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I definitely agree that this one felt a bit packed, but, it was still a great episode in my opinion. I'd agree they might be packing too many things into Liza's plot, I'm hoping they somehow come out with a good resolution for at least one of the parts of her story this season. How many does she have going now that she's related to? You could argue it's got a few threads at this point that feel unanswered. [spoiler]The Bee colony collapse relation to DDT pesticides, her association to the frank affair thread, her struggle vs the authority on the base, and now her discovery of the radioactivity present combined with her suddenly call back to her mental illness[/s[oiler] I really like her but her character, and Olivia Williams delivery is excellent enough to keep her enthralling, but who wrote her? It's going to take a lot to bring her character out of its plot mess, i'll be amazed if they call tie it up at all. Or, it'll leave a lot for a second season to pick up. I'm actually starting to really like Abby arc. It's taken a strange angle with the 1940's bisexual swinger love affair that took a few episodes to start, but, its entertaining. I love that there has been a good job of keeping a good sense of progression when it comes to the actual project as well, few shows have been able to pull that off well, and this is restricted to [albeit maybe a hazy] a historical timeline. I guess this is basically Frank's main plotline at the same time, which making flushing him out difficult. I hope they swing him around with Lisa soon as I feel thats still untouched from his affair plotline, and really needs to be resolved with Liza soon. I'm really hoping this somehow gets renewed. I'm sure the viewership can't be big, which is a huge shame. This is easily one of my favourites of the year, and that's saying a lot given how great a year it's been.
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Sep 29, 2014 07:11
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Calling Abby's arc a "lesbian b-plot" is being super disingenuous. Describing it as "lesbian romance drama" makes it sound like she's spending huge parts of multiple episodes just sneaking around behind her husband's back, or coming home just in the nick of time to avoid getting caught or something, when that's not the focus of that story at all. The point isn't that she realizes that she might like other women, it's that her entire way of thinking is being challenged for the first time in her life. Her romance is just the next step in her self-realization, and goes hand-in-hand with her finding out what's actually happening in Europe from her parents and having her eyes opened to massive, life-changing ideas. I can see it not being everyone's favorite part of the show, but to pretend that it's just some cheap drama thrown in for the sake of having something controversial/risque in the show seems pretty unfair. I think her arc and her character's development especially has been one of the best, most subtle stories the show's told and I loved the little detail in the last episode when Abby showed up to return the book and wasn't wearing lipstick/makeup. I think it gives the show a nice balance so that it isn't always about the scientists constantly having one epiphany after another, even if those scenes are usually really well done. I do agree though that Liza's character has unfortunately been thrown into yet another bizarre arc. I really liked her when she seemed to be making the best of her lovely situation, but now she's apparently having full blown anxiety/panic attacks and who knows what that will lead to. Thinking about Abby's arc and her new-found confidence actually makes me wish that her and Liza kept being friends and that the writers could've maybe eventually figured out a way to do something neat with the both of them overcoming their circumstances. I'll still give the show the benefit of the doubt with regards to Liza since it's been fantastic so far, but I'm a bit nervous that she's going to simply become a burden on Frank instead of being the awesome character she was introduced as. VDay fucked around with this message at 11:01 on Sep 29, 2014 |
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Sep 29, 2014 10:58
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pentyne posted:I'm not really enjoying the lesbian b-plot. I thought it was over then it's suddenly back. This is the only thing I don't like in the show. It's not that it's really bad, but it is boring. I tend to check my phone when Abbie is on screen. The rest is brilliant.
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Sep 29, 2014 12:34
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Frostwerks posted:When they were spitballing the name for their bomb, they mentioned thanatos and I think a sibling? Was it nemesis? I think it was death and retributive death? Does anyone know which ep this was at least?
