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I graduated with my masters in May and have been on the job hunt since. I've sent out over 100 applications, but have had a lukecold response ... about 5 interviews and no offers. Two weeks ago, I found a position in a city nearby and applied to it, sort of on a whim. I was contacted the day after I submitted my application, interviewed the following week, and given an offer two days thereafter. I'm scheduled to start on Monday. The problem is that I've had some time to think about it, and I'm no longer interested in the position. I'm overqualified -- they're asking for someone with an AA, and I have a BS, an MA, and a graduate level technical certificate. The position also doesn't pay great; the range is just $29k to $42k. I asked for $40k because I felt like a jerk asking for the maximum pay, and they gave me $39k, which gives me little room for growth. Furthermore, most of my colleagues with the same degree and similar experience seem to be starting in the $42k to $47k range. The other issue is with the city in which the job is located. It's a small city of about 10,000 people, and it's a little backwoods. The county in which it's located has one of the lowest median incomes, and one of the highest percentages of people below the poverty line for the entire state. As such, I don't see myself forming too many friendships or worthwhile relationships simply because I don't feel that I have much in common with the folks in a poor small southern town. The alternative to living there is to commute from where I currently live, where I love living, but at the sacrifice of 100 miles round trip and 2 hours of my life every single day. There is virtually nothing to rent between here and there. Is this an acceptable way to decline the position before I start Monday? I have already taken and passed a required drug test and physical. I have no other job offers, but it seems unfair to say "I don't want to work there because there's a 97% chance I'm going to hate it". I feel guilty saying I have work elsewhere, but frankly, it's none of their business. quote:Dear Mrs. HR Person,
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Aug 15, 2014 20:02
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The alternative is living with my parents. I'm okay with that for now, on the assumption that I can't be unemployed forever. I've had two interviews offered to me since I received the employment offer.
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Aug 15, 2014 20:17
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ZentraediElite posted:Edit: Don't you watch Parks and Recreation? Mark Brendanawicz starts off hating Pawnee but winds up loving it before they wrote him out of the show for being too boring. This is your chance! Bugamol posted:Can I ask what field your in? I've always been under the impression that you should never turn down a job when you don't have one. What happens if these two other interviews don't pan out? Also typically the longer you're out of school the harder it's going to be to get a job. My field is urban planning with a focus on GIS. My interests include multimodal transportation and sustainability, two things that this particular small town doesn't factor much into their daily doings ... Aristotle Animes posted:Oh look, someone straight out of school doesn't want a job because they think the work, the pay and the people are beneath them. ... If my studies have taken me down a path of technical analysis, but I'm being hired to stand in the road with a GPS unit, yes, I would say that's beneath me. It would essentially put all of my graduate-level studies to little or no use. This was not revealed until the interview. There's a reason why the position only required an AA. You can teach any shmuck to stand around in the road, push a button, and then plug a thingy into a computer to make it all pop up on a computer screen. Would go to school to study chocolate teapot analysis, but then go work at Walmart just because they sell chocolate teapots? Don't be so quick to judge.
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Aug 16, 2014 02:00
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Cicero posted:Fair point right now, although if you're unable to find better employment within the next few months it'd probably be a better idea to just take what you can get and then keep looking. It seems unfair to an employer to accept a position knowing that you're going to be actively seeking other employment. To me, that looks worse on a resume than an unexplained amount of time unemployed after graduation. That, and the whole bridge-burning thing "Yes, hi, I've worked here for 2 months, but I'm going to go work someplace else now" probably isn't going to get me a letter of recommendation. quote:Well, you are planning on rejecting a decent paying job so that instead your parents can pay for all of your stuff at age 31. You know nothing of my past, so if this is a snarky comment about being lazy, just move along.
