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We might generously suppose that since the Hagane is meant as a Deep Space exploration vessel it's equipped to go at measurable-fractions-of-light speeds and deal with possible space debris it'd run into in regions away from gravitational sources or something, so it'd be pretty well armored and all. Even though we actually know they probably meant "well it goes into SPACE so it must be super-air tight that means it's really well protected from air pressure!"
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Sep 28, 2014 09:05
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Coolguye posted:The pressure stuff they were talking about makes something resembling sense, but only if you ignore anything past the idea that both are solving a pressure problem. In space, since it's a hard vacuum outside the ship, any atmosphere you have inside the craft desperately wants to get out of it. However, the atmosphere inside is only 1 bar because that's the pressure humans prefer. You could actually punch through an Apollo era orbiter's 'armor' with a stiff kick on the landing pad. I think the pressure thing might make more sense if the Hagane was meant to enter the atmosphere of other planets. That would be a situation where the outside pressure could be significantly higher than Earth's.
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Sep 28, 2014 09:31
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Coolguye posted:In fact, every 10m you are underwater, it's another atm (or bar) of pressure being exerted on your craft. So while a space ship's pressure requirements are 1 bar of pressure going out...at 2500m, the pressure requirements are 250 bar going in. "Dear Lord! That's over 150 atmospheres of pressure!" "How many atmospheres can the ship withstand?" "Well, it's a space ship, so I'd say anywhere between zero and one."
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Sep 28, 2014 10:24
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S.D. posted:"Dear Lord! That's over 150 atmospheres of pressure!" I was just about to post this. Futurama summarizes it the best. Alternately, maybe its going full Victorian Sci-fi and having an interstellar medium that the ship has to withstand. Agean90 fucked around with this message at 16:25 on Sep 28, 2014 |
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Sep 28, 2014 16:23
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Agean90 posted:Alternately, maybe its going full Victorian Sci-fi and having an interstellar medium that the ship has to withstand.
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Sep 28, 2014 16:37
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Fresh off my first forum probing, here's a little info about our good captains. Original Origins: The Captains  The captains and crews of the Hagane and Hiryu are new to the Original Generation games (there's typically only room for a couple battleships in an SRW game, and they're usually spoken for by Gundam series), but influences from other series are pretty plainly evident. Daitetsu takes his inspiration from captains like Juzo Okita (Space Battleship Yamato, plus sequels) and Bruno J. Global (SDF Macross). There's the visual similarities - uniform, impressive hat, facial hair, smoking at people. They also occupy similar character roles as old veterans, burdened by the sins of their past, called to reluctantly take command of new ships (always described as "humanity's last hope") in the heat of battle. For his part, the by-the-book yet perpetually exasperated Tetsuya comes off as a young Captain Bright (Mobile Suit Gundam). As people have already pointed out, the Hiryu crew and captain are a nod to the title ship from Martian Successor Nadesico, the ship with the biggest crew of misfits in the galaxy (aside from every other series that has that premise). Rather than corresponding to the Nadesico's captain Yurika, Lefina is closer to Ruri's role instead - that of the only sane person on the ship, eternally put-upon and overridden by the antics of everybody else. Meanwhile, Sean Webley can be seen in the traditional dirty-old-man role in every other anime series ever released. Voice Actors Daitetsu: Hidekatsu Shibata (Kingpin from Police Academy: The Animated Series) Tetsuya: Jin Horikawa (Richter Belmont from Castlevania: Rondo of Blood. No funnies here) Eita: Hirofumi Tanaka (who was going to be in a series unironically titled Cat poo poo One before it got cancelled) Lefina: Junko Iwao (Also nothing funny, unless you count the college kid's girlfriend from The Brave Little Toaster) Sean: Kan Tanaka (Parappa the Rapper had a TV series. He was in it) Eun: Shiho Kawaragi (Isabella from Phineas and Ferb, among other things)
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Sep 29, 2014 05:24
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Seyser Koze posted:Fresh off my first forum probing, here's a little info about our good captains. I really like the Hagane, I could always take or leave the Hiryu, but the Hagane was always a pretty kick rear end ship. (but Lefina is an amazing support pilot. which means she really fits her roll.
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Sep 29, 2014 05:56
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I always liked the Hiryuu more, I guess I just had better luck with Lefina managing to hit and take hits. Daitetsu needed a lot of babysitting to hit anything. Best SRW battleship is still the Mother Vanguard from Alpha 2, though.
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Sep 29, 2014 06:08
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MarsDragon posted:I always liked the Hiryuu more, I guess I just had better luck with Lefina managing to hit and take hits. Daitetsu needed a lot of babysitting to hit anything. That's not the Nadesico.
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Sep 29, 2014 06:15
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Personally, I can't wait until the Valstork hits the OG universe.
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Sep 29, 2014 06:30
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Onmi posted:That's not the Nadesico. Does the Battle 7 even enter this conversation? I just remember it dodging everything
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Sep 29, 2014 06:33
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vibratingsheep posted:Does the Battle 7 even enter this conversation? I just remember it dodging everything The problem is that the Battle 7 itself is not that impressive, what's impressive is the man piloting it. Max is pretty OP.
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Sep 29, 2014 06:43
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Excuse me,
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Sep 29, 2014 07:56
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Huh. Well, that was an interesting idea for a mission. Carrier solo!
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Sep 29, 2014 08:25
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Onmi posted:That's not the Nadesico. The Nadesico is pretty cool but it's not literally a space pirate ship that fires broadsides and rams enemies, so the Mother Vanguard is still better.
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Sep 29, 2014 16:43
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Broken Loose posted:Excuse me, As long as we're tossing around spoilers for other games, when I said the Valstork I actually meant that I liked Valguard the best. The Valcazard is cool but it just doesn't measure up for me-- especially with that one uppercut move the Valguard has.