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Oct 1, 2014 07:18
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The Abby plotline is definitely my least favorite part of the show. Beyond the fact that it's boring, Abby has just been so bizarrely low-key through the whole thing. This is an adulterous lesbian relationship that has progressed very quickly from flirtatious glances to straight up sex picnics, and sheltered housewife Abby has never shown more than slight consternation at any stage. Maybe it's just Rachel Brosnahan's performance, but I've never gotten any hint of real chemistry between Abby and Elodie, which makes the whole thing just seem like an odd waste of time. It's a shame, because I think there are very interesting stories to be told about the wives and families outside the labs, but the show doesn't seem keen on telling them. I'm also still rankled by the whole plagiarism subplot. A few episodes ago Charlie went against his own convictions and lied to the government out of fear that Frank would tell people he was a plagiarist, now he's making jokes about it with the same guy who blackmailed him and a complete stranger. And he and Frank have completely switched positions on the gravity of Charlie's offense. And also Babbit knows now, too.
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Oct 2, 2014 11:37
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Abby's plot had a great fake out foreshadowing thing. I think it's the pilot when she sees Elodie undressing and seems shocked in the sheltered housewife manner but then Abby's lie detector test had the question about being with men other than her husband. "M-m-m-men? No!" As for Charlie's plagiarism, I don't think Frank cares as much as he cares about getting the bomb built. He used it to manipulate Charlie, and it was the basis of his distrust of Charlie's ability to contribute. Since seeing the Holocaust file Charlie is in the same mindset. Who really gives a gently caress about academia bullshit when so much is at stake in the real world, basically.
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Oct 2, 2014 14:50
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ShakeZula posted:The Abby plotline is definitely my least favorite part of the show. Beyond the fact that it's boring, Abby has just been so bizarrely low-key through the whole thing. This is an adulterous lesbian relationship that has progressed very quickly from flirtatious glances to straight up sex picnics, and sheltered housewife Abby has never shown more than slight consternation at any stage. Maybe it's just Rachel Brosnahan's performance, but I've never gotten any hint of real chemistry between Abby and Elodie, which makes the whole thing just seem like an odd waste of time. It's a shame, because I think there are very interesting stories to be told about the wives and families outside the labs, but the show doesn't seem keen on telling them. Unfortunately, the show has completely moved past the plagiarism subplot once Charlie joined the 'good guys' and only made it the focus of a single episode as a reason to reign in Charlie by Winters in order to protect Babbit and keep his love connection to a major spy secret. I feel like the family drama aspects where introduced into the show to make it more compelling then just "scientists battle over competing ideas" and as a whole come off as less developed and more forced. Liza's mental illness suddenly returning (or has it?) was really out of place in the tone of the show. There are 2 possibilities, a) she is starting to crack despite all the evidence shown onscreen that radiation is a serious problem the Army is ignoring or b)She's not cracking, and the rear end in a top hat Army guy who killed her bees is spying on her and making sure to discredit her attempts to out the problem.
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Oct 5, 2014 10:58
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Whats the halflife of plutonium and all the stuff they would be using there? Is there a legitimate reason why something would read radioactive and then suddenly not radioactive within the span of a few hours like that? The idea that there are gmen peeking in Liza's windows and sneaking in to immediately replace anything that reads radioactive, even if that means half the stuff in her house, is absolutely retarded. But, the idea that she just so happened to be hallucinating radioactive contamination in Los Alamos of all places seems rather far fetched too.
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Oct 5, 2014 11:56
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counterfeitsaint posted:Whats the halflife of plutonium and all the stuff they would be using there? Is there a legitimate reason why something would read radioactive and then suddenly not radioactive within the span of a few hours like that? The idea that there are gmen peeking in Liza's windows and sneaking in to immediately replace anything that reads radioactive, even if that means half the stuff in her house, is absolutely retarded. But, the idea that she just so happened to be hallucinating radioactive contamination in Los Alamos of all places seems rather far fetched too. The idea wasn't that they broke in and secretly decontaminated everything (which would be practically impossible), or that the isotope was so short lived that it had decayed significantly in that time span. (Any isotope with such a short half life would also be VERY dangerously radioactive.) The idea was that they went in and tampered with the Geiger counter, which is very possible. Now, either they tampered with the Geiger counter or she did in fact hallucinate it.