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Aug 16, 2014 02:13
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TwoSheds posted:Wait, wait... unfair to the employer? Are you serious? Do you have any idea how stacked the deck is against you, the employee, in this country? Your employer will not spare a second thought about your well-being if you don't end up working out in your new position, which thanks to at-will employment can happen for literally any reason or no reason at all. Why should you care about theirs? As for reference letters, if you're that sure you're above this position (hint: you're not), why would you want to use it as a reference anyway? Are YOU serious? How is it NOT unfair? An employer offers you a job in confidence. If you accept it, and then continue to seek employment elsewhere, that's kind of a lovely thing to do, regardless of how the deck is stacked again you. Doesn't this go against the generally-accepted idea of not burning any bridges? And in all seriousness, why does the general consensus seem to be that I'm "not above" this position? Why would I accept a position that I could do with significantly less education? Doesn't that sort of defeat the purpose of spending the last few years in school? TwoSheds posted:Seriously, I've seen employers hire people for a full-time job knowing they were going to fire them a few months in, regardless of their level of performance. As in, the employee unknowingly applied for a temporary position. gently caress employers. I suppose I might have more faith in my employer.
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Aug 16, 2014 02:34
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Aristotle Animes posted:My serious advice to you is getting some field work under your belt would do you some good. I'm in Environmental sciences and some of the people I work with are GIS guys for various DEP state agencies and USGS. The best data managers have field experience. They certainly respect their field crew because they understand what it takes to get the data, which is more than pushing a button. No one is looking at your resume and not seeing your MA. I actually have some field experience. Also, my undergraduate degree is in land surveying. The problem in this scenario is that that while they do see my MA, I feel they don't value it perhaps as much as I do. I feel that they're predominantly seeing my field experience and an opportunity to have me go to more of it. I don't mind going out in the field, but in all honesty, I went to grad school so I wouldn't be standing in the road with an orange vest after graduation. Do you feel that's an unfair assumption? I have friends with the same degree and a similar amount of experience who have jobs not requiring them to lift up manhole covers regularly.
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Aug 16, 2014 02:56
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spwrozek posted:You don't owe anyone but yourself anything. Then why am I supposed to be unhappy by accepting a job I don't want?
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Aug 16, 2014 03:00
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Eskaton posted:So you went into urban planning and have no interest in improving a town you think is crummy? Urban planning is already a tough market to get into, so 39k isn't even awful. In my defense, I wouldn't be working for the planning department. There is no growth there. Nothing happens. And everyone I know that was hired thus far has been hired above 39k with a LOT more room to grow. TwoSheds posted:Because it's an obvious stepping stone to a job that you do want. So I only owe it to myself, but I'm not allowed to be happy with the outcome? Or living there or commuting an hour each way? That doesn't make any sense to me. GILF Hunter fucked around with this message at 03:07 on Aug 16, 2014 |
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Aug 16, 2014 03:05
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Aristotle Animes posted:I'm going to tell you what I want to tell every MS that goes on about what system they modeled or how they studied algae in a certain bay or estuary; no one gives a poo poo about your graduate work and the sun rises an sets on systems you can't even begin to guess at. Besides that it wasn't real operational experience. It is worth noting what you did but it's like a paper route or something... it only says you may be able to walk or ride a bike. Can you deliver when it counts? Real job experience makes me feel a like someone is a safer bet. It also tells me that someone isn't going to bitch about something being beneath them. If I had a nickel for every worthless graduate that was giving everyone around them guff about something they didn't want to do. This is the job. There's a lot of poo poo I don't want to do, it's called work. I agree, I feel like real experience is the only truly valuable thing. When I say I have experience with field, I mean I have actual job experience, not some posh college experience. It's not a lot, and I chose to bail on it in the interest of furthering my education. Perhaps the problem I see with the suggestions offered (mainly about taking the job and continuing to look) is that I'd be unsure how to approach the next employer about why I'm leaving City of Many Doublewide Trailers so soon. What's to stop a future employer from assuming I'm going to bail on them in a few months? I've been given advice from both camps. Listen, I understand it's experience, but in all honesty, I don't feel that it's all that valuable experience. Standing in the road collecting GPS data on the locations of manholes is not going to make me better at spatial analyses of land use. llamaperl2 posted:As someone who has been on a hiring committee for a position like the one you have, if you sent this email, the hiring committee's response would be "eh", and "call the next guy". Odds are, there were 10 other strong candidates and you just managed to edge the others out. They don't have a "next guy". Why else would they have called me so quickly? The guy who would be my boss actually tried to offer the job to me halfway through the interview before the HR lady was like "hang on, he has to pass a drug test and other HR stuff". The position had been listed on their website for more than a month. Frankly, the salary is a little intimidating for someone holding a masters. As previously stated, most people I know who graduated with me are being paid about 10% more and are thousands of dollars away from the maximum salary for their position. Now, it's entirely possible that this stream of posts has taught me that my degree is less valuable than I see it. I won't deny that; but I see it as a settle to work in a place that I don't particular want to live (or commute to) and be paid less than my colleagues. Is that not fair?
