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Kawalimus posted:Wow what a show. And I thought The Wire was bleak. But I enjoyed this a lot. A lot of people seem to be suggesting that sex scandals will play a major role in season 5, and I'm not really seeing it. They'd either have to make a main character a rapist, or do a "nuanced" he-said-she-said take, both of which are far beneath this show. Plus they already had a stellar episode about it two years ago. Mr Peanutbutter is a certified good boy and will continue to be a good boy. The beauty of his and Diane's relationship is that it can handle anything except their fundamental inability to connect emotionally. They are not going to end it because of Mr Peanutbutter's unexplored dark past.
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Jan 22, 2018 05:12
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Lurdiak posted:There's no way they still have a relationship by episode 2 of season 5. Well yeah, but it'll be because of all their personal issues. Bust Rodd posted:Penny tweeting about Bojack could easily be the meat of Season 5, and Is like to the think the writers are smart enough to address this because it’s basically a massive elephant in the room at this point. How would it work in practice, though? What would be the angle? How much punishment does Bojack deserve? Hank Hippopopalous was Harvey Weinstein as much as he was Bill Cosby, and the show made it clear that he was an irredeemable piece of poo poo who deserved no sympathy. Bojack is not Hank Hippopopalous; he has never used his celebrity status to take sexual advantage of women, and the Penny incident was the lowest point of his life and his greatest regret. If it came out that Bojack had had a romp of casting couch adventures earlier in his career, he would no longer be a sympathetic character. If it didn't, drawing parallels between him and the Hippopopali of the world would be doing a huge disservice to the victims of the latter.
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Jan 22, 2018 19:39
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Bojack genuinely did not care, blew off all his responsibilities and busied himself ruining his one remaining past relation in the worst way possible, and he still starred in a major blockbuster and helped more orphans than Diane ever managed. It's the (gut)punchline of her entire season 2 arc.
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Feb 7, 2018 16:09
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I don't know what ethnicity you guys think Diane is supposed to be, since she's clearly American as pho.
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Feb 8, 2018 02:06
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AceOfFlames posted:Geez, a lot of sudden slams on Diane. I personally struggle with whether what I do is meaningful in any sense but I am also deathly afraid of responsibility. Should I just do whatever I feel like? Do something meaningful that isn't jumping into a live warzone. Local volunteer work, or even just donating to charity. Don't set out to change the world.
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Feb 8, 2018 15:16
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Mr. Peanutbutter and Bojack Horseman in the same bed? What is this, a fan-fiction episode?
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Feb 8, 2018 20:29
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Has there been any stories of genuine contrition in response to #MeToo? The closest I can think of is Aziz Ansari saying he's sorry to that lady he throatscraped. The Hollywood scandal is outing fuckers who deserve to burn, while Bojack Horseman is a show about tragically flawed, sympathetic characters.
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Feb 17, 2018 16:29
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I honestly don't think a #MeToo plotline from the viewpoint of, and sympathetic to, the perpetrator is a very good idea. All the current big ticket stories are about relentless fuckers who spent decades abusing their power and taking advantage of women. I don't see how you could put Bojack in the same context as someone like Harvey Weinstein without either humanizing the latter or completely loving up the character of the former. The show did have one character with no redeeming qualities whatsoever, and I think it was the right decision to make Hank Hippopapalous incontrovertibly a villain.
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Feb 17, 2018 18:02
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Motherfucker posted:I dunno man, aside from a few jokes most of the animal people's personalities are pretty much indistinguishable from human. Like to the point where it would undermine the message of the show to draw attention to that. I dunno, man. Mr. Peanutbutter is a perennial people pleaser, Princess Carolyn is aloof and self-sufficient, and Bojack is short-sighted and self-destructive. Not so much for the minor characters, but the main cast and seasonal characters are basically their animal stereotypes.
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Feb 19, 2018 00:39
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Motherfucker posted:I don't get how horses are short sighted and self destructive but I guess thats cuz I'm not a horse person. http://fishmech.tumblr.com/post/127359129398/horses
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Feb 19, 2018 00:50
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Hot take: Mr. Peanutbutter and Diane are both good people who care about each other.
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Feb 19, 2018 11:11
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E: What does any of that have to do with Vincent Adultman?  Koalas March posted:Honestly, I would like for the writers to make Bojack or MPB get embroiled in #MeToo, and the strongest argument against it ("They're too likeable!") is kinda why I want it to happen. Part of the problem is that abusers in their day to day life are likeable and seem like cool dudes. Alright, so what would the fallout be? Turns out Mr. Peanutbutter took sexual advantage of a dozen interns and it never came up before. Now it's out. Is Mr. Peanutbutter eventually forgiven, because he's genuinely a nice guy who didn't actually mean any harm? Will there be a slow reveal that Mr. Peanutbutter is actually toxic and manipulative in all his interaction and he deservedly crashes and burns? Will it be a whole big thing that eventually blows over and lets thing settle into an awkward status-quo-but-not-really where people treat him as a bit of a creep but he's still rich and famous through sheer force of personality?
