in the Iron Man movies. Stark became Iron Man precisely to rebel against the system and fight bad guys on his own terms and against the wishes of the US government. He stubbornly refused to sell out; the government literally had to confiscate one of his suits to get their Iron Patriot. Fury decided he was too much of a loose cannon to be anything more than a consultant to SHIELD. Going by the movies, I'd expect Captain America to sooner side with the government than Tony Stark. The whole theme of the Iron Man movies, though, is Stark learning that stubbornly doing everything himself is a mission doomed to failure that will destroy him in the process. It's a recurring beat that Stark has a responsibility to the world as a genius and billionaire. Noblesse oblige, you might deem it, but Stark never beats his enemies on his own. He always has help, and more than that the climax of every Iron Man film is Stark relying on someone else in order to kill the villain. Pepper kills Iron Monger and the Mandarin, not Stark, and it's a combined beam attack with Rhody that kills Vanko. I think it's a very good arc for Stark to end up as either a government official or a quasi-official director and superhero organization backer in Captain America 3, either way an authority that Cap would naturally be very distrustful of after CA2. You have the egotistical loner who has finally accepted his responsibility to the world inevitably clashing with the heartfelt idealist who has just learned a bitter lesson about how power corrupts.
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Oct 25, 2014 16:42
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Cythereal posted:The whole theme of the Iron Man movies, though, is Stark learning that stubbornly doing everything himself is a mission doomed to failure that will destroy him in the process. It's a recurring beat that Stark has a responsibility to the world as a genius and billionaire. Noblesse oblige, you might deem it, but Stark never beats his enemies on his own. He always has help, and more than that the climax of every Iron Man film is Stark relying on someone else in order to kill the villain. Pepper kills Iron Monger and the Mandarin, not Stark, and it's a combined beam attack with Rhody that kills Vanko. Cap, on the other hand, likes to take orders and is all about duty. He joined the Army so that he could beat up fascists. After he got thawed from the ice, he takes a job at SHIELD, doing missions for Fury. Whilst Fury is wary of Stark, he thinks Cap is solid. Yes, there might be ways to make the two characters fit the roles their comic counterparts had in Civil War as they are by no means rigid, but that's not direction the movies have been taking them in. Baron Bifford fucked around with this message at 16:58 on Oct 25, 2014 |
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Oct 25, 2014 16:51
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Baron Bifford posted:On another, an adaptation of the Civil War arc seems unlikely because there are simply too few superhumans in the MCU. Aside from the Avengers themselves, how many superhumans are there on Earth? It's hinted that Dr Strange is active, and there's the Abomination from the Hulk movie. It's not like America has a big superhuman problem. That's kinda the point of Agents of SHIELD. They've been blowing through tons of low to mid level superhumans in just the last season and a half. Off the top of my head, they've had Deathlok class cyborgs, a guy hopping between dimensions to teleport, Asgardians who aren't Thor, Blizzard (with actual powers, not a suit), Absorbing Man, some guy with dark energy powers, whatever the hell Skye's dad is, they're going to pop out Graviton one of these days, hell, whatever the hell Skye herself is. And that's just a fraction of the superhumans that SHIELD knew about before they got blown up in Winter Soldier. Not to mention the fact that most of the ones SHIELD had locked up got busted loose when Garrett and Ward broke open the Fridge near the end of last season. What I'm saying, then, is that there are a load of people out there with powers. True, few of them are as nasty as the Avenger's heavy hitters. But a lot of them are more than cops or even army types can handle, and I can see the US government deciding to try and regulate them, especially after SHIELD, who were supposed to be taking care of it for them, turned out to be full of Nazis.
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Oct 25, 2014 17:06
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Cool, I think it's time I watched the show.
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Oct 25, 2014 17:18
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Baron Bifford posted:You're missing the point. Stark doesn't like taking orders from the government, even if there's a lot of money and power to be had or sanctions to avoid. So what if he teams up with a buddy or two when fighting a villain? That's not the same as signing up. Stark is a maverick. I disagree about Stark. I think he started as a maverick, but Avengers and the Iron Man movies have been developing him into a genuine leader and team player. If Cap hadn't destroyed SHIELD in CA2, I'd have expected Avengers 2 or some later movie to end with Stark becoming SHIELD's new director. If not Secretary of Defense.
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Oct 25, 2014 17:18
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SHIELD director? Secretary of Defense? That would seem like a big leap from the low esteem Fury and the government had of him in Iron Man 2.
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Oct 25, 2014 17:33
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Baron Bifford posted:SHIELD director? Secretary of Defense? That would seem like a big leap from the low esteem Fury and the government had of him in Iron Man 2. And between then and the present in the Marvel verse Stark cured his palladium poisoning, made peace with his daddy issues, learned the value of self-sacrifice and teamwork that Captain America emphasized in Avengers, got over his PTSD from the events of that movie, and generally reads to me as a far more mature individual now. That and the main government official who belittled and antagonized Stark turned out to be a Hydra believer and thus most likely had other reasons for trying to shut Stark down.
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Oct 25, 2014 17:37
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OK, I guess it's possible, but I still think it's unlikely. It's a stretch.
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Oct 25, 2014 17:41
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After Age of Ultron, the civil war will be over wether Artificial Intelligence should have the same rights as human beings. Tony's the north, Steve is the south.
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Oct 25, 2014 17:43
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Baron Bifford posted:Cool, I think it's time I watched the show. I endorse this proposal and now regret some vaguely spoilery stuff in my original post.  Oh well, the other thing you should know is that it's kind of a grind getting through the first half of the first season. They were still trying to figure out what kind of a show they wanted to be, and some of the experimentation didn't pan out. They pretty much get their poo poo together by the second half of the season, and once the big reveal from Winter Soldier hits they take off running and, five episodes into season two, haven't stopped yet.
