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The Kins
Oct 2, 2004

Skunkrocker posted:

The problem with classic characters like Warrior and Andre is they can't do that body scan thing, so I wonder if a lot of the famous names people loved being in the last few games have been cut like Flair.
EA UFC did a lot of recreating fighters by hand where they weren't able to do any body scanning, and they fit in pretty well. I'm guessing that 2K has a bigger art budget and more talented in-house artists than nigh-death THQ could handle, so they could probably pull it off.

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The Kins
Oct 2, 2004

LoboLoboLobo posted:

I'm gonna end up buying this game and squeezing the life out of it while I can before trading it in for something else. It'll be interesting to see the general overall impression of this game vs. the pockets of people who insist the game has its merits.

Basically they made the perfect TNA game.
As a bonus, you can fit the entire TNA roster in the limited CAW slots.

Or at least, you'll be able to in like two months.

The Kins
Oct 2, 2004
Looks like this got leaked a little early: Stern is doing a Wrestlemania pinball table they're unveiling at CES this week.


The Kins
Oct 2, 2004
More pics and info on Wrestlemania Pinball, via the Pinball thread in Games:





That thing in the middle shot is a "wrestling ring" playfield in the upper area of the table. You control the kickers using the flipper buttons to try and hit targets and holes to progress a wrestling match that's accompanied by LED lights, licensed wrestler themes, and commentary by Cole and King.

The table debuts a new, Linux-based pinball system by Stern called SPIKE, that features reduced product complexity (for ease of manufacturing and repairs), improved sound, software updates via wi-fi, etc...

A "limited edition" for collectors and the violently rich has also been announced, limited to 400 units. It features alternate artwork of classic wrestlers, a 5.7 inch LCD "Titantron" playing WWE footage, some additional gameplay elements on the field, and every unit is signed by Hulk Hogan, because I guess a Hulkamaniac's gotta eat.

The Kins
Oct 2, 2004
EA posted this on Twitter with a promise of more info tomorrow:



I wonder what it means.

The Kins
Oct 2, 2004
Have an announcement video with no actual gameplay footage:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJgUsTMZ8mw

The Kins
Oct 2, 2004

coconono posted:

I remember the TNA game having great models and good animations but everything else was terrible. like how did this get out of QA phase terrible.
The TNA game was developed by an on-their-last-legs Midway using Unreal Engine 3, which they'd already put through its paces a good deal on games like Stranglehold. They had the skills to make it look great, but not the time or money to make the actual game bit not suck.

So, pretty fitting, then.

The Kins
Oct 2, 2004
EA UFC 2 has gotten a proper trailer and some release details:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m97UWd2QuAI

Release date is March 15, pre-order bonus is "day one access" to Bas Rutten, Sakuraba and a third unannounced fighter.

The Kins
Oct 2, 2004

DoctorGonzo posted:

Speaking of yee-haw is there a good western game for pc?
Outlaws by Lucasarts.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifbB_nM05lE

It's on GOG.

The Kins
Oct 2, 2004

triplexpac posted:

I hope the new Fire Pro also has the MMA stuff, I quite enjoyed that
MMA Rules and Gruesome Fighting are confirmed on the Steam store page.

Borrowed Ladder posted:

If we can finally put different hair and beards on different faces, get some updated moves from the past ten years, add our own music, and get KOC2 style match ratings, I'll play this game forever.
New Hair etc.: Not certain, but every body part supports up to nine layers now and there's more pieces like neckties.
New Moves: 80+ new moves at launch, with more post-release. Kenny Omega's finisher is confirmed.

The Kins
Oct 2, 2004

Call Me Charlie posted:

And the guy that runs the twitter (plus much much more) said on Steam Community that he expects people to make collections on Steam Workshop so I guess that confirms you'll be able to download packs.
Yeah, Steam Workshop has a "Collections" system, which basically lets you collate together a series of workshop entries that you or anyone else made and lets you subscribe to all of them with one click.




So someone could make, like, a WWE collection, or a VGCW collection, or a Bob's Favorite Fake Fightmans collection, or a wrestlers-that-have-used-a-slur-on-camera collection, and you'd be able to use those to get a big crop of characters in one fell swoop.

The Kins
Oct 2, 2004
I could have swore the inter-gender thing was stipulated by the WWE.

