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Also, in general I have to say I like the concept at least of the handful of preview addon missions we had - the three first ones could've easily done with being a single mission, sure, but like, that style of foreshadowing things is something that happens a ton in these games. Kyosuke and Excellen being present in OG1 when the plot of their game is only happening now, a few characters we're meeting soon whose real relevance more came in 2nd OGs, the offscreen backstory of MX actually happening in OG Gaiden, and now in 2nd OGs we've got the Alpha 3 originals running around, it makes a lot of sense that there was nothing foreshadowing OGG in that sense, and really it makes a ton of sense for Raul and Fiona to be there - it'd actually be a little befuddling if they hadn't done it, since their whole thing is they end up traveling back in time from Char's Counterattack Prince of Darkness everything is going horribly wrong future. And, well, look at that, there's a convenient alternate universe where things are going south very fast already established. ...It always does confuse me about R that the plot is that, and then Gundam X, which explicitly involves people rebuilding after a horrible cataclysm, occurs after going back in time sans horrible cataclysm. And it's even done in the most detail compared to any of its other appearances. I'm definitely curious to see why that is. But if people are going to go and do a translatey LP of a GBA game I'd prefer it be D because there's way more outwardly interesting stuff going on there.
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Aug 17, 2015 05:57
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I haven't played OG2 but I guess Lamia's secret unit is the Vysaga? If so, I prefer that just because it's way cooler than the Angelg.
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Aug 17, 2015 06:43
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Weissritter posted:I actually prefer the Angelg for thematic reasons, though I am not sure how strong mechanically it compares to the secret units she gets. The aforementioned "sidegrade" is just that, and you almost need to know you're getting it ahead of time in order to build up Lamia to properly use it, since that sidegrade uses mostly melee attacks whereas the Angelg works much better as a sniper-style unit since all of its ultimates are Ranged. That said, at least in OG2 GBA, said sidegrade was ridiculous and easily worth slightly inconveniencing yourself for about half the game by building Lamia in a different direction than her mech.
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Aug 17, 2015 06:44
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Brunom1 posted:Aw, I was wondering how you'd render Lamia's broken speech pattern (though I can understand going with Atlus' choice - those ARE pretty crazy). Yeah, The Inspector did it pretty well even if most of the translators dropped it after a while. Personally, I believe her problem is closer to just throwing random neutral adverbs/confirmations at the ends of her sentences it seems whatnot you know. Just crazy enough to be obviously broken but just coherent enough to sound like something Excellen would consider an accent for real I think totally.
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Aug 17, 2015 07:37
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MarsDragon posted:You get the improved Angelg no matter what. Your choices are between a decent unit you can put anyone in or a monster only Lamia can have. Back on the GBA I liked the open unit better, but some changes in OGS make the other secret better now. Well it helps that in OGS you have more open machines to put people in, so you have less need for the decent open unit.
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Aug 17, 2015 11:14
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Hunter Noventa posted:Well it helps that in OGS you have more open machines to put people in, so you have less need for the decent open unit. Yeah, between the Raubiter, the Wildschwein, and some of the OGs exclusive units, you really don't need it anymore, especially since the primary candidate for its use in OG2 has a shiny new toy. It also helps that the other option is the absolute coolest.
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Aug 17, 2015 11:25
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I assume there's no need for a capes vs. sabers vote.
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Aug 17, 2015 13:46
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Seyser Koze posted:I assume there's no need for a capes vs. sabers vote. I hope not, since the cape is the only true choice.  I guess the other's worth showing off. Maybe.
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Aug 17, 2015 14:00
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Broken Loose posted:Personally, I believe her problem is closer to just throwing random neutral adverbs/confirmations at the ends of her sentences it seems whatnot you know. Just crazy enough to be obviously broken but just coherent enough to sound like something Excellen would consider an accent for real I think totally. ...Now I want to see a fandub of OGs where Lamia has an uncontrollable Valley Girl accent. "Like OMG! Those Einst are so grody! Bag your claws already!" Gyra_Solune posted:...It always does confuse me about R that the plot is that, and then Gundam X, which explicitly involves people rebuilding after a horrible cataclysm, occurs after going back in time sans horrible cataclysm. And it's even done in the most detail compared to any of its other appearances. I'm definitely curious to see why that is. I'd be down for an LP of either, though I personally find D to be a huge disappointment mechanically. (I also never finished R because I didn't know about an extra requirement to beat one of the penultimate stages...)
