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Rahonavis
Jan 11, 2012

"Clevuh gurrrl..."


CoolCab posted:

I love how we establish that there are no non-sentient animals, and then later Bojack orders a huge steak from a cow waitress and sheepishly goes "sorry!".

On a similar note, I pretty much lost it when we saw the LaBrea Tarpits.

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nooneofconsequence
Oct 29, 2012

she had tiny Italian boobs.
Well that's my story.


CoolCab posted:

I love how we establish that there are no non-sentient animals, and then later Bojack orders a huge steak from a cow waitress and sheepishly goes "sorry!".
Did they establish that? I don't remember any non-anthropomorphic animals.

And it was just a random guy at the counter getting a steak, not Bojack.

Trabisnikof
Dec 24, 2005

It's always 2am somewhere.


nooneofconsequence posted:

Did they establish that? I don't remember any non-anthropomorphic animals.

And it was just a random guy at the counter getting a steak, not Bojack.

Do we actually ever see Bojack eat meat?

And Tyler Too!
Aug 15, 2007
JOCKEY OWNS

Stichelin it is, thank you!


Macdeo Lurjtux posted:

Maybe it's the background animal people doing animal things but this show really reminds me of Ugly Americans.

If it weren't for Ugly Americans I probably would have passed over this show.

Ugly In The Morning
Jul 1, 2010


Bleremiah posted:

Watched the whole series over a couple of days with a friend who'd been pestering me about it a while.

The "people just want to watch 30 minutes light entertainment with a positive ending" in the first episode was a good setup for the show quickly becoming the exact opposite. The agent's 40th birthday phone reminder was and Bojack's "Am I a good person" still stick in my head. I also thought "Downer Ending" was going to be the final episode, and it would've made for a fantastically bleak one if that'd been the case.

But then we would've missed out all of Tod and PB's wonderful ideas and pitches.

Even just the title worked given what Diane had said an episode before about "what happens after a happy ending?". In this case, it was a downer ending, but Bojack had gotten everything he said he wanted at the start. It was cool seeing things pick up from the rubble.

Pellisworth
Jun 20, 2005

Hi, I am listening to the new Weepies album and sipping on some ice tea... with a slice of lemon, of course! Tomorrow I plan on growing a pair of ovaries.


Messyass posted:

My favorite animal gag was the segment with Princess Carolyn doing different exercises in the gym and one of them is a scratching post.

Yeah, and on one of the treadmills is a sloth. Just hanging.

i am the bird
Mar 2, 2005

I SUPPORT ALL THE PREDATORS


Doctor_Fruitbat posted:

My favourite animal moment was when Mr Peanutbutter opened the trunk full of tennis balls and while still talking to Diane, just for a brief moment, looks at the tennis balls and goes 'oo!'

I'm glad this got picked up for a second season, but I'm definitely wary about how many it can go on for without treading water. I think it needs to be judged on a season-by-season basis, see what they set up for the next one and whether it seems like they can keep the momentum going.

I'm not sure if they can hit the same emotional notes, but I think there are plenty of topics to address. The obvious thematic follow-up for most of the characters is what to do with success. I'm particularly interested in seeing more from Diane, who is 'successful' but keeps making 'safe,' familiar choices: marrying Mr. Peanutbutter, taking the Secretariat job instead of promoting humanitarian work, working with BoJack again, etc.

BoJack is suddenly successful and popular again but now he's legitimately worried about being a bad person. Playing Secretariat might just fuel that, as well, considering that Secretariat doesn't seem like that great of a role model. Maybe BoJack will try to settle down? Todd is now PB Livin' large, suggesting he might move out of BoJack's place -- what will happen to that relationship? Princess Carolyn is happy with work and finally in a stable relationship... with 3 kids stacked on top of each other. Mr. Peanutbutter is a total doof but apparently has a so-far unexplored dark side (see: his horrible advice to Diane about finding distractions until death comes).

We could see the other now-grown actors from Horsin' Around (or Mr. Peanutbutter's House), the return of Herb (or his funeral), the return of Charlotte, other family members, exploration of character backgrounds (e.g., How did BoJack fall from success last time? What's Todd's deal? How'd Diane get to Hollywoo?), etc. There are plenty of opportunities for new characters to emerge as well.