The Kins
Oct 2, 2004

Boco_T posted:

I can't figure out how to actually get the CAWs into the game, I've never used Steam Workshop before.
Click "Subscribe" on the Steam Workshop page and they'll automatically download (they're very small files, so it'll be close to instant). Then in the game (restart if it's already open) go to Edit Mode > Team Edit > Transfer Wrestler > Retire and un-retire your new characters.

The Kins
Oct 2, 2004

KungFu Grip posted:

anyone have edits that have gaps in their hair or something where you can see the ring behind their head
Yeah, many of the base heads lack a back of the head where the wrestler they're totally not based off of has hair. There are "bald back of the head" parts buried among... I think the hair parts, so it's not difficult to work around with a pinch of care.

The Kins
Oct 2, 2004
The first patch for Fire Pro is out:

Spike Chunsoft posted:

Version 0.9001 was published today.
Please refer to the patch notes below.
We have been watching the forums and are working to address the issues reported.
We thank you for your patience and understanding as we continue to make improvements through Early Access.

Please keep patch-related comments to this thread so that we may better track your feedback.

[ONLINE MODE]
  • Fixed room search issue that was preventing matches from being found.
  • Fixed issue where the game would freeze at a black screen when starting a match.
  • Fixed bandwidth issue where you would switch control with opponent’s wrestler.

  • Fixed issue preventing you from selecting alternative costumes.

[WORKSHOP]
  • Fixed issue that prevented multiple costumes from uploading to Workshop.
    (Please re-upload any edit wrestlers with multiple costumes. Users subscribed to this item will then receive automatic updates.)
  • Fixed issue causing CPU logic settings to reset.
  • Fixed issue preventing a thumbnail from being created when uploading an edit.

[OFFLINE MENU]
  • Fixed issue allowing you to use retired wrestlers.
  • Fixed issue with belt icons displaying improperly in View Title menu.
  • Fixed wrestler name display in league mode.

[EDIT MODE]
  • Fixed issue that caused a different wrestler to be deleted if you tried to delete an editing without saving first.
  • Fixed issue on PS4 controller causing color picker to get stuck moving up.
  • Fixed issue in Moveset menu where “Not used” text was not displaying.
  • Fixed issue allowing you to use more edit points than the set limit. If you have a wrestler that exceeds the point maximum, their parameters will be reset.
  • Improved response speed of percentage select window in CPU Logic menu.

[MATCHES]
  • Fixed issue preventing you from taunting/performing on corner post.
    (If your wrestler was set to have a corner post performance, this issue also prevented them from using diving moves.)
  • Fixed issue where wrestlers were tiring too easily.
  • Fixed CPU logic issue that prevented CPU wrestlers from using irish whip and corner-to-center attacks.
  • Fixed CPU logic issue where “Grapple > Med Dmg” priorities were not being taken into consideration.

EDIT: The forums are also saying it added a new move, the Sling Blade.

The Kins fucked around with this message at 05:48 on Jul 14, 2017

The Kins
Oct 2, 2004

AlmightyPants posted:

Is there any word if Fire Pro is gonna be more expensive when it leaves early access or not? I'm tempted to try it out having not played one ever but I'm also hesitant to buy an early access game.
From the Steam store page's Early Access boxout:

quote:

Will the game be priced differently during and after Early Access?
“Early Access users will enjoy a lower price. We’re still considering the final release price.”

The Kins
Oct 2, 2004

mary had a little clam posted:

edit: this Colonel Sanders/Okada feud is really heating up


Oh neat, that's my Sanders! You can check out more of my dumb CAWs here, if you want to have Satan as a referee or whatever.

The Kins
Oct 2, 2004

TwoDogs1Cup posted:

Is 13k owners good?
It's pretty good for a niche, low-budget Japanese game that hasn't had a proper western entry in a decade, especially for having racked that up in what, five days?

For direct reference, here's what the PC ports of the Yukes games have racked up. 2k17 has 44,464 owners, a deep drop from 2k16's 177,025 (although that was apparently in a Humble Monthly Bundle at some point, which probably helped).