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Sep 29, 2014 19:46
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vibratingsheep posted:Does the Battle 7 even enter this conversation? I just remember it dodging everything Essentially, for those unaware, in D and especially Alpha 3, Max was balanced with his personal Sturmvogel in mind, not both it AND the Battle 7. So, what you get is a pilot made to be in a dodgy transforming fighter plane (the Sturmvogel), and not a clunky transforming aircraft carrier (the Battle 7). As a result, during Max's stint as captain, the Battle 7 will have excellent dodge and accuracy rates thanks to its lead pilot's wonderful stats. Afterwards, it loses a lot of its survivability because Exedol/Exedore (the first mate) is balanced more like a traditional battleship captain. Of course, if we want crazy battleships, the Nadesico is pretty much the go-to for that, especially its SRW J version. Access to all but one of the spirit commands in the game, with a few duplicates as well (no one on the ship gets Soul, ironically enough), weapons that 99% of the enemy units have no real hard counter for, and a game AI that will target it over other units because of AI coding (the AI goes for the least mobile unit on the field first, which is usually a battleship) all make for a hilariously broken unit. And that's before it gets the Y-Unit upgrade.
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Sep 29, 2014 23:42
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Placing my feet firmly in the Valstork camp for best OG battleship. As for series ships, I'll have to stick with the Mother Vanguard if only because of the BGM. 
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Sep 30, 2014 00:27
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Kyosuke Route: Mission 9 Kyosuke's killscore is looking promising, although he still needs another 30 kills to qualify for that secret. Also, he's going to be getting some competition in the must-be-fed-kills department before too long.   I mentioned being underwhelmed by Excellen's evasion on the last mission, so I drop a few bucks to finish maxing out the Weissritter's mobility. And then, because there's no kill like overkill, I drop a few more bucks on the shotgun.  So, it's probably time to start talking about pilot upgrades. Pilots earn Pilot Points whenever they kill something. Additionally, every pilot on the roster gets a 5 PP bonus for each battle mastery that you collect. With Kyosuke being around the longest and hogging all the kills, he has a pretty commanding lead over everyone else.  Once you have them you can use them to raise your stats, upgrade a pilot's terrain rankings, and purchase skills. My first pilot upgrade is typically to buy the Support Attack skill for every pilot who doesn't get it naturally. Right now that's Kyosuke and Katina, so there we go. Let's get started.   Bian videoconferences with Maier; it seems the colonies' efforts are complementing the DCs' strategy well. Meanwhile, Bian is still at work establishing the core of their military power. He's been keeping a careful eye on the Hagane and the Hiryu Kai: two battleships designed for ISA tactics, with a complement of personal troopers and mixed forces capable of deployment. This strategy - penetrating the enemy's defensive lines at a single point - may be the Aerogaters' Achilles heel (as Maier puts it, a force to defy not only the enemy, but common tactical sense as well).   Elzam is also present, and Maier instructs him to continue assisting Bian by whatever means necessary. There's still the matter of his brother Raidiese, who Maier remarks is "just as stubborn as your mother ever was." Elzam doesn't know if he can be brought to understand their reasons for fighting; should their paths cross again, Maier will leave it to his elder son's judgement. It's a bloodstained path that they're walking... but this time, perhaps, there is a chance.   "Father--- ah, Commander..." "I would not have you be the one to pull the trigger for a second time. ...No, fatherly affection has no purpose in these times. Forget I said anything."   Elzam doesn't seem very inclined to do that. Maier says his farewells to Bian, who reflects silently that his counterpart in space is a parent as well. No time to dwell on such things now, though - there's somebody he has to meet.  Oh, come on. This is just insulting.   Our mystery guest has been gently caress it, I can't do this. It's Sanger. You know it's Sanger, I know it's Sanger, the developers know it's Sanger, they all know that we all know it's Sanger, and yet they're going to keep him as "???" for the duration of this mission. Sanger has been brought to Meteor 3's impact crater - where everything began, Bian dramatically informs him upon their meeting. Sanger recognizes Bian on sight; can Bian assume that his presence here means that he's recognized the Divine Crusaders' military superiority? Sanger remains silent to that.   "What do you see?" "..." "This sphere is beautiful... but now, it faces a grave threat. Only in unity can we hope to fight against it." "The Divine Crusaders have shattered that unity." "Does the Federation have the resolve and the will to protect this world? To protect all of it? They withheld EOTI's findings from the public, kept secret the enemy forces arrayed against us..." "..." "The people's eyes must be opened. That is why we fight - the reason for the trial we've created." "You speak of... sacrificing a pawn, to protect the Earth?" (Actually it's a Go stone.) "Or else seize control for ourselves." "..."  "How fair doth Nature appear again, how bright the sunbeams... A poem from a bygone era, by a poet who shared my love of the Earth. If you would walk my path, first think long and hard on the reason." "..."  Everything to this point is new. The original version had about a four-line exchange between Bian and Maier, with Maier saying "Yup, looks like I'll be the boss of Kyosuke's route." Instead we get a scene that's mostly focused on Maier's relationship with Elzam, and some more hinting at the source of Rai's issues with his family. Then we get the scene of Bian meeting with DEFINITELY NOT SANGER, which is less about Sanger than about Bian's motivations. Personally I think it gives away a bit too much too early, but again, this is a remake of a game that re-used the oldest original storyline in the SRW franchise, so this is as much a bone thrown to longtime fans as anything.When Bian talks about the Earth or about what needs to be protected, he refers to it as "this star." I generally take this to mean that he views the solar system, or at least the area of space around the Earth, as humanity's domain. Unless 3rd OG reveals that he was actually an alien all along or something similar. vibratingsheep posted:
Also, the poem Bian quotes is Goethe's May Song. If he hadn't come right out afterward and said it was a poem I'd still be tearing my hair out trying to make sense of it.    <insert tasteless joke about senior citizens' bodily functions> Adler has just received the happy news that to reduce collateral damage, Bian is only allowing a handful of troops to go to space, so he's just going to have to make do. Adler's intelligence places the Hiryu Kai on course to Merritt Island, where some Federation remnants are preparing a shuttle. He's already dispatched Tenzan to the shuttle base - a decision Tempest still can't approve of given the gaming nerd's tendency towards friendly fire. Elzam notes that with the Hiryu in the area, there's no guarantee that Tenzan can even reach the shuttle. Tempest suggests just glassing the area with a MAPW, demonstrating that he and Elzam have starkly different definitions of acceptable collateral damage.   Then not-Sanger volunteers to handle the issue, causing Adler to have a minor conniption. Sanger responds that this will serve to prove his devotion; when Adler still protests, he says all he'll need is a single Lion (which doesn't reassure the old guy very much, but Sanger says that DEATH ONLY STRENGTHENS HIS RESOLVE  ). Bian is impressed enough to give the go-ahead, but tells Sanger to "let them find their own way to outer space." I guess in defense of mystery-Sanger here, I should point out that in the original version, the hidden-face face was a generic human outline with a big question mark on it, so you really couldn't tell who it was. Mission 9: Envoy from the Moon   Gilliam tells Radha Bairaban that the Hiryu is inbound, though it's going to be tight. They've managed to recapture the shuttle pad, but the area is still DC-controlled; if the enemies realize they're launching a shuttle, they'll be all over them, so it's on them to keep the launchpad protected until launch.   Radha's acknowledgement is a little pained, but when Gilliam asks, she says everything's all right; she's just practicing a few yoga asanas, but the Schutzwald has such a cramped cockpit... Gilliam warns her not to be stuck under the seat when the enemies arrive, which prompts her to invite him to help her out. No time for that, though, because the enemies are here!   And it's a very menacing eight jets. Looks like Gilliam's going to have to do the tuning on his Mk.II in combat. Warning Radha to watch the south ("I know," she says, using her magical yoga powers), he tells everybody to watch the launchpad, and we're off!   Objectives. Keep the enemies off the shuttle pad; losing either pilot fails the mission. Kill everything within seven turns for the mastery. This is actually the trickiest mastery to date (Tempest's 4-HP antics from the previous mission notwithstanding) although it doesn't look it at first.   Here's our people. Gilliam and Radha both have Foresight, which gives a hit/evasion bonus when they're about 130 morale; more fun still, they both have SP Regen! Every turn they recover 10 SP, meaning you can pretty much cast Focus every turn without running dry.   Turn 1, everybody moves. Radha goes south, Gilliam heads west.  Turn 2, Gilliam says that the Hiryu should arrive in two minutes - but we can expect more enemies as well.   Time to get to work. Radha has Alert and Focus for 10 SP. Her Schutzwald is identical to Rai's, aside from the paint job. She doesn't have Rai's Genius skill, so even with Focus she can't quite get a 100% hitrate (until you have enough morale to trigger Foresight). This means you can conceivably fail the mission due to getting screwed by the RNG.     It works out, though.  Radha got a new theme for the remake. I like it, but it's a bit BWAAAAOOOONGGGG at the beginning.   Gilliam's Gespenst Mk.II-R is quite a bit more maneuverable than the normal model. Plus he's Gilliam, so he doesn't have any trouble pewpewing stuff to death. He's getting the same numbers as Radha here without using Focus.  Unfortunately, he only gets Time to Come as a theme.   Enemy phase. Gilliam's pack of enemies will attack him (and die) after moving. Radha's pack ignores her completely.   That being the case, we're going to have to gradually back towards the base while picking the enemies off. Gilliam's Hit & Away skill makes this easy, while Radha has a long enough range with her shoulder cannons to catch anybody who passes her.   Turn 3 enemy phase, only two jets left, which means it's time for more bad guys. Tenzan's bitching about getting stationed in an area the DCs already controlled, but hey look! There are people to kill after all! And one's the original Gespenst Mk. II! And there's a Schutzwald too! He's caught a rare monster!    His glee at finding them is a bit surprising, but they are piloting antiques, after all. Unfortunately the Mk.II-R never made it into mass production due to meddling from the EOT Council, so Gilliam had to lug this prototype with him from the moon. Then again, this may work to their advantage - if Tenzan's so in love with their machines, he won't want to harm them if he can help it, and it'll buy time for the Hiryu to arrive.  In the original version Gilliam was telling filthy lies and Tenzan's entire force will come for you immediately. Here, the only part of his entourage to move is the tanks. This will become significant before long.   Turn 4, the Hiryu is here, making Tenzan's mood even better. Gilliam hails the ship and asks Lefina to defend the launch pad, but says there'll be time to explain the importance of this particular shuttle later. Given that Gilliam was an Aggressor, just like Sanger (and Elzam, and Tempest), Kyosuke has his doubts about his trustworthiness.   Upon seeing the Alt, Tenzan snarls something about how the brooding beetle mech showed up again. (Excellen figures "brooding" refers to Kyosuke and "beetle" refers to the Alteisen, in case anybody was confused.) Katina's ready to kick Tenzan's fat face in; seeing how young and lively the crew is, Radha figures she should teach them some asanas later. Meanwhile, Gilliam wonders where Sanger is; isn't he supposed to be their leader?  Now that the cavalry's here, we're free to lose anyone. Yay.   So we have two jets almost in the base at this point. I send Katina over to help take them out so that Gilliam and Radha can maybe start heading for the enemies and... well, I'll save you some time and say that I ended up not making the battle mastery on my first attempt. All those Lions and Landlions in the corner? They don't move. At all. So I ended up with Kyosuke being the only one over there (still being the only guy with Accelerate) and then he was facing down Tenzan's 18000-HP Guarlion Custom solo. On turn 7.    On my second attempt, I dump all of my movement-increasing items on Katina and then line things up so that she and Kyosuke deploy closest to Tenzan's little posse. Also, during the initial phase with the jets, I take advantage of the fact that the western jets will attack on their turn and have Gilliam stay closer to the base, helping out Radha with her enemies and letting his own enemies suicide-charge him. This ends up letting Radha and Gilliam both be farther forward, since most of the enemies are dead sooner and Excellen can finish off the one who's left on her way towards Tenzan.  Aside from that, on Turn 4 Kyosuke and Katina both rush the Lions, while Gilliam and Radha engage the tanks in the middle of the map.  By Turn 5, the Lions haven't budged an inch (  ) while the tanks have been wiped out.  Turn 5, moving closer; Kyosuke and Katina are just within firing range of the nearest Landlions.    Revolver stake is due for some upgrades too.   Radha moves up and is just within railgun range of the Lions. Everybody else moves up too.  Turn 5, enemy phase. Enemies attack us.  At the start of Turn 6, things are unchanged except that there are fewer Lions on the field and Radha has a higher killscore. Also, Kyosuke finished off that Landlion he attacked earlier (and learned Strike in the process), but everybody else came after him from out of range. Jerks.   It looks like we can count on the grunts to get themselves killed on the next enemy phase, so the plan is to have anybody who can reach Tenzan focus on him instead. Kyosuke takes the first shot at our yellow-suited friend.   