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Aug 17, 2015 15:47
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Seyser Koze posted:I assume there's no need for a capes vs. sabers vote. Honestly, would there be any way out of that one? The cape is just way too badass to ignore. Besides, if you're going to do 2.5 after this, only the cape option actually affects it, so you might as well go for it to show it off. Hell, I chose it for my A run because it's just too cool (with Axel piloting it, though). Too bad it didn't get very far because I just couldn't get into it. Wounded Land posted:I'd be down for an LP of either, though I personally find D to be a huge disappointment mechanically. (I also never finished R because I didn't know about an extra requirement to beat one of the penultimate stages...) More SRW LPs can only be a good thing. Give the franchise the love Fire Emblem gets. Including a run like vilkacis' FE6 LP.
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Aug 17, 2015 15:56
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I am a little sad, as the Secret Unit that's available to everyone that you get from Lamia is one of my favorite units in terms of design, and yet in OGs, there's basically no reason to ever pick it, as the OTHER unit you get is so hilariously broken by comparison, and everyone who could use a shiny new unit from OG2 got shiny new units specifically for them in OGs. And what few didn't get their own units (Katina, Russel, kai, etc) have stats that are ill-suited taking advantage of it.
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Aug 17, 2015 22:11
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Yeah, I really love the open unit's design too. You could always give it to Viletta or Ring, but the bigger problem is no barrier pierce on the finisher. I don't understand how you can say that Kai doesn't get his own unit, though.
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Aug 17, 2015 23:33
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Actually the deciding factor here is that one is unique while the other is an enemy unit we'd be seeing anyway.
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Aug 17, 2015 23:35
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It's kind of a disappointment that Angelg's predecessor will probably never show up in an OG game.
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Aug 18, 2015 01:32
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Mission 7 Intro quote:Back at Langley, Kusuha and Bullet say goodbye before she heads back to Tesla Reich. He manages to spoil the mood and botch things by asking her to deliver a disk with Murata's combat data to Master Rishu. Excellen later finds out about this while they're manually loading the Shirogane with their machines. She saves the day by getting the ATX team to give Kusuha a proper sendoff as her transport departs.  Mission 7: Wings to the Stars  Lots of empty space on this map. There are a few Lions north of Ibis and Sleigh, and Archibald and his underlings are in Guarlions over in the corner.   On our side, the two Calions. Sleigh's pretty offensively oriented, with Accelerate and Focus for spirits and Hit & Away and Attacker for skills.   Meanwhile, I have no idea what Ibis thinks she's doing, since her spirits are Grit and Faith.  Her skills make a little more sense: she has Supprt Attack, Assist, which eliminates the damage penalty when support-attacking, and Counter. Ibis is the female real-robot lead from Alpha 2 (with the Project TD crew as her supporting cast), but this is actually a prequel to her Alphaverse appearance. We won't get caught up to the beginning of Alpha 2 for quite a while.Team TD is basically the cast of Gainax's Aim for the Top! Gunbuster, with Ibis as Noriko. That means there's hope for her eventually. and i would hope so because seriously a fighter pilot with no focus i mean who do you think you are, bullet or katina   Anyway, the Guarlions are way out of range, so let's look at these Lions instead.  "My brother's Calion is my strength!"  In the Alpha games characters didn't have pilot suits in their cutins. I don't know if I'm entirely sold on Team TD's Robbie the Robot helmets.   Not quite a one-shot.   This isn't what Archibald expected; their information said that the experimental mech was still unarmed, yet here they are putting up active resistance. Evidently Rose has been playing coy with them... It's an annoyance, but he can't risk trouble with his sponsors, so he orders his men to play with the two aircraft, but avoid shooting them down. As for their prey, four new heat sources were just detected; it looks like they'll just have to wait a little longer.  