The Kins
Oct 2, 2004

Kennel posted:

It's not a flop but not a huge success either. I don't know their team size but after the expenses that's like 2-3 (Japanese) developer's annual wage so it needs to keep selling. Fortunately it's probably getting plenty of streamer coverage which tends to boost sales nicely.
According to a recent interview with the director that's worth reading, the development team is around 10 people, which is apparently par for the course for the series. Considering that, and the whole thing where their social media guy is pulling double duty doing the English translation, I suspect it's not an enormously high-budget production. I'd be very surprised if they don't make their money back at the least.

The Kins
Oct 2, 2004

algebra testes posted:

Wait is that Suda51 thing for loving real holy poo poo I need to play that right away
Yup! Here's Suda's side of things, taken from a recent issue of Retro Gamer Magazine...

Suda 51 posted:

To go back a little bit further, before we hit that game specifically, Super Fire Pro Wrestling Special was the game you were referring to, but I also made Super Fire Pro Wrestling 3, that was supposed to be the final game in the series, but it sold very well, so I had the opportunity to work on Super Fire Pro Wrestling Special, which also had a story mode. As the game sold well, [Human] said, "Make another one. This time, you can make it whatever you want."

I thought about what I could do to make this game unique, so I realised that the Fire Pro series itself was just a simulator, about raising a particular wrestler and having him rise through the ranks. I thought, "Well, what can I do within that? I know: I can make this a story, I can make this a story-driven experience."

Pro wrestling at the time was experiencing a boom in Japan – hence the games selling so well – so within that big boom, you have people getting very philosophical about wrestling and writing a bunch of things – analysis – and all these deep things. I'm personally a huge fan of wrestling, so I thought how I could give my take on wrestling? What's my philosophy? I saw the game as a vehicle to do that.

The final boss is a guy named Dick Slender, which is a parody of Ric Flair, and so originally I thought, "We can have two endings here – one, you beat the guy and you get the happy ending, the other, you lose and get the bad ending." I didn't decide to go with the two endings – instead, you go on and beat the last boss, he gets all the acclaim from the crowd, from the people, and the screen gradually goes from white, to black. It shows the character's house, and he's committed suicide... For me, it was like an apotheosis – the character had become a god.

It turned into a shitstorm.
Suda left the team during the development of the first PS1 game, but he still holds a candle for the series, recording a congratulatory message for Fire Pro World's announcement event.

The Kins
Oct 2, 2004
Thing I saw on the FPW Steam forum that's worth linking: DJKM77 put together a ton of template CAWs for different archetypes, that'll come in useful for people who're scared of the massive moveset and CPU Logic editors.

The Kins
Oct 2, 2004

Maxwell Lord posted:

Suddenly the announce voice in FPW is in Japanese. There hasn't been a patch so maybe I need to double-check something.
You mean the "ten minutes have passed" arena voiceover? That changes depending on the arena you're playing in.

The Kins
Oct 2, 2004

LORD OF BOOTY posted:

i'm sort of glad that between Fire Pro on Steam, the 2K games getting decentish PC ports, and PWX and MDickie existing, the PC is actually a pretty solid platform for punchsport games atm

like, has this ever happened before? I can't recall any time in history before now that the PC semi-regularly got wrestling games at all let alone fun ones
Nothing on this level before, I'm pretty sure. The 90s only got a couple of ports of bangers like WWF In Your House...



...and then outside of the occasional indie effort like MDickie, PC graps were basically non-existant until a couple of years ago.

The Kins
Oct 2, 2004

Minidust posted:

Is there a special add-on or something people use to get those slick images on the workshop pages? You know the ones that show like all 4 costumes with front and back shots. It looks like a pretty standard format so I assume they aren't just cutting up screenshots manually.
Nah, you just edit your workshop page after uploading to change the images. It's just cut up screenshots from the character creator + Photoshop.

The Kins
Oct 2, 2004

Minidust posted:

Ah good stuff to know, thanks. What's considered the most direct line to the devs for feature quests that don't really count as bugs? Twitter? I'm sure I'm not the first to want copied logic/movesets; might as well add my voice to the pile since they seem so responsive and enthusiastic about the project.
I believe their English-language dude primarily reads the Steam forum and a couple of threads on FPW Arena.

The Kins
Oct 2, 2004

triplexpac posted:

Has there been any talk about a legit ring editor being put in the game? If so I don't want to bother with a hack
They want to do it, and someone found an unfinished version of it in the code, IIRC.

