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Well, this episode was a bit of a letdown. It focused quite heavily on the project secrecy and previous contacts the scientists may or may not have had, and was pretty good in general but dragged a bit with the personal conflicts, especially between Winter's wife and the rear end in a top hat Captain who killed her bees.
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Aug 25, 2014 04:36
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Yep, definitely a midseason sort of episode. Pretty good, but I am a little let down by the episodic focus. I'd rather see them plant seeds for longer arcs than have little inconsequential ones like this. I guess there was a bit of that this time though, with the bees, mr. husky's girl, and obviously the end.
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Aug 25, 2014 05:02
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I thought this was a really, really bad episode of television, the out-of-nowhere anger of Charlie wasn't really narratively justified- if he knew about this all along and had a legitimate concern over state secrets being told why didn't he do anything about it until now? Is Charlie literally that petty, that he'd get so angry over getting shown up that he'd decide to voice a concern he had simply out of spite, fully content beforehand that a guy could be committing treason? Also making winters be cheating on his wife is just loving stupid, the Mexican maid works incredibly well as a living confidant that would never be able to betray the secrets that are destroying winters' life- I think one of the major aspects of his personality is how his secrets are destroying him, but he's too obsessed with manhattan to be able to have any form of release that he isn't absolutely sure is safe and the maid is his option for it But instead making him have an affair really undercuts the relationship he has with his wife and really discredits all the work the show had built into their relationship and how strong and necessary for both of them it was Just ugh, a loving terrible episode
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Aug 26, 2014 06:40
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As interesting as this show is on the surface, I'm having a hard time letting it grab me. Like, I don't actually know any of the character's names besides Winters. There's Col. Something, Mrs. Winters, Girl Scientist, Fat Scientist, Whiny Scientist, Other-Group-Scientist Dudes, Smug-young-gun-from-other-group, Smug-young-gun-from-other-group-wife, Pfc Murderpants, and Oppenheimer. Oh and Aickley who leads hte other team. It's a beautiful show and well acted but something just doesn't click for me where I engage and like, learn the names and the faces.
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Aug 26, 2014 06:58
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Yeah, I thought that was extremely bad of a choice on the writers desperately trying to grasp into that whole Mad Men feel. You didn't have to make him a cheater. It made sense that he would just spill these secrets he couldn't to someone who doesn't know the language and couldn't understand. Him banging her just really ruins that whole bond and strength that it seemed he had in his marriage - aside of being preoccupied on the whole bomb building.
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Aug 26, 2014 07:40
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I pretty much can't stand Frank as a character. Even in this episode, where his motivation is saving his friend's job, I found myself siding with Charlie all the way. I mean, was it petty for Charlie to bring up Babbit's past like that? Sure, but he really had no way of knowing that Babbit had completely hidden any ties to Lavoreaux (sp?) and it's not like he was wrong. He only went further than "He knew him" when pressed and intimidated by Frank. Frank just strikes me as very unsympathetic, and the whole infidelity thing really isn't helping that at all.
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Aug 26, 2014 10:38
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ShakeZula posted:Frank just strikes me as very unsympathetic, and the whole infidelity thing really isn't helping that at all. My problem with the affair is that the audience is already aware that Frank is an rear end in a top hat. They made that pretty clear on numerous occasions and watching him continue to be a dick to people because he's incredibly stressed and thinks that his bomb is the most important thing in the world was really interesting and exciting. This stupid affair just feels so lazy by comparison to all the other natural character building the show's done. I mean, it'll obviously be used as either a way to generate drama between Frank and the Washington guy, or we'll find out that the maid actually knows English and was a spy this whole time or something equally dumb. Whoever made the Mad Men comparison is spot on. Charlie is the Pete to Frank's Don Draper, and it's a shame that the show apparently decided that having Frank be the rear end in a top hat genius wasn't enough.
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Aug 26, 2014 10:58
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I enjoyed the episode because it got to play around with some of the other side characters for fun. But in the end it still came about with Frank and Charlie anyway. The affair thing is kinda really dumb minus the fact he can say whatever he wants without getting in trouble, but that's about it. I know it was foreshadowed super hard in the first episode, which makes it all the worse because it was coming all along despite it all. I hope they expand on it because right now it seems a bit out of character for Frank.