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Oct 25, 2014 17:44
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Baron Bifford posted:OK, I guess it's possible, but I still think it's unlikely. It's a stretch. A stretch, sure, but these are superhero movies. I feel it's a natural conclusion to Stark's arc over the movies. Avengers 2 backs it up. The Iron Legion is Stark's attempt to put together a superhero force of his own design to spare himself and his friends from having to go into the line of fire. I find it easy enough to imagine Stark's catastrophic error with Ultron being what pushes him over the edge to getting out of the direct superhero business entirely in favor of putting his real gifts, his intellect and charisma, to work.
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Oct 25, 2014 17:45
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Cythereal posted:A stretch, sure, but these are superhero movies. I feel it's a natural conclusion to Stark's arc over the movies.
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Oct 25, 2014 17:46
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Baron Bifford posted:What is this "Iron Legion" you speak of? gently caress it, I've been trying hard to avoid any spoilers for Avengers 2. You know Ultron and his army of drones? They start as Stark dusting off Pym's idea - if not his computer prototype - of an AI that can control multiple suits, deciding that he can make it work, and creating an Iron Legion of drones based on Iron Man suits with an AI to control them. Stark's idea is to save himself and his friends from needing to put on their suits and save the day by creating an autonomous system to do it for them. Needless to say, things go horribly wrong and we get Ultron.
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Oct 25, 2014 17:50
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OK, I was kinda guessing something of this sort after Iron Man 3 and the A2 trailer, but now SHUT UP SHUT UP SHUT UP!
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Oct 25, 2014 18:01
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That's all I know about the plot of A2, so fair enough. 
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Oct 25, 2014 18:02
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In a perfect world, Ultron's first body will be the robot arm from Iron Man 1-3. Has a good clip of the intro title been released? I seriously want to watch that nonstop.
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Oct 25, 2014 18:14
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Arglebargle III posted:Can someone just link me to the fascist deconstruction already? All this discussion of the movie and its genre is boring. Urgh, all this discussion of cinema.
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Oct 25, 2014 20:08
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Is anyone going out on Black Friday to buy the Cassette version of the soundtrack? I've already called some of the local record shops and most of them say they aren't getting any copies.
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Nov 17, 2014 17:39
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Might have to Buy a DVD for the first time in forever... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sqWX0EkdOYo
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Nov 18, 2014 22:44
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Finally got to see this. Loved it. I was REALLY impressed by Bradly Cooper as Rocket. I was expecting just kind of... Bradly Cooper doing his voice so I wasn't expecting anything special. But he gave Rocket a really distinct voice and he totally won me over. I assume Guardians themselves aren't being planned to go beyond their movies? I suppose Avengers and GotG are a bit too different in tone to really crossover, but I want a scene like Captain America and Rocket Raccoon fighting side by side so bad. Plus, Starlord would have a reason to go back to earth!
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Nov 19, 2014 02:59
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Macaluso posted:Finally got to see this. Loved it. I was REALLY impressed by Bradly Cooper as Rocket. I was expecting just kind of... Bradly Cooper doing his voice so I wasn't expecting anything special. But he gave Rocket a really distinct voice and he totally won me over. It's confirmed that Avengers 3 is about Thanos, so I'd be confident there will be some kind of interaction.
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Nov 19, 2014 03:34
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Pretty sure that A3, being the culmination of the MCU, is gonna be centered around all of the characters interacting to some extent.
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Nov 19, 2014 04:23
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Dexo posted:Might have to Buy a DVD for the first time in forever... Here's a video with the full gag reel http://siper-art.tumblr.com/post/102961026284/gag-reel-of-guardians-of-the-galaxy I love that Groot is (I assume) Vin Diesel in a full-body green suit with Groot's head perched on top
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Nov 19, 2014 05:55
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I like that they went to the trouble of making a few fake bloopers with Groot and Rocket even though you see regular bloopers with the tiny little green man as the stand in for Rocket
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Nov 19, 2014 06:09
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Level Slide posted:Here's a video with the full gag reel I'm pretty sure Vin Diesel wasn't cast as Groot until well after they finished filming, so sadly it wasn't him. I am willing to bet he shows up to do the Groot mo-cap for the sequel though.
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Nov 19, 2014 06:20
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Dexo posted:Might have to Buy a DVD for the first time in forever...  How the gently caress did they not roll with this. This is now canon.
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Nov 19, 2014 06:30
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Neo Rasa posted:
This is the best thing. I first saw this as a set of .gifs but they don't do it justice.
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Nov 19, 2014 07:04
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While looking for BD deals I came across this, the soundtrack is free on Google Play right now: http://slickdeals.net/f/7380122-gua...wnload-for-free As for BD stuff, uh I guess most places have the BD+3D+digital one for preorder for $20. Target has some digital extra thingy, Best Buy has a steelbook version, not sure about any other retailer specific ones.
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Nov 19, 2014 08:41
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Awesome Mix Vol. 0 https://www.facebook.com/jgunn/posts/10152860542134570 quote:1. Never Wanted to Dance - Mindless Self Indulgence Embeds for all of them: http://www.slashfilm.com/awesome-mix-volume-0-guardians-of-the-galaxy/2/
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Nov 19, 2014 21:47
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I was able to find every song but #9 on iTunes :-(
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Nov 20, 2014 04:32
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I was watching this in the theaters but had a splitting headache and hated life for it so I just left midway. Didn't like the movie at all, was just irritated. Now watching it on blu-ray and it's great and a lot of fun.
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Nov 22, 2014 04:08
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rear end Catchcum posted:I was able to find every song but #9 on iTunes :-( There's a free bandcamp download from the slashfilm link above. Spotify playlist for anyone who wants it.
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Nov 22, 2014 22:43
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