The Kins
Oct 2, 2004

Pope Corky the IX posted:

I can certainly understand Del Rio, but why not the Dudleys? I thought they left on good terms and they've even doing that new ECW roundtable with Heyman and Dreamer and a couple other people on the Network.
D-Von still works for WWE backstage so he'd be fine, but Bubba Ray works for ROH nowadays which... might be an obstacle? I don't know.

The Kins
Oct 2, 2004
New Fire Pro patch is out.

Spike Chunsoft posted:

Version 0.9007 was published today.
Please refer to the patch notes below.
We have been watching the forums and are working to address the issues reported.
We thank you for your patience and understanding as we continue to make improvements through Early Access.

CUSTOM MUSIC
  • Fixed freeze bug on Skill menu.

OFFLINE MODE
  • Failsafe added at launch to check that the save data and application version are compatible . If the application version is older than the save data, you will receive a warning and the game will not launch.
  • A notification now appears if your save data is updated at launch time.
  • Exhibition Match: Fixed bug that would reset a wrestler’s costume when their position was reshuffled on the Wrestler Select screen.
  • Fixed bug that caused a 10-count if you played a Battle Royal after a SWA Rules Match.
  • Exhibition Match/Battle Royal: Font now scales down for wrestler names using 12 or more characters.
  • Tournament/League: When selecting Stables and Organizations, wrestlers are no longer displayed in the active left window.
  • Tournament/League: [Keyboard controls] When selecting Organizations, pressing the Up key now properly displays wrestlers in the active left window.
  • Tournament/League: [Keyboard controls] Fixed bug that would prevent arrow keys from working if the mouse cursor was over a button.

EDIT MODE
  • Wrestler Appearance Menu: Fixed bug where highlight settings would not copy when copying body part layers.

MATCHES
  • Battle Royal: CPU no longer tries to attack a defeated opponent leaving the ring.
  • Battle Royal: If a CPU wrestler has no current opponent, they will walk forward in the current direction (and will no longer 3D walk).
  • A defeated wrestler will no longer stand up themselves.
    *This includes the final wrestler defeated in a Battle Royal.
  • A defeated wrestler will no longer reverse moves.
  • If a wrestler is Irish Whipped into the corner post at an angle, they will now slump against the post.
  • Fixed bug preventing fluorescent tubes from appearing as random weapons.
  • Adjusted damage from colliding with walls/barbed wire/fluorescent tubes, as well as from landmines.
    *Increased damage for explosive gimmicks.
  • Cage Deathmatch: CPU will no longer attempt pinfalls with Win Condition set to Give Up Only/Escape.
    *Specifically this disables the pinfall button. Other pinfall moves may be used.
    *Priority Moves set to the pinfall button will be ignored.

The Kins
Oct 2, 2004

drrockso20 posted:

Also have we had any updates regarding the PS4 version?
PS4 doesn't have an equivalent unfinished-games-for-sale program, so it won't come out on PS4 until they leave Steam Early Access. Their budget etc. means they can only stay in Early Access until next spring at the latest, so probably around then?

The Kins
Oct 2, 2004

Dacap posted:

When are the console versions due to release? I'd rather play on my PS4 then my laptop
Not until the PC version leaves early access, which'll be next Spring at the latest.

The Kins
Oct 2, 2004
New patch is out.

Spike Chunsoft posted:

Version 0.9008 was published today.
Please refer to the patch notes below.
We have been watching the forums and are working to address the issues reported.
We thank you for your patience and understanding as we continue to make improvements through Early Access.

Offline Mode
  • Fixed bug where incorrect move name would display on match results screen when match was won with Okite Yaburi.
  • Wrestler Select Screen: You can now move the cursor without waiting for the wrestlers to load.
  • Exhibition Match: Fixed bug where you could use the mouse to select wrestlers that were otherwise unselectable.
  • Wrestler Select Screen: Fixed bug where, when selecting a wrestler with the mouse after scrolling the menu, the wrong wrestler would be selected.
  • Timed Battle Royal: Entrance Settings > Time settings now saves even when you move between menus.
  • Mission Mode: With the cursor over the [Return] button, pressing up/down now returns you to the Mission List menu.
  • Mission Mode: Made text boxes easier to read.
  • While playing in Windowed Mode, fixed the mouse so it will only respond when the application is the active window.
  • Added [Cache] option.
    This caches the Wrestler Select menu graphics for your entire collection of wrestlers and speeds up the Wrestler Select menu.
    To create a cache, turn the option ON and restart the application.
    *Each wrestler requires around 20MB of memory so please make sure you have enough available disk space.

