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Obama Africanus posted:It really is all Israel's for the taking. Please, Jews have been killing Muslims since before Americans knew that Muslims weren't just angry black guys with bow ties. They can kill more in a month than Americans can in a year.
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Aug 1, 2014 14:30
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I'm not in the military so I'm trying to get some reference: The closest specific event I can think of that the U.S. was involved in in the last ~decade was Falluja, right? How many civilians did the U.S. turn to paste over that?
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Aug 1, 2014 14:33
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illrepute posted:I'm not in the military so I'm trying to get some reference: The closest specific event I can think of that the U.S. was involved in in the last ~decade was Falluja, right? How many civilians did the U.S. turn to paste over that? Hopefully all of them
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Aug 1, 2014 14:43
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illrepute posted:I'm not in the military so I'm trying to get some reference: The closest specific event I can think of that the U.S. was involved in in the last ~decade was Falluja, right? How many civilians did the U.S. turn to paste over that? We've had many large battles in the last decade. Fallujah was just one of them, and there is no goddamn telling what the true casualties were outside of U.S. WIA and KIA. There are estimates, and they vary, but there were certainly civilians who got schwacked. Possibly lots. War is hell.
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Aug 1, 2014 14:55
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Obama Africanus posted:We've had many large battles in the last decade. Fallujah was just one of them, and there is no goddamn telling what the true casualties were outside of U.S. WIA and KIA. There are estimates, and they vary, but there were certainly civilians who got schwacked. Possibly lots. Definitely, but I'm thinking of situations specifically comparable to Gaza, and Falluja is the major one I can think of where the U.S. surrounded the city and then sent guys in over a roughly month-long period of sustained urban warfare, airstrikes, shelling, that sort of thing. I'd rather ask soldiers than wikipedia, is all 
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Aug 1, 2014 15:00
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illrepute posted:Definitely, but I'm thinking of situations specifically comparable to Gaza, and Falluja is the major one I can think of where the U.S. surrounded the city and then sent guys in over a roughly month-long period of sustained urban warfare, airstrikes, shelling, that sort of thing. ...and then let the bad guys go at the last minute.
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Aug 1, 2014 15:15
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For most active duty personnel the battle over the mind is waged everyday. so they don't forget how to tie their shoes or count past four.
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Aug 1, 2014 15:17
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Zeroisanumber posted:...and then let the bad guys go at the last minute. I didn't say the commanders did a good job 
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Aug 1, 2014 15:18
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illrepute posted:Definitely, but I'm thinking of situations specifically comparable to Gaza, and Falluja is the major one I can think of where the U.S. surrounded the city and then sent guys in over a roughly month-long period of sustained urban warfare, airstrikes, shelling, that sort of thing. I'd rather ask soldiers than wikipedia, is all Fallujah isn't comparable to Gaza, really, in a strategic or a tactical sense. After US forces were pushed out of the city in early 2004, it eventually grew into a major stronghold for insurgent forces, who pushed out a large part of the civilian populace. During the run up to the second battle (the infamous "Battle of Fallujah"), there was both a massive US and insurgent buildup on both sides. US forces allowed women and children to leave, but turned back every military-aged male. Then we went in and pretty much flattened the city. Fallujah was much smaller than Gaza geographically, and the insurgent forces weren't a pseudo-government receiving heavy weapons from sympathetic countries. The strategic objective was to crush a bastion of insurgent forces, rather than to contain them and remove their force projection capabilities (a la Gaza).
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Aug 1, 2014 15:19
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psydude posted:Fallujah isn't comparable to Gaza, really, in a strategic or a tactical sense. After US forces were pushed out of the city in early 2004, it eventually grew into a major stronghold for insurgent forces, who pushed out a large part of the civilian populace. During the run up to the second battle (the infamous "Battle of Fallujah"), there was both a massive US and insurgent buildup on both sides. US forces allowed women and children to leave, but turned back every military-aged male. Then we went in and pretty much flattened the city. Fallujah was much smaller than Gaza geographically, and the insurgent forces weren't a pseudo-government receiving heavy weapons from sympathetic countries. The strategic objective was to crush a bastion of insurgent forces, rather than to contain them and remove their force projection capabilities (a la Gaza). Thank you. I had forgotten that the U.S. allowed women and children to leave the city beforehand.
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Aug 1, 2014 15:22
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A better comparison might be Sadr City.
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Aug 1, 2014 15:25
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I'm familiar with Muqtada Al-Sadr and Sadr City, but not with with the level of fighting that took place there during the war (other than "it was high"). I'm sorry that this is getting off-topic.
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Aug 1, 2014 15:32
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JAM was full of assholes in spring 2008, and now they're apparently the ones responsible for trying to keep ISIS out of Baghdad.
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Aug 1, 2014 15:46
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Fucitol posted:JAM was full of assholes in spring 2008, and now they're apparently the ones responsible for trying to keep ISIS out of Baghdad. A good fight between ISIS and the Mahdi Army (IIRC they rebranded themselves as "Peace Brigades" recently) would be nice, hopefully they wipe each other out.
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Aug 1, 2014 15:52
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I just don't get why the DND posters think all israelies are war criminals or whatever for using guided munitions. It's not like they're carpet bombing with unguided bombs, or leveling Gaza with naval cannons or something. Trying to avoid civilian deaths where possible doesn't make you a war criminal, it makes you pursuant to world law actually. The key word is trying though. P.s., I think watching JDAMs explode and level the launch site and the next four buildings is super sweet, gently caress you.
