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Rand Brittain
Mar 25, 2013

"Go on until you're stopped."
It pretty much has to be Mrs. Cazalis, given the conversation we've just read. Is anybody else even capable of having committed the murders outside of the other members of the Cazalis family, who don't have motives nearly as good?

I'm still willing to lead the group through Thus Was Adonis Murdered if everybody is willing to read it. For future books it's also probably worth suggesting something by Rex Stout or Ngaio Marsh, who I'm extremely fond of.

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Quinn2win
Nov 9, 2011

Foolish child of man...
After reading all this,
do you still not understand?
I'll add a couple books from them to the list - any particular recs from either author?

timeandtide
Nov 29, 2007

This space is reserved for future considerations.
I'd also like to nominate Christianna Brand's Green for Danger as a future book down the line: http://www.amazon.com/Green-Danger-Inspector-Cockrill-Mysteries-ebook/dp/B005XE5AY4

The book is on Kindle for $8, but if you have Kindle Unlimited or don't mind signing up for a free 30 day trial of that you can get it for free; through there, it can be read on any tablet, phone, or PC as long as you download the Kindle reading app.

I've never actually read it myself, so I can't promise to lead it, but I've seen it recommended as a standout whodunit due to the atmosphere (it takes place in a hospital during World War II).


^^^^
For Rex Stout, I've seen The League of Frightened Men recommended as one of the best Nero Wolfe books. Never read him, myself.

Rand Brittain
Mar 25, 2013

"Go on until you're stopped."
The League of Frightened Men is one of the better Nero Wolfe mysteries, but I don't think it's a good choice for cooperative Internet reading—it would have some of the same problems as Cat of Many Tails did with not really having enough suspects to support a lot of good theories. I'd suggest Prisoner's Base, Murder by the Book, or And Be A Villain.

For Marsh I kind of want to suggest Last Ditch as it's the only one I haven't read, but her best are Overture to Death, Death in a White Tie, or Death and the Dancing Footman.

Selachian
Oct 9, 2012

I was going to suggest Nero Wolfe as well, and I can't argue with those choices.

Another possibility that came to mind was Ellen Raskin's The Westing Game. It's a YA book, but it seems suited for this kind of exercise since it's not just a single mystery, but a bunch of interlocking minipuzzles.

Hopeford
Oct 15, 2010

Eh, why not?
Having a bit of a rough time finding reading time, but I should be caught up by Friday to offer my fina--uh, to offer a theory on the killer at least.

Captain Mog
Jun 17, 2011
I nominate literally every book by Agatha Christie. She's still unmatched even up to the present date when it comes to cozy, campy whodunits. I assume (hope?) everyone's read And Then There Were None, but some of the later Hercule Poroit mysteries are absolutely genius.

Captain Mog fucked around with this message at 00:04 on Sep 12, 2014

Mecca-Benghazi
Mar 31, 2012


We actually read And Then There Were None in the previous thread. Good book.

I bet it's the time frame. I don't remember when the first dude was murdered, but the paper being read past 2am being emphasized over and over definitely means something and I'm pretty sure Cazalis can't teleport.

I'm gonna have to go with Mrs. Cazalis too for the bulk of the murders. I can imagine the doctor trying to kill Marilyn in exactly the way the real Cat would have done in order to cover for his wife, who he seems to really love.

Hopeford
Oct 15, 2010

Eh, why not?
Yeah, sorry guys, not gonna have time to read the book this weekend so you can probably go without me. Friend managed to injure herself playing volleyball and I'm gonna be taking care of her for a while. Sorry about that, was really looking forward to finally playing along with the thread for once.

Hiowf
Jun 28, 2013

We don't do .DOC in my cave.
Just read the last part, and well I guess it's time to re-read from the start again. Give us some time.

If you feel you're late to the book let me assure you haven't missed anything yet!

Rand Brittain
Mar 25, 2013

"Go on until you're stopped."
So, should we move on to the ending?

(Actually I gave in and read it already, but do we want to start talking about it?)

Quinn2win
Nov 9, 2011

Foolish child of man...
After reading all this,
do you still not understand?
Yeah, let's go ahead with that. Finish the book!

:siren:Ending spoilers::siren: Ultimately, as much fun as this book is to read, I don't think it was a great fit for the thread - not enough clues and suspects to keep discussion rolling. Still, congratulations!