Tenzan taunts Kyosuke for losing his base, and the Federation fleet as well, but says not to worry - they'll all be reunited in Hell soon enough!    Yeah, okay. That's half of the Alt's health in one hit thanks to the Sonic Breaker. And so, one turn after deciding on my strategy, I decide that there's no way in hell I'm sending Katina after him and have her kill a nice safe Lion instead.   I'm really not kidding. He'll kill Katina in one hit from full health if he hits her - which he will, because he has a 100% hitrate on her. A problem with Katina is that she's a pretty serious glass cannon, having no survivability spirits to speak of - no Alert, no Grit, no Guard... hell, she doesn't even have Focus. Kyosuke has Focus. Tetsuya has Focus, and he's on a drat battleship! Katina's survivability comes from a) never getting counterattacked, because she kills enemies before they get the chance, and b) getting Russell to take hits in her place.   Speaking of which, since Russell does have Guard, I have him cast it and park next to Kyosuke, doing a little repair work in the process.        And then on the enemy phase, Tenzan misses his 80% shot anyway.  Thankfully the claymores did much better damage than the Revolver Stake did.  The rest of the enemies die right on schedule, except for one straggler who Bullet finishes off at the beginning of Turn 7.   Pretty much everybody except Kyosuke (and maybe even him, now that Tenzan's morale is higher) will fold up like paper against the Guarlion Custom's Sonic Breaker, so I start off with people who don't have to worry about getting hit. Gilliam has the Sense spirit - a two-for-one deal giving you Alert and Strike at the same time - so he leads the charge.   "Once I kill you, I'm taking that Gespenst!" "Sorry. A lot of hard work and ingenuity went into building this mech. It's not for you to take!"     Good start. Kyosuke uses his new Support Attack skill to follow up.    I knew there was a damage penalty on supports, but I didn't think it was THAT bad... Excellen and the Hiryu are conveniently out of his range, so I have them do their thing next.   (Atlus) "Crazy as ever, huh?" "Crazy like a fox! You gotta have fun in life, you know?" Nobody likes Lefina enough to say anything to her.    And then we'll have Katina round out the beatdown in proper Katina Valor-and-Strike-enhanced fashion.   "God, this guy's annoying! Can't he ever just shut up?" "Have fun while you can - that's my motto! Deal with it!" "Oh yeah? I've got one of those too: piss me off, get a boot up your rear end!"   rear end successfully booted.   Tenzan blames the Guarlion for his most recent defeat - he needs something more appropriate to his style. Kyosuke suggests he just try training, to which he blusters that if he'd done that, we'd all be dead now. Promising to be back for more later, he ejects.     Kyosuke thinks that only somebody like Tenzan could enjoy war enough to actively seek it out. This brings him back to dark thoughts about the enemies they're facing - Dr. Zoldark's forces, the colonial military, and now Sanger - what's their endgame? Gilliam notes with some relief that the shuttle is still intact.   And then Eun reports an object approaching at speed.   WHO IS THAT MASKED MAN   The single Lion rushes the shuttle and makes stuff blow up. His duty done, he leaves just as suddenly.   Lefina asks for a damage report; the shuttle's cargo bay is unharmed, but the launchpad is completely unusable. Sean considers the possibility that Tenzan's force was a decoy to lure them away from the base. Just as quickly, he discounts his own idea. The mech was most likely operating alone, and furthermore, he recognized its maneuvers - a sentiment that former Aggressor Gilliam echoes. It was Sanger, and it's looking more and more likely that he really did betray them. Kyosuke still has his doubts; has their commander really turned against them for his own sake?    Gilliam thanks Lefina and Sean for their timely arrival; he'd feared they wouldn't make it, but Lefina attributes their performance to her crew - and the help they received from Langley. Hearing this, Gilliam's mood darkens - the situation is spiraling further and further out of control, with Sanger's defection being only the latest in a long line of setbacks. Lefina wants to have faith in their former comrade - a feeling that Gilliam respects, and even approves of, though they both know that the reality can't be ignored.   Meanwhile, Kyosuke has suspicions of his own about Gilliam's loyalties as an ex-Aggressor. Excellen thinks he's just being paranoid, and Radha adds that one's prejudices can blind one to the truth. Seeing the crew's reactions to this other unfamiliar face, Gilliam introduces her as Radha Bairaban, an employee of Mao Industries. She's here on Earth working on a new mech; the shuttle's cargo includes machine parts and supplies for Mao's headquarters on the moon.   Hearing this, Lefina asks if the situation in space is so bad that Mao can't get supplies from the colonies. Quite to the contrary, the atmosphere in the colonies is much more stable, as everybody there supports the colonial military, who've been the ones protecting them while they were largely ignored by the Federation. Furthermore, their military was once part of the Federation forces, meaning that the colonial forces vastly outnumber the Feds in space. (It's proverb time again, with Excellen saying that this is like being bitten by your pet cat - it's your pet dog, actually, Kyosuke corrects her.) This all paints a grim picture for Mao Industries, one of the only Federation holdouts in space, but Ring Mao isn't planning on surrender anytime soon - hence the need to travel all the way down to the Earth to procure supplies. As an agent with Federation intelligence, Gilliam has been collecting information on the state of affairs in space - the Feds can't afford to lose this new machine in development, on top of all their other losses.   Lefina is silent for a moment. Then, after confirming with Eun that the shuttle's cargo is undamaged, she orders it transferred to the Hiryu Kai; once everything is aboard, they're setting a course for the moon. It's actually Excellen who questions this first, but when Lefina asks if there's a problem, she just mumbles something about how she likes the view of the moon better from down here. Well, Kyosuke says, now she'll be able to see it up close. Sean takes another look at Radha and says that they'll probably be getting a look at the moon bunnies, too!  This seems like a little bit of a non-sequitur because it's another one of those obscure-ish Japanese culture things. Basically, where Western cultures looked at the moon from Earth and saw a face (the man in the moon), the Japanese looked at it and saw a silhouette of a rabbit pounding mochi. Hence, according to Japanese folklore, the moon has rabbits living on it. Also, Sean being Sean.   Radha does a straight "I'm sorry, I don't follow..." to Sean's innuendo, thus letting us move on with the scene in less time than it took anybody to read the above. In any case, given the utter chaos on the Earth, they can't expect any support from Federation headquarters in Geneva - but with Langley destroyed, it's not like there's anyplace else they can go. Gilliam thanks Lefina for her decision to help, and the crew makes ready for departure.   