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Oct 5, 2014 12:02
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spankmeister posted:The idea wasn't that they broke in and secretly decontaminated everything (which would be practically impossible), or that the isotope was so short lived that it had decayed significantly in that time span. (Any isotope with such a short half life would also be VERY dangerously radioactive.) Given the effort being made by the main security agent to try and catch Winter in a leak it's not out of the realm that someone is constantly watching his house and wife, but its not handled especially well, given that Winter knows the radiation treatment program is complete bullshit, and his wife suddenly coming to him and telling him there's contamination everywhere and his first response is "take your pills you're crazy". Every single one of the problems between them can be resolved instantly with either him disclosing to her that the army doesn't care about the radiation problem, taking the suspect Geiger counter and running it over some plutonium to make sure it works, or just telling her the whole thing is a state secret, and that she's right but he can't talk about it. At best, he's worried she's relapsing (an unnecessary conflict for the show) and at worst he's drugging his wife to shut her up so he can finish his bomb. pentyne fucked around with this message at 13:41 on Oct 5, 2014 |
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Oct 5, 2014 13:34
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pentyne posted:At best, he's worried she's relapsing (an unnecessary conflict for the show) and at worst he's drugging his wife to shut her up so he can finish his bomb.
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Oct 5, 2014 18:34
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spankmeister posted:The idea wasn't that they broke in and secretly decontaminated everything (which would be practically impossible), or that the isotope was so short lived that it had decayed significantly in that time span. (Any isotope with such a short half life would also be VERY dangerously radioactive.) Or she was contaminated by the workers she helped with earlier in the day and was reading herself with the Geiger counter. Then when someone else uses it, things seem fine.
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Oct 5, 2014 19:12
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counterfeitsaint posted:But, the idea that she just so happened to be hallucinating radioactive contamination in Los Alamos of all places seems rather far fetched too. Wait, what? Do you think hallucinations are completely disconnected from a person's current reality and state of mind or something? She hallucinated radioactive contamination everywhere because she's a scientist and immediately understood what was going on when she saw those soldiers being hosed down. I'm not super thrilled with the mental illness b-plot either, but it's not even remotely far fetched that paranoid hallucinations would manifest in the form of something that scared the poo poo out of her that very same day. Edit- The whole reason she got the Geiger counter in the first place is because she saw that the run-off from the decontamination process was just being dumped into the soil. She was already predisposed to thinking that the whole place was contaminated, so of course that's what she hallucinated. Paradoxish fucked around with this message at 00:39 on Oct 6, 2014 |
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Oct 6, 2014 00:35
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This episode seemed a bit muddled by dragging everyone into some conspiracy of some sort and mostly focusing on the current interpersonal dramas. The loss of Magpie seemed like it would have more of an effect throughout the show, but head security is convinced its Winter and will likely try to pin it on him unless someone else is caught.
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Oct 6, 2014 08:25
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In the annals of No Limit Texas Hold 'Em-style poker, depicted both fictionally and non-fictionally, raising one's bet with "the invention of the microwave" sure must be high on the list.
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Oct 6, 2014 10:51
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Fun episode, not crazy about the ending. Hopefully the finale is good. Any word on how WGN is feeling about the ratings?
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Oct 13, 2014 05:16
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Fooz posted:Fun episode, not crazy about the ending. Hopefully the finale is good. Any word on how WGN is feeling about the ratings? Ratings are pretty low, but WGN has put a lot of eggs into this basket so it's almost certain to get a second season.
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Oct 13, 2014 08:38
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pentyne posted:Ratings are pretty low, but WGN has put a lot of eggs into this basket so it's almost certain to get a second season. You're right. I bet they wouldn't move to cancel it until after it's aired on Netflix, or Hulu, or Amazon (whoever they have a deal with). If those numbers are low they might cancel, but they have too much invested in it to cancel now. Plus it's actually good. Salem would be more of a target for WGN to cancel than Manhattan.
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Oct 13, 2014 10:34
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Aww I liked Akley  I do hope the show gets renewed as it's probably been the biggest pleasant surprise of the year for me. Although I don't even know where the show would go during season 2 given the limited time frame they have to work with. I mean, at a certain point the bombs are properly designed, built, and tested right? I wonder if season 2 would do a time jump or go the complete opposite way and have every episode basically be days apart.
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Oct 13, 2014 10:37
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VDay posted:Aww I liked Akley I'm hoping they deal with the aftermath and the scientists dealing with what they've made. Then it's on to the hydrogen bomb!
