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PantsOptional posted:The EotE campaign I'm in is ending soon, and the GM is going to be doing AoR next. I've already got a character lined up, because "R2 unit starfighter ace" is the best. Just stick some frumpy human dude with a mustache in the pilot seat and let him think he's doing a great job. Nah, your pet human (fellow pc if you can swing it) is a Rebel Intelligence counterspy posing as a snubfighter jock because Command has evidence of an Imp mole in the squadron. He can't fly for poo poo, but you're his robeard because otherwise they'd never let a droid fly.
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Sep 25, 2014 06:33
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BatteredFeltFedora posted:Nah, your pet human (fellow pc if you can swing it) is a Rebel Intelligence counterspy posing as a snubfighter jock because Command has evidence of an Imp mole in the squadron. He can't fly for poo poo, but you're his robeard because otherwise they'd never let a droid fly. This is getting shamelessly stolen for a future campaign.
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Sep 25, 2014 06:53
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Mortanis posted:Droids are the best. I'm having a blast playing a Protocol Droid that's dumped everything into Deceit and Charm and just schmoozing/lying his way across the galaxy. Half the time I'm going around deliberately mis-translating Hutts and Sand People to start poo poo; the other half I'm dodging restraining bolts because I'm just simple property. This is extremely apt, as C3PO was supposed to be the (literally) oily conman before Anthony Daniels turned him into a fussy English butler.
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Sep 25, 2014 18:33
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So, how well do the 3 "core" games fit together? I've got a group of friends that have played Star Wars RPGs since Wizard's revised edition, up to and including the FFG EotE Beginners box. The EotE book itself is dauntingly massive, and I'm wondering if it might be overwhelming to incorporate AoR or F&D as well. I know that they've got Obligation, Duty, and Morality unique to each one (even though they each appear mechanically similar). Is there anything else majorly different between the three books (also realizing that F&D is still beta). There are extra races in each book, extra careers, extra specializations, extra talents, but do skills stay the same? I'm planning on running the pre-written adventures, because I'm really bad at writing adventures (though, not gonna like, I might steal that "scout Hoth" hook). For that reason might it be best to limit my players in EotE adventures to material from the EotE core book and expansions? I guess if nothing else, if I allowed everything that becomes an insane amount of content for me and the players to sort through. So, tl;dr version, play EotE by itself or allow AoR and F&D as well?
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Sep 29, 2014 05:03
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Unifying hook for the party, maybe use only one of Obligation/Duty/Morality even if the careers are from different books, and pay attention to the development of Jedis to make sure they aren't too unbalanced in the longterm. Other than those things, everyone's operating in the same universe under the same rules, so go nuts.
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Sep 29, 2014 05:09
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Question about the lightsaber skill; back in EotE you could key Lightsaber off of either Brawl or Agility. Is that out the window with F&D?FISHMANPET posted:Is there anything else majorly different between the three books (also realizing that F&D is still beta). There are extra races in each book, extra careers, extra specializations, extra talents, but do skills stay the same? The differences are all fluff, plus the Obligation/Duty/Morality mechanics. The only odd one out is AoR has a Knowledge(Warfare) skill that the other two books don't have.
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Sep 29, 2014 05:19
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Lightsaber is now explicitly Brawn but there's a lightsaber combat specialization for each Characteristic that makes it use that Characteristic instead.
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Sep 29, 2014 05:22
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PantsOptional posted:Lightsaber is now explicitly Brawn but there's a lightsaber combat specialization for each Characteristic that makes it use that Characteristic instead. Hrm...well, looks like I hosed up then. Oh well. EDIT: To elaborate, my IRL group wanted to try out the F&D rules, so we spent some time rolling up Jedi characters and I let one of my characters use Agility for Lightsaber even though he's not using one of the Lightsaber trees. I wonder if the discrepancy will be errata'd or if that's working by design and you can still make the choice in EotE-Only games. jivjov fucked around with this message at 05:31 on Sep 29, 2014 |
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Sep 29, 2014 05:24
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PantsOptional posted:Lightsaber is now explicitly Brawn but there's a lightsaber combat specialization for each Characteristic that makes it use that Characteristic instead. An elegant weapon for a more refined era... that uses brute strength to determine its usage. What? They should have defaulted it to Agility since it's more about not cutting yourself in half than it is beating down your opponent.