Edit Mode
  • Fixed bug where full wrestler name would not display properly.
  • Can now press LB(L1)/RB(R1) to rotate the item in the Part Preview window.
  • Added full body preview button in place of the pull-down menu.
  • Changed the Highlights button size/text.
  • Can now toggle through highlight settings in place of the pull-down menu.
  • Changed base color of parts displayed in the Layer list.
  • Part selection cursor set to hidden when using Filter window.
  • Moveset Edit: Fixed moves that were not displaying properly.
  • [Back Grapple](MED) Back Tackle > Changed category from “Rough” to “Position Change.”
  • Skill Menu: Can now use left/right buttons to move between screens.
  • When selecting an edit wrestler/referee to load, it now displays their full profile instead of a thumbnail.
  • CPU Logic Menu: Fixed bug that would move the cursor back to the left-hand window if you pressed cancel while entering a percentage.
  • Fixed bug that prevented you from saving an edit wrestler if you had too many wrestlers assigned to “Retire.”
  • Increased font size of wrestler name.
  • Changed position of Nickname window.
  • Belt Edit: Fixed bug that hid belt information behind the belt preview when saving.
  • Team Edit: On the wrestler select screen, organizations without any assigned wrestlers will be moved to the end of the rotation.
  • Team Edit: Fixed bug where if you reorder a wrestler, then cancel before confirming, the wrestler would be moved regardless.

Online Mode
  • Changed graphics for pull-down menu/chat window.

Matches
  • Adjusted time that a wrestler stays down after being hit by a [Jump from Post] move.
  • CPU logic: [Jump from Post > Lrg Dmg] moves were not occurring as frequently as intended so parameters have been adjusted so these moves are used more often.
  • Adjusted timing for [Run up Turnbuckle] moves
  • Fixed bug where wrestlers would swap position with certain return moves (such as Lightning Speed).

Wrestler Data
  • Fixed CPU logic bug for default wrestler Caroline Collins where [Opp Down – Face down] > [Opp. Condition Critical] was set to over 100%


Moves
  • Added [Running > Turning Arm Breaker B]
  • Added [Front Grapple (BIG) > Backflip Driver
  • Added [Front Avalanche Setup Counter > Top Rope Canadian Destroyer]

Edit Parts
  • Added Face 688-697, Part 688-697.

The Kins
Oct 2, 2004

joylessdivision posted:

Wouldn't the Burger King 360 games be another fairly recent sponsored achievement thing?

Sneak King was pretty fun.
By "fairly recent" you mean "11 years ago", right?

They were pretty neat, though. I think they were the only games to have both a 360 and Original Xbox version on the same disk!

The Kins
Oct 2, 2004
Fire Pro has updated with some AI tweaks and even more CAW bits.

Spike Chunsoft posted:

EDIT MODE
  • Finishing Move now displays on Wrestler Transfer screen.
  • Wrestler Edit > Skill > Theme Music confirmation message now displays location of music file.
  • [Priority Moves] Added following categories: [Run up Post], [Jump from Post], [Performance], [Running], [Running at Downed Opponent]
    *NOTE: CPUE Wrestler may not attempt priority moves if they will note connect (due to distance, etc).

MATCHES
  • Increased time wrestler stays on mat after being hit by slingshot move into the ring.
  • If a CPU wrestler attempts a running attack against a dazed opponent and the opponent recovers, the CPU wrestler will continue their movement instead of stopping (though will stop after bouncing off ropes twice).
  • If a CPU wrestler attempts a post attack against an opponent slumped on the corner post and the opponent recovers, the CPU wrestler will continue their movement instead of stopping.
  • Adjusted run direction for CPU running attacks (vs standing/downed opponents).
  • Adjusted movement when CPU moves behind opponent.