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Feb 19, 2018 17:44
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LividLiquid posted:Friends, were it on the air today, shouldn't ignore MeToo either. Alright, how about this hot take: Bojack Horseman already adressed #MeToo, back in season 2. pospysyl posted:I think it's almost a certainty that Me Too will come up next season, even if they don't mention the hashtag specifically. Nowadays Bojack's behavior reads much differently from last year. It's tough to rewatch season 2 episode 11 or the episode in season 4 where he visits all of his partners. I think the show would be better off if they acknowledged what they've already portrayed on screen. The show hasn't shied away from portraying Bojack in a negative light before, and it's been pretty good about staying topical without feeling dated. It's not like Bojack even needs to be, like, punished for anything that he's done. He's not a criminal (at least, not a sex criminal). The resolution to all of his behavior is sincerely apologizing, accepting the consequences for your actions, and making a real effort to be different, which is the entire point of the show anyway. A story about Hollywood and #MeToo where the perpetrator is ultimately sympathetic undermines the whole point of the #MeToo movement. In a different setting, or in a world where career rapist don't have legions of advocates calling women slut bitches for being coerced and/or drugged, maybe. But in Bojack Horseman, today, any #MeToo story needs to be about sex criminals.
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Feb 21, 2018 13:41
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This penis has been inside this vagina? ...But in a sexual way?
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Feb 22, 2018 20:51
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Astroman posted:Here's somethings I can guarantee about next season: Ooh, does the thing happen where another person muses on how people react to it and very proudly point out that the way they did it didn't satisfy literally everyone? I bet it will happen!
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Feb 25, 2018 17:19
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ly connect the dots and say that the tone deaf and hamfisted covering of sexual assault combined with the casting of a white woman as Diane proves that the show creator is a secret white patriarchal cishet shitlord all along and "I TOTALLY knew that"
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Vanessa Gecko!? That slippery, slimy, cold-blooded, bug eyed- What's new, pussy-cat?
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Apr 6, 2018 17:58
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I mean, we've seen severe breakdowns in Bojack, Diane and Princess Carolyn, and each dealt with it in different ways. Todd has been having a slow-burn arc and learned to keep a healthy distance from toxic people without severing or crashing and burning. I can see why people think it's time for Mr. Peanutbutter to get his turn, but there's no reason to believe he'll melt down like Bojack or Sarah Lynn did.
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Jun 28, 2018 15:08
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Bust Rodd posted:Really try to imagine the mind of a grown person who willingly ignores his wife lying about staying at a friend’s house for 3 months two miles up the street when she was supposed to be in a war-torn country thousands of miles away Uh, he gave Diane exactly what she needed in that moment; a chance to come home with no pressure piled on top of her Survivor’s Guilt and severe depression. It’s the most socially conscious action any character in the series has ever taken. Season 3 had a counselor show up in a couple episodes to show that they were working through it, and that Mr. PB was afraid of Diane disappearing on him again.
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Jun 28, 2018 22:46
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My favorite little thing is that Bojack says "What are you doing here?" to someone in every episode in season 2 and it's always in a different context, culminating in ending season 2 by saying "What am I doing here?" before going off to save Todd from the
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Jun 30, 2018 12:38
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Straight White Shark posted:Is it literally every episode? I've noticed the significance of the repeated question before but never quite watched closely enough to catch it in every episode. It is. Some are pretty minor, like when Carolyn shows up at Herb’s funeral or on Mr. Peanutbutter’s game show, but others include asking Diane what exactly she’s doing taking on Hippopopalous or Penny showing up on his boat at night.
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Jun 30, 2018 18:53
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That episode also hammered home that despite Bojack’s attempts at progress, he was still incredibly toxic. Season 4’s ending felt a lot warmer because that was the first time he genuinely put another person’s well-being ahead of his own, and didn’t ask for anything in return.
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Jun 30, 2018 23:50
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Bust Rodd posted:Yeah but the nice thing he did was wait in a line for a few hours, donated some money to an orphanage, and brought a seahorse baby home once and then the bad things he did were like, uh... UUUUUUUHHHHHHHHHHHHH I'm talking about Season 4, though, Bojack actually cared for Hollyhock in a genuine fashion that he never managed with Todd, Princess Carolyn or Sarah Lynn, who he only kept around to validate himself. He was far, far from perfect, but he ended up letting go of his hatred for Beatrice and managed to establish an actual connection with his sister/daughter because he stopped asking for anything in return. The entire show up until the introduction of Hollyhock has been about how toxic Bojack is and how his attempts at being better backfired because he was always ultimately in it for himself, and I'm not sure in what world those chickens haven't already all come home to roost. I'd much rather season 5 keeps focusing on Bojack's incremental progress (without letting him forget the damage he's done, obviously), while allowing the other main characters to shine.
