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ImpAtom posted:You know, I sense some bias from you, Forums Poster Gilliam Yaeger. I have no idea what you are talking about.
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Mar 21, 2016 01:08
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GilliamYaeger posted:I have no idea what you are talking about. You entirely have an idea, also marion would have invented the gespenst without the help of gilliam, if only to make the alt live.
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Mar 21, 2016 02:11
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AtomikKrab posted:Soon we will get to the point where everyone will know why I keep saying things are all gilliams fault. Not for a long, long time. And even longer until I get to do the great history dump. Wounded Land posted:I'm still perplexed by Nidengard doing completely wrong readings of kanji names in games that had character encyclopedias that included the correct readings for every character in the game. Apart from that, the guy does decent work if you don't care about characters' personalities. I think my favourite MNidengard kanji reading is the time he mixed up 'wife' and 'mother' in Alpha 3. That's not a mistake you usually make!
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Mar 21, 2016 06:04
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MarsDragon posted:
drat, Freud would have had a field day with that one. "So, your wife is your mother and also a real robot? Very interesting. Was your father, by chance, a super robot?"
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Mar 21, 2016 06:22
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haha, drat, where did he do that?
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Mar 22, 2016 18:26
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Wounded Land posted:haha, drat, where did he do that? Alpha 3, in the side stage where they awkwardly retcon the Elpis Incident into Alpha. He has Ratsel talk about his mom dying. It's not something he does over and over, but it is funny that he did it.
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Mar 22, 2016 21:26
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LPix is being uncooperative at the moment, but there should hopefully be another update in the near future.
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Mar 27, 2016 19:41
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Mission 28, Aviano Route Last time on the Hagane's route we liberated Riksent and showed off some dance moves. Today, we enjoy the worst battle mastery of the hundred or so we've seen thus far.   We'll start off by maxing the Fairlions' mobility and energy, then pump some cash into their Sonic Driver attacks, which will raise the damage of Royal Heartbreakers. Combo attacks aren't as vital in OGs as they were in the GBA games (there, combo attacks were the only ones that ignored barriers, while in the remake most of the "finishing" moves share that property), but they're still our biggest attacks. And with max energy, the Fairlions can break quite a few hearts before needing to recharge. I also boost up the Huckebein's mobility, because its performance on the last mission was just embarrassing. Intro quote:Lemon and Vindel have their conversation with Mitsuko from the other route.  Mission 28: A Distant Comet  Objectives. Kill everything. To get the battle mastery, we have a whopping eight turns to clear the map.  And here we are, with the Shirogane across the strait to the northwest and two Rhinos in the south. Rhinos have 25k-30k health, so it'll probably take the full eight turns just for Lee to slug it out with them both (assuming he can even survive, given that they have twice as much health as he does).  Moving forward. One turn down.  On the enemy phase the Rhinos begin to fall back.   Soldier: "Captain, the enemy ship is retreating!" Lee: "Are they luring us out? It's a feint..." Soldier: "A what?" Lee: "They're openly displaying their hand while acting in secret. They will lure us away, then attack the Hagane when we're too far off to assist." Soldier: "Th-then we should warn them!" Lee: "There's no need. All we need to do is sink the enemy vessel." Soldier: "Yes, sir!"  Lee: (Hmph. The Shirogane is not the Hagane's assistant. It's time Daitetsu Minase, Tetsuya Onodera, and all the brass took note of that.) drat it, Lee, I was just sticking up for you.    Still moving forward. Two turns down.  And the Rhinos run right up to the edge of the map. And stop.  Turn three, still moving.  The Rhinos don't even move at this point. So on the fourth turn, halfway to our deadline, the Shirogane finally gets close enough to fire.   Just a Spider Net. The only thing we can use after moving.  This is a slightly lopsided match-up and I don't know how Lee thought he would take down one Rhino singlehanded, much less two. But either way, attacking one of the Rhinos is the trigger for the next scene. Scene quote:Echidna gives the signal and launches PTs and AMs. Lee is unfazed, but isn't prepared for several to ram the Shirogane in a kamikaze attack - followed by a boarding party of W-series robots. The invaders prove impervious to the crew's small arms, and it doesn't take long for the ship to be overrun and Lee to be captured.   