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Kaboom Dragoon
May 7, 2010

The greatest of feasts

This should be good. DDS1&2 is/are probably my favourite SMT game(s). At the very least, they boast one of my favourite OSTs around. Can't wait to see how folks unfamiliar with the games deal with some of the plot twists and revelations.

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Kaboom Dragoon
May 7, 2010

The greatest of feasts

The game's actually very clever with its representations of Buddhist mythology if you know what to look for. The Megaten series has always been good about its lore, but this game is definitely a step above.

Kaboom Dragoon
May 7, 2010

The greatest of feasts

CmdrKing posted:

I figure people are too busy bashing other poo poo to hate on SMT nowadays. I mean, the NEXT SMT-affilited game gave you the literal, no bullshit ability to shoot yourself in the head and summon Satan, so if that didn't get any attention nothing DDS could do would make waves.

I remember joking when Persona 2 first came out that if anyone past RPG fans had paid any attention to the game, it would be on every news channel across America. There's barely a single game in the franchise as a whole that doesn't include murder, devil worship/summoning, Satan...

Kaboom Dragoon
May 7, 2010

The greatest of feasts

I actually did get everyone's Mantra grid maxed out when I first played this, along with getting everyone to lvl99 and maxing out their stats. Granted, it was in bursts while waiting for DDS2 to come out, and I did it while watching DVDs in the background, but still. The only thing I didn't do was the final optional boss - I'm mad, but I'm not crazy.

I'm replaying the games since they came out on PSN over here last month. I don't see me doing any of that again.

Kaboom Dragoon
May 7, 2010

The greatest of feasts

DDS doesn't go with alignments, so no, aside from the occasional plot-mandated split, our party will be with us til the end.

Kaboom Dragoon
May 7, 2010

The greatest of feasts

HiKaizer posted:

DDS is also slightly unconventional with its portrayal and resolution of alignment conflicts so sit back and enjoy. It will definitely surprise you later on.

Edit: Dragonatrix are you sure the EU version used Danger? I played the PAL version and I am sure that it used Pray instead.

The EU PSN version uses Danger for some weird reason. Confused the hell out of me.

TKMobile posted:

So wait, can random mooks band together and call themselves a new tribe? Do they need to conquer a piece of territory first, or...how exactly does that work if it's not spoilerage?

This actually comes up later on, but, y'know, spoilers.

Kaboom Dragoon
May 7, 2010

The greatest of feasts

blankd posted:

Oh boy an LP of this game! I really enjoyed this series and I remember it being what got me into SMT. That being said I didn't really do any of the extra/bonus stuff because I was lazy and I didn't get most of the end-tier mantras since they really weren't needed (and because money grinding is something I'd rather not do). So it'll be interesting to see what I missed and the little trivia about some of the details.

Also I figure this is sorta related, there is apparently a novel series that was written by Yu Godai who apparently(?) did the initial draft before someone at Atlus had to take over due to his health.

I have no idea of their quality or what volume 1 covers, but it could be of interest to people who have already played the games simply to see what's different. (It is also probably filled with spoilers.)

I just started reading the book yesterday. If anyone's interested, I could put up a few comparisons. For starters, the rain in the Junkyard is supposedly a silvery metallic substance, described as being like mercury. The suits they wear are designed for combat and have such nifty features as internal temperature control. The Embryon apparently only boasts about 50 members total, with our five main characters forming the bulk of the tribe's fighting force. Funnily, for the first dozen or so pages, we're only told that Serph says things to other people. He doesn't actually speak til after his initial transformation, making you think that the book's going the silent protagonist route too. There's a few bits and pieces of worldbuilding, such as the existence of combat implants and weaponised prosthetics, but other than that, it's close to the intro, with a few expansions here and there.

Kaboom Dragoon
May 7, 2010

The greatest of feasts

So, who wants to learn more about the Junkyard?

Quantum Devil Saga: Chapter 2(pt.1)

Each chapter from this point is pretty lengthy (six chapters over 218 pages), so I'll break them up for these little recap things. We start off with the Embryon retreating from the weirdness back at that egg/cocoon/plant-thing with the girl (who we'll later find out is named Sera). The chapter is, again, a major expansion on the events we see in-game.