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Oct 13, 2014 12:02
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VDay posted:Aww I liked Akley In the real timeline, there's about a year between the first plutonium arriving at Los Alamos and Thin Man being abandoned, and about another year between Thin Man being abandoned and the Trinity Test. So if they kept roughly the same pace against the real timeline (though there's no reason to expect that they should) a second season could end with Trinity (which would be a good season finale which could double, if need be, for a series finale). They wouldn't have to do any jumps forward to get there, at least.
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Oct 13, 2014 18:27
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I liked it. It was a surprise series out of nowhere and turned out pretty well. It took liberties with the actual story but hey, of course you have to do that to add drama and turn it into a television show. Most of the characters are likeable and the threat each week is different enough (and not all hung up on spies each week) to not become boring, plus some good actors helps too. I assume it'll get a second season as the sets are already built and would only need expanding (at least in cgi establishing shots) for a second season. Edit: Oh, one more episode left, good. drunkill fucked around with this message at 11:09 on Oct 14, 2014 |
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Oct 14, 2014 10:45
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the new jazz posted:In the real timeline, there's about a year between the first plutonium arriving at Los Alamos and Thin Man being abandoned, and about another year between Thin Man being abandoned and the Trinity Test. So if they kept roughly the same pace against the real timeline (though there's no reason to expect that they should) a second season could end with Trinity (which would be a good season finale which could double, if need be, for a series finale). They wouldn't have to do any jumps forward to get there, at least. I expect the season finale to be mostly Frank in a shitload of trouble because the Intelligence head thinks he killed Eckley and it'll take Charlie confronting the head general with the reality of the impossibility of Thin Man and Winter getting cleared when Oppenheimer confirms the data. Or something similarly super dramatic. The whole point behind implosion is that the English studied it for years and couldn't crack it but with Charle, Winter, and the entire science-power of Los Alamos grinding away its a real possibility. To be honest, I'm looking forward to the finale/episode with the Trinity test. I would love to see the reactions between the people working on the bomb knowing on a intellectual level what it will do when faced with the reality of the most overwhelmingly destructive force ever created by human hands.
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Oct 14, 2014 10:51
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I watched the pilot but couldn't really get into it. Now that the first season is almost over, should I give it another go?
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Oct 14, 2014 11:10
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Josh Lyman posted:I watched the pilot but couldn't really get into it. Now that the first season is almost over, should I give it another go? I'd say watch a few more episodes. This show and The Knick are my 2 favorite new shows, and more people need to watch this.
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Oct 14, 2014 15:21
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pentyne posted:I expect the season finale to be mostly Frank in a shitload of trouble because the Intelligence head thinks he killed Eckley Unlikely, since Frank is currently not covered in blood and the gun is in a closed car with Akley. It'd be quite the impossible rube goldberg contraption that'd make this anything but a suicide. I liked Akley. One aspect I enjoy about this show's drama is that between Reed Akley and Frank Winter, neither is "the bad guy" in their battle with each other. It really came across that Akley was fighting a war from Command HQ while Frank Winter was fighting a daily battle from the trenches. Plus this was reinforced by having flashbacks to Frank actually in trenches! Dramatic parallels!
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Oct 14, 2014 16:34
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Factor Mystic posted:Unlikely, since Frank is currently not covered in blood and the gun is in a closed car with Akley. It'd be quite the impossible rube goldberg contraption that'd make this anything but a suicide. They've established that Frank was in the General's office that day claiming Thin Man would fail and he's got proof, which the general didn't believe, plus head Intelligence guy has it out for Frank and will certainty take the investigation into the realm of "You tried to sabotage his project, and when that didn't work you figured you'd cut off the head". His only hope is Charlie can sway the people in charge that Frank has been right all along, Eckley's been hiding the Thin Man failures, and now that he'd be exposed Eckley couldn't take it. Josh Lyman posted:I watched the pilot but couldn't really get into it. Now that the first season is almost over, should I give it another go? The pilot was good, but then the show because really, really great. There's maybe 2-3 weak episodes in the series so far, given that its a first season and even the weak episodes are still good on their own but absolutely dwarfed by the brilliance that occurs during this show. Episodes 2 and 3 started the rapid upward climb and then episode 4 blew the doors off, like it was one of the best hours of television all season. pentyne fucked around with this message at 16:51 on Oct 14, 2014 |
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Oct 14, 2014 16:48
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Oh so this just got renewed. Yay
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Oct 14, 2014 20:34
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Just binged through the show and absolutely loved it. The cast is friggin' amazing. I will admit to fast-forwarding past some of Abby's plot, because it was just too outside the general plot for me to care.