So now we've got Sleigh to deal with in her Calion, along with Echidna in the Rathgrith, and a small army of Randgriths, Gespensts, and Landlions (with a couple Sorpresas for good measure). It's still Turn Four, so we have essentially five moves left to clear the map, but it's still just Ibis.   Ibis moves up, and Sleigh moves to attack her. The odds aren't great, or even good, but Ibis has SP Regen now and can keep recasting Grit if necessary.   Sleigh: "Ibis! What did you do to my brother!?" Ibis: "Wh-what!? I haven't done anything!" Sleigh: "Don't lie to me! The proof's right there in that white mech! I'll never forgive you for this! I'll never accept you!"     I give Ibis ridiculous weapons because why not. Doesn't help, though.  Adding insult to injury, the entire enemy force just sits there (except for the Rhinos, which start to move back towards us). Four full turns down.     Turn 5, Ibis moves past Sleigh and goes after the grunts. Her odds are a lot better here, which points to how good the Calion is. Of course, the enemies just defend and don't return fire.  Next phase, Sleigh comes after us again. We have Focus on this time.    This doesn't actually matter, but boy did it feel good.  Once again the rest of the force does nothing (except, again, for the Rhinos, who fire uselessly at Ibis from out of range). On Turn 6... Scene quote:Realizing that she can't beat Sleigh as is, Ibis tries the RaMVs maneuver - but it doesn't work, and Sleigh counters with one of her own to far greater effect. Sleigh taunts her, but balks when Echidna orders her to deal the finishing blow. The Hagane arrives, and Sleigh exchanges a couple choice barbs with Leona before being ordered to withdraw. She vows to settle things with Ibis on their next encounter.  And now we see why this battle mastery is terrible. Our requirement is to clear the map in eight turns. It's turn six right now. There is at least a turn's worth of space between us and even the nearest enemies. And our people just showed up at neutral morale. The only mercy, so to speak, is that you just have to end the map by the end of Turn 8 - you're not actually required to kill everything as the objective states. And getting rid of Echidna will end the map.  And here, incidentally, is a noteworthy difference between the original GBA version and the remake. In the original, Echidna launches her attack on the Shirogane as soon as it reaches the larger southern island, which you can easily do on Turn 3. Then, when Ibis appears, there's no opportunity to move her around or fight with Sleigh - the scene where Sleigh appears flows directly into her trading blows with Ibis, which flows into the Hagane's arrival and Sleigh being told to leave. The battle mastery is unchanged. So in the remake we get an extra exchange between Ibis and Sleigh (during which Sleigh claims Ibis must have... seduced her brother? I guess?), but miss out on three full turns in which to maneuver and clear out the enemy.Full disclosure, I had to do this mission a couple of times, and when I finally did it I was so exasperated that I settled for a finish that got me a lot less cash and PP than I'd first intended.   Ibis can raise some hell down here, especially if you equipped her with a powerful weapon like the Boost Hammer. She can rip these guys up easily, which in turn gets some spillover morale for your other people and gets you more cash.  Everybody else has to spend a full turn (turn 6 of 8, remember) just moving toward the enemy.  At least the enemies have stopped defending and started moving forward. The bad news is that the Randgriths and Rhinos can still pummel us from out of range, and it'll take another full turn just to close the distance with them.  You can spend Turn 7 duking it out with the Randgriths...  ...but you're not taking out everybody by Turn 8 (remember, you have those two Rhinos to deal with as well), which means at some point you have to go for Echidna and cut things off early.  Echidna, who has 44,000 HP and retreats at 13,000. I can still get the battle mastery for just scaring her off, but she drops a Biosensor, which is a nice mobility-boosting item and I want it.   You'd think 13,000 would be easy to dish out at this point, but my efforts to get more kills have left my people spread out to the point that they can't twin up for the finish and wear her down enough.  In the end I give it up and start over.  On my second try, instead of having Ibis move down and engage enemies on the far side of the formation, I bring her over to help out vs. Echidna. Doing full damage on support attacks makes her a huge help in bringing down large targets.  As a result, the enemies blob up quite a bit and we don't get nearly as many kills, which actually gives us another problem. Before, all the people Ibis was killing on the other side of the map resulted in everybody else getting more morale. This time around, Ibis didn't kill anyone extra, which means some of our people are struggling just to get enough morale to twin up, much less use any finishers. But we push forward and hope for the best. This time I make sure to keep Kai and Shine close to each other.     Keep wearin' em down...  