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Sep 29, 2014 21:04
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Obi-Wan just needs to check his Jedi privilege. Elegant, sure if you're some kind of one-percenter who gets to use the power of his brain or the brilliance of his smile to better wield your ten-thousand credit laser sword (to clear the poors out of your way, clearly).
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Sep 29, 2014 21:26
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Fuzz posted:An elegant weapon for a more refined era... that uses brute strength to determine its usage. What? If they defaulted to agility it would make the stat even more overpowered. As it is, a high AGI character is already best pilot and best shot in a game that has a lot of shooting and piloting.
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Sep 29, 2014 21:33
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To be frank the lightsaber rework with all the individual trees for each class that don't match up half the time (with some being very distinctly better then others) is, shall we say, not exactly the most well done part of the book.
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Sep 29, 2014 22:14
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Elendil004 posted:If they defaulted to agility it would make the stat even more overpowered. As it is, a high AGI character is already best pilot and best shot in a game that has a lot of shooting and piloting. Good point. ProfessorCirno posted:To be frank the lightsaber rework with all the individual trees for each class that don't match up half the time (with some being very distinctly better then others) is, shall we say, not exactly the most well done part of the book. It's one of the two completely terrible parts of the book. The other being the whole Morality system.
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Sep 29, 2014 23:04
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I do find it vaguely amusing that the dark side isn't just faster then the light side, it is flat out legitimately better and stronger in every way.
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Sep 30, 2014 00:14
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The dark side SHOULD be easier, and more powerful. Thats how evil is portrayed in Star Wars. Every Jedi seems to have to work hard to maintain the light side, or that is the impression that I get. The fact that being light side doesn't make you look like a loving demon and terrify everyone in sight should be a pretty nice advantage, even if it doesn't show up in raw numbers.
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Sep 30, 2014 00:20
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quote:Luke: Vader... Is the dark side stronger?  I don't think it is stronger in every way, but there's definitely some work to be done
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Sep 30, 2014 00:26
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Carteret posted:The dark side SHOULD be easier, and more powerful. Thats how evil is portrayed in Star Wars. Every Jedi seems to have to work hard to maintain the light side, or that is the impression that I get. The fact that being light side doesn't make you look like a loving demon and terrify everyone in sight should be a pretty nice advantage, even if it doesn't show up in raw numbers. You think it'd at least give a sort of advantage. Even if it's not an outright advantage, "not looking like rear end" is hardly a great reason to play things harder than you need to.
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Sep 30, 2014 00:26
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Fuzz posted:An elegant weapon for a more refined era... that uses brute strength to determine its usage. What? Light sabers are basically game breaking universe defining things that should exist outside the system. They should not be a skill, they should be a special side-case where you just use Brawn and Agility instead of (Ability) and (Skill). Specific traits should let you substitute Cunning one of them instead. *Mic Drop*
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Sep 30, 2014 01:06
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I... really like that. Write it up and submit it to forceanddestinybeta@fantasyflightgames.com, maybe they'll listen (hint: they won't). I think I'm going to houserule that though, that sounds pretty awesome.
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Sep 30, 2014 03:27
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I would prefer the Lightsaber dice pool to be something like Brawn/Agility plus Force Rating. It's always struck me that Luke never has a single lesson in how to wield a lightsaber, but he's able to wound Darth Vader in Empire and even be a match for him in Return.
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Sep 30, 2014 03:53
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Brawn doesn't seem like a very good lightsaber characteristic to me. It's never really about brute force.