Dolash
Oct 23, 2008

aNYWAY,
tHAT'S REALLY ALL THERE IS,
tO REPORT ON THE SUBJECT,
oF ME GETTING HURT,


Yeah, I'm a little iffy on a second season too but they're not short on material. At a guess filming Secretariat will probably serve the same narrative purpose as the memoir did in the first season, which is a window into Bojack's own issues - particularly since Diane's on the project.

My bet is Bojack will want to gloss over his hero's flaws and see giving Secretariat a redemptive take as a way to redeem himself, while Diane, who knows him well and whose job it is to rein in the production, will have to challenge him on those beliefs. It's actually a pretty good way to change up the way they did things with the memoir, particularly since neither of them are in charge of the movie and the concern is making it sell rather than making it faithful.

A few obvious episodes and scenes suggest themselves. There'll probably be an early episode about Bojack getting into shape and the challenge of looking like a horse half his age, and I'd be stunned if Bojack doesn't go visit Charlotte at some point (probably discovering she's married with kids or some such thing). Herb's funeral is almost certain, too.

Dolash fucked around with this message at Sep 20, 2014 around 22:03

nooneofconsequence
Oct 29, 2012

she had tiny Italian boobs.
Well that's my story.


I thought Diane was the weakest character so hopefully she becomes more interesting in season 2.

Old Boot
May 9, 2012




nooneofconsequence posted:

I thought Diane was the weakest character so hopefully she becomes more interesting in season 2.

I thought she was mostly there as a foil to anchor all the weirdness of the other characters, which is kind of necessary if you're striking the kind of balance the second half of the season was going for. Served a good purpose in that sense, and still managed to have her moments.

LeJackal
Apr 4, 2011
Probation
Can't post for 25 days!


Naet posted:

BoJack is suddenly successful and popular again but now he's legitimately worried about being a bad person. Playing Secretariat might just fuel that, as well, considering that Secretariat doesn't seem like that great of a role model. Maybe BoJack will try to settle down? Todd is now PB Livin' large, suggesting he might move out of BoJack's place -- what will happen to that relationship? Princess Carolyn is happy with work and finally in a stable relationship... with 3 kids stacked on top of each other. Mr. Peanutbutter is a total doof but apparently has a so-far unexplored dark side (see: his horribleinsightful advice to Diane about finding distractions until death comes).

I fixed that for you - and yes, i want to see more of Mr. Peanutbutter. He is very interesting and I'm curious to see more of his inner mental workings.

i am the bird
Mar 2, 2005

I SUPPORT ALL THE PREDATORS


nooneofconsequence posted:

I thought Diane was the weakest character so hopefully she becomes more interesting in season 2.

Old Boot posted:

I thought she was mostly there as a foil to anchor all the weirdness of the other characters, which is kind of necessary if you're striking the kind of balance the second half of the season was going for. Served a good purpose in that sense, and still managed to have her moments.

I liked Diane's characterization. She's arguably the most well-rounded character besides BoJack.

Like BoJack, she comes from an emotionally abusive family and faced severe bullying in school. Both of them run away from their childhoods as soon as they get the chance. They're both drawn to Secretariat, a horseman whose philosophy for dealing with problems is to run. BoJack uses people for his own selfish purposes, including betraying Herb and treating everyone like poo poo in his later life, and Diane calls him out on it. But, she profits from the actions of two flawed and destructive people -- Secretariat and BoJack -- while in many ways exhibiting their behavior, including selling out BoJack's personal life when it suits her. In doing that, she exploits a past relationship with Wayne to get her way. Hell, she goes to Boston for the express purpose of showing her family that she's better than they are, not to mourn or pay respects. Her family thinks of her as a Hollywoo big-shot, and she has no intention of correcting them. Diane jabs BoJack for his phobia of commitment, his jumping from woman to woman, and his undercutting of Todd to avoid being alone; yet, she stays with Mr. Peanutbutter out of her own fear of being alone, possibly even as a subconscious revenge on the teenage cheerleaders who mocked her, despite the fact that he's clearly no good for her and doesn't really support her beyond vapid gifts and empty gestures. He's just a safe choice. He'll never hurt her and she'll have a financially comfortable lifestyle, but she'll never be as happy as she could be. At the end of the season, she passes up an opportunity to use her writing for a good purpose, instead choosing to tread water on the Secretariat movie, yet another safe and directionless decision (and a more lucrative choice than humanitarian work). Even her career as ghostwriter kind of reflects her desire to engage in the BoJack/Secretariat lifestyle while maintaining moral superiority and remaining invisible and untouchable, a low-risk place where the cruel world can't really reach her.