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Aug 28, 2014 05:41
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I'm glad I'm not the only one to realize how foreshadowed this affair is. People are talking like they were completely caught off guard. I also don't think I agree with the idea that Frank has this amazing strong bond with his wife. She seems pretty unhappy and neglected and has more or less given up on changing things, at least for the time being. Even in this last episode she's trying to talk with him during dinner, and he cuts her off, completely ignoring what she was saying, to talk about professor pinko. I would describe their relationship as long-suffering maybe, but not particularly strong or happy. I'd be happier if the affair wasn't a thing, (at least based on what we've see so far, no telling what they'll do with it) but between the list of prostitutes, the GI car wash show, and plenty of disenfranchised, vulnerable natives working there, I think fidelity is considered sort of a joke by everyone in town anyways.
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Aug 28, 2014 06:12
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I think most people were caught off guard because when we got the hint in the early episode the initial reaction was "Nonono pull back show." Then nothing happened for a few episodes and it looked like they just had that moment there as a nice way to show just how stressed Frank is but then nope, surprise it really was an affair this whole time. And I don't think anyone thinks or at least has said that Frank's marriage to his wife is rock solid, but turning him into a cheater just screams cheap drama. I'd say he's been portrayed as troubled and distracted, but not uncaring or unloving to his wife. Like someone above said, it feels like they're trying to go for that Mad Men dynamic and it just feels a bit out of place. Also this is all ignoring the fact that Frank somehow managed to start regularly sleeping with his house keeper who doesn't speak a word of English simply by giving her occasional rides home. The whole thing's just an entire level of quality below the rest of the show, so hopefully they at least do something interesting with it.
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Aug 28, 2014 06:22
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I'm just so goddamn tired of adultery in my shows. If there is a more cliche, tired way of making drama, I don't know.
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Aug 28, 2014 12:56
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Wow, I was worried that goon scientist's b-plot was going to be about him being in love with the base prostitute but the whole him swallowing the plutonium was way more interesting the I expected. Also what did Winters mean by "Potempkin clinic?" Oh, and the little scene of the Army guy giving Winters' wife the box of DDT and it had the kids being sprayed with it to kill lice was hilarious. I'm glad the whole "Winters infidelity" angle was completely absent this episode. His wife is such a good character on her own that we don't need some bs relationship drama to take up her time.
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Sep 1, 2014 05:56
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Is it wrong that I was annoyed that 'its not rocket science' was mentioned when it wasn't a commonly used pharse for another 40 years? Just seems sloppy to me. Besides that was still an OK episode, not as solid as the first few but still solid. Though I'm curious what was meant by the pre-intro peek into the nazi nuclear program. As I understand it, around late '43 which this should be if that was the x10 reactor, the nazi program was barely off the ground, it had no funding as it wasn't seen as a program that could give a short-term gain. I guess that was a bit left open still though, are we just seeing this from Frank's eyes? Mega historical spoilers http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Epsilon , the British got all the german nuclear scientists in a bugged cottage after the war and fed them the news that the americans had dropped the bomb on Japan. The germans weren't even sure if this could be real as they weren't entirely sure a nuclear bomb could be effectively made WilWheaton fucked around with this message at 08:52 on Sep 1, 2014 |
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Sep 1, 2014 08:42
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pentyne posted:Wow, I was worried that goon scientist's b-plot was going to be about him being in love with the base prostitute but the whole him swallowing the plutonium was way more interesting the I expected. Also what did Winters mean by "Potempkin clinic?" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potemkin_village
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Sep 1, 2014 09:57
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RIP Fritz. I liked that intro, oh who is this nice guy who likes birdS? Oh no, an evil nazi scientist.
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Sep 1, 2014 13:19
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4 posts since the last episode, does anyone have any idea what the ratings are on this? I don't think anyone has heard of it still
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Sep 2, 2014 02:26
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Wikipedia says ~0.35
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Sep 2, 2014 03:04
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Fooz posted:Wikipedia says ~0.35 Which for WGN is probably stellar.
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Sep 2, 2014 03:07
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What was the implication of the bee thing at the end?