Two of the enemies will try to go for Ibis, while the other two will stay put and shoot at Sleigh.  On Turn 2 Filio notices something odd: the enemy Guarlions aren't really moving. Almost as if they're waiting for something...  Ibis' basic dodge rate actually isn't really worse than Sleigh's, but the lack of Focus is a huge difference.  "I have to shoot them! If I don't... they'll shoot me!"    Meanwhile Sleigh is thinking that Ibis only got this kill thanks to her softening the target up first. Not that it's not true.  The Calions basically have two attacks worth mentioning. Sonic Cutter we've already seen, while the G-Drivers require a little morale first.      The pilot just goes absolutely nuts with a pair of mass drivers. It gets the job done.  At the beginning of turn 3, the base's MP Huckebeins are finally ready to go. Scene quote:The Huckebeins' arrival is what Archibald has been waiting for; his Guarlions rush the new units, kill their pilots before they can react, and take off with the empty mechs in tow. The speed with which they accomplish this astonishes both Filio and Tsugumi, as it looks like the Guarlions are equipped with Boost Drives - technology they developed, and which only Isurugi Industries should have.  Now that the main event has begun, we get our mastery objective - take out all the enemies except for Archibald's Guarlion by the end of turn 4. That actually contradicts the stated victory condition, which is to destroy Archibald's mech. Completing the mastery will also end the mission, so it's one or the other.   Taking the enemies out is easy, especially with our fully-upgraded Revolver Stake.  Bullet stays back to take out the one remaining Lion that Ibis and Sleigh left behind, while everybody else moves forward.   Kyosuke and Excellen kill off a couple of the new Lions on the enemy phase, and then Bullet rushes back to help Kyosuke take out the last two on the player phase of turn 4.     Archibald: "That's long enough. It's a bit of a cliche, but... until next time, ATX team."   Lamia: "Captain. No enemy contac-acts on screen." Kyosuke: "I guess that's it, then. Raise the base commander for us." Lamia: "As you wi-ish."   Excellen: "Hmm... Kyosuke's relying on you already... maybe I should start talking like that, too?" Lamia: "M-my apologie-ies, Ms. Exy, I meant nothi-ing by it." Lamia: (I'm not speaking this way because I want to...)   Excellen: "Well, I guess it is sort of cute, in that timid sort of way." Bullet: "Lieutenant, don't say things like that." Excellen: "Hm? Bullet. Did I just hear the sound of your love ranking dropping by one thousand points?" Bullet: "A thousand!? W-wait, since when are we tracking love rankings!" Lamia: (No tension whatsoever. How could these people become the core of that squadron...)   Kyosuke: "I've spoken with the base commander. He seems willing to refill our ammo and resupply us for the return trip." Excellen: "Did you get him to draw a bath for me, too?" Kyosuke: "There's a lake over there, feel free to jump in. When you're finished, head to the hangar." Since there wasn't time to fight Archibald, nobody did it, but he actually has combat dialogue for everybody on this mission: quote:Archibald: "Now, then... show me your moves, Kyosuke Nanbu." quote:Excellen: "So, Mr. Thief, why not try to steal my heart next?" quote:Archibald: "An unknown. I'd like to take you as well... but I think that'll be all for today." quote:Bullet: "What are you planning to do with those Huckebeins!?" Archibald's Guarlion has 16k health and flees at 40%, but if you unload on him hard enough to take him out, he does have a different line before leaving: quote:Archibald: "Impressive! We must do this again - but for now, this is goodbye." Closing quote:Sleigh confronts Ibis over her shoddy performance; Ibis ends up running away in anger/embarrassment, and Tsugumi and Sleigh agree that it would probably be better for all involved if she just gave it up. Seyser Koze fucked around with this message at 11:54 on Aug 21, 2015 |
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Aug 21, 2015 05:41
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Ah, Filio... an interesting enough character, but he's got some really hosed-up hobbies.
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Aug 21, 2015 06:12
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I always forget Ibis is even in this game, she's basically completely inconsequential.
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Aug 21, 2015 06:31
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I hated Ibis the entire time I was in OGs2, but a friend told me that back in Alpha 2, she had insane late-level stat growth and became one of the game's ideal support attackers. Is that close to the truth, or was she pretty useless there too?