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Jul 1, 2018 23:16
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Ruthie didn't hit me that hard because I'd already seen that exact premise on another show and saw it coming from miles away. I think the biggest gut punch for me was Escape From L.A. I mean, the ending was exactly what I was expecting at the start of the episode, but the entire build up made it seem like Bojack was actually capable of not burning everything to the ground. The overall most wrenching episodes were Hank After Dark and Time's Arrow for sure, though. The latter is the only piece of adult media that's ever given me literal nightmare's. The only thing to strike a personal chord is Mr. Peanutbutter when he and Diane fight. I've been that boyfriend more often than I care to admit.
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Jul 7, 2018 04:00
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I'm pretty sure most people have that voice. Like, not that specific voice, but something telling you that you're not as good as you could be, or the idea that all your friends and loved ones only barely tolerate you, or that whatever is currently bringing you down is entirely your own fault, and everyone who looks at you knows it. I don't think I've met anyone who's never felt that way.
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Jul 7, 2018 10:33
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Bojack is an incredibly flawed person, but he actually tries to be better, and has several moments of clarity amongst his many fuckups. I don't see how you can compare him to Walter White or Space Todd who have basically no redeeming qualities.
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Jul 10, 2018 02:24
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Bust Rodd posted:This show is about a lot of things, but dealing with the repercussions of your mistakes isn’t really one of them, as illustrated by Herb just saying “no dude I don’t accept your apology you suck, gently caress you.” and dying without giving any closure I don't know what universe you live in where Herb dying after telling Bojack to gently caress off and that he'll never forgive him, Sarah Lynn dying in his arms, or Penny being traumatized by the very sight of Bojack isn't repercussions. What exactly do you want to happen to Bojack? The whole point is that he's wealthy and well-regarded in spite of his personal life being a shitshow and hating himself. It's not an accident that Todd is simultaneously the only character who is destitute and disregarded but also happy and healthy.
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Jul 10, 2018 18:03
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He did give Mr. PB a pretty stern yet sensual smooch in the Let's Find Out! episode.
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Jul 14, 2018 14:29
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Milkfred E. Moore posted:You mean outside of the text entirely and introduced in a tweet? Was Dumbledore being straight ever alluded to in the text? I know people like to dog on Rowling for only being inclusive after the fact, and it's a fair criticism, but I personally dig that his sexuality just never came up because it wasn't ever relevant.
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Jul 14, 2018 15:21
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She didn't bring it up until after all the books had come out, and she had been criticized for them not being very inclusive. If she'd mentioned it after, like, the third book came out and it just never ended up mattering in the context of the story, it would've been another thing.
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Jul 29, 2018 22:26
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prefect posted:That seems like a crazy overstatement of Bojack's importance. He was there for parts of her life, but he didn't get her into acting or singing or hanging out with lemurs. He also didn't make her mom marry a heavily implied child molester. Bojack was a toxic influence in her life, but far from the only one.
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Jul 30, 2018 15:19
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I'm really not sure how I feel about this season. I think it was the strongest so far in terms of individual episodes; each one is amazing and there isn't a single episode that I was wasted, but it also was by far the weakest in terms of character arcs. It kind of felt like everyone was just treading water rather than growing, and it mostly made me think less of each character other than Todd and, ironically, Bojack. The whole "Philbert is Bojack" moral was way too on the nose, and Diane explicitly complaining how making Philbert damaged and human only made people empathize with him all the more felt really weird and out of place. I think him relapsing and being lovely both made sense for his character arc, but it ended up taking up way too much screentime and is part of what made everyone else feel neglected. The final episode where he's basically begging for someone to hold him accountable for his actions also reframed a lot of the lovely things he did and said in the rest of the season and ultimately ended up making me feel more sorry than angry. I really hope season 6 actually shows Bojack getting a little better, because I think he deserves it at this point. Diane didn't really go anywhere or do anything. I'm with the goon hivemind on this one, and anything I could say about her this season has already been said better by someone else. I really want Princess Carolyn to be happy and start a family, but there was not a single scene this season that set her up as being ready to be a single mother. "Hopefully things will calm down once I get the baby" made me physically recoil, and her getting to adopt at the end did not feel like a happy ending. I get why they reintroduced Ralph, but I never really cared about him one way or the other, and having him around mostly served to highlight the complete absence of Judah. I think Judah is gone for good and that makes me sad.  