For our next round, how about Thus Was Adonis Murdered?

Rand Brittain
Mar 25, 2013

"Go on until you're stopped."
Yeah, it wasn't super-difficult this time around. I guess we could use this as an example of the difference between a lowercase-m mystery and a Murder Mystery in the sense that most people mean when they talk about mystery novels. I just finished reading A Legal Fiction by Elizabeth Ferrars, which was also a mystery but not really a "murder mystery" even if people got mysteriously murdered. Even if there's a mystery that characters are interested in, it isn't really presented here as a game for the reader to solve on their own.

On a related note, I'm thinking of holding some kind of How to Host A Murder party later this year and am trying to pick out a proper boxed set for such a thing. It looks like the eponymous brand has gone out of print, and even though it's available on Amazon I'd have to find something called a "cassette player" to use one. Can any of the lovers of mystery around here recommend a more modern dinner-and-murder kit?

Van Dine
Apr 17, 2013

Thus Was Adonis Murdered sounds good to me.

About Cat of Many Tails, I'd just like to take a moment to complain about how bad one of the film adaptations of it is. The 1971 film Ellery Queen: Don't Look Behind You, starring Peter Lawford portraying Ellery as a swinging womaniser, is one of the worst films I've ever watched. Dull as ditchwater, and Ellery was constantly creepy, although the basic mystery plot was preserved.

Quinn2win
Nov 9, 2011

Foolish child of man...
After reading all this,
do you still not understand?
No particular advice, but I did have the pleasure of playing the second How To Host A Murder (The Grapes of Frath) at a convention last year, and it was an insane amount of fun, in much the same way as this thread. I hope you enjoy it!

Hiowf
Jun 28, 2013

We don't do .DOC in my cave.
The limited number of characters and clear elimination indeed made it easy. Between this, the Christies and the Croft we did I still liked Carr best for the combination of being hard but actually giving solid enough clues that the solution clicked when you find it.

Rand Brittain
Mar 25, 2013

"Go on until you're stopped."
I wasn't too hot on any of the characters and I honestly kind of want to murder Ellery Queen, but I thought the writing on the subject of the riots was really good and even kind of topical. I'm not sure whether to be glad or sorry that we didn't really get into that aspect.

Mecca-Benghazi
Mar 31, 2012


I liked Celeste, I can't believe she puts up with those idiots. :)

Thus Was Adonis Murdered is fine with me.

Quinn2win
Nov 9, 2011

Foolish child of man...
After reading all this,
do you still not understand?
Anyway, would you be willing to kick us off for Thus Was Adonis Murdered, Rand?

Rand Brittain
Mar 25, 2013

"Go on until you're stopped."
But of course! (I was only waiting for the opportunity to throw in without seeming like I was jumping the gun.)



Thus Was Adonis Murdered by Sarah Caudwell (available on Kindle and Kobo) is a legal mystery-comedy, and is thus the best thing imaginable except a mystery-fantasy-comedy... but I'm afraid nothing will ever be as good as Pushing Daisies was again. Still! This is pretty great.

This is the first of four mysteries to be solved by legal historian Professor Hilary Tamar. You may notice that Professor Tamar has a particularly unique trait as we go along, but then again, you may not.

Anyway! Our first reading assignment will be a bit longer than usual to get you through the premise. Please read the first four chapters of the book.

Hiowf
Jun 28, 2013

We don't do .DOC in my cave.
Huh, the book is from the 1980's, much more recent than the others. Should be interesting.

Mecca-Benghazi
Mar 31, 2012


These characters are gonna be great. :allears:

Is the big secret you alluded to that Professor Tamar is a woman? Because the narration is really good about hiding the speaker's gender and that always sends flags to me; although, I guess depending on what time period this is taking place in (I legitimately can't tell), that might be the point? Women detectives are cool as hell, women lawyer detectives in comedies are amazing.

Can't say we have any evidence to begin suspecting anyone, although I'm going to go out on a limb here and say Julia is being framed.

Mecca-Benghazi fucked around with this message at 19:55 on Oct 4, 2014

Rand Brittain
Mar 25, 2013

"Go on until you're stopped."

Mecca-Benghazi posted:

Is the big secret you alluded to that Professor Tamar is a woman? Because the narration is really good about hiding the speaker's gender and that always sends flags to me; although, I guess depending on what time period this is taking place in (I legitimately can't tell), that might be the point? Women detectives are cool as hell, women lawyer detectives in comedies are amazing.