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Aug 21, 2015 07:06
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Did you forget to post Sleigh and Ibis' themes? Or do they just not have unique ones, which be would. Also, if these new characters also don't have much relevance to the current game i'm not sure i'm liking all this kind of one map foreshadowing for future games. I know it all probably leads to something in future games but if these introductions don't really matter to OG2, it feels like the time could better be sent elsewhere.
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Aug 21, 2015 07:19
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In fairness in the GBA OG2, this was all of the second map, so it wasn't really a trend yet. More than that, from a story perspective we need some time for Lamia and the ATX crew to interact before starting the plot proper, and if need maps that amount to dicking around, using it to set up future plot points isn't a bad way to do it. Although the sheer exposition for the entire TD project here pretty well derails that intent anyway. Also, I just had a thought. This is basically Gunbuster, making Sleigh Kazumi and Filio Coach, no? So... ew. I mean I'm sure they don't go there but still.
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Aug 21, 2015 07:42
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Ibis!  One of my favorite characters in the game. Though, it seems a bit weird, I could have sworn Ibis had innate Support Attack in the GBA version. This made her the best Support Attacker in EX-Hard/No Upgrade runs. vibratingsheep posted:I hated Ibis the entire time I was in OGs2, but a friend told me that back in Alpha 2, she had insane late-level stat growth and became one of the game's ideal support attackers. Is that close to the truth, or was she pretty useless there too? Uh, what? Ibis is one of the best Real pilots in OGs2nd
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Aug 21, 2015 07:56
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vibratingsheep posted:I hated Ibis the entire time I was in OGs2, but a friend told me that back in Alpha 2, she had insane late-level stat growth and became one of the game's ideal support attackers. Is that close to the truth, or was she pretty useless there too? Oh, man. So in OG2 (The Inspectors) and Alpha 2, she goes through her character arc where she discovers herself. At the end of the arc, she achieves a deep understanding and maturity that enables her true potential to show. Her stat formula is altered as a result, but players often didn't want to use her during the games because she's just horrible. It is altered from a linear formula with low base stats to an exponential formula with low base stats (but given that it's an exponent, at high levels she has ludicrous, nearly game-breaking stats in exchange for needing time to ramp up). Long story short, it wasn't uncommon for Ibis's "upgrade" to cause her stats to go down when she switches to the new formula just due to her level not being high enough at the moment to compensate. 
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Aug 21, 2015 07:59
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OK, yeah I was right. In GBA OG2, Ibis' skillset and even spirit commands are different. For one thing, she does have Focus, and her she has Support Attack instead of Support Defend. Why did they change that?
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Aug 21, 2015 08:08
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I guess I can understand Filio's objection to weaponizing the project, but it seems he is against against any sort of weapons on it. It kind of makes sense you would want weapons on even what is supposed to be an exploration unit after the existence of hostile aliens are confirmed.
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Aug 21, 2015 08:15
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All of Filio's handwringing is really insufferable, "B-b-but, Project TD is a mission of peace, why are they making me put weapons on the Calion?  "Your planet just barely survived a full blown alien invasion you clod! If you're sending people out into deep space, they need some method of defending themselves, end of discussion. Even Gene "The future is perfect, the Federation is not a military, and everyone is enlightened and peace loving hippies" Roddenberry knew that the Enterprise needed weapons. And yeah, Ibis and Sleigh's helmets are really goofy looking, but at least their space suits don't have boob windows I guess?
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Aug 21, 2015 08:19
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Broken Loose posted:Oh, man. So in OG2 (The Inspectors) and Alpha 2, she goes through her character arc where she discovers herself. At the end of the arc, she achieves a deep understanding and maturity that enables her true potential to show. Her stat formula is altered as a result, but players often didn't want to use her during the games because she's just horrible. That fully explains everything I was told and everything I saw. Thanks!