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Sep 30, 2014 04:01
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MisterEff posted:I would prefer the Lightsaber dice pool to be something like Brawn/Agility plus Force Rating. It's always struck me that Luke never has a single lesson in how to wield a lightsaber, but he's able to wound Darth Vader in Empire and even be a match for him in Return. Except Vader was testing him in Empire, and Luke snapped at Vader in Return. He got better with a lightsaber in Returns, but he wasn't a Sonny Chiba sword master. Also in the Original Trilogy, the Emperor saw a light saber as a child's toy and Yoda never needed the light saber. They didn't need that crutch. So, yeah, lightsabers are cool and all but I prefer a good melee sword or blaster honestly for fighting.
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Sep 30, 2014 04:54
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Flame112 posted:Brawn doesn't seem like a very good lightsaber characteristic to me. It's never really about brute force. Well, in the Original Trilogy it kind of was, though. Everyone used the two-handed grip and swung the sabers around like they were heavy.
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Sep 30, 2014 04:59
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Madurai posted:Well, in the Original Trilogy it kind of was, though. Everyone used the two-handed grip and swung the sabers around like they were heavy. This is because in the original trilogy they were swinging very fragile rods, and two hands is a lot more control than flipping them about one-handed.
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Sep 30, 2014 05:05
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I don't understand how you could play FF's Star Wars like the original trilogy. You'd have to be fighting against the system tooth and nail on every roll, right? It's Clone Wars the kids' show. If you have to tie it to a movie, 9 times out of 10 it's Episode VI joyous rear end kicking with Episode I speed races and kick flips.
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Sep 30, 2014 05:06
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I don't get that feel at all. Maybe once you get down some of the F&D force trees things start to feel like prequel stuff, but Edge in particular feels very much like the more pulpy-and-ever-so-slightly-gritty A New Hope adventuring. Honestly though, it's gonna depend on the group and the adventures you put them through. My IRL group has one combat beatstick, but everyone else goes for very OT archtypes.
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Sep 30, 2014 05:36
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Ramba Ral posted:Except Vader was testing him in Empire, and Luke snapped at Vader in Return. He got better with a lightsaber in Returns, but he wasn't a Sonny Chiba sword master. The Emperor actually specifically refers to it as a Jedi's weapon, which makes the implication that Sith, as a rule, don't actually use them. Vader uses one because he used to be a Jedi, but that's the only reason.
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Sep 30, 2014 06:03
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Ramba Ral posted:Except Vader was testing him in Empire, and Luke snapped at Vader in Return. He got better with a lightsaber in Returns, but he wasn't a Sonny Chiba sword master. I have no idea how you could criticize using a lightsaber as being a silly crutch true masters don't use, and then bring up a fuckin' metal-rear end sword as the viable option  The problem with making lightsabers very brawn based is that it bumps against the archtypical jedi, Luke. Luke wasn't exactly a super muscular guy. Lightsabers using Agi fit with Luke's character being basically all Will and Agility. He's not slamming it down two handed against Vader because that's just how you use a lightsaber, he's doing that because he's starting to turn to the dark side and he's unleashing his anger. In Bespin, Luke clearly isn't swinging it around like a bat, and he also does a few small acrobatics throughout the fight - certainly not Episode 1 levels, but he isn't just standing there trading blows. Now, Vader, he starts by one handing that poo poo, but turns to overwhelming Luke with sheer physical force. So hey, Brawn certainly works as an option. But making it everything or even mandatory just doesn't fit. Like, that's the thing about mechanics - you have to look at how characters interact with them. If lightsabers use brawn, then that means jedi are all going to be big buff burly dudes. Which is a kinda hilarious mental image, but also doesn't fit in the slightest. Lightsabers are "an elegant weapon, for a more civilized age." Not just some big ol' beatstick. In fact, if you DO want to follow the original trilogy, it seems pretty clear that using Brawn is the dark sided method of Lightsaberin'.
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Sep 30, 2014 08:53
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I could almost argue for a "Dungeon World Defy Danger"-esque houserule for Lightsaber usage, where the Characteristic it tags off of will vary based on how you narrate it. Battering through an opponent's defense? Brawn. Using Corran Horn-style dual phase trickery? Cunning.