More specifically, Professor Tamar is relentless in avoiding the vulgarity of self-promotion and never self-describes in any way that would allow anybody to pin the Professor down to any specific gender.

I originally read Tamar's "voice" as male, although since listening the the really excellent audiobooks read by Eva Haddon it's difficult to recapture that impression instead of hearing her voice.

quote:

Huh, the book is from the 1980's, much more recent than the others. Should be interesting.

Although that's ancient enough in its way! The third book is a sequence of something called a "telex" instead of letters.

Hiowf
Jun 28, 2013

We don't do .DOC in my cave.

Rand Brittain posted:

Although that's ancient enough in its way! The third book is a sequence of something called a "telex" instead of letters.

I remember those and I'm not "ancient"! :colbert:


So is the killer one of the other characters already introduced, i.e. one of the others she observed on the plane?

As for "frame", in the sense of being a convenient scapegoat, yes, but not in the sense of her being the indirect target. The description so far doesn't sound like she'd have a lot of enemies. On the other hand, she *is* very much a lawyer that might have won some cases...

Rand Brittain
Mar 25, 2013

"Go on until you're stopped."
This seems like a good time to tempt any lingering bystanders into our web of mystery by giving them some samples of the kind of prose we're dealing with here.

quote:

On my first day in London I made an early start. Reaching the Public Record Office not much after ten, I soon secured the papers needed for my research and settled in my place. I became, as is the way of the scholar, so deeply absorbed as to lose all consciousness of my surroundings or of the passage of time. When at last I came to myself, it was almost eleven and I was quite exhausted: I knew I could not prudently continue without refreshment.

quote:

“Julia?” I said, much astonished. “You haven’t let Julia go off on her own to Venice, surely?”

“Am I,” asked Selena, “Julia’s keeper?”

“Yes,” I said, rather severely, for her attitude seemed to me to be irresponsible. She likes, I know, to pretend that Julia is a normal, grown-up woman, who can safely be sent round the corner to buy a loaf of bread; but, of course, it is quite absurd. Poor Julia’s inability to understand what is happening, or why, in the world about her, her incompetence to learn even the simplest of the practical skills required for survival—these must have made it evident, even in childhood, that she would never be able to cope unaided with the full responsibilities of adult life. She must have been, no doubt, a docile, good-natured child, with a certain facility for Latin verbs and intelligence tests—but what use is that to anyone? Seeking some suitable refuge, where her inadequacies would pass unnoticed, her relatives, very sensibly, sent her to Lincoln’s Inn. She is now a member of the small set of Revenue Chambers in 63 New Square. There she sits all day, advising quite happily on the construction of the Finance Acts, and doing no harm to anyone. But to let her go to Venice—I imagined her, wandering alone through those devious alleyways, looking—as, indeed, she does at the best of times—like one of the more dishevelled heroines of Greek tragedy; and I could not forbear to chide.

quote:

Venice, as one sees from the map in Ragwort’s Guide, consists essentially of three large islands, though subdivided by canals into a great many smaller ones. Two of the three lie curled together, divided only by the Grand Canal, in an embrace of such Gallic sophistication as to prevent my pursuing further the anatomical analogy. To their left, excluded from their intimacy, the long thin island of Giudecca stretches out alone, a parable in geography of the hazards of a partie a trois. For consolation, like a divine hot-water bottle, it has at its foot the little island of San Giorgio Maggiore.

Rand Brittain
Mar 25, 2013

"Go on until you're stopped."
Meanwhile, unless anybody has other ideas, I'll plan to move forward once a week, so our next checkpoint will be this Wednesday, October 1.

Quinn2win
Nov 9, 2011

Foolish child of man...
After reading all this,
do you still not understand?
Caught up! Making a quick possible suspects list based on Chapter 4.

Julia Larwood: The chief suspect, and certainly not the culprit.
Major Bob: Insufferable blowhard who keeps flirting with Julia. Do we know who the victim is gonna be in this one? I'm betting it's this guy.
Eleanor Frostfield: Matron, and acquaintance of the Major through business.
Ned: A beautiful young man.
Kenneth: Ned's broad-shouldered Scottish friend.
Marylou Brendon: A pretty blonde girl.
Sanford Brendon: Marylou's husband.