At DC headquarters, Tenzan is seething at being used by Sanger. He yells for somebody to tell him where that old bastard is - only to have Sanger tell him to be quiet and let the maintenance crew focus on their work. Tenzan snarls that he doesn't get to act like he's been put in charge, but it seems Bian has actually done just that. That being said, Sanger understands his doubts about his loyalty, and assures him that he has no intention but to carry out his duty.   Seeing Elzam, Tenzan tries to complain to him about the mission - only to be told that Sanger made the best decision possible ("...because he thinks things through, something you could stand to learn."  ) As far as Tenzan's concerned, this is just because they're both Aggressors; it looks like once you've become washed-up has-beens, you've got to watch each other's backs.   Tenzan stomps out, and Elzam asks Sanger not to take it too personally, as he's only a kid. Sanger didn't, but wonders whether Tenzan understands Bian's vision - or perhaps it's not a question of understanding. Regardless, Elzam says, they must lead him to understand, and the rest of humanity as well. For now, Sanger will pursue the Hiryu Kai to fight his own comrades - just as Elzam will end up facing his brother. Sanger still has much to teach Lefina's crew and the ATX Team, and Elzam has his own battle to fight. Should they live, they will meet again.   We get a pile of weapons dumped on us, along with... another shotgun!  Also a space-based fighter that I'm never going to use and a thruster module that I'll forget to equip.Next time: 
Seyser Koze fucked around with this message at 04:17 on Oct 4, 2014 |
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Oct 4, 2014 03:31
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Seyser Koze posted:When Bian talks about the Earth or about what needs to be protected, he refers to it as "this star." I generally take this to mean that he views the solar system, or at least the area of space around the Earth, as humanity's domain. Unless 3rd OG reveals that he was actually an alien all along or something similar. He's not being that poetic or expansive. The word 星/"hoshi" refers both to both stars and planets. So he's saying "this planet" most of the time, though the man does love his poetry.Translation Nitpicker Squad away! (goes back to translating high school kids in dating games)
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Oct 4, 2014 03:40
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vibratingsheep posted:
SA needs a :themoreyouknow: smiley.  is about as close as it gets, I think.
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Oct 4, 2014 03:55
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God dammit Sanger, you're working for the "obviously evil" faction, look at friggin' Tenzan. And oh, so it's that time already? Next mission REALLY sucks, but has one of my favorite moments in the game.
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Oct 4, 2014 04:49
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Why will Sanger get out of his Grungust for Bian but not for us?
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Oct 4, 2014 05:07
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Yay, Radha, basically the only OG Original character I actually like! (Even though she's kind of a blatant Indian stereotype)
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Oct 4, 2014 05:25
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Dammit, Federation. Why you gotta be dicks to space? Space is all around you!
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Oct 4, 2014 15:45
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See when I first got Radha and her mech I thought it meant that each route would get repaints of the others mechs since I'd only played a bit of Ryusei's route, and was wondering for a while who would be piloting the alternate Alt and Weiss, figuring it might've ended up being Garnet and Giado. ...of course then I found out the Schwartzwald was just a slightly better grunt mech so
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Oct 4, 2014 17:31
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Did they annoyingly shadow-up Sanger's portrait in the GBA version? I seem to remember it just openly showing that he's an enemy by turning his dialogue box from green to red or something.
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Oct 4, 2014 19:48
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Any "unknown" in the GBA games was represented as  with a big white question mark in front of it.
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Oct 4, 2014 21:20
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Yeah, that's what I meant. Although oddly enough, I don't think they did this for any of the other SRW GBA games (like J and those guys...I think they actually used half-shadows or silhouettes or something).
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Oct 5, 2014 06:40
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Digital Jello posted:Yeah, that's what I meant. Although oddly enough, I don't think they did this for any of the other SRW GBA games (like J and those guys...I think they actually used half-shadows or silhouettes or something). I don't know about J, which was sort of straddling the line between the GBA and DS, but I played the beginning of R a couple months ago and I'm pretty sure it used Mystery Bickman as well.
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Oct 5, 2014 07:18
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Digital Jello posted:Yeah, that's what I meant. Although oddly enough, I don't think they did this for any of the other SRW GBA games (like J and those guys...I think they actually used half-shadows or silhouettes or something). Actually, J used the question mark, at the very least OG2 used the half-static portraits. I'm not sure if OG1 does the same but I can always boot it up and check.
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Oct 5, 2014 08:05
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Belatedly, though the Hagane and Shirogane are classified as space ships, as we'll see, they are more akin to all terrain battleships, as we see them operating in space, air, and underwater. Their sister ship, the Kurogane, is even capable of burrowing /underground/ thanks to a redonkulously big drill on front.
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Oct 5, 2014 12:10
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Rorahusky posted:Belatedly, though the Hagane and Shirogane are classified as space ships, as we'll see, they are more akin to all terrain battleships, as we see them operating in space, air, and underwater. That is far to spoilery I think that goes to far man, the people who have never seen that need to experience it whole, and pure, and awesome.
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Oct 5, 2014 12:56
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Onmi posted:Actually, J used the question mark, at the very least OG2 used the half-static portraits. I'm not sure if OG1 does the same but I can always boot it up and check. Okay then, that was my error. It was OG2, not J. I knew one of them did. I never played R, D or those guys outside of the first few chapters because I could never find a translation for them although R's story is heavily emphasized in OG Gaiden. For what it's worth, I hate the question mark-covering-face thing. When multiple question marks are all talking, you have no loving idea what's going on, even on recurring playthroughs, unless some story mechanic is briefly mentioned by accident. I'll take the silhouettes, no matter how obvious it is.