First and foremost, there's an explanation of how tribes are founded: whenever people die in the Junkyard, we're told their bodies turn into the silvery rain that falls from the sky. Eventually, they are reborn and come stumbling out from the Karma Temple alone. At this point, they can either find their way to the nearest tribe and join up, or band together and try to take over another tribe's territory. This is essentially how Serph and co. took over their current base, killing the leader of the tribe there, then going to the Karma Temple to petition them to be allowed to form their own tribe. Interestingly, Gale wasn't part of Serph's crew to begin with, having been part of the defeated tribe. Once their leader died, he called a ceasefire and pledged his loyalty to Serph, as per the rules of the Junkyard. Most of the team has 'awakened' at this point and is struggling with new ideas and emotions, but strangely, Cielo seems to have woken up as well, something that, spoiler alert, doesn't happen for a while. Gale, of course, doesn't comprehend, so he's concentrating on his duties.

Speaking of Gale, he has a lot going on, as the text repeatedly refers to him as the 'bishop'. At first, I thought this was just a reference to how stoic and aloof he was, but no, it's actually a tribal rank of sorts. Bishops are the tactical heads of each tribe. They're stuffed full of implants that allow them to record events and play them back (at one point, Gale plugs a cable into his head behind his ear and allows the team to see his perspective on the events at the start of the game), as well as analyse and process the best possible outcome for every event. His hood isn't just for show either, as it's loaded with surveillance gear that feeds into his ocular implants (basically an internal version of the eyepiece Serph and Argilla use in the intro).

Finally, it's been mentioned in the thread once or twice, that each tribe seems to be loaded with identical minion enemies: turns out that, again, this is a thing. Gale mentions that he's had each member of the Embryon report as to whether or not they have a brand after the events at Ground Zero. While the main characters all have unique marks, the rank and file have 7-8 different marks between them.

The plot is, as expected, exactly the same as the game, so I'll probably only point out the interesting stuff like this as I go along. The book covers up to about maybe a third or so of the way through the game, so I'll space them out for a while, especially as I have no idea when the next volume in the series will be out.

Kaboom Dragoon
May 7, 2010

The greatest of feasts

Feinne posted:

Without spoiling things that story does make Gale's presence make MUCH more sense.

There's a few bits and pieces that are heavily foreshadowing future events, but for the sake of the LP, I've left them out. If you've played the game though, they'll leap out at you from a mile off.

Kaboom Dragoon
May 7, 2010

The greatest of feasts

W.T. Fits posted:

Pretty much. Bat is basically Starscream. Except he actually succeeded in screwing over his leader, and he's nowhere near as fun to watch make an rear end of himself.

Much more satisfying to beat senseless though. I could never get tired of beating his smug face in.

It's interesting to note just how much of the conflict in this game is set up because of that one small moment of mercy back at the start.

Night10194 posted:

Hunt-Comrades is loving awesome.

The music in both these games is superb, but this is definitely one of the standout tracks. Meguro was definitely on top of his game when he scored these two.

Kaboom Dragoon
May 7, 2010

The greatest of feasts

Glazius posted:

Heat does kind of have a point. You can't just leave that lying around.

The rules explicitly state that the strong devour the weak to get stronger. What he's basically saying is 'if we don't consume her, someone else will, and then we'll be turbo-screwed'. Yeah, he's an rear end about it, but he's not really in the wrong.

Besides, that's how you get ants.

Kaboom Dragoon
May 7, 2010

The greatest of feasts

Another useful tidbit that isn't hinted at, is that anyone who leaves the party will come back with their current mantra fully learned. If you know its coming up, you can blow all your cash on the most expensive mantra available to them, and have them come back with it learned for no effort at all. Comes in useful later on down the line, but the catch is, you have to know it's coming, and you'll get advance warning of it maybe once in the game.


David D. Davidson posted:

You have to admit there is some nice horse power on the Ford Cielo. It can go from zero to Jamaican in just three seconds.

Hermes Conrad joined the party!

Blaze Dragon posted:


Do I have this right to this point? The game hasn't really explained much, so I'm not totally sure.

Rest assured that the game will explain everything in due course. And I do mean everything.

Kaboom Dragoon
May 7, 2010

The greatest of feasts

Feinne posted:

Though by 'the game' that's just Digital Devil Saga as a whole. There's a lot of poo poo from this game that won't really start making sense until DDS2.

Yeah, it's easy to forget this is two separate games we're talking about here. I think most fans of the series just class them as one game.

Kaboom Dragoon
May 7, 2010

The greatest of feasts

Feinne posted:

Yeah, Coordinate 136 is just one of many areas you'll want to re-read the update for once we're close to the end of DDS2 and you understand what the gently caress any of this stuff means.