Mister Peanutbutter just felt kind of off outside of the flashback episode. I think he tends to nail the balance between being a people pleaser who is super inconsiderate but a decent guy at heart, and maybe he needs a Diane to bounce off of. His constant jabs at Diane being his fun-hating ex-wife and the one-two punch of trying to get her to break the story of his cheating and then proposing to Pickles instead of talking to her were really overtly lovely in a way that didn't feel like Mr. PB. Also I don't like Pickles. Todd continues to be the only healthy adult on the show, and he keeps growing at his own pace without tearing down the people around him. I liked his wacky hijinks better than the clown dentist business last season, I liked his roommate dynamic with Princess Carolyn, and the Lenny scene at the end was loving amazing. Todd is good and I want for him to be happy. E: I feel like this post came off a bit bitchy and TVIV-ey. This show is still amazing and I love it, and I'd probably on the whole rank this season below 2 and 4, but above 3 and 1. Free Churro was amazing and made me realize around 1 AM that I was going to binge the entire season and not begrudge it for loving up my sleep cycle all weekend. Pakled posted:Neo Yokio (Ditto) Neo Yokio is goddamn magical in a way I don't understand. I want to say it draws from the same well as The Room, where it's so terrible that it loops back around to being entertainment, but that doesn't do it justice. It's only six 20-minute episodes and I think anyone who appreciates adult animation owes it to themselves to watch it. Zulily Zoetrope fucked around with this message at 12:21 on Sep 17, 2018 |
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Sep 17, 2018 10:45
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Straight White Shark posted:...because Todd made lighthearted (but still catastrophic) missteps instead? Todd makes farcical missteps in his personal and business life, but handles his relationships with sense and maturity. His dispute with Princess Carolyn lasted one episode, and he was honest and open with both Yolanda and Emily.
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Sep 17, 2018 16:14
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That's fair. I remember thinking "yeah okay, now get to the rest of the episode" a couple minutes in, but I was hooked by the time I realized there wasn't going to be anything else. I don't know how new it was, but Bojack had some poignant insights about how life isn't a TV show ruled by grand gestures and an immutable status quo, and it made me realize he still views his own life that way. It contextualized his later issues with Gina and to a degree Diane. Also the string cheese gag is my favorite end-of-episode joke by a long shot. It was real solid.
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Sep 17, 2018 20:11
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Peanutbutter and Jelly sandwiches are named after an 80's sitcom star and a Youtuber he met while filming a reality show.
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Sep 18, 2018 11:40
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It also has Steve Buscemi as a villain and Jude Law as the robot butler, of all people. The cast is nothing short of eclectic.
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Sep 18, 2018 22:49
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For all his faults in his personal relationships, Bojack's the only character outside of Diane who's been consistently decent about women's issues in Hollywoo. He was the one who stuck by Diane until the end in Hank After Dark, and he was the one who wrestled with Flip about Philbert until Diane was brought into the writing room. Bojack the Feminist and Head in the Clouds kind of felt like they were overcorrecting because the show had made Bojack too sympathetic up until now.
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Sep 19, 2018 11:26
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I think Season 1 turned out good entirely because of Diane’s writing and the acting of Bojack, Gina and Mister Peanutbutter. I’m not sure what the message of that is supposed to be, though, since none of them had ever had any main ticket drama roles and Diane has never written a TV show before. The snips we got from Season 2 were clearly a much worse show without Diane to reel Flip’s writing in. I’m also not sure how much of a role Princess Carolyn had as a producer, but she’s probably the reason the show had solid production values outside of the script itself. I guess the main cast is just so competent they can turn literally anything into high-ratings prestige TV? Or, conversely, prestige TV is an overrated concept and basically anyone can pull it off? Zulily Zoetrope fucked around with this message at 17:28 on Sep 19, 2018 |
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Sep 19, 2018 17:26
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Pick posted:Birthday Dad sounds like more fun to watch than Philbert. Maybe it can be like Boss Baby and turn out weirdly entertaining. Birthday Dad is bound to end up directed by someone like Guillermo del Toro or Christopher Nolan and turn into a super high concept art movie or at least a blockbuster action movie. What else could it be?
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Sep 20, 2018 08:44
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They did one for The Bojack Horseman Show in season 3 and one about Mister Peanutbutter's House in S4, but I think this is the first season they've done instrumental variations on it.
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Sep 20, 2018 12:28
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I might have hated Bojack this season if not for the overt messaging that you should hate Bojack, but at this point I just pity him and hope Season 6 focuses on his actual rehabilitation and has him start mending fences. Especially if it's going to be the last season, because I'd rather have the show end with Bojack on the path to believable recovery than his tragic suicide or irreversible fall from grace.
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Sep 20, 2018 15:22
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