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Oct 5, 2014 19:11
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Ryusei Route: Mission 10  Over the past couple missions we've finally been given a couple of machines worth spending money to upgrade. The money I've got so far goes into upgrading the mobility of the Huckebein 009 and Wildraubtier; since the Wildraubtier's main weapons are energy-based, I boost up its EN as well.  This will be our boomstick.  The Pacific - off the coast of Minami-Torishima  ...Latooni?   "Hey, hold still." "Why do I have to..." "I brought this on the ship with me. Isn't it cute?" "That's not the..." "You're just the right age, this'll fit you perfectly. All the boys will love it!" "I d-don't care about that!" "Mm-hmm, of course you don't. Now hold still!" "I'm serious..." "...All right, all that's left is the makeup. Oh, you're going to be so adorable!"   At this point Latooni has had enough and makes a bolt for freedom. After futilely calling for her to wait, Garnet thinks that it's just too early after all. Giado comes in, wondering what was up with Latooni's getup. ("Oh, just a little fun," Garnet says.) In any case, Ingram wants to talk to them about mech assignments; now that Irm's taking the controls of the Huckebein, his Gespenst has a vacancy, meaning one of them can fill it. Giado's planning to nominate Latooni to take over; even though he's had his eye on the Gespenst for a while, there's no getting around the fact that she's a better pilot.   "Because of her time in the School..." Either way, they'll both get their chance at some point. In the meantime, Latooni should get hers. Suddenly playful (or rather, back to normal), Garnet asks if Giado wants to have a kid like Latooni. This immediately gets him all flustered, and Garnet's promise that she's ready whenever he is doesn't help. Eager to change the subject, he says that they have to track Latooni down and get her changed back into her uniform; if Ingram or Tetsuya comes across her first, there's going to be hell to pay!   Aya asks Ingram for a moment. She's figured out the reason the SRX team is here, participating in this operation: her father's theory on the development of telekinetic powers. Ingram confirms this, leading her to another unpleasant conclusion - Kusuha is here for the same reason! Again, Ingram makes no effort to deny it; according to Dr. Kobayashi's theory, telekinetic power awakens in moments of desperation - like when Ryusei first piloted a PT, for instance. Aya falls silent, and Ingram asks if she blames herself for dragging Ryusei into the war. She can't deny his potential, but none of this sits well with her. Ingram responds that sooner or later, Earth will face another crisis. When that time comes, they'll need pilots like Ryusei... and like her.   At this point Aya confesses that when she interfaces with the T-Link system, she can feel residual thoughts in the memory pool - those of her mother and sister, both of whom died during testing in the early stages of the system's development. Ingram is silent for a moment, then says that these are ghosts of the past, nothing more - and that he's certain she can overcome them. Cheered, she promises to give it her utmost. Is this the right time to bring up that Aya has a love bonus from Ingram during combat?   Meanwhile, Robert is waiting for Latooni to show up so that he can finish the adjustments to her new Gespenst; according to Faceless Grunt, she should be on her way. A moment later Robert spots Ryusei and Rio, in the middle of... something.   Rio can't believe that Ryusei still hasn't had a proper conversation with Kusuha. They've both been busy with their duties, he says - plus, she's been working so hard to be a nurse, and he doesn't want to distract her. Rio isn't having it, and says he'd better man up and go talk to her right now, or else! "Y-yes, ma'am!" he says, before backing away and bumping into... somebody.  Nope, no idea who this is supposed to be. Sorry.   Ryusei apologizes to the girl, but when he asks if she's all right, she just gives him a look and runs off. Baffled, he asks Rio who that was, but she's stumped as well. Further inquiry is cut off - as always - by the alarms. Okay, a couple changes here - related, yet again, to Kusuha. In the original, Garnet's using Latooni as a model while she's trying to come up with an outfit that'll help Kusuha to ensnare Ryusei (Latooni loses her nerve somewhere between the stuffed bunny rabbit accessory and the announcement that they're going full goth-loli) thereby explaining how Latooni ends up decked out in the frilly dress and ribbons. Additionally, Rio's yelling at Ryusei for being mean to Kusuha earlier, whereas in the remake they still haven't really spoken. Small change, but I can't say I disapprove of the decision to not have every other scene be about getting Kusuha and Ryusei together especially since it doesn't work :shh:. Mission 10: Sixteen Years of Hatred It's actually "16 Years' Vengeance." Atlus truncated it to just "Vengeance."Also, no prize for guessing which DC officer we'll be fighting this mission.   Tetsuya's pissed off that the enemies have gotten so close before detection (I'm guessing because Rio was off yelling at Ryusei). Daitetsu is more interested in getting interceptors launched.   ...But all he gets are three machines (the Wildraubtier, the Huckebein 009, and Irm's old Gespenst); apologizing profusely, Rob informs him that it'll be another four minutes before the rest can be launched. Looks like we'll have to make do, and Irm tells Latooni to hang in there.   "Understood." "W-who are you?!" "Huh...?" "Uh... sorry, little lady, have we met somewhere before?" "Y-yes, several times..." "Huh. I thought I never forgot a pretty face. What's your name, sweetheart?"   "...Latooni Suvota?" "  "  Irm can't believe such a pretty girl managed to fly under his radar for so long, and everybody else is similarly shocked to discover that it's her.  Everybody except Tetsuya.  4 turns to kill everybody; losing a single unit gets us a game-over.  On the bright side, there aren't too many enemies arrayed against us; on the not-so-bright side, their behavior is a bit... different, as we'll find out shortly.  It's the moment of truth, Ryusei.  Transformation successful! Ryusei is now officially a better pilot than Kyosuke, clearly. The Raubtier's humanoid mode sports a longer attack range, but the flight mode has much better mobility, so it tends to get the most use from me.  In any case, the flight mode's beam cannon offers a long enough range to hit this entire group of enemies.    I like this mech already.   Daitetsu has a ridiculously expensive Strike (30 SP, so two casts for the whole mission), but the Hagane can't reliably hit the enemies on this mission without it, so there's no choice but to bite the bullet.     The dreaded Huckebein 009 is a pretty decent mech, but it has no built-in weapons and the default loadout gives us a limited range, with post-movement attacks being restricted to two spaces away. Irm can't reach anything from his initial location, so I park him next to the Hagane.  Latooni's stuck in Irm's Gespenst, and not even she can really dodge worth a drat in it. For the moment I park her behind Ryusei and wait, letting him draw the enemies' fire.   That was the plan, anyway. Instead of doing the usual thing and attacking whoever's closest, the enemies on this map seem to have specific targets in mind. Hence this guy completely ignores the Hagane and goes for Irm instead.   The Huckebein is decently evasive (Irm doesn't have Focus but is having no problems), and has another ability that makes it even harder to hit (but which we won't see this mission). Also, the Roche Saber it starts with does a ton of damage for a weapon with no real cost - a good fit for Irm's melee-heavy build.     