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Sep 2, 2014 06:47
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That it's related to the fact that everyone that works/lives at the camp is being exposed to a bunch of really dangerous chemicals without their knowledge. It sets Frank's wife up to be the one who discovers/reports the dangerous toxic chemicals that the entire camp is apparently exposed to, and fits in with the health theme of the episode. I'm not super knowledgeable about the specifics of the Manhattan project, but the concept of safety/morals vs progress is pretty common in the history of discovery/technology. The show dealt with it directly in the scene between Frank and the general, but the entire episode was basically about the blissful ignorance that a lot of people had at the time of the dangers of the chemicals that they were dealing with. Fritz swallowing the plutonium and being told to drink beer by a woefully unqualified doctor, the kids being sprayed with pesticides, the flower that Liza noticed being a different color than it should be, the line about how the Nazis think cigarettes are dangerous, the story about how Marie Curie died, and Charlie/Helen's safety inspection of the nuclear plant and how the guy in charge just wanted to get it done asap.
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Sep 2, 2014 07:14
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It looks like they're setting her up to discover http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyrethroid as a form of insecticide as an alternative to DDT? I normally would know nothing about that but I was curious after they showed the chrysanthemum a few times and then the bees dying. It's a weird stretch though.
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Sep 2, 2014 07:47
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VDay posted:That it's related to the fact that everyone that works/lives at the camp is being exposed to a bunch of really dangerous chemicals without their knowledge. It sets Frank's wife up to be the one who discovers/reports the dangerous toxic chemicals that the entire camp is apparently exposed to, and fits in with the health theme of the episode. I'm not super knowledgeable about the specifics of the Manhattan project, but the concept of safety/morals vs progress is pretty common in the history of discovery/technology. The show dealt with it directly in the scene between Frank and the general, but the entire episode was basically about the blissful ignorance that a lot of people had at the time of the dangers of the chemicals that they were dealing with. The whole thing with Frank being shown the Nazi equations almost seemed like something fabricated by the higher ups (Oppenheimer maybe) to terrify him into looking the other way about the absence of any serious health directives regarding radiation. His response is to take full possession of the plutonium and not let anyone else work with it, so he'll be the only one exposed. While noble, still does nothing to address the complete sideshow that is the radiological safety measures. Regarding the DDT, it wasn't even seriously investigated as a problem until the 60s, so at best Liza Winters will find that its doing damage, but the Army will still saturate the children and the troops with it.
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Sep 2, 2014 20:13
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The DDT stuff is irritatingly anachronistic. Plus, if all you care about is human safety, spraying DDT is everywhere a itself miracle of science. I assumed the bees and the flowers were going to be a side effect of trace radiation, and that this would lead Ms. Scientist to figure out they're working on the bomb. But I don't know if radiation actually has those kinds of effects.
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Sep 5, 2014 15:19
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Factor Mystic posted:The DDT stuff is irritatingly anachronistic. Plus, if all you care about is human safety, spraying DDT is everywhere a itself miracle of science. Spiderwort does, but only its stamen changes colors.
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Sep 5, 2014 20:23
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I hate to say it, but I think I may be too much of a sperg to enjoy this show. The writers are taking an insane number of liberties with history to create drama centered on the project itself, and it's just starting to feel really lazy. Basically everything around the X-10 reactor is made up, for example, since, as far as I know, that thing came online ahead of schedule without a hitch. I really wish the show would just stick with character drama and leave stuff relating to the project in the background and basically historical.
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Sep 8, 2014 22:15
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Paradoxish posted:I hate to say it, but I think I may be too much of a sperg to enjoy this show. The writers are taking an insane number of liberties with history to create drama centered on the project itself, and it's just starting to feel really lazy. Basically everything around the X-10 reactor is made up, for example, since, as far as I know, that thing came online ahead of schedule without a hitch. I really wish the show would just stick with character drama and leave stuff relating to the project in the background and basically historical. This is pretty much how I feel about the show as well. And they called it a pile dammit! 