When Diane says that there is no 'deep down,' she's talking about herself. She once thought she was better than BoJack, better than her family, etc., but what has she really done to prove that? She might not be as directly destructive as BoJack -- and even then, she's clearly capable of it considering her hulking out in Boston -- but she lives in the wake of that destruction.


edit: I'm writing a lot of words about a show with a horseman protagonist. I feel like Tom Haverford. "A piece of art caused me to have an emotional reaction. Is that normal?"

i am the bird fucked around with this message at Sep 21, 2014 around 02:18

DivisionPost
Jun 28, 2006

Nobody likes you.
Everybody hates you.
You're gonna lose.

Smile, you fuck.


Naet posted:

edit: I'm writing a lot of words about a show with a horseman protagonist. I feel like Tom Haverford. "A piece of art caused me to have an emotional reaction. Is that normal?"

I just find it hilarious that you're calling it "Hollywoo".

Seriously, that's a great read and I feel inferior for not having picked up on it to begin with.

Old Boot
May 9, 2012




Naet posted:

very good

I want to point out that I wasn't disagreeing with this. Just because she's a foil (and she is) doesn't diminish that there's actual characterization happening. It's more that she's the voice of sanity in comparison to the rest of the characters. She's, for lack of a better comparison, the closest thing to the audience as possible, so people saying she's dull is kind of expected. The foil always seems dull when they're surrounded by outright, batshit crazy.

What you describe is a normal, human life, even if it is surrounded by animal people (and occasionally susceptible to a bar-destroying tantrum). In the context of the show, where nearly everyone in it is a satire in and of themselves, it's going to seem almost pointless to showcase. But not to everyone.

I honestly hope she remains roughly the same type of character throughout the series, because she's absolutely necessary as a grounding element. And, again, it's doubtful that the series could have been anything other than 'Archer/Family Guy/whatever, but with occasional emotions and animal people' without her there.

i am the bird
Mar 2, 2005

I SUPPORT ALL THE PREDATORS


Old Boot posted:

I want to point out that I wasn't disagreeing with this. Just because she's a foil (and she is) doesn't diminish that there's actual characterization happening. It's more that she's the voice of sanity in comparison to the rest of the characters. She's, for lack of a better comparison, the closest thing to the audience as possible, so people saying she's dull is kind of expected. The foil always seems dull when they're surrounded by outright, batshit crazy.

What you describe is a normal, human life, even if it is surrounded by animal people (and occasionally susceptible to a bar-destroying tantrum). In the context of the show, where nearly everyone in it is a satire in and of themselves, it's going to seem almost pointless to showcase. But not to everyone.

I honestly hope she remains roughly the same type of character throughout the series, because she's absolutely necessary as a grounding element. And, again, it's doubtful that the series could have been anything other than 'Archer/Family Guy/whatever, but with occasional emotions and animal people' without her there.

Sorry, I didn't mean to present your quote that way. I was using it as a jumping off point to argue against Diane as a weak character. I 100% agree that she's a foil and that she's the most grounded character/audience mediator, with the caveat that she shares more with BoJack than she'd like to and that the audience could/should probably feel the same way, warts and all.

Dolash
Oct 23, 2008

aNYWAY,
tHAT'S REALLY ALL THERE IS,
tO REPORT ON THE SUBJECT,
oF ME GETTING HURT,


It's also kind of important to have some more normal, relatable characters around because if your world is made up of nothing but assholes and morons then it's harder to care about the protagonist being an rear end in a top hat. Stealing those muffins from the seal doesn't bother us much because the seal's kind of an rear end too, but when Bojack hurts other characters Diane helps us cut through his bullshit smokescreens and get at his actual motivations. Todd and Princess both get the chance to call Bojack out as well, usually when Diane's not available (sometimes because she's the one Bojack's going to hurt today), and when they do they sound a lot more grounded and straightforward than they do when they're taking part in some wacky shenanigans.