On the shootier front, Boosted Rifle is nice, sporting a long range and good damage (enough to one-shot a Lion on a crit). It's total overkill here, of course, since this is the Lion the Hagane left with almost no health last turn.  Then the two jets near Irm and the Hagane completely ignore them both to go after Latooni and Ryusei.   And then one of the Lions near Ryusei ignores him to go for the Hagane. He gets one of them, though.  The jets go for the Hagane. Only one actually reaches it - unfortunately for the pilot.  And here's the end of the first enemy phase. On almost any other mission, I'd be done now, because the enemies would've attacked the people they were supposed to and they'd all be dead. Instead, half the enemies are still alive. It's not a hard mission, just on the annoying side. Honestly, the wonky enemy AI is probably meant to keep you from clearing the entire map in a single turn and short-circuiting the arrival of reinforcements, who Eita warns us about here. Irm tells Latooni to stay on her toes, since there's no telling who the enemies will focus their fire upon. In response, she---     By now the enemies are condensed enough that they'll finish themselves off next turn even if I do nothing. Everybody grabs some easy kills; the Hagane goes last and triggers the arrival of the reinforcements a little early.   Tempest has been waiting for this moment - the moment he can take his vengeance on the Federation. The team takes notice of his armored module - similar to the one Elzam was piloting, but it's clearly not his. It's pretty easy to forget when you're playing both routes side-by-side, so it bears pointing out here that this is both Team Ryusei's first time seeing a Guarlion (aside from Elzam's Guarlion Trombe in Mission 8) and its first time meeting Tempest. That said, it's remarkably easy to imagine that Tempest begins every single conversation, regardless of setting, by blathering about how he can't wait to kill him some Feds.   Meanwhile, Tempest knows the Huckebein by its ominous reputation - but no matter. All who lend their aid to the Federation must die, and these will be the first sacrifices to his lost wife and daughter!   And so he settles on the 14-year-old girl, because that's how these things are done.   "All who aid the Federation will die!" Too slow, Tempest.   Latooni recognizes Tempest's maneuvers, and informs the team that they're fighting an Aggressor. Tempest recoils upon discovering that he's fighting a child, thinking that if his Anna were alive, she'd be this pilot's age now. He grapples with his conscience - briefly. Then he roars that he must become a demon - for the sake of all those who have lost their lives due to the Federation's negligence, and for the sake of the hatred he's kept alive these sixteen years!  Anyway, now that Tempest is here, the battle mastery is revised - I need to kill everything except him in four turns to get the point. Also, he showed up after everybody had moved, so I have to go straight into the enemy phase.   The Hagane shreds the rest of the original pack of enemies, leaving just Tempest's posse to go.   Tempest goes straight for Latooni, and he's leading off with the Sonic Breaker. I... don't like these odds, so I have Latooni block instead of dodging.   Tempest's morale started out neutral, so all he has right now is what he gained from the couple of enemies the Hagane killed. The damage will just get worse from here on out.  His accompanying Lions (five of them) head forward. It's Turn 3, and the grunts are what matters here, so I decide to focus on killing them for the moment.   The Raubtier continues to be made of joy.   Irm manages not to crit with the Boosted Rifle, but the Hagane is on the case.   Tempest will continue attacking Latooni, so I have her cast Sense - which gives the effect of Alert, meaning one free dodge - and just have her sit tight for a round. Meanwhile, the Hagane tries and fails to hit something.   Since Latooni doesn't need to worry about dodging this time, she's free to Jet Magnum Tempest in return.     It still doesn't do much damage.   Turn 4, and we can finally launch everybody else. Giado and Garnet's first concern is Latooni's well-being, followed shortly thereafter by punishing the one who threatened her.  Our team deployed all surrounding the enemies, facilitating the imminent death and destruction a bit.   Garnet (with Giado providing backup) takes out one Lion and gets a level.   The Hagane and Giado take out another one, causing Giado to level up and earn Strike.   Then Aya and Latooni team up to bring down the last. Battle mastery get! It's just Tempest now - all 18000 HP of him (minus Latooni's Jet Magnum).There's really not a whole lot to say at this point, except for the requisite "gently caress Sonic Breakers." Dodging Tempest through natural skill isn't a realistic proposition at this point, and the cost of failing a dodge roll is a Sonic Breaker to the face and probably instant death. As a result, you're largely limited to people who can cast either Alert or Sense and pull off a guaranteed dodge.  Irm has Alert.  Ryusei actually has Grit, which works just as well. But I have him Focus instead; to try and get a nonzero hitrate against him, Tempest is using a status weapon instead (which has much higher accuracy). The upgraded-mobility Raubtier is really the only thing that I'd put toe-to-toe with the Guarlion Custom at this point.  Pretty sure Ryusei is the highest-leveled dude on the team now.  I would just like to reiterate that the Schutzwald is probably our most heavily-armored unit, parked on some freaking mountains with a 20% defense bonus, and this is still where it's sitting after one hit from the Sonic Breaker. At maximum cannon range. After this we'll have a respite where I won't have to bitch about Guarlion Customs for a few missions. Promise.   Anyway, after about seven or eight attacks total across two turns (doing around 2000 damage apiece, no matter how strong the weapons were) we're ready to deliver the finishing blow. I have Ingram do the honors, with Tetsuya casting Cheer on him beforehand for double experience.    Boom. Saying that he can't die before his family's spirits have been laid to rest, Tempest flees/ejects/explodes.   I love killing bosses with Cheer. Incidentally, there's a secret later on that requires Ingram to be at a given level, although there's plenty of catchup time before then, so this wasn't really necessary.   Before we can even breathe a sigh of relief, a sub surfaces within easy MAPW range. The crew braces itself - but instead of attacking, the submarine retrieves Tempest and leaves on Bian's orders. Tetsuya can't figure out why, but Daitetsu is silent on the matter.   Following their brush with perdition, the foremost topic on people's minds is... Latooni's makeover. Garnet basks in the glow of the team's approval. Irm says that if he'd known earlier, he would've had a few words for her already; sensing his meaning, Garnet points out her age. ("Hey, that's easily within acceptable limits.")   Enter the subject of Irm's questionable affection, changed back into her uniform. Irm doesn't miss a beat, suggesting that she at least leave the glasses - it's a waste to cover up such pretty eyes. Ignoring that, Latooni says that they're special glasses for data analysis, and that she needs them for her duties, leaving Irm speechless for once.   