And this time Kai and Shine twin up and cast Soul. I rarely use Soul because of how inefficient it is (Kai could cast Valor twice, doing 4x damage instead of 2.5x, and have SP left over), but in this case we need a lot of damage done right now.          Unbelievably, Royal Heartbreakers doesn't have a dynamic finish. Also, I stumbled across the following while double-checking which Fairlion weapons contributed to the combo-attack damage. quote:The W-I^3NK System is activated to the use of both Fairlion units. A series of timed attacks is performed, utilizing the Sonic Cutter first, and ending off the combination with a charged energy attack thrown directly at the enemy. In Original Generations, the combination ends with both Fairlions charging at the enemy with a Sonic Breaker. The motion for the Royal Heartbreaker combination attack, adopted by Filio Presty and Jonathan Kazahara, was originally from the choreography of a famous 1990s Japanese idol group, WINK (which explains the naming of the W-I^3NK System). The more you know, I guess. :giftank:  Kai gets Focus, which is long overdue for him.  Echidna: "...It is as Master Vindel said. Their power is increasing. But our objective here has already been achieved. Begin the retreat."  Look at all that cash running away.     The enemies depart, leaving the radar completely clear - and clear of the Shirogane, as well. Tetsuya panics, but Daitetsu reminds him of priorities: get the mechs retrieved and resupplied, and then they will begin their search and rescue. Closing quote:The captured Shirogane is brought to the Earth Cradle, where Lee is kept as prisoner. He's tight-lipped when brought before Vindel and Lemon, but is surprised to learn that they're after his talents as a captain, not any information he might divulge. Vindel promises that he will give Lee what he seeks...
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Mar 27, 2016 22:32
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Oh Lee, you irreplaceable dumbass.
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Mar 27, 2016 23:04
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Leeeee! And this is why people hate Lee so much.
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Mar 27, 2016 23:07
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Couldn't you have held back the inferiority complex just a little Lee? 
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Mar 27, 2016 23:40
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Lee: This is entirely a trap, I am not stupid enough to fall for it. But boy am I ARROGANT ENOUGH.
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Mar 27, 2016 23:58
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AtomikKrab posted:Lee: This is entirely a trap, I am not stupid enough to fall for it. But boy am I ARROGANT ENOUGH. Also note that he suspects it's a trap, but he suspects it's a trap to take his ONE SHIP away from the Hagane with its super prototype robot battalion, so that the enemies can attack the Hagane, a ship that's still seen as the Heroes of the L5 Campaign. He's so arrogant that he thinks the trap is to distract him from the 'real' attack. And that is Lee's crippling flaw, he's actually very smart and from the level of a military man a good commander. But loving hell he's so blinded by his own poo poo.
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Mar 28, 2016 00:01
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Look, Tsugumi, it's okay, just admit you desperately want to make out with the girl. I don't think this crew will judge.
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Mar 28, 2016 00:01
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AtomikKrab posted:Lee: This is entirely a trap, I am not stupid enough to fall for it. But boy am I ARROGANT ENOUGH. It's, just, how did the guy graduate top of his class? Like, the obvious answer is that in the academy he did everything by the book and in a super robot show doing poo poo by the book instead of following your manly burning spirit is the fastest way into a Charlie Foxtrot, but here following the book was actually the correct play.
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Mar 28, 2016 00:11
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AtomikKrab posted:Lee: This is entirely a trap, I am not stupid enough to fall for it. But boy am I ARROGANT ENOUGH. The perfect character summary. Onmi posted:Also note that he suspects it's a trap, but he suspects it's a trap to take his ONE SHIP away from the Hagane with its super prototype robot battalion, so that the enemies can attack the Hagane, a ship that's still seen as the Heroes of the L5 Campaign. He's so arrogant that he thinks the trap is to distract him from the 'real' attack. In the tiniest bit of fairness to Lee, beelining right for the Hagane/Hiryu to "test their strength" has been a pretty common tactic of the enemy up till now. I imagine the whole "suicide to quickly take out big guns" and "mostly immune to small arms fire" aspects of the W series is something he couldn't have really expected either. But even with that excuse he still went "This is a trap. I'm going to rub my face on it" when he actually had the chance of pulling back like a sensible person should.