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Aug 1, 2014 16:07
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Larry Parrish posted:I just don't get why the DND posters think all israelies are war criminals or whatever for using guided munitions. It's not like they're carpet bombing with unguided bombs, or leveling Gaza with naval cannons or something. Trying to avoid civilian deaths where possible doesn't make you a war criminal, it makes you pursuant to world law actually. The key word is trying though. People are just angry. There's significant evidence of war crimes on both sides, it's just that one side has killed upwards of 1500+ people (and estimates are that the vast majority are civilians) so whatever. People claiming that all Israelis are war criminals or that all individual IDF members are committing crimes is dumb and unhelpful to the discussion because it forces out people who can provide a different perspective. Like the weird turf war between posters from different subforums.
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Aug 1, 2014 16:10
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War crimes is such a hypocritical term.
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Aug 1, 2014 16:17
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Redundant, too.
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Aug 1, 2014 16:46
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Sjurygg posted:Redundant, too. How edgy
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Aug 1, 2014 16:56
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A fine new start, Shimazu 
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Aug 1, 2014 16:59
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90 loving minutes loving hilarious
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Aug 1, 2014 17:10
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The defense of Poland lasted longer than this cease fire.
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Aug 1, 2014 17:13
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The Israelis are like a 5'5" dude who knows how to fight and enjoys doing so.
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Aug 1, 2014 17:18
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EVA BRAUN BLOWJOBS posted:The defense of Poland lasted longer than this cease fire. Hey gently caress you Poland held out almost as long as the entire BEF and French Army in france with like half as many dudes against Germany and Russia 
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Aug 1, 2014 18:25
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Bolow posted:Hey gently caress you Poland held out almost as long as the entire BEF and French Army in france with like half as many dudes against Germany and Russia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Winter_War I'm sorry, you were saying something about Poland holding out against the Soviets?
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Aug 1, 2014 18:33
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EVA BRAUN BLOWJOBS posted:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Winter_War http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish%E2%80%93Soviet_War 
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Aug 1, 2014 18:37
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EVA BRAUN BLOWJOBS posted:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Winter_War I have met a no-poo poo Finnish WInter War veteran and the guy is straight up the most hardcore person I will ever care to know. He had no qualms about discussing what he did in length and detail, to him, it was the exact same as going out and hunting a wolf that had been killing cattle. After I had been listening to him for a few hours I asked him how many Russians he had killed. Dude laughed and said "More than I can remember, but not nearly as many as I would have liked" He ended the conversation chastising Eisenhower for not taking the initiative right after the war and nuking Moscow on May-Day. Old Finnish people are Alpha-GiP as gently caress
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Aug 1, 2014 18:38
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I'm blanking on the Finnish sniper or soldier who basically was preternaturally talented at killing Russians.
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Aug 1, 2014 18:44
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People%27s_Republic_of_Poland 
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Aug 1, 2014 18:47
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holocaust bloopers posted:I'm blanking on the Finnish sniper or soldier who basically was preternaturally talented at killing Russians. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simo_H%C3%A4yh%C3%A4 
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Aug 1, 2014 18:48
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505 confirmed kills in less than 100 days 
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Aug 1, 2014 18:54
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You guys do realize that Finland lost both times anyway?
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Aug 1, 2014 18:57
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Based on the staggering amount of Soviet casualties, I don't know if you can really call it a huge loss for the Finns.
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Aug 1, 2014 19:05
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Panzeh posted:You guys do realize that Finland lost both times anyway? Yeah and the US lost its sense of pride to gender queers and vegans but we can still talk about the good times Holy gently caress that guy was 5ft tall and only used iron sights on his rifle Tiny Timbs fucked around with this message at 19:08 on Aug 1, 2014 |
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Aug 1, 2014 19:05
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Panzeh posted:You guys do realize that Finland lost both times anyway? Hush, we're dickwaving over countries and battles we have absolutely no connection to.
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Aug 1, 2014 19:07
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Panzeh posted:You guys do realize that Finland lost both times anyway? a red army general looking at a map of territory they just won posted:We have won just about enough ground to bury our dead. sick victory bruh 
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Aug 1, 2014 19:20
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GENDERWEIRD GREEDO posted:Yeah and the US lost its sense of pride to gender queers and vegans but we can still talk about the good times A lot of older dudes can shoot spooky-accurate with iron sights. I watched my grandad nail a gas can sitting ~400 yards away with an open sight on an old Mauser rifle, I wouldn't have believed it if I didn't see it with my own eyes.
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Aug 1, 2014 19:22
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Kung Fu Fist gently caress posted:sick victory bruh a win's a win
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Aug 1, 2014 19:34
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Snowdens Secret posted:About an hour and a half, or two hours five minutes, depending on if you count the kidnap attack or the first Hamas rockets hitting Sderot. I guessed two hrs, so I think I win. GENDERWEIRD GREEDO posted:Yeah and the US lost its sense of pride to gender queers and vegans but we can still talk about the good times We've also managed to not win most of our major conflicts in the past 60 years. Godholio fucked around with this message at 19:50 on Aug 1, 2014 |
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Aug 1, 2014 19:45
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Panzeh posted:a win's a win A little more complex than that. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyrrhic_victory
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Aug 1, 2014 20:11
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