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Sep 30, 2014 08:59
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I don't have the book in front of me but it makes sense to me if one considers brawn to be physical fitness and athleticism, and agility to be delicate motor skills. A fencer, martial artist, tennis player, are all examples of athletic behaviour which requires strength and dexterity in a more active sense (hardly contradictory) whereas agility could be delicate motor control for lock picking, sharpshooting, careful manipulation of sensitive pilot controls, etc. But I doubt it's actually split up like this. I can't imagine someone unfit using a lightsabre but I can imagine some lard rear end being the best starship pilot / sharpshooter? Although then I suppose it would be weird to describe that person as agile.
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Sep 30, 2014 09:04
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Oh ok  Yeah guess it doesn't work out exactly. Anyway, can't brawn also deal with stamina too? So he may not look like the Rancor handler from Jedi but can run a mile? Also, had there ever been anyone that just used a lightsaber as a bayonet? Attach it to a rifle and stab will probably be the safest way to not cut off your own limbs.
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Sep 30, 2014 09:48
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Blamestorm posted:I don't have the book in front of me but it makes sense to me if one considers brawn to be physical fitness and athleticism, and agility to be delicate motor skills. A fencer, martial artist, tennis player, are all examples of athletic behaviour which requires strength and dexterity in a more active sense (hardly contradictory) whereas agility could be delicate motor control for lock picking, sharpshooting, careful manipulation of sensitive pilot controls, etc. But I doubt it's actually split up like this. I believe it is, actually. Brawn is over fitness, while Agility is "balance, flexibility, and deft hands." Atheltics is a Brawn-based skill, and it's not just used for lifting heavy stuff, it's also for running, jumping, and climbing. With those descriptors, I'd still say either is a fit for the lightsaber skill. Honestly, given how most characteristics could somehow factor into a saber duel (I'm a bit iffy on Presence), I think the ability to take a talent for any characteristic is a fine one. As Cirno's mentioned before though, it'd be nice if the respective talents were a good fit for the career they come from.
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Sep 30, 2014 13:49
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 incomingMadurai posted:Well, in the Original Trilogy it kind of was, though. Everyone used the two-handed grip and swung the sabers around like they were heavy. ACTUALLY, while the rod thing was part of that, they used similar technology throughout the Original Trilogy - yet the swordfighting really changed from ANH to ROJ. Apparently, Lucas originally wrote the lightsabers as being like medieval broadsword combat (to fit his whole "wizards and knights in space" motif). He actually wrote the lightsabers as being extremely heavy and unwieldy when activated. The fight in Ep IV is the way it is because their swordfighting coach was basically instructing them in medieval swordfighting moves. By Ep V, however, his swordfighting choreographers made the suggestion that what would be really revolutionary would be a weapon that's incredibly light and agile, and so that approach made its way into the blocking. By Ep VI it had been completely ret-conned, and the need to model Jedi after medieval knights was long gone. Of course Ep I-III kind of went hog-wild in terms of variety, but the lightsabers there were barely even physical objects. For a laugh, compare how Ewan McGregor doing his Alec Guinness impersonation (which is still the best part of that trilogy) fights as General Kenobi versus how Ben Kenobi fights in Ep IV. Hubis fucked around with this message at 14:44 on Sep 30, 2014 |
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Sep 30, 2014 14:35
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MisterEff posted:I believe it is, actually. Brawn is over fitness, while Agility is "balance, flexibility, and deft hands." Atheltics is a Brawn-based skill, and it's not just used for lifting heavy stuff, it's also for running, jumping, and climbing. With those descriptors, I'd still say either is a fit for the lightsaber skill. As an example, Mace Windu uses Brawn with his light saber, not Agility. In fact I'd say he even has Brawn 4 or 5. Being physically powerful does not mean you're necessarily a clumsy hulk. That's kind of what I was thinking with my house rule suggestion - it would force a Jedi who wanted to be good with his lightsaber to be both strong and agile. Another interesting approach might be to keep the Lightsaber skill, but key it off THE LESSER of Brawn and Agility. Hubis fucked around with this message at 14:47 on Sep 30, 2014 |
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Sep 30, 2014 14:44
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ProfessorCirno posted:I have no idea how you could criticize using a lightsaber as being a silly crutch true masters don't use, and then bring up a fuckin' metal-rear end sword as the viable option The book, in addition to calling brawn brute force, says characters with good brawn are physically fit and hardy. Makes sense after Luke trained on Dagobah for so long running laps carrying Yoda and rocks. An attribute is what you want it to be. Having a high Brawn doesn't mean you are a massive man, necessarily.