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Mar 28, 2016 00:33
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It is interesting that his reasoning boils down to "This couldn't possibly be a trap for me, I'm not important enough."
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Mar 28, 2016 00:50
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Omobono posted:It's, just, how did the guy graduate top of his class? Yeah, Lee failed here because he acted against his better judgment in the hopes of scoring an impressive achievement. It's a pure gently caress up, and one that can't really be excused: even if he HAD beaten the enemy, his superiors would have taken him to task for falling into such an obvious trap. He didn't even try to crash the ship once he realized the boarders couldn't be stopped, which is pathetic after his talk of soldiers being ready to die for their duty.
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Mar 28, 2016 03:00
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So the DC's strengths here are disposable soldiers in disposable mechs?
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Mar 28, 2016 04:04
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Glazius posted:So the DC's strengths here are disposable soldiers in disposable mechs? More or less. Our side has all the hotshot wildcards in experimental prototypes, whereas they have a nigh-infinite number of unimportant, replacable grunts. If you'll note, this was also the key strength of the Aerogaters and Shadow Mirror forces.
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Mar 28, 2016 04:31
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Omobono posted:It's, just, how did the guy graduate top of his class?
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Mar 28, 2016 05:06
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KataraniSword posted:More or less. Our side has all the hotshot wildcards in experimental prototypes, whereas they have a nigh-infinite number of unimportant, replacable grunts. Aerogaters yes, Shadow Mirrors...well, we'll see.
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Mar 28, 2016 05:12
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Lee, I thought you were an alright guy. Why'd you have to do this!!! He doesn't seem like the type of guy to seek a job from the enemy though, and unlike Sleigh he seems to be more sane and less likely to just outright betray his allies. But on the other hand he knows his current bosses are corrupt and kinda hates them so he might not've stayed around too long anyway if they kept him from fighting the aliens like he wanted. I hope he doesn't go bad though. I liked his constant frustration with the insane super-robotness of the main cast while he thought everything would happen fairly realistically. Or at least according to military protocol.
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Mar 28, 2016 06:17
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MarsDragon posted:Aerogaters yes, Shadow Mirrors...well, we'll see. The Shadow Mirrors strengths are their supremely badass super robots, like the Soulgain, the Thrudgelmir and the Zweizergain, in conjunction with their endless numbers of truly replaceable grunts.
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Mar 28, 2016 06:19
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Also being Metal Gear villains.
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Mar 28, 2016 06:26
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MonsieurChoc posted:Also being Metal Gear villains. In the games that they have appeared in, the goal of the Shadow-Mirror is to plunge the world in eternal war. Vindel, their leader, believes that war brings about change and the best in humanity, so there is no reason to desire peace. He defines peace as the stagnation in between one war and the next, causing man to become corrupt and weak, and is thus undesirable. Metal Gear villains is almost too perfect of a description for them.
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Mar 28, 2016 08:44
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CmdrKing posted:Look, Tsugumi, it's okay, just admit you desperately want to make out with the girl. I don't think this crew will judge. Considering the subtext Banpresto inserts into the relationship of Latooni and Shine (especially in this version of the Royal Heart Breaker), she is not the only one. Also the crew doesn't have much room to judge, since it's basicly made up of couples, something that has to be against regulations. Oh, Lee... I am not sure of you are just an arrogant dumbass, or too clever for your own good.
