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##vote byers
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Aug 18, 2014 22:48
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Philip J. Fry posted:To calrify: removing your vote on me makes sense, but the immediate serious vote following it is suspicious. When you say serious you mean my vote on Science? How is it suspicious? I thought it was scummy that he voted you with absolutely no reasoning and when it was on it's way to a bandwagon vote.
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Aug 18, 2014 23:09
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Taste, I appreciate the vote, but any thoughts? Jamuraan, have you read any of the Byers case?
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Aug 18, 2014 23:11
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Jamuraan posted:I had an old window open that showed Fry voting himself and I thought my vote put him at 4/6 I think I covered it here
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Aug 18, 2014 23:11
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Meezus posted:Taste, I appreciate the vote, but any thoughts? I've read everything you have written but I haven't really processed it because you're creating a lot of meta arguments (that I'm very much against because they rarely work) and you're throwing around a lot of words like "cognitive bias" which are just fluffy bullshit. I think Byers is doing good work in that he's getting conversation going because this game has been stagnant but honestly I am not sure of his alignment.
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Aug 18, 2014 23:12
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Meezus posted:Taste, I appreciate the vote, but any thoughts? I don't enjoy D1 but a no-lynch never actually develops That said I believe in effort as a good thing so I will vote the alternative to the effort poster
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Aug 18, 2014 23:13
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I Jamuraan posted:I've read everything you have written but I haven't really processed it because you're creating a lot of meta arguments (that I'm very much against because they rarely work) and you're throwing around a lot of words like "cognitive bias" which are just fluffy bullshit. Jams I think you're confused. I'm not sure what meta argument I've applied and cognitive bias was Pinterest Mom's line.
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Aug 18, 2014 23:15
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Meezus posted:Jams I think you're confused. I'm not sure what meta argument I've applied and cognitive bias was Pinterest Mom's line. Can you please tell me which meta argument you think I'm using so that I can address it for you?
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Aug 18, 2014 23:17
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Hello lurker friends. Would anyone like to chat?
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Aug 18, 2014 23:39
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This thread went from funny to painful to read
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Aug 18, 2014 23:40
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Tremendous Taste posted:I don't enjoy D1 but a no-lynch never actually develops Mills are you ok with this reason for TT voting for Byers?
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Aug 18, 2014 23:41
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I think it's better than no reason (for meta reasons that will have no meaning to you) but barely so. I'm not particularly happy with a lot of what has been posted recently. Byers is scum or wilfully manipulating things. PMom dropped a cognitive bias bomb then disappeared without responding to my response. Sandwolf and Hal have shown up for a quick sideline snipe. Jamuraan said he read my posts but had a bizarre response, and hasn't responded again. PJF wants to vote me over an ideaology that I find rather odd. I think we're in for a long game as none of this behaviour has been helpful and yet, quite obviously, not all of these players can be scum.
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Aug 18, 2014 23:44
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Meezus posted:Let's town hive mind this because it's slowing down. This quote from you is great for prodding and getting the thread moving, but also it seems silly to tunnel on Byers because there are several other people in the thread that have posted way less content. I guess I don't really understand why you chose Byers at that moment versus anyone else. From what I can understand you originally called out Byers because of his lack of content but now you think Byers is being disingenuous about his OMGUS case on you? Hal Incandenza posted:I don't get a good vibe from it. Feels like a case created for appearances. He sets up a false dichotomy to make it seem like Jam has contradicted himself which would be a very weak case even if it were true and there's nothing else. I'd ##vote Byers This followed immediately after you lightly called out Byers and seems way more scummy. Seems like Hal is trying to get the ball rolling on a lynch that didn't have much steam to start with. If Byers is scum then this kind of seems like a weak bus from Hal. Meezus posted:Expect a proper case from me tomorrow on Byers. I'd like to touch on: 1. No one has really expressed interest in Taste's vig kill. I think it was very poorly done but I don't think it's indicative of alignment. Just means that TT is an idiot who completely wasted what could have been used against scum. If TT is scum then obviously he got away with a free kill. If TT is town then he just hurt his own win-con. But to say that Byers is scum because he didn't call out TT for killing Keane is a weird jump. No one has really given TT poo poo for killing Keane. 2. I don't get the PMom reference except someone said it's a meta-argument which is what I was referring to. I agree that it's silly for Byers to say you're just trying to set up a scenario in which you can vote and use it to backtrack. You have always been a pretty straight-forward and logical player and you have definitely taken responsibility for your vote in this game. Pinterest Mom posted:I think singling out Byers for not caring about the vig is disingenuous, because TT has received no heat at all for his choice. You could make that argument about any other player in the game. I agree with this post to the letter. Sandwolf posted:I find myself agreeing with this. Byers was kinda lurky and his posting was very serendipitous, but what he's saying feels really good. I don't think posting when you get called out is as big of a scumtell as it usually is since this game is pretty lurky across the board. This also. Meezus posted:Singling out Byers for not caring about the vig is not NOT disingenuous, because we are asking ourselves whether Byers is objectively casing me. If he is casing me, if he is asking the question Is Mills town or scum? then he should be looking at the totality of my posting history and there is a period of several hours where I interact with Taste and Keane and discourage Taste from shooting Keane. I follow this up by asking Taste about his motivations for following through. Byers is not being objective because Byers is wilfully ignoring facts. I am pointing this out about Byers because Byers made a case on me. I am not pointing this out about other players because other players did not make a case on me. You can pass it off as apathy for the other players. You cannot pass it off as apathy for Byers. This is a little silly on your part because Byers didn't really have anything to say about you until you started trying to rally the town against him. Plus your actions are a null-tell on alignment because if you were scum, you would know that Keane was town and you wouldn't want to seem eager for a townie to get killed. And of course asking Taste about his motivations doesn't have a bearing on your alignment either. The biggest thing that might be indicative of Byers being scum is his immediate OMGUS case on you after he had been putting a lot of pressure on me. I get that when you started putting pressure on Byers it forced him to kind of back off and be a little defensive, but I'm surprised that Byers almost completely dropped his case on me and switched immediately to you. That's all I really see as of right now. Byers has seemed pretty logical in his defense and honestly your case seems really weak. I'd much rather look at posters like Science of Suck (who I am currently voting) because he's done absolutely nothing.