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Aug 16, 2014 03:24
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Elephanthead posted:Well you would probably be fired in a week since you are a giant douche so I wouldn't worry too hard about letting them down easy. Don't list the job on your resume. Problem solved. Don't list the job in my resume and have a gap in my employment show because of a lie? That sounds like literally the worst advice in this whole thread.
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Aug 16, 2014 03:33
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LoreOfSerpents posted:It sounds like you got an offer and accepted it. If so, you've already done a lovely thing by accepting a job you didn't want. Some employers will just silently blacklist you for accepting a job and then backing out. You generally don't want to be in that position. Hindsight is 20/20. People make mistakes. I asked for them to push back the start date, but they refused. I don't see how this is more lovely than accepting a position, working it, and actively searching for other employment. quote:Yes. There are very good reasons not to pursue an advanced degree unless you know exactly what it will do for you first. Your degree path is very specific and there will be a lot of competition, so you should have been leveraging your connections in grad school to get you a job right after graduation. I know what it will do for me, and it should be better than this. quote:In my opinion, you should not list this job on your resume until you've been working there for at least 6 months. Treat it as an unemployment gap where you're getting paid. If people ask what you're doing in that gap, say "I'm doing some field work to pay the bills" and also talk about other things you've been doing to keep your knowledge relevant to your field (online classes, writing a blog about urban planning, whatever). Thank you for the constructive advice without the namecalling. quote:Why didn't those people help you get a job? They graduated alongside me and had better luck, I guess? Not everyone I graduated with is employed, however.
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Aug 16, 2014 03:41
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adorai posted:They aren't your colleagues. You haven't started your career yet. Correction: The people that graduated with me.
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Aug 16, 2014 03:41
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Rudager posted:Well for one, they're actually employed and so may have been able to negotiate a pay rise after 3-6 months. I've asked around a fair amount, and I see no reason why my colleagues (?) would lie to me. And for what it's worth, for government jobs (which planning jobs typically are) the salary is public information and can be acquired on the city or county website of most decent-sized municipalities.
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Aug 16, 2014 03:45
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moana posted:If I had to guess, I'd say because he's a giant douche and nobody wants to help a giant douche get a job. I'm a douche for wanting to be satisfied with my career? Alright! Eskaton posted:If you worked as land survey, couldn't you have moved within a company to the planning department? I mean it depends on the firm, but sounds easier than trying to apply from the outside. I worked in land surveying for a private firm before graduate school. At this current time, I'm seeking a job in the public sector.
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Aug 16, 2014 03:47
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Eskaton posted:Read that again. You go work there then. There might be an opening next week.
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Aug 16, 2014 03:52
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TwoSheds posted:For $39k? In a heartbeat. Dream small, kid.
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Aug 16, 2014 03:53
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moana posted:No, you're a douche for saying this: Suddenly, I'm the only person who is a shitbag for not wanting to live and work in a town with no growth and that has offered nothing to the area which surrounds it? Say, how high is that horse you're up on? I'm plenty exposed to the culture. I'm from here. But the people who I've connected with are not the people who are from here, it's the people that I met in school. Why is it unreasonable to be concerned with an inability to fit in socially? I mean that in all seriousness.
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Aug 16, 2014 04:01
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Aristotle Animes posted:You're a douche because you are quibbling over $3k vs. $0 and thinking that your entry level position out of grad school is somehow going to make you happy. How about being happy you got a job offer? Your 39K job aint so bad, you just want it all right now. Mostly, I'm quibbling over thinking about my future and being unhappy in a place I don't want to be. If you're chastising me for not taking a job in a place where I see having those problems, then we have differing views. Well, that much is obvious. 39k ain't so bad, I agree, but it's not great, and the other factors make it less and less appealing.