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Mar 28, 2016 10:21
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SyntheticPolygon posted:Lee, I thought you were an alright guy. Why'd you have to do this!!! On the other hand, Lee already suspects his superiors are in league with the DC, and he's about to learn that Kenneth (his CO) literally has orders to betray the Federation military from other Fed members, so the Federation kinda betrayed him first: and since betrayal is his berserk button, joining a group trying to put an end to all this petty crap by force must be rather appealing. Ashram posted:Also the crew doesn't have much room to judge, since it's basically made up of couples, something that has to be against regulations. I wouldn't be so sure: the Feds didn't seem to mind creating couples in the School to boost efficiency, and the heroic couples have a similar effect; people probably can't make out on duty, but acting lovey dovey may not be seen as a problem. thetruegentleman fucked around with this message at 10:47 on Mar 28, 2016 |
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Mar 28, 2016 10:38
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Omobono posted:It's, just, how did the guy graduate top of his class? As Echidna points out, mass-produced bulletproof disposable supersoldiers are nowhere in the book. This isn't the first time Lee's run straight into a DC trap because he failed to consider the fact that his enemies might have had unheard-of super technology, either - remember when a bunch of ASRS-equipped Barrelions popped out of the sea and bombarded the Shirogane? Though really, what it comes down to is Lee being unwilling or unable to rely on others - his allies, his pilots, and even his own crew. Rejecting the genre convention of the ship basically being a big defenseless PT truck, he constantly tries to have the Shirogane fight the battles, treating PT deployment as just one tactic to take under certain circumstances rather than the solution to literally every battle situation. If his ship isnt measuring up, he smugly complains about his crew not being well-trained enough to bring out a Space Noah's true potential (probably true in the Shirogane's case, but no other captain has complained about that). And he straight-up hates every other active Space Noah ship, while all non-Space Noahs are pathetic and useless by comparison. So since he doesn't trust anybody else to be competent, he charges forward and tries to accomplish everything by himself. If he sees a trap, that just means the enemy is too smart for anyone but him to deal with, and since he and his Space Noah are so awesome, he's confident he can handle any known threat without a problem even if it's part of a trap. Which worked fine for him way back at the beginning when Archibald tried to ram him with a Rhinoceros, but now he's running into unknown threats and they're loving him up worse and worse every time. He's just unable to consider that his enemy might have something genuinely out of the box to throw at him, and those out-of-the-box things are usually designed specifically to counter the kinds of by-the-book plays he pulls, so he gets ruined more and more hilariously every time he faces them. Kind of ironic given that he's all gung-ho about fighting the aliens, who don't play by the human military playbook in the first place!
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Mar 28, 2016 14:35
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When it comes to double-crosses, I find Lee's to be more forgivable since he had a harsh backstory and his stick-in-the-mud personality made him seem out of place. I am still  at Sleigh's reason for betrayal though; God she's dumb.
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Mar 28, 2016 15:45
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MonsterEnvy posted:In the games that they have appeared in, the goal of the Shadow-Mirror is to plunge the world in eternal war. Vindel, their leader, believes that war brings about change and the best in humanity, so there is no reason to desire peace. He defines peace as the stagnation in between one war and the next, causing man to become corrupt and weak, and is thus undesirable. Having only played the gba version the midgame was where everything got awesome. Metal Gear villains from Counter Earth! A Magical Tiger-Dragon Mech from Ancient China! Ratsel turns into a Horse! Good stuff.
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Mar 28, 2016 16:44
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Digital Jello posted:When it comes to double-crosses, I find Lee's to be more forgivable since he had a harsh backstory and his stick-in-the-mud personality made him seem out of place. I am still She can't stand being around Ibis, the EFA will probably just stick her with Ibis if she stays with them (not true, 99% chance that they'd stick her with Lee), Filio used to work for the NDC and said NDC is supposedly against the aliens. It kind of makes sense, if you squint. Personally I'd say she's just got DC sympathies left over from the last war, back when her onii-san was designing robots for them, and that influenced her decision.