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Sep 30, 2014 14:50
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Hubis posted:As an example, Mace Windu uses Brawn with his light saber, not Agility. In fact I'd say he even has Brawn 4 or 5. Being physically powerful does not mean you're necessarily a clumsy hulk. That's kind of what I was thinking with my house rule suggestion - it would force a Jedi who wanted to be good with his lightsaber to be both strong and agile. And while I haven't read F&D, honestly I think you guys are way overthinking it. It's a game mechanic, and it's a lot better if being a Jedi doesn't also automatically put you in contention for the best pilot and shooter as well.
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Sep 30, 2014 15:28
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ImpactVector posted:It can't be two attributes, because that'd make a mess of the dice pool mechanic. Everyone would start off really good at lightsabering and never get any better. It's almost impossible to start with a skill above 2, but you could start with 4+3 br/agi pretty easily if you wanted to dump other stuff. My thinking is that light sabers are things you just plain can't use if you're unskilled, and the difference between a neophyte (1 rank) and a master (5 ranks) is pretty low. In the fiction, lightsaber fighting is less about simply practicing and getting "good" with it, and more about becoming versed in specific schools of the art which are far more situational and nuanced. So instead, I'd use the same dice pool ([Min Die] yellow, [Max Die-Min Die] greens) but with [Brawn, Agility] and rely a lot more on Traits which would get invoked in more situational ways rather than a blanket "how good are you with a light saber" number. You could get really unique and flavorful with the Traits. I don't want it to fit with the other skills because lightsabers are supposed to be completely unlike every other weapon in the universe, and so I would want them to feel completely weird and unique mechanically as well. You make a good point about the starting abilities of course, but that character would end up dumping a lot of other stats to get there which feel is an OK trade-off. Anyways, this is sort of just me theory crafting, so it's probably not worth spending too much effort worrying about its viability since it'll never be how it *actually* works in game.
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Sep 30, 2014 16:36
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Hubis posted:You make a good point about the starting abilities of course, but that character would end up dumping a lot of other stats to get there which feel is an OK trade-off.
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Sep 30, 2014 16:49
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Blamestorm posted:I don't have the book in front of me but it makes sense to me if one considers brawn to be physical fitness and athleticism, and agility to be delicate motor skills. A fencer, martial artist, tennis player, are all examples of athletic behaviour which requires strength and dexterity in a more active sense (hardly contradictory) whereas agility could be delicate motor control for lock picking, sharpshooting, careful manipulation of sensitive pilot controls, etc. But I doubt it's actually split up like this. And turning that around and looking at what skills already key off Brawn, I can buy a guy with natural talent at athletics, hand-to-hand combat in all its forms, and sheer resilience would probably be pretty good with a lightsaber with a little skill training. Honestly my only problem with having the default be Brawn (which any aspiring saber-specialist should increase on general "I'm in combat a lot" principle) and the various traits to use alternate stats is the headache the lightsaber traits cause if you take more than one lightsaber tree. Considering no matter what stat you use for Lightsaber you probably only want to focus on boosting ONE stat, any extra alternate stat use talents become a pure 10 XP tax on taking multiple lightsaber form specialities, something which is a hell of a burden on any would-be battlemaster Jedi given the extra experience demands leveling the Force talent trees takes already.
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Sep 30, 2014 18:52
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It should be Willpower because god drat you have to have balls of steel to wield a weapon that can dismember you on bad backswing.
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Sep 30, 2014 18:58
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