To put it another way, when we get to the end of DD2, reread the entire DDS1 part, so it all finally starts making sense.

That's not a joke.

Kaboom Dragoon
May 7, 2010

The greatest of feasts

I believe the first book finishes either at the start or end of 136, so that gives you an idea of how much it covers. I'll have an update on it in the next couple of days if people are still digging them.

Kaboom Dragoon
May 7, 2010

The greatest of feasts

Mraagvpeine posted:

Are we suppose to answer that question?

Yes.

With your blood.

Kaboom Dragoon
May 7, 2010

The greatest of feasts

Arcade Rabbit posted:

Can't we all just gush about Mary Elizabeth McGlynn being loving awesome instead? Holy poo poo I have never heard her in a bad role, she is so great :allears:

Strangely, I think my favourite role of hers is Dr. Angelicus in Baroque. All her lines have a kind of tone like she's begging the main character (and by extension, the player) to understand her.

Baroque's also a great companion to DDS, in some ways - great soundtrack, bleak atmosphere, compelling, if confusing story, and you have to eat parts of your enemies to survive and augment yourself.

Kaboom Dragoon
May 7, 2010

The greatest of feasts

Dragonatrix posted:

On a non-FFXI note, both Digital Devil Saga games are on sale on EU PSN for a whole €3 each. That's a goddamn steal and if you're reading this and don't have them yet, this is the best time to fix that.

....what im saying is please fix that you wont regret it

Dont know about US though sorry!

Atlus games are on sale every other month in the US, so gently caress you guys.

Kaboom Dragoon
May 7, 2010

The greatest of feasts

I'm the same on both counts. Throw on a Disgaea game, put on some DVDs and grind the day away. Never stuck with an MMO more than 6 months though. Only game to manage that was WoW, and that was because I found I was having more fun playing the auction house than the game itself.

Kaboom Dragoon
May 7, 2010

The greatest of feasts

Blind Sally posted:

While I wasn't a fan of every single track, I do think the two DDS games have one of the strongest SMT OSTs. (lots of acronyms)

100% in agreement. I'd been listening to the DDS1&2 OSTs long before they were released in Europe and Battle For Survival had long become one of my favourite tracks. Finding out it was the regular battle theme gave me the biggest smile.

Kaboom Dragoon
May 7, 2010

The greatest of feasts

Speedball posted:

Although some of the boss fights in SMTIV were also against humans who ate a "red pill" that transformed them into demons. Think the most memorable was some nameless guy eating a pill and transforming into a female Dullahan and attacking you...in a misunderstanding.

I remember selling a (semi-reluctant) friend on SMTIV not long after it came out in Europe. It wasn't long before I got a call one night with him telling me that he met a hobo who took drugs and turned into a sexy headless demon chick and what the gently caress have I gotten him into?

If you want to send him off into a rant, ask him about 'the sexy demon game'. By all accounts, Medusa should not be that hot.

Kaboom Dragoon
May 7, 2010

The greatest of feasts

Lunar Suite posted:

Were they referrign to the protagonists, or just the information the traitor gave to the Lokapala? Like that EM program Roland got.

In DDS2, data is everything.


Worklurker posted:

This is, personally for me, the worst part of the game. I hope it doesn't take you too many tries.

Surprisingly, I didn't have too much problem with the upcoming section. One guy I knew at the time just ragequit once he got here though. I think the combination of the challenge and the music just pushed him over the edge.

Kaboom Dragoon
May 7, 2010

The greatest of feasts

Petiso posted:

Upon replaying the game, I found the Tribvhana a bit weird, as if they originally had a bigger role that was stripped out, I'll go back to this later.

I had a feeling, but they also work nicely as a commentary on the typical Quirky Miniboss Squad.

Kaboom Dragoon
May 7, 2010

The greatest of feasts

YggiDee posted:

To be fair, from a real-world perspective the sun doesn't generally turn people to stone :v:

Well it turns me into bacon, so...

Kaboom Dragoon
May 7, 2010

The greatest of feasts

Just remember, no matter what happens: this is the most unambiguously upbeat game/series in the entire SMT franchise.

Kaboom Dragoon
May 7, 2010

The greatest of feasts

Rigged Death Trap posted:

Apart from the Persona games.

Persona 4, maybe. The others tend to be bittersweet at best. But even then, this kinda outdoes it by the end. I won't be able to explain until then, but I will, if I remember.

Clarste posted:

Persona 4 Dancing All Night?