DaWolfey
Oct 24, 2003



College Slice

I went into this show knowing nothing, it just popped up on Netflix and I wanted to watch something short and light. I really enjoyed it and I am very pleased I got past the first few episodes, allowing time for the characters to gain depth and a story to unfold - far more than the "oh it's just going to be a bunch of animal sight gags and some losers getting into scrapes every week" I thought it was going to remain after the first few episodes.

My problem is with Todd. As the characters gained depth, he did not. By the end he was just as flat as he had started and was completely unnecessary both to the plot, and to the show. I think this was exemplified when Bojack goes to see Kazazz, a big thing for him and the story as a whole and Todd is just sat in the car and he has his own self contained side-story with the robbers which amounts to nothing, affecting nothing.

liquorlanche
Sep 10, 2014


Naet posted:

Princess Carolyn is happy with work and finally in a stable relationship... with 3 kids stacked on top of each other.

It's not all perfect. Vincent is a complex man. Sometimes he's just too "adult" when all Carolyn needs is an escape from reality. He's also fairly detached, at times. When he gets home from a long day at the business factory, he's so tired from all those financial transactions, he just wants to spend the whole night watching rated R movies.

I am Reverend
Sep 21, 2008

Pheromosa's Special Attack rose!


Do the animals in this show's universe have human or animal lifespans? Princess Carolyn might be the same age as any of the kids that make up Vincent Adultman.

Cojawfee
May 31, 2006
I think the US is dumb for not using Celsius

Horses have an average lifespan of 25-30 years and Bojack is 50.

Dolash
Oct 23, 2008

aNYWAY,
tHAT'S REALLY ALL THERE IS,
tO REPORT ON THE SUBJECT,
oF ME GETTING HURT,


Carolyn is 40, so I'm guessing they're using human lifespans. I don't expect the show to ever go into detail about why some characters are animals, that's just part of the premise and to lighten the mood.

DivisionPost
Jun 28, 2006

Nobody likes you.
Everybody hates you.
You're gonna lose.

Smile, you fuck.


Of everything to talk about with BoJack Horseman, why am I so obsessed with how much Keith Olbermann loves it?



Doctor_Fruitbat
Jun 2, 2013



DaWolfey posted:

I went into this show knowing nothing, it just popped up on Netflix and I wanted to watch something short and light. I really enjoyed it and I am very pleased I got past the first few episodes, allowing time for the characters to gain depth and a story to unfold - far more than the "oh it's just going to be a bunch of animal sight gags and some losers getting into scrapes every week" I thought it was going to remain after the first few episodes.

This is one of the things I'm really loving about Netflix's own shows, as the fact they dump every episode online at once means you don't get the same bullshit that kills shows on television - weekly pacing isn't going to kill viewing figures due to enforced pacing, network execs can't diddle the scheduling to screw with the show and if anyone starts a series but doesn't think it's going anywhere, they'll have the people who went ahead of them saying "no no, they totally address those issues, stick with it!"

Raar_Im_A_Dinosaur
Mar 16, 2006

GOOD LUCK!!


When it comes down to it, I really think Keith Olberman just really wants to be cool.

DivisionPost
Jun 28, 2006

Nobody likes you.
Everybody hates you.
You're gonna lose.

Smile, you fuck.


Raphael Bob-Waksberg and Lisa Hanawalt are jumping onto Reddit in about 20 minutes for an AMA.

hcreight
Mar 19, 2007

My name is Oliver Queen...


DivisionPost posted:

Of everything to talk about with BoJack Horseman, why am I so obsessed with how much Keith Olbermann loves it?





Wouldn't a Whale news anchor be anti-Whaler?

Checkmate, Olbermann.

Thorias
Jun 3, 2008


Marathoned the series while recovering from Gallbladder surgery, the first few eps started out okay, but I slowly found it growing on me after each ep, until it climaxed with the season finale. Really enjoyed the subtle and not-so subtle jokes, and grew to really feel for the characters. It was a bit of a surprise, and I've been recommending it to friends and adding that they should stick with it past the first few episodes to really get into the groove of it.

scourgeofthe7bees
Jun 21, 2008


I for one lost my poo poo at the human mariachi who looked exactly like the frog mariachi. Also, Vincent Adultman reminds me of Chicken Boo.