That's all I picked up from my quick read-through. Did I miss anyone who's actually in Venice?

Quinn2win fucked around with this message at 21:39 on Oct 1, 2014

Rand Brittain
Mar 25, 2013

"Go on until you're stopped."

ProfessorProf posted:

Caught up! Making a quick possible suspects list based on Chapter 4.

Julia Larwood: The chief suspect, and certainly not the culprit.
Major Bob: Insufferable blowhard who keeps flirting with Julia. Do we know who the victim is gonna be in this one? I'm betting it's this guy.
Eleanor Frostfield: Matron, and acquaintance of the Major through business.
Ned: A beautiful young man.
Kenneth: Ned's broad-shouldered Scottish friend.
Marylou Brendon: A pretty blonde girl.
Sanford Brendon: Marylou's husband.

That's all I picked up from my quick read-through. Did I miss anyone who's actually in Venice?

Graziella, a tour guide, well-equipped to deal with all this nonsense.

Rand Brittain fucked around with this message at 16:08 on Oct 7, 2014

Van Dine
Apr 17, 2013

Excellent writing style. It's good to be reading a mystery writer who's willing to sound a bit eccentric. I haven't a clue who the culprit is yet. But it had better not be Julia.

It may turn out differently, but I assume that the one who's going to die will be Ned, on account of the Adonis in the title and his good looks. Even if he is an inland revenue lawyer. I thought for a moment that Julia was really over-reacting to Ned's identity, since she's a lawyer after all, but wait, there was all that stuff earlier in the book about Julia's bad experiences with inland revenue, so it really makes perfect sense. He's her natural enemy.

Rand Brittain
Mar 25, 2013

"Go on until you're stopped."

Van Dine posted:

He's her natural enemy.

Or perhaps... her natural prey?

Anyway, now that we're acquainted with the premise, I think it's time to move forward. You may now read to the end of Chapter Seven. All previous discussion may be despoilered.

Mecca-Benghazi
Mar 31, 2012


The penniless husband scheme sounds like a good one, don't be so down on it Tamar. :colbert:

Some thoughts:
The weapon used was almost certainly Marylou's pair of tailor's scissors
Kenneth, Ned's friend and a sculptor, didn't go on the excursion to the glassblowing factory, staying behind
Eleanor knows that Julia doesn't like income tax and all things associated with it, and she was there when Julia found out that Ned worked in that department.
Ms. Priscilla Tiverton is Timothy's client's deceased great-aunt, his client being the proud Cypriot that would come into a lot of money through said estate.
Stanford went to stay with a business associate over the weekend and Marylou is kind of mad about that; she's bitter about marrying him and how he doesn't care about her
Julia sends mixed signals about her sexuality to pretty much everyone
Eleanor and Kenneth had a suspicious conversation! (there's something Kenneth needs keeping from someone, maybe this Bruce guy who had already stolen an armchair and a late Baroque mirror)
Ned mentions "plans to make both of our fortunes" with regard to Kenneth
Cantrip thinks Stanford did it out of jealousy and mistaken identity
Ragwort thinks that Marylou did it, out of jealousy for Julia
Selena thinks that Eleanor and Kenneth might be married?? and that Eleanor killed Ned to keep a marginal tax advantage
Timothy thinks that Kenneth killed him but Tamar doubts it since the Venetian police didn't pick him up

the Major, Eleanor, Kenneth, and the Brendons all came back to Heathrow. Marylou is dressed really finely
Kenneth's suitcase is really heavy; it might have the mystery object inside?
the Major left with Ned's holdall; Ned lives with Kenneth


Lots of theories. I think motive-wise for the Major, it could also be jealousy if he saw Ned with Julia. But that might be too obvious. The only other character is Graziella, who we know nothing about.

I do like skuto's theory about Julia having won some cases against someone and then just killing Ned to frame her (which narrows it down to just Eleanor and Marylou who know about her thing against the revenue service I think).

Mecca-Benghazi fucked around with this message at 00:03 on Oct 8, 2014

Rand Brittain
Mar 25, 2013

"Go on until you're stopped."
Also, could there be a connection between Ragwort's ability to spot Gucci at fifty paces and his mysterious resistance to Julia's feminine pulchritude?