Ingram asks Garnet for an explanation of all this; realizing that she's in for it now, Garnet just goes for the truth: she was just trying to help Latooni open up to the rest of the crew. Aya starts to speak up on Garnet's behalf; realizing its value as rehabilitation, he decides not to make a greater issue of it.   Garnet: "Oh, Major? What did you think... of her new look?" Ingram: "....." Aya: "G-Garnet?" Irm: "(W-wait, you're asking a hardass like him?)" Ingram: "It... wasn't bad, I suppose." Garnet: "Really? I'm so glad to hear it!" Irm: "(Wait, seriously?)"   ”(Maybe I should try changing my outfit, too. But I don't think those would suit me...)" "There's too much fabric on the shoulders..."    Kusuha and Ryusei have finally gotten a little time to themselves - for the first time since they bumped into each other in the hangar two missions back. She explains that she wanted to study and become a nurse, so she could help those who were sick, injured, and suffering - but while the war continues, the suffering and pain will only increase without end. And so, she's made her decision: to support those who are fighting to bring the war to a close. She didn't know if Ryusei would object, but it's her choice and she's going to see it through.   "Why would I object? Everybody on the ship has their own reason for being here, even a guy like Rai. If you've made up your mind, then go for it. It looks like we'll both have to do our part from now on." "Looks like..." Even more Kusuha-related changes, as you can guess. Since Garnet was just using Latooni as a model for Kusuha in the original, the entire bit with Ingram didn't happen. The following scene with Ryusei and Kusuha basically boils down to him apologizing for being a dick to her and thinking that everybody on the ship is fighting for a reason - Kusuha's entire explanation of her reason for enlisting is gone. So basically, in the remake the writers managed to develop Kusuha's character further while reducing her screentime. Sounds like a win-win to me.In any case, that's all for now. Next time:  
Seyser Koze fucked around with this message at 02:11 on Oct 9, 2014 |
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Oct 9, 2014 01:56
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This mission is the first one that tends to give me trouble. As said, Tempest and his Guarlion are assholes, not helped by Latooni being stuck in a goddamn Gespenst. I never found the 009 very useful or fitting for Irm either, so this is a mission for me where I have two of the best pilots in the game stuck in units that are either unfitting (009) or unfitting and bad (Gespenst). The light in the tunnel is Ryusei, the Wildraubtier is end-game material and never leaves my team the moment it joins it. It's a super-dodgy and fairly powerful unit and Garnet and Lat can get so much use out of it later (I tend to give it to Garnet, Lat has other good choices). Right now, Ryusei is basically the best in your team mostly because of the Wildraubtier (though he's a great pilot either way). Also Lat's adorable and great. Not best OG character (Kai exists, and I'm not entirely sure if Elzam counts as Alpha or OG), but definitely up there. As well... DC: "Hey Tempest" Tempest: "HEY I'M TOTALLY KILLING ALL THOSE FEDS" ...is basically how I expect every Tempest conversation to go as well.
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Oct 9, 2014 02:54
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Seyser Koze posted:Latooni recognizes Tempest's maneuvers, and informs the team that they're fighting an Aggressor. Tempest recoils upon discovering that he's fighting a child, thinking that if his Anna were alive, she'd be this pilot's age now. He grapples with his conscience - briefly. Then he roars that he must become a demon - for the sake of all those who have lost their lives due to the Federation's negligence, and for the sake of the hatred he's kept alive these sixteen years! Tempest himself remarks that Latooni is around the age that his dead daughter would be if she were alive in the present. So, he has a moment where he hesitates and decides if he should continue the attack. Both here and in the Divine Wars anime, Tempest's hesitation over killing a child lasts a mere thirty seconds or so, then he resumes his usual "VENGEANCETM!!" mode. If Banpresto really wanted Tempest to be a villain you felt bad for, this hesitation wouldn't last thirty seconds. No, you'd have this plague Tempest for about several stages before he commits to a decision over whether or not he could muster the courage to fight a 14 year old girl. It's hard enough to tolerate Tempest before this stage, but then this stage straight-up boots what little sympathy the player may have had for Tempest out the door, while expecting the player to continue to feel bad for him after making this decision. I mean, if they included a cutscene where Tempest say, talks about this incident with Elzam and tries to deal with his actions, then maybe his quick acceptance of fighting Latooni wouldn't feel so off-putting. But no, Tempest just marches on and treats this encounter like it was any other fight he's had while working with the Divine Crusaders, leaving no room to develop the fifth member of a team of well-known Personal Trooper pilots. Hell, Kai's been around about as much as Tempest, and he's gotten more development by this point.
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Oct 9, 2014 02:56
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Seyser Koze posted:In any case, that's all for now. Next time: Yes, Sonic Breakers will be the least of your worries soon enough. And Elzam technically appeared here first, before being ported to Alpha 2, though he might have been mentioned in Alpha before that, I don't know.
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Oct 9, 2014 03:03
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Tempest's long internal monologue, worthy of Shakespearean drama as he ponders the nature of war itself as Hamlet once did. Tempest: Can I really do it? Tempest: Can I kill a child? Tempest: Yeah, I guess I can. Deep, man. Deep.
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Oct 9, 2014 03:11
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| # ? Apr 28, 2024 19:15 |
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Hunter Noventa posted:Yes, Sonic Breakers will be the least of your worries soon enough. He was. He actually first appeared in a Shin Super Robot Wars side story that bridged the gap between Shin and Super Robot Spirits (a lovely 3D fighter for the N64 no I'm not kidding), complete with a specially painted Trombe mech. Then he got a mention in Rai's character profile in Alpha along with Maier, then he finally actually appears in a game here. I guess it's a bit debatable which of those counts as a "first appearance", but I go for the side story. Kai also appeared in that same side story, in case anyone was wondering where he came from. He doesn't do much, but Ryusei does report to a Major Kai Kitamura at one point. AradoBalanga posted:Okay, here is where I lose any feelings for Tempest, and also where Banpresto's attempts to make Tempest into a sympathetic and tragic villain straight up derail into a ditch and bursts into flames. It doesn't even make sense. The colonies got independence about two years ago in-story. That time he was in the Aggressors? He was in the EFA. I guess you could say he was in the space wing of the EFA and that doesn't count, but that's kind of specious reasoning for me. Especially since it's mostly the EFA that seems to be using the Aggressors' data, the UCC has their own poo poo. MarsDragon fucked around with this message at 03:29 on Oct 9, 2014 |
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Oct 9, 2014 03:25
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