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Sep 11, 2014 17:50
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Factor Mystic posted:The DDT stuff is irritatingly anachronistic. Plus, if all you care about is human safety, spraying DDT is everywhere a itself miracle of science. I looked it up after the episode, it was more or less a miracle cure for the army to keep soldiers from getting sick in tropical environments like the Pacific islands. It seems like a one off though, as it hasn't been mentioned again. Paradoxish posted:I hate to say it, but I think I may be too much of a sperg to enjoy this show. The writers are taking an insane number of liberties with history to create drama centered on the project itself, and it's just starting to feel really lazy. Basically everything around the X-10 reactor is made up, for example, since, as far as I know, that thing came online ahead of schedule without a hitch. I really wish the show would just stick with character drama and leave stuff relating to the project in the background and basically historical. This is the one thing bothering me the most about the most recent episodes. Obviously they need to flesh out the main cast, and young genius plagiarist hasn't really gotten much time to develop as compared to Winters and Liza or even the PFC who shot Lee, but creating contrived situations doesn't help. I mean, racism in the 40s was pretty bad, but if they got a world famous black nuclear physicist I really doubt the on site manager would be allowed to treat him like a servant; in fact the only reason the black physicist would be there is people at the top wanted him, and all he'd have to do is send them a memo or letter saying "Hey, the on-site rednecks treat me like garbage, this facility will probably explode, I'm heading to Alaska, good luck with the war" and a torrent of fury would rain down from Oppenheimer. It's really disappointing to see the direction the show has taken. The first 4 episodes were mind-numbingly good, like something I'd expect from a top tier AMC or HBO show, but it stumbled and doesn't seem to be getting back to what made it great. WGN has backed this hard and it's almost certain to get a second season, but if it doesn't get passed the weird attempts to be Mad Men (Winter's infidelity) its going to be stuck at being merely 'good' rather then great. The episode Last Reasoning of Kings is probably one of my top 15 episodes of TV ever, mostly in part to the phenomenal acting and speeches by the Niels Bohr actor, but since that high point, its slowly slide downhill. pentyne fucked around with this message at 21:41 on Sep 14, 2014 |
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Sep 14, 2014 21:36
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After a few good/meh episodes, this one was a home run... Probably the best episode to date. The private giving out the intelligence file is probably a capital offense, though, I surprised he left it with her.
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Sep 15, 2014 05:45
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Holy gently caress the disinterest when Abigail heard from her parents about the ghettos and “liquidation” was a huge punch in the stomach. I really could picture how contemporary people might hear rumors about what happened to Jews in Europe under the Nazis and dismissing it as "gloomy rumors" rather then reality. It's one of those things you need to have shoved in your face to actually believe other human beings could literally have done. It paid off in spades with the scene of her with the file trying to keep it together while she explains to Charlie who says "Don't let it upset you, you can't change it". Charlie has finally gotten his episode, where he goes from “background annoyance” to “genuine protagonist” The actor did an incredible job of conveying serious internal panic over what he knew versus how it would affect him. And of all the side characters to get serious development, the Brit in Winter’s group, Crosley suddenly becomes a seriously interesting person. A displaced Lord working on the US project is way more intriguing then the random Brit. The whole thing leading up to Winter and Crosley hooking up the visitor with a prostitute was hilarious, even with the undertones of the visiting Brit being a dick to Crosley. Though, it seems like the entire plot was just to make Winter desperate about implosion and set up the amazing finale. The episode continues its A-game as Babbit confronts the polygraph examiner about Abagail, and casually mentions that they have a male “acquaintance” in common. I fully expect that plot point to be ignored after the initial reveal but I'm glad it was brought back in a somewhat subtle way. Also, I’m glad PFC Cole is getting more screen time. He did such a great job in the after episode of Liao’s shooting, and his comment of Sodom and Gomorrah was brilliant. It gave a great scene with Abigail so shocked by what the Army files told her trying to talk to Charlie while keeping it together and suddenly realizing what being Jewish means during WW2. Charlie being shown pictures of the Holocaust mere weeks/months after its happened to push him to do better. Then, the montage of Ackely and Winter both drinking, while Ackely is casually writing in his office, happily staring an advent calendar, and Winter is furiously scrawling equations and getting angrier and angrier. And god drat what an ending. Just the brief exchange between Winter and Charlie gave me chills. This show is back to where it belongs, and every minute of it was spellbinding. It’s one of the first shows I’ve seen that managed to make every single subplot in the show feel like the main plot. There were 4+ stories going on in this show, and they all seemed like the most important thing going on at the time.
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Sep 15, 2014 06:30
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pentyne posted:It’s one of the first shows I’ve seen that managed to make every single subplot in the show feel like the main plot. There were 4+ stories going on in this show, and they all seemed like the most important thing going on at the time. This is one of the few shows in recent history that has managed to balance the main plot with what we usually refer to as "family bullshit" successfully. Before the season started I was convinced that it was going to be an interesting premise mired down in relationship drama because it was marketed that way but I've been really happy it hasn't turned out that way.