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Aug 16, 2014 04:05
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moana posted:No, you're a shitbag for thinking a $39k job is beneath you when the other option is a $0 job living with your parents. You are in a well and somebody is offering you a step, and you're spitting on them because you can't see the the top of the well yet. I think I know what your favorite word is. In all honesty, I'd love to have civil conversations with you folks. That said, if you've stated that you took a position because you wanted to be in education, why am I not allowed to hold out to get a position which is better suited to me? I doubt you read the job description; frankly it doesn't mesh with what I want in my career. Sure it supports it, but less so than you might think. It's like wanting a job installing windows, but getting a job installing doors. Sure, they're both holes in a wall, but they open in different ways. I am a bit pessimistic perhaps regarding relationships with other humans, which is admittedly part of my concern, but I have some optimism in my career that a better opportunity will eventually come along (and while not loving over my employer). I don't think that's really all that unfair?
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Aug 16, 2014 04:21
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Aristotle Animes posted:The only way I can think of that would make a lovely backwater less tolerable is if I had to live in a lovely backwater with my parents and no income. Aristotle Animes posted:I don't DO field work. What I DO do is stare at my father across the dinner table for months on end eating the food he bought. Wow, you sound really mad about something that impacts you in literally no way. Go for a walk, man.
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Aug 16, 2014 04:23
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adorai posted:GILF: Everyone here is saying the same thing, take the stupid job. It's entry level and probably won't challenge you, but it will put experience to your credentials and make you more marketable in a year or two. Also, if my kid turned down a paying job to live with me, after I presumably put them through or at least helped them with graduate school, I would throw them out on their rear end and they would be working at mcdonalds, regretting the day they turned down a real, honest to god career. I haven't turned it down yet; I'm still assessing the trade off between income and doing what I really want to do. In another part of this forum, someone would say "Do what makes you happy" (hopefully with less childish namecalling). But I came here for advice. And for whatever it's worth, my parents have paid minimally for my education. That is, they didn't pay my tuition, and I didn't get a month check from anyone to pay my rent. My parents would want me to be happy. Would you not want that for you kids? GILF Hunter fucked around with this message at 04:30 on Aug 16, 2014 |
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Aug 16, 2014 04:27
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TwoSheds posted:Your parents also want themselves to be happy, and their idea of happiness may not include supporting their adult child, who is turning down lucrative offers of employment. We have different families.
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Aug 16, 2014 04:32
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Aristotle Animes posted:You are literally leaching off your parents after you were offered a means to make your own way. I guess it's a good thing you're not one of my parents, right? For whatever it's worth, I would not be leaching off of my parents. I'd be working and supporting their small business, which happens to be well known and well respected in the community in which it resides. Happens to be something I enjoy too, which is nice. So please quit acting like I'm some sort of freeloader. You know absolutely nothing about me, my family, and my past.
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Aug 16, 2014 04:39
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Aristotle Animes posted:That'll look so much better than field work on your resume. You are awesome at this career thing! Maybe it won't, but at least I won't be as unhappy as you clearly are.
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Aug 16, 2014 04:44
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Florida Betty posted:You should do what makes you happy. But think about your happiness in the long term, not just the immediate future. Yes, this might not be the best job for you (though it really sounds like you're overstating the downsides), but it's definitely a stepping stone on the way to a better job. Most people don't get their dream job straight out of college (even grad school). You will look a lot better to other employers if you take this job. Thank you for the well worded advice. The downsides are important to me. After all, I studied planning, and using my car to drive 100 miles a day pretty much goes against what I've studied and would like to one day change. TwoSheds posted:It doesn't help that you're obfuscating things. You pretty heavily implied that you'd be unemployed if you moved back home. I would consider working for my parents to be the equivalent of being unemployed. My parents don't pay themselves; I wouldn't expect them to pay me. And they would welcome me into their home because that's what a family should do. For that, I am thankful. And since working for them offers zero career benefit (someone will bold quote me on this, surely) I realize the obvious downside, which is why I'm here for the advice. This forum feels that career should stand above all else -- as I expected. My request for advice elsewhere has yielded different results. It's a tough choice. GILF Hunter fucked around with this message at 04:57 on Aug 16, 2014 |
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Aug 16, 2014 04:53
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Aristotle Animes posted:Why are you so worried about who is happy? You keep explicitly whining about your own satisfaction and then turning it out on me now. I think it's you that fretting terribly about happiness because no one is giving you what you want when you want it. I'm only worried about me being happy. And my family. And my friends. You are none of those things, thank goodness. Alas, thank you for confirming that you have literally no idea what you're talking about -- my parents don't even live in this state.