NEW EDIT PARTS
The following parts were added:
[FACE]
  • Subpart 142(1)
  • Subpart 142(2)
  • Subpart 143(1)
  • Subpart 143(2)

[CHEST]
  • Body Hair

[STOMACH]
  • Body Hair
  • Pleated Skirt
  • Flared Skirt

[FOREARM]
  • Flames(1)
  • Flames(2)
  • Zigzag(1)
  • Zigzag(2)
  • Arm Guard D(1)
  • Arm Guard D(2)
  • Arm Guard D(3)

[THIGH]
  • Pleated Skirt
  • Flared Skirt
  • Frilly

[CALVES]
  • Bell Bottoms Pattern A(1)
  • Bell Bottoms Pattern A(2)
  • Bell Bottoms Pattern B(1)
  • Bell Bottoms Pattern B(2)
  • Bell Bottoms Pattern C(1)
  • Bell Bottoms Pattern C(2)

The Kins
Oct 2, 2004
Of possible relevance to Fire Pro's future: Spike Chunsoft has set up a proper US subsidiary.

quote:

Until now, our titles were produced in Japan and distributed worldwide by our business partners. But given how the instantaneous speed of information has become the norm, we believe that communicating with our overseas audience directly is a new avenue for us to create joy.

They'll be holding an event at GDC in March laying out their plans and showcasing demos. Given what the Fire Pro team have said about their budget and schedule in the past, the full version of Fire Pro probably won't be too far behind.

The Kins
Oct 2, 2004
Man, WWE on Switch feels like it's running on an emulator on a PC that isn't quite powerful enough.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZ4RpF2nmhU

The Kins
Oct 2, 2004
https://twitter.com/FireProWorld/status/940422242386698240

More Details from the Twitch Stream:
Leaving Early Access on the 19th! So they can focus on the PS4 version. There will be a 33%-off sale from the 19th until January 5th, before a final price raise to $30.

Management mode will be based on Final Fire Pro's, with 14 different promotions with at least six wrestlers each duelling for supremacy. Management mode will be the first of two paid DLCs. There'll be a season pass to get both DLCs for a good price, but they won't talk prices until January.

There will be an official Yoshihiro Takayama charity DLC on the 18th. It'll cost $3 and get you an official licensed Takayama character and a new move, Spirit Rush Punch. All proceeds will go to Takayama's charity foundation to help him with rehab. This won't be part of the season pass for obvious reasons.

The Kins fucked around with this message at 04:51 on Dec 12, 2017

The Kins
Oct 2, 2004

simosimo posted:

Can someone explain the management at all? Is it just booking, or a universe kind of thing?
From the stream summary the FPA dudes wrote up:

quote:

In a nut shell, it's a mode where you get to manage your own wrestling promotion. You want to raise talent and book matches to increase the size and scope of your promotion. There's all different kinds of ways how you can grow your promotion. Putting on good matches is the bedrock but there's all sorts of other little stuff like signing broadcast contracts, finding new talent or maybe even stealing talent from other promotions. If you do steal talent, you have to be careful since you can build up animosity with another promotion. You can also partner up with other promotions and do cross-promotional matches and things like that.

To give you the scope of the mode...you need to have 14 other promotions and each promotion has to have a minimum of 6 wrestlers signed. Which means you need a bare minimum of 100 wrestlers to begin the mode. Personal created wrestlers and Steam Workshop wrestlers work in this mode. Dave made a mistake. You also need free agents so you'll probably need a minimum of 150 wrestlers. So if you're the person who'd be interested in management mode, you'll probably have far more than 150 wrestlers. Director clarifies. This is more like creating your own wrestling alternate reality.

The Kins
Oct 2, 2004

LORD OF BOOTY posted:

Oh my god that's why one of his attires is a hilariously tiny thong

also, something magical happened

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODoDxIQDz2A
Ref isn't also Ric Flair, 8/10.

The Kins
Oct 2, 2004

Danith posted:

Reading about Fire Pro Wrestling World, I can't tell if you control the wrestlers you make or if they are all AI. Can someone enlighten me? I know nothing about this series (or wrestling in general)
Both. You can play the game or set up AI (the create-a-wrestler system has a pretty robust "CPU Logic" system for controlling AI behavior).

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The Kins
Oct 2, 2004

algebra testes posted:

Fire Pro for goty i didnt actually play this year but merely observed
Best Game I Didn't Actually Play has been a pretty strong category over the last few years thanks to Dwarf Fortress, Salty Bet and so on.

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