Fezz
Aug 31, 2001
You should feel ashamed.

Cojawfee posted:

Horses have an average lifespan of 25-30 years and Bojack is 50.

Then again, Lennie Turtletaub is well over 100 years old.

Punch Card
Sep 13, 2005

by Ralp


Raar_Im_A_Dinosaur posted:

When it comes down to it, I really think Keith Olberman just really wants to be cool.

And it's kind of helping him get there, too.

Rocksicles
Oct 19, 2012

DAAAAAMN!
Put your glasses back on.


Cojawfee posted:

Horses have an average lifespan of 25-30 years and Bojack is 50.

He's also a self destructive drug addicted bipedal talking horse, that drives a car.

edit: he also has human hands and feet

Rocksicles fucked around with this message at Sep 27, 2014 around 17:33

Gromit
Aug 15, 2000

I am an oppressed White Male, Asian women wont serve me! Save me Campbell Newman!!!!!!!


I'm talking backwards! Aaron Paul is dead.

mrfart
May 26, 2004

Dear diary, today I
became a captain.


It took me a while before my penny dropped.
But I finally realized where I recognized those characters from.
Lisa Hanawalt's book: my dirty dumb eyes.
She did all the character designs.
I had a talk with her at comic-con 2 years ago. I was the only one there to get her book signed.
Something tells me she'll have a bit more people cueing at her booth next time.
She's very nice, and I hope she'll have time left to make other books.

Entropic
Feb 21, 2007

patriarchy sucks


http://thehairpin.com/2012/01/war-h...strated-review/
It's all starting to make sense.

withak
Jan 15, 2003


Grimey Drawer

mrfart posted:

It took me a while before my penny dropped.
But I finally realized where I recognized those characters from.
Lisa Hanawalt's book: my dirty dumb eyes.
She did all the character designs.
I had a talk with her at comic-con 2 years ago. I was the only one there to get her book signed.
Something tells me she'll have a bit more people cueing at her booth next time.
She's very nice, and I hope she'll have time left to make other books.

I spent a lot more time than I should have trying to figure out what meter I was supposed to read this post in.

Ugly In The Morning
Jul 1, 2010


I just decided to toss an episode on to fill some time and ended up rewatching the whole front half of the show. It's really worth a rewatch once you know the direction the show is going. It's too bad that most of the reviews out there are of the first half of the show without the ending.

DivisionPost
Jun 28, 2006

Nobody likes you.
Everybody hates you.
You're gonna lose.

Smile, you fuck.


Ugly In The Morning posted:

I just decided to toss an episode on to fill some time and ended up rewatching the whole front half of the show. It's really worth a rewatch once you know the direction the show is going. It's too bad that most of the reviews out there are of the first half of the show without the ending.

I recently found myself doing my own rewatch; I actually blazed through 1 to 8 and then had to stop for a long while because I just didn't want to go through 9 again. (I didn't want to go through 10 either, but that's because it's my least favorite episode of this batch). But I picked it back up a few days ago, gritted my teeth through those two episodes, and got my rear end kicked all over again by "Downer Ending" and "Later."

Something that's not given enough props in this thread: That Teagan and Sara song at the end was a masterstroke. They took a song about loving a boyfriend, and turned it into something about the desperation to connect with others on a deeper level, reflecting BoJack's revelation (however temporary) that even with everything he ever wanted, he's still a lonely, deeply unhappy individual.

And it drops right after he learns that he's someone's hero. Killed me.

Dr. Arbitrary
Mar 15, 2006



Bleak Gremlin

Has everyone been following their Facebook? I'll repost the pictures when I'm not posting from a phone but there's some pictures of old scenes from Horsin' Around. Most recently they showed a still from a Halloween episode.

nooneofconsequence
Oct 29, 2012

she had tiny Italian boobs.
Well that's my story.


DivisionPost posted:

That Teagan and Sara song at the end was a masterstroke. They took a song about loving a boyfriend
There's something you might not know about Tegan and Sara.

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Elysiume
Aug 13, 2009

Alone, she fights.


nooneofconsequence posted:

There's something you might not know about Tegan and Sara.
They're Canadian

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