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Aug 21, 2015 08:23
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The Calion pilot suits look the way they do because they're designed with flying waaaaaay too loving fast in mind. If I recall correctly the suits are sitting over an assisting exoskeleton (and other protections) so the pilot can still operate the controls whilst in high Gs, and the helmets are shaped as they are to enable minimum head movement to look around while the pilot is being smooshed into their chair. It might not actually work that way in real world physics but I think that's the in-universe explanation I read for their design.
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Aug 21, 2015 08:45
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SyntheticPolygon posted:Did you forget to post Sleigh and Ibis' themes? Or do they just not have unique ones, which be would. They both just have Rail to the Dangerzone as their theme until later in the game. CmdrKing posted:Also, I just had a thought. This is basically Gunbuster, making Sleigh Kazumi and Filio Coach, no? So... ew. I mean I'm sure they don't go there but still. Sleigh is Jung. Tsugumi is Kazumi. EDIT: I double-checked and Ibis does have Support Attack after all. Oops.
Seyser Koze fucked around with this message at 11:52 on Aug 21, 2015 |
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Aug 21, 2015 11:19
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Sadly the end result is more Macross than Gunbuster, as expected of -Lion mechs. Also none of these pilots have the same GAR SHOUTING that Gunbuster has.
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Aug 21, 2015 11:56
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Rigged Death Trap posted:Sadly the end result is more Macross than Gunbuster, as expected of -Lion mechs. Yeah, its more like Macross Plusbuster.
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Aug 21, 2015 12:24
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Ah, the first appearance of Evil John Lennon.
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Aug 21, 2015 13:48
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MonsieurChoc posted:Ah, the first appearance of Evil John Lennon. More like John Lemon with that haircolor.
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Aug 21, 2015 15:19
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Ashram posted:More like John Lemon with that haircolor. It's important to have either a goatee or a different hair color to allow the casual viewer to differentiate.
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Aug 21, 2015 15:39
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Dr Pepper posted:OK, yeah I was right. In GBA OG2, Ibis' skillset and even spirit commands are different. For one thing, she does have Focus, and her she has Support Attack instead of Support Defend. Spoiler: They didn't.
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Aug 21, 2015 15:58
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Alacron posted:All of Filio's handwringing is really insufferable, "B-b-but, Project TD is a mission of peace, why are they making me put weapons on the Calion? And now I'm going to hear Filio's dialogue on Otakon's voice.
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Aug 21, 2015 16:24
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Neo_Crimson posted:And now I'm going to hear Filio's dialogue on Otakon's voice. drat it, now I'm hearing that too. Anyway, the ATX team had no reason what-so-ever to be there, from a writing perspective: if anything, it's weird for Lee to back down after hearing the ATX team's whining, considering his speech on the nature of military command. Hell, he isn't even wrong: showing the enemy where the ATX team's current location is can only make their *actual* mission harder, and there's no reason for them to go save some rear end in a top hat corporation's mechs because said corporation is too cheap to post more than a scrub squad for guards.
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Aug 21, 2015 18:31
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Ibis is a Cool and Good character and you should use her a lot. ...but uh you can switch her out of the Calion right? If I remember right there's something upcoming that's pretty much 'hey I know your canon unit sucks right now, here have this robot with no will requirement on its powerful finisher to make up for it'
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Aug 21, 2015 18:51
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If I remember right, Ibis in OG2 is practically Leaf in Fire Emblem 5; her final mech is just the mediocre thing she starts Alpha 2 in. Personally I never bothered to use Ibis because why bother with a character who ramps up when I have a dozen other already great units? v  vHilarious pilot outfit, though.
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Aug 21, 2015 19:39
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BlitzBlast posted:Personally I never bothered to use Ibis because why bother with a character who ramps up when I have a dozen other already great units? v Because a unit that gets full damage when Support Attacking is pretty rare and useful in this game? I dunno, might be a crazy thought.
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Aug 21, 2015 22:57
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SorataYuy posted:Because a unit that gets full damage when Support Attacking is pretty rare and useful in this game? I dunno, might be a crazy thought. Eh. It's actually not that useful. There are better support attackers because they can take advantage of weapons that Ibis can't and in the long run SP batteries allow you to do significantly more damage than Ibis support attacking does. She gets a lot better in later games.
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Aug 21, 2015 22:59
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