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Aug 16, 2014 04:56
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adorai posted:In my experience, a big part of being happy is making your own way in the world. Regardless, if she told me a Ferrari would make her happy, I would tell her to go to medical school. Fair enough. However, I think it's also fair to have reasonable expectations. I don't want a Ferrari. Hell, I don't even want a car. I don't think it's unreasonable to think that I will find a job that suits my skills/interests/etc and isn't in a place where I feel trapped. For what it's worth, I once said "I want to do this thing where money isn't as much of a factor as you might think" and it was suggested that I go to graduate school. Maybe people give lovely advice. Hindsight is 20/20. GILF Hunter fucked around with this message at 05:12 on Aug 16, 2014 |
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Aug 16, 2014 05:03
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TwoSheds posted:So it's a choice between working for nothing and being beholden to your parents and supporting yourself while making a bit less than others in your field have been known to make? Doesn't seem like that hard of a choice to me. No. Still in the south, but in a different state. Honestly, if they lived where the job was, I'd be totally inclined. Another reason I'm having second thoughts is that although there is a low cost of living, there is a also a lack of housing. Many of the rentals actually won't accept people who make MORE than a certain amount. There's a reason why I called it the City of Many Doublewide Trailers.
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Aug 16, 2014 05:07
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TwoSheds posted:You're not ever going to be happy if you keep trying to force reality to give you exactly what you want with no compromise on your part. Life just doesn't work that way. Right, I agree wholeheartedly. From my standpoint, there seems to be a little more compromise than I may be willing to accept. I evaluate a) pay b) a place where I have friends or feel confident I'll meet new ones c) strong correlation with my interests. Do you think that shooting for a positive outcome on two of those is reasonable?
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Aug 16, 2014 05:11
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moana posted:I'm glad that you are asking around so that you can pick and choose the advice you want and ignore everything else. You're thinking we're saying that you should take this job because we just like jobs. We're saying take this job because you sound like a child and it's time to grow up. Sorry it's not the advice you want, maybe go back to posting where they tell you what you want to hear. How does one pick and choose the advice they want to hear? Advice comes from both sides. You have to choose a side and go with it. Just because you disagree with it doesn't mean it's wrong. But I must ask, were you as miserable in that singlewide as you are now?
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Aug 16, 2014 05:21
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TwoSheds posted:The thing is that all three of those things are workable and are largely dependent on your performance. Your pay may not be at the top of the curve, but people can and do get raises for good performance after awhile, even after they reach the top of the starting salary cap. Likewise, this job may not be relevant to your interests, but it may lead to other opportunities that are, either with a different employer or with the same one. Hell, you may find that your interests change. I agree. And while I did comment about 39k being less than my colleagues (or whatever we'll call them), I acknowledge it is still a very livable income. Honestly, I would say pay is the least important factor of those three, within reason. 39k is within reason; it's just discouraging to know that I could be making more. I disagree however on the friends thing. (Hell, I didn't make too many friends in this thread.) The city is small; there are few employees. There's no nightlife at all. I searched for "bars" on Yelp and the highest rated place open past 10 pm was Applebees. I met the people I would be working with, and they are not my age. I assure you that we do not have common interests (that is, I don't hunt, fish, or go muddin'). In browsing these and other forums, one of the suggesting I've seen for people who consider themselves lacking in friends is to meet new people who have common interests. But even resources like Reddit or Meetup.com for that city redirect to the city in which I currently live an hour away. I'll say yes -- not everyone is a gun shootin', truck drivin' redneck up there, but it's discouraging to think about having a small pool of resources to work with. It's actually the thing that's been of greatest consideration, and why I would likely continue to live where I am and commute. Of course, this subforum is not about making friends.