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Aug 18, 2014 23:50
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), but it seems like once Byers started responding substantially, Mills started twisting himself to keep the case going without much justification. I don't know if that's scummy or just a cognitive bias.
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Add in kaschei to the sideline sniping and I've just named the whole game. Alas.
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Aug 18, 2014 23:50
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I think SoS is town because he returned to the thread to unvote in the middle of the Byers / Mills conversation and had nothing to add. Scum would be more self-aware here.
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Aug 18, 2014 23:51
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Anyone that sticks to the argument that no one questioned Taste before and after his vig is wilfully misinterpreting the posts that have been made, or lieing, or too lazy to go back and read.Meezus posted:Taste, are you scum? Meezus posted:I think he's town. Meezus posted:Alright, so why do you think Keane is scum? Serious post. Meezus posted:Doesn't this completely ignore any concept of Keane having a highly individual personality? The fact that I was the ONLY person to do so makes it even MORE relevant for Byers to take this into account in an objective case on me.
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Aug 18, 2014 23:53
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I am not casing Byers for his lack of questioning of Taste. I am casing Byers for not considering the relevance of my questioning of Taste in his case on me. His case is not objective. This is what scum do.
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Aug 18, 2014 23:55
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Jams, could you please respond to my further explanations of your misunderstanding, and also give me your thoughts on what I posted with respect to SoS.
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Aug 18, 2014 23:56
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My current reads: Scum: Hal- Outlined in his quick willingness to vote with Mills on a weak Byers case Science- Straight lurking and refusing to offer content Kaschei- Hiding behind a PR and also making comments on the game without offering personal content Could go either way: Byers- OMGUS case is suspect but I can see this going either way Sandwolf- Lurking and not much to go on. Has contributed but seems a bit Pinterest Mom- Hard to get a read because of lack of content. Seems to have put more effort in than the other lurkers PJF- Are you and Mills really masons? I'm confused on that, but I haven't made a strong read on you either way Probably town: TT- Highly questionable vig-kill on D1 although for balance reasons I doubt scum would have a day-vig Mills- Genuinely seems like town and frustration with lurking is real Definitely town: Jamuraan and CCKeane. Duh.
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Aug 18, 2014 23:57
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Meezus posted:Jams, could you please respond to my further explanations of your misunderstanding, and also give me your thoughts on what I posted with respect to SoS. I don't know about how you feel about SoS, I think in general when someone shows up to the thread to unvote and then does nothing else it just seems like lurking scum.
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Aug 18, 2014 23:58
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I gotta run, I've given the run-down of all of my thoughts on everyone in the game.
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Aug 18, 2014 23:59
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Jamuraan posted:PJF- Are you and Mills really masons? I'm confused on that, but I haven't made a strong read on you either way Meezus posted:We spoke at length yesterday and he actually thinks like this.
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Aug 19, 2014 00:00
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I don't know why either one of them would just haphazardly throw out a mason claim like that. They could have just been talking OOT about non-game stuff.
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Aug 19, 2014 00:01
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Jamuraan posted:I don't know why either one of them would just haphazardly throw out a mason claim like that. They could have just been talking OOT about non-game stuff. they're either both town or both scum imo
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Aug 19, 2014 00:02
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Jamuraan posted:
Mafia edit: Just realized I didn't finish that sentence
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Aug 19, 2014 00:03
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Tremendous Taste posted:they're either both town or both scum imo I doubt they would make a mason claim if they were both scum. I would say they are either both town or it's possible that one of them is scum.
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Aug 19, 2014 00:03
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Jamuraan posted:I doubt they would make a mason claim if they were both scum. I would say they are either both town or it's possible that one of them is scum. It's WIFOM sure but I think they would make that claim because they were both scum if they have a way so the flip doesn't betray them
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Aug 19, 2014 00:06
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Jamuraan posted:I don't know why either one of them would just haphazardly throw out a mason claim like that. They could have just been talking OOT about non-game stuff. He did it before we could talk OOT. I don't understand his logic but a lot of his logic has been bizarre like that to me.