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Sep 15, 2014 18:21
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That was a good episode, and I especially liked that Frank got knocked off his high horse a little bit. He and Charlie circling each other was fun at first, but with the plagiarism thing I felt like Frank became too much of an rear end in a top hat (not helped by the simultaneous reveal of his adultery), so it was good to see the two of them finally come together. My big complaint now is that the forbidden lesbian romance plotline is very stupid.
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Sep 16, 2014 09:02
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ShakeZula posted:... but with the plagiarism thing I felt like Frank became too much of an rear end in a top hat ... Well he was kinda forced into that situation to save his good friend from what could have been a very bad situation.
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Sep 16, 2014 09:08
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Rarrgh posted:Well he was kinda forced into that situation to save his good friend from what could have been a very bad situation. I get why he confronted Charlie, but bringing Abby into it was a bridge too far for me. And then the crowing later on about how "there's thieves everywhere around here."
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Sep 16, 2014 09:15
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When they were spitballing the name for their bomb, they mentioned thanatos and I think a sibling? Was it nemesis? I think it was death and retributive death?
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Sep 18, 2014 08:39
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Peter Stormare forever.
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Sep 22, 2014 08:22
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A little too much forced drama this episode with the subterfuge with Charlie using Eckley's teams to do the implosion math and Winter having to deal with the cousin of the maid subtlety threatening him repeatedly. The payoff was odd, given that the intelligence services who up to this point have treated suspects as enemies of the state would create some convoluted scheme to see if Frank discloses any secret information. That one rear end in a top hat scientist who kept mocking Charlie got weirdly sexually violent with Charlie's wife, which seemed pretty unnecessary for him assault her and threaten Charlie in the same action. I know this show is going for "drama" but the thin man project has clearly been destined to fail since midway through this season, so all this cloak and dagger stuff just comes off as out of place. Same with the bit at the end with Liza taking radiation readings of the baby. That plot development was already addressed a while ago, so unless they're going to now have Liza raising hell over all the stray radiation I don't see the point.
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Sep 22, 2014 23:06
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I caught up with this show over the last couple weeks and I think it's the best show on TV right now and probably one of my favorites of the year. The thing that really caught me off guard was the amazing acting from a bunch of actors I've never seen before. The standouts for me have been John Benjamin Hickey, Ashley Zukerman, Katja Herbers, and especially Harry Lloyd. And when I've looked at their IMDBs some of them I've seen things they were in but never noticed them before. So they're pretty much unknowns to me. The recent episode with Harry Lloyd's character being outed as a con man of sorts was my favorite so far.
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Sep 28, 2014 21:51
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Thanks for the sticky. With how unknown this show still seems to be its going to make finding it much easier than going back the 3 pages I usually do on its viewing night.
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Sep 29, 2014 00:32
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Just bookmark it dawg. Also I don't post a lot about this show but I'm really, really liking it. A few rough spots and obvious over-exaggerations/dramatizations here and there, but the characters are pretty much all fantastic and the overall plot is legitimately compelling even though we all know how it ends.
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Sep 29, 2014 00:53
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"Say what you will about the Third Reich, they know how to respect hierarchy"  I'm not really enjoying the lesbian b-plot. I thought it was over then it's suddenly back. This episode seemed a little more scattered in plot then the previous ones, it seemed like they were trying too many things at once. I also dislike the continued forcing for family drama. We know from the show that the Army's radiological treatment program is smoke and mirrors, so Liza finding all the radioactivity makes sense, but now it was just her hallucinating? There was really no need to bring her mental illness into the show as a source of drama when there were much better things going on. There's only 3 more episodes, and given the tone and pace of the series I expect them to be mind-blowing, but this episode seems rushed like they tried to pack in all the things they hadn't got around to yet, Sid's wife, the Army guy dating Frank's daughter, more lesbian romance drama, Liza's possible insanity, etc. so that they could focus entirely on the implosion/Thin Man conflict for the last few and hopefully resolve the "which bomb will work" story. pentyne fucked around with this message at 05:19 on Sep 29, 2014 |
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Sep 29, 2014 05:15
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