:frogout:

Kaboom Dragoon
May 7, 2010

The greatest of feasts

ultrafilter posted:

Is the end of the game just "everyone dies"?

I think it's fair to say that this is the Embryon's Darkest Hour.

Kaboom Dragoon
May 7, 2010

The greatest of feasts

Split a piece of wood, lift a rock, and there, you will find a god worth killing.

Kaboom Dragoon
May 7, 2010

The greatest of feasts

Then Roland shows up with a paper cup on a pencil with a face scribbled on it named 'Colonel Beck' and everyone just frowns hard at him.

Kaboom Dragoon
May 7, 2010

The greatest of feasts

Tallgeese :frogout:

Kaboom Dragoon
May 7, 2010

The greatest of feasts

Okay, so to clarify a few things for people:

Serph (original name Serph Sheffield) was originally a scientist with zero concern for the welfare of his experiments working for the Karma Society to contact 'God'.
Heat (O'Brien) realised that the tests they were performing were, in a word, inhuman, and made no secret of this to Serph.
Argilla (real name unknown) was manipulated by Serph to spy on Heat. Her murder of him was accidental, but it's believed by fans that he pretty much brainwashed her into becoming his devotee.

The Embryon were based on her perceptions of the folks she knew during testing. Serph was always kind to her, so 'our' Serph was a decent person. Heat always acted like a scary rear end in a top hat, so our Heat became a psychopath by accident. Argilla was nice and had a gun, which is arguably why she became the team sniper.

You'll notice, however, there's something of a lack of Gale, or anyone who looks like him in that cutscene. Wonder what that's all about.

Kaboom Dragoon fucked around with this message at 03:47 on Mar 2, 2015

Kaboom Dragoon
May 7, 2010

The greatest of feasts

ultrafilter posted:

It would be absolutely hilarious if Cielo were to defeat God by throwing the cat at its face.
No, you're thinking of the first Ridou Kuzunoha game.

Einander posted:

IIRC, you're wrong about Cielo never coming up, so you should remove that in case the OP remembers to talk to the right person about it.
Really? I've played through both games a couple of times and I've honestly never seen it. I'll edit it for the time being.


a cartoon duck posted:

I was always under the impression that the Embryon were unique in that instead of just being a real person's data getting stuck in the junkyard like everybody else in there, they were combinations between real people and Sera's AI versions of them.
Let's just say 'it's complicated' and leave it at that for now.

Kaboom Dragoon
May 7, 2010

The greatest of feasts

Mraagvpeine posted:

Don't most people grind for the expensive mantras on new game+?

I never got them in the second, but in the first game, I ground out everyone's Mantras and got everyone to level 99. Then again, we had a wait for the second game in the UK, so it was basically killing time.

Kaboom Dragoon
May 7, 2010

The greatest of feasts

Feinne posted:

The sun is actually where the universe keeps its strategic reserve of amazing boss music, including the best opening seconds to a boss track in all of video gaming.

You mean Divine Identity? Because that's one of the best pieces of music across the entire franchise to boot.

Kaboom Dragoon
May 7, 2010

The greatest of feasts

IMAGINE was the worst, most grindiest MMO I've ever played, but drat, if it didn't have one of the sweetest soundtracks in the series. Your version of the Seth battle theme is different to the one I have though, which is odd.

Kaboom Dragoon
May 7, 2010

The greatest of feasts

Razorwind posted:

so, judeo christian God is an angry face, Hindu God is a space train with multiple faces?

I do like these games, even with the slightly weak ending, but yeah, no idea there was so much spin-off/supplementary material.

great LP man, one/two more SMT games down. What's even left of them to LP now?

SMT2 could probably use another pass, since the one in the archives is going on 8 years old now (started 2007, apparently) and the screenshots are pretty small. Megami Tensei I&II received a translation last year, and I think a couple of the Last Bible games have been hacked. I don't think anyone's done Soul Hackers yet either, but 3DS games are a pain and a half to record. Other than that, it's mostly stuff that's not been translated into English at all.

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Kaboom Dragoon
May 7, 2010

The greatest of feasts

I thought one of them had succeeded, or at least come pretty close to it. You'd need to do at least, what, 4-5 playthroughs of the game though, not to mention the additional content in the 3DS version. And both that and SMTIV (which I'm ashamed to admit I forgot) fall into the same trap of being on the 3DS. So unless someone with more time and money than sense comes along, I don't see them being done around here for a while.

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