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Mar 28, 2016 16:48
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Main Paineframe posted:Which worked fine for him way back at the beginning when Archibald tried to ram him with a Rhinoceros, but now he's running into unknown threats and they're loving him up worse and worse every time. He's just unable to consider that his enemy might have something genuinely out of the box to throw at him, and those out-of-the-box things are usually designed specifically to counter the kinds of by-the-book plays he pulls, so he gets ruined more and more hilariously every time he faces them. Kind of ironic given that he's all gung-ho about fighting the aliens, who don't play by the human military playbook in the first place! To be fair, the heroes aren't so good at dealing with the unknown threats either: they keep getting ambushed by all the 'aliens', and we know from magical narration action that the only reason they've been surviving is because none of their ambushers have been going all out against them. Even here, the Hagane would only have delayed a capture: Echidna would have withdrawn and then come right the hell back as soon as Lee left the Hagane's side, which he would have to do to score an achievement. Even if he had actually done the smart thing and clung to the Hagane, the traitors in high command would have ordered him to move somewhere else with minimal support, on account of being invaded by hostile aliens. None of this excuses him for being an idiot here, of course, but he's been facing a no-win scenario from the start. Also, it isn't really Lee's fault he doesn't have PT backup: getting kicked out of North Africa wiped most of the Federation PT's out, and any potential replacements would have been deployed to North America's border.
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Mar 28, 2016 17:11
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GilliamYaeger posted:The Shadow Mirrors strengths are their supremely badass super robots, like the Soulgain, the Thrudgelmir and the Zweizergain, in conjunction with their endless numbers of truly replaceable grunts. That's the thing. They've got the W-series, but they're with the DC because without the Earth Cradle and Itsurugi providing the production lines their forces are extremely limited. It's a bit odd to say the one faction in the game that explicitly doesn't have endless numbers for the meatgrinder can just throw grunts at the enemy. There's a reason we don't see their actual forces, the flying Gespensts, that often.
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Mar 28, 2016 17:58
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Of all the questionable people, and with his growing list of fuckups, it still feels like the main reason Lee gets poo poo on is because he shits on the protagonists while being in a position they can't just blow him up/reveal he's a traitor(Then blow him up). Which is a vicious cycle, when it comes to Lee's motivations  Sorry Lee, you're the antagonist sports team in every children's sports movie. You practice and work hard and won the T-ball championship 5 years running legit but now it's time for you to get hit in the balls while a wacky sound effect plays.
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Mar 28, 2016 18:30
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Main Paineframe posted:If his ship isnt measuring up, he smugly complains about his crew not being well-trained enough to bring out a Space Noah's true potential (probably true in the Shirogane's case, but no other captain has complained about that). And he straight-up hates every other active Space Noah ship, while all non-Space Noahs are pathetic and useless by comparison. So since he doesn't trust anybody else to be competent, he charges forward and tries to accomplish everything by himself. If he sees a trap, that just means the enemy is too smart for anyone but him to deal with, and since he and his Space Noah are so awesome, he's confident he can handle any known threat without a problem even if it's part of a trap. poor lee, he doesn't have the power to look at the stats screen and notice the shirogane is the worst OG battleship in the entire series (because it's the one most designed to be a space cruise ship and personnel transport)
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Mar 28, 2016 21:38
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all hands, initiate pattern delta *heated seats turn on*
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Mar 28, 2016 21:40
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Main Paineframe posted:And he straight-up hates every other active Space Noah ship, while all non-Space Noahs are pathetic and useless by comparison. Wait, is this right? I thought Space Noah referred specifically to the class of ships that are given names ending in -gane, and the Hiryuu Custom was something else. I wouldn't exactly call the Hiryuu Custom useless.
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Mar 29, 2016 16:44
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Son Ryo posted:Wait, is this right? I thought Space Noah referred specifically to the class of ships that are given names ending in -gane, and the Hiryuu Custom was something else. I wouldn't exactly call the Hiryuu Custom useless. The Hiryuu Custom is in fact, Not a Space Noah and you're entirely correct on the designation being related to a specific Class of ships. Then again, the Hiryuu probably pisses him off for being a retrofitted space explorer.
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Mar 29, 2016 16:50
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Son Ryo posted:Wait, is this right? I thought Space Noah referred specifically to the class of ships that are given names ending in -gane, and the Hiryuu Custom was something else. I wouldn't exactly call the Hiryuu Custom useless. Oh, right, I totally forgot about the Hiryu (much like the Lee, the entire Federation, and the Shadow Mirrors). It's not really a ship class, though, more of a weird one-off. Really, the Hiryu is in kind of a weird place in that no one ever talks about it as a ship (or even in general, except as part of "the Hagane and the Hiryu"). On the one hand, there's the Space Noah class, the awesome rare superships built to
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Mar 29, 2016 17:28
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