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Aug 19, 2014 00:06
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I'm literally about to walk out the door but I like where my vote is. I'm willing to vote Byers to avoid a no-lynch but I'd rather vote one of the three in my scum list. For now I don't think Mills is scum and if the consensus is between Mills or Byers, well then that's a pretty obvious choice for me.
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Aug 19, 2014 00:07
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Meezus posted:Followed up by Byers saying Mills is a liar and scum because one-time he confirmed a player as town and said the thread should follow that player's lead. QED. I'm dropping this because no one but you or I care about it, FYI. I think it makes you scummy, no one else cares, and you're not going to change my mind regardless of how much you spin it, so let's save everyone a bit of grief and drop it. Meezus posted:1. Random lurker vote because game was slowing down. This is the first time Mills has suggested his initial vote on me was random. Before this, he said that he singled me out because I didn't include his reaction to TT in my case on him, but when it was pointed out that my case happened after his vote, now the vote is random and it's only his later case that is effected by my lack of reaction to his talking with TT. He's moving the goalposts. Also, I've already pointed out why I don't care about Mills's reaction to TT ecause it's a null read for me. I'm going to continue not considering it as long as TT and he are unflipped because except for the fact that it felt like genuine conversation (i.e. they're not scumbros) it says nothing about his alignment.
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Aug 19, 2014 00:07
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Meezus posted:I think SoS is town because he returned to the thread to unvote in the middle of the Byers / Mills conversation and had nothing to add. Jamuraan, this is for you.
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Aug 19, 2014 00:07
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Byers2142 posted:This is the first time Mills has suggested his initial vote on me was random. Before this, he said that he singled me out because I didn't include his reaction to TT in my case on him, but when it was pointed out that my case happened after his vote, now the vote is random and it's only his later case that is effected by my lack of reaction to his talking with TT. He's moving the goalposts. Read my earlier six point summary timeline and tell me it isn't a natural progression of events. Also, explicitly tell me why you didn't feel the need to analyse my posts around the TT / Keane situation if you want to argue you made an objective case. If you want to admit you weren't objective instead... 
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Aug 19, 2014 00:09
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When's the deadline?
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Aug 19, 2014 00:11
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2.75 hrs
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Aug 19, 2014 00:13
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Tremendous Taste posted:I don't enjoy D1 but a no-lynch never actually develops I hate that your idea of a good D1 ends in a no lynch. It's not a scumtell because I've seen you past games and know that's how you really feel, but it's an awful strategy for D1. Jamuraan posted:This followed immediately after you lightly called out Byers and seems way more scummy. Seems like Hal is trying to get the ball rolling on a lynch that didn't have much steam to start with. If Byers is scum then this kind of seems like a weak bus from Hal. Disagree; Hal's made that observation about my posting and voting a few times, that I seem disingenuous or that I'm creating cases for appearances. Mills asked him for a read, there wasn't much to go on at that point except TT's vig that we all are chalking up to him being an idiot, and it fits into how Hal usually reads me. Not scummy in my opinion. Jamuraan posted:The biggest thing that might be indicative of Byers being scum is his immediate OMGUS case on you after he had been putting a lot of pressure on me. I get that when you started putting pressure on Byers it forced him to kind of back off and be a little defensive, but I'm surprised that Byers almost completely dropped his case on me and switched immediately to you. I still don't like your shift in posting as a Keane vig became more likely, or your further shift in tone after the flip. But Mills is twisting the sequence of events right now; between my gut read on you and my knowledge that Mills is straight up lying in a way that screams caught scum, I'm going to keep pushing Mills hard.
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Aug 19, 2014 00:15
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##unvote Your tone in your last few posts has changed my mind. I think you are an idiot rather than scum.
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Aug 19, 2014 00:16
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Although I am not sure that is the preferable outcome for you.
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Aug 19, 2014 00:17
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I'm at work and don't have time to case anyone else. I expect this means I will be lynched. Peace.
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Aug 19, 2014 00:18
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Byers2142 posted:I hate that your idea of a good D1 ends in a no lynch. It's not a scumtell because I've seen you past games and know that's how you really feel, but it's an awful strategy for D1.
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Aug 19, 2014 00:18
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Meezus posted:Read my earlier six point summary timeline and tell me it isn't a natural progression of events. It isn't. The posts happened in that order, but you said that the reason you singled me out was because I didn't look at TT and your interactions there, but my case came after your vote. So you made that vote psychically knowing what I would say in casing you. When the insanity of that idea was pointed out, it became a random vote and it was only later that you really decided I was scummy. Your six points are not the natural progression because you lie about your motivations for the posts, and your lie is evident in the way your story is changing. I didn't comment on you and TT because you would have said the same things as scum or town, therefore it's largely irrelevant.
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Aug 19, 2014 00:19
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