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Aug 16, 2014 05:32
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mongeese posted:I guess it's not the end of the world to not accept this offer if you feel that you can get something better soon, though I have no idea about your industry and it doesn't seem like you're having much luck in the job search. So maybe you should just accept the job and if you don't like it or get tired of the commute, then you could just apply to other places after six months. But if you feel that there are lots of other possibilities for you and you can get one of them soon, then go ahead and decline it. One of problems, if you want to call it that, is that I really want to work in the public sector (city, county, state government, or a non-profit). There are jobs ALL the time in my field. However, I think one of the issues is that planning is obviously location-based. Things vary from state to state, county to county. So while I may be qualified for a position in Oregon along with a dozen other people, planning in Oregon is a lot different than planning in my state. I feel that it's more likely that that municipalities want to hire people who have studied and worked in the region in which they're applying to, especially since "knowledge of [this locale]'s comprehensive plan" is frequently a requirement. There's a lot of similarities, but there's a lot of differences too. tl;dr: All but one of my interviews have been in the south. I don't see that as a coincidence.
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Aug 16, 2014 05:37
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Rudager posted:Now I understand why you think you're above the dirty poors, you're the stereotypical rich kid. You clearly don't know what a stereotypical rich kid is. My family is far from rich. My parents never bought me a brand new car. They didn't pay for any of my school. Move along, troll.
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Aug 16, 2014 05:38
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Eskaton posted:Have you tried gun shootin' and truck drivin'? I mean I'm probably as goony as you, but even I get along in my podunk little town in northern MI. It's one of those places where you need to make your own fun instead of buying it. I have. My current city is a college town surrounded southern people. In undergrad, I worked for a grocery store which catered predominantly to people who are "from" the college town (as opposed to students). I definitely met people and made friends and interacted with those who lived lifestyle that was new and different to me, but those relationships are definitely not as strong as the ones I made with people in college. I wouldn't consider myself TOO goony, but I do have some pretty goony friends.
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Aug 16, 2014 05:44
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spwrozek posted:I feel like you are not even considering our side. Just don't take the job (since that is what you want) and hopefully you can find something else before you are taking over the family business instead (where the masters is relevant how?). I do see your side. What I want is for someone to see my side. I value being happy. I would like to live in a place where I don't feel trapped and alone. I feel that is perfectly fair. This thread says "gently caress being happy for now, just go work there because you need a career and that's the most important thing". That's difficult for me to swallow given how I've lived my life to this point.
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Aug 16, 2014 05:47
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Rudager posted:It's pretty douchebaggy to judge people based on stereotypes without even really meeting them. It's more than just shooting guns, come on. I'm not judging people based upon stereotypes; I've lived in the south my whole life, and in this part of the state for 10 years. The thing is that if City of Many Doublewide Trailers had a bunch of people living in it that shared interests with me, it would be a much greater city than it is. It would have more than 10,000 people living in it. It would have a nightlife of some kind. Yes, not every single person there is the total opposite of me, I'm not saying that. But with less people to meet and bond over interests, it concerns me that I will be alone.
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Aug 16, 2014 05:54
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spwrozek posted:Can you sacrifice to start your career and give yourself a chance at long term happiness? That's the million dollar question.
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Aug 16, 2014 05:57
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spwrozek posted:You couldn't be more wrong. You aren't getting interviews elsewhere because at that pay and the apparent number of people in the field why would they take a chance on an unproven person and move them or tell them to move. I'm not saying my assumption is true. I really don't have any idea for sure. Does anyone? Job hunting sucks and there's a million reasons why Joe could get picked over Bob. GILF Hunter fucked around with this message at 06:00 on Aug 16, 2014 |
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Aug 16, 2014 05:58
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TwoSheds posted:Your feelings are valid, but the thing you have to remember is that the unhappiness in this situation will be temporary. You can't expect to be happy for your entire life and never encounter hardship. It may happen, as in this case, that you will have to bring hardship upon yourself in order to achieve happiness in the future. And while you could bypass this hardship to be comfortable and safe at home, you might potentially do serious harm to your career, and you would miss out on a great chance to build character and raise your self-esteem by doing something you didn't think you were capable of. This is how some of these posts should have been worded.
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Aug 16, 2014 06:06
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Cicero posted:There you go with your obsession with other people's happiness. News flash: just because someone thinks you're an idiot or a douche doesn't mean they're desperately unhappy. News flash: If you're getting mad about something that impacts you in no way whatsoever, you're probably a pretty angry and unhappy person.
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Aug 16, 2014 06:09
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It honestly sounds like you're projecting.
YOU DON'T KNOW ME!! 
complex.