Rand Brittain fucked around with this message at 16:07 on Oct 7, 2014

Quinn2win
Nov 9, 2011

Foolish child of man...
After reading all this,
do you still not understand?
Caught up, but I don't have much else to add to the mystery discussion. The book is wonderful to read, though, we should do more by this author.

Worth noting for posterity: Miss Tiverton died of natural causes, and her collection did not contribute to the crime's motivation in any way.

Quinn2win fucked around with this message at 00:53 on Oct 25, 2014

Hobnob
Feb 23, 2006

Ursa Adorandum
I don't think we have enough details to do much speculating yet, but I'm caught up and ready to go.

(I do like that the group of fellows are presenting there own wild-arse guesses with too little to go on, though).

Hiowf
Jun 28, 2013

We don't do .DOC in my cave.
Same here, I caught up but have no useful insights to share.

Rand Brittain
Mar 25, 2013

"Go on until you're stopped."
It looks like people are catching up, so I won't wait until Wednesday to announce an update. You may now read until the end of Chapter Ten. All previous discussion may be unspoilered.

Mecca-Benghazi
Mar 31, 2012


Oh my god this is a series, we should read the other books in the series. :allears:

Is it too obvious that there's something in the holdall that's valuable that the Major wants? Which means that if he's the guy Kenneth was talking about, Eleanor is in the mix too. And Eleanor and the Major were both absent from the lunch that Ned was really worked up about (was the thing in question stolen maybe? or perhaps it wasn't stolen but Ned noticed something was up).

So now we know the time. Ned was still alive a bit past 6, before dinner. Both Eleanor and the Major were back by then, relatively recently. I don't think Marylou, Kenneth, and Stanford were back yet, they may have been though and Ned could have been killed during the night. We are only half-way through!

I will also say that the way that women and sexuality in this book are treated is a nice change of pace from the older books we've read so far.

Hobnob
Feb 23, 2006

Ursa Adorandum

Mecca-Benghazi posted:

Oh my god this is a series, we should read the other books in the series. :allears:
I'm liking it a lot so far. Julia is rather charming.

quote:

Is it too obvious that there's something in the holdall that's valuable that the Major wants? Which means that if he's the guy Kenneth was talking about, Eleanor is in the mix too. And Eleanor and the Major were both absent from the lunch that Ned was really worked up about (was the thing in question stolen maybe? or perhaps it wasn't stolen but Ned noticed something was up).

So now we know the time. Ned was still alive a bit past 6, before dinner. Both Eleanor and the Major were back by then, relatively recently. I don't think Marylou, Kenneth, and Stanford were back yet, they may have been though and Ned could have been killed during the night. We are only half-way through!

I'm wondering about that conversation - we don't know for sure "Bruce" is the person Eleanor is referring to when she warns Kenneth at first, and considering that she's in the antiquities business, her saying that this Bruce "stole" a chair and mirror from her might mean he snapped up an auction lot or something before she could, rather than anything illegal. Could Bruce be a pseudonym (or the real name) (Edit: or the employer) of someone in the party? It presumably could only be Ned, the Major, or Stanford. The Major would then seem the best bet, since he's also in antiquities.

But there's some weird business going on between Kenneth and/or Ned and the Major, with him apparently entering their room late Thursday morning, and then the thing with the holdall at Heathrow. Not sure what to think about it yet.

We don't yet know when Ned's body is discovered, but as you say we've last seen him around 6 in the evening, and since he and Kenneth share a room the chances are the murder will be found some time Friday night. Since everyone's back from Verona by dinner, that doesn't rule out anyone, but at least it gives the Major and Eleanor somewhat more opportunity than the others.

Hobnob fucked around with this message at 02:19 on Oct 8, 2014

Rand Brittain
Mar 25, 2013

"Go on until you're stopped."
So, how long do we want to wait between updates? It seems like seven days was a little too much; we can go ahead again tomorrow if people are ready?

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Van Dine
Apr 17, 2013

I'm good with moving ahead at a faster pace. This book's hard to put down.

Mecca-Benghazi posted:

Oh my god this is a series, we should read the other books in the series. :allears:

Thank you for mentioning that! This book is really delightful, and hearing that there are more of them is excellent news. I have to wonder how, for example, Julia would handle investigating a crime? Assuming that Julia does not find herself in prison forevermore at the end of this book.

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