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Oct 15, 2014 20:18
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Factor Mystic posted:One aspect I enjoy about this show's drama is that between Reed Akley and Frank Winter, neither is "the bad guy" in their battle with each other. Yeah, I really liked this too. There would be moments where I was sure the show was about to pigeonhole one of them into some stereotype, but it'd always come back around and add more depth to their characters instead. I still have my problems with this show, but it's just so well done in so many ways.
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Oct 16, 2014 00:28
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Factor Mystic posted:I liked Akley. One aspect I enjoy about this show's drama is that between Reed Akley and Frank Winter, neither is "the bad guy" in their battle with each other. It really came across that Akley was fighting a war from Command HQ while Frank Winter was fighting a daily battle from the trenches. The only "bad guy" is Tobias the head intel guy, but its his job to see spies around every corner and question the slightest irregularity. His treatment of Liao and then much later Liao's wife was brutally cold but completely within the bounds of reason for a guy who's job it is keep America safe.
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Oct 16, 2014 07:04
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Toby Ziegler is going to find out who leaked the info about the
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Oct 16, 2014 07:23
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This really is a absolutely fantastic show. It'd be nice to see some more reactions outside of Los Alamos, but I like it being it's own little world. I also think it's good that the main characters are fictitious. Also, if people don't know and christ this is not spoilers it's been 70 years, there was in fact a spy a very famous spy that was at Los Alamos and was later caught. Also pretty sure Richard Feynman will be showing up at some point. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Feynman I really hope they have someone play Feynman.
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Oct 20, 2014 02:15
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Brilliant season of television.
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Oct 20, 2014 11:36
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Rarrgh posted:Brilliant season of television. They must have known they'd get a second season, because that finale was amazing but it was mostly a set-up for what comes next.
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Oct 20, 2014 13:14
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Ending felt very "please don't cancel us". Would have preferred it didn't just end on a cliffhanger. Season was great otherwise.
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Oct 20, 2014 20:55
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Yeah, I did not see that coming at all, it really was a pretty much perfect season.
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Oct 21, 2014 01:21
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Hollismason posted:Yeah, I did not see that coming at all, it really was a pretty much perfect season. The AV Club gave the final episode a B+ in a full review and the season an overall A-. Time Magazine posted an article about how great the show was as well. I'm hoping the hype builds up over the next year as people give the show a chance on Netflix/Hulu/Amazon Prime or buy the DVDs. I seriously doubt that the Emmys will nominate any part of the show for an award despite that fact that Manhattan clearly deserves a nod in the set design category at least.
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Oct 21, 2014 13:16
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Yeah the finale and whole season have been fantastic. Really glad we're getting a second season as that finale would've been a hell of a cliffhanger. Kind of a shame that the show's on WGN and not AMC or FX or a premium channel, but good on them for making something this good.
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Oct 21, 2014 19:54
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VDay posted:Yeah the finale and whole season have been fantastic. Really glad we're getting a second season as that finale would've been a hell of a cliffhanger. Kind of a shame that the show's on WGN and not AMC or FX or a premium channel, but good on them for making something this good. Well, it wasn't so long ago that AMC or FX putting out premium original drama was a strange and unlikely idea, and their opening offerings were basically the strongest they've put out too, so let's be glad WGN is getting in the game and hope there's more to come. Manhattan needs a little ironing out but I am fond of it, I feel like it found a niche somewhere between Mad Men and The Americans while having its own strong sense of purpose. Admittedly I know very little about physics so it's only really the language anachronisms that can ever bother me in terms of sheer pedantry. Who did people take Meeks to be working for, by the way? I presumed the Soviets, because that's both more historical and dramatically greyer (to me anyway). The AV Club reviewer has him as the alleged Nazi spy, though, which would seem a pretty heavy heel turn. I suppose the writers don't even have to have made up their minds yet necessarily.
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Oct 21, 2014 22:48
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