|
Did the Greeks also have the basic concept that a lot of wrath was basically automatic? As in, sort of a function of the (un)natural world? There's a passage in the old testament where they're bearing the Ark of the Covenant in to set it up in place of honor and one of the bearers accidentally touches it when he tries to stop it falling over, and coming into contact with the sacred (divine) when he was profane (earthly) just instantly, straight up kills him without any kind of fanfare. David gets pissed and complains to Yahweh, and shoves the Ark in a random noble's house to keep for a time, but Yahweh just tells him that's what happens when the pitcher hits the rock, basically; no moral judgment, no-one's fault, just a function of the profane contacts the sacred directly. Did that kind of thing happen a lot in Greek Myth, too? I'm always curious about the parallels.
|
#
?
Sep 12, 2014 23:15
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 23, 2024 16:47 |
|
|
Night10194 posted:Did the Greeks also have the basic concept that a lot of wrath was basically automatic? As in, sort of a function of the (un)natural world? There's a passage in the old testament where they're bearing the Ark of the Covenant in to set it up in place of honor and one of the bearers accidentally touches it when he tries to stop it falling over, and coming into contact with the sacred (divine) when he was profane (earthly) just instantly, straight up kills him without any kind of fanfare. David gets pissed and complains to Yahweh, and shoves the Ark in a random noble's house to keep for a time, but Yahweh just tells him that's what happens when the pitcher hits the rock, basically; no moral judgment, no-one's fault, just a function of the profane contacts the sacred directly. Did that kind of thing happen a lot in Greek Myth, too? I'm always curious about the parallels. There was a time when Zeus took a mortal lover and told her that she could have any one wish that she desired. Her wish was to see Zeus in his true form, in all his divine glory. Zeus asked her, "Are you absolutely sure about that? It's not the best idea..." but she insisted. With a sigh, Zeus fulfilled her request and revealed to her his true form. She was thus incinerated instantly, and so ends the story.
|
|
#
?
Sep 12, 2014 23:20
|
|
|
Bobbin Threadbare posted:My favorite book of the Old Testament is Job. Job's story takes up the first couple chapters, and then all the rest of it is a long philosophical discussion between Job and his friends as to why all the terrible things in the world happened to him. His friends figure, "Well, you must have done something to piss God off, why else would all this happen?" Job's response is, "I didn't do a drat thing, I was a good Jew, I made all my sacrifices, I observed the Sabbath, I did everything right. poo poo just happens sometimes." Job also did more than make all his own sacrifices; he actually sacrificed and prayed extra to try to protect his children in case they accidentally sinned (that went really well for them when they became collateral in the divine experiment to discover if disinterested piety exists, considering they all died horribly and instantly). He is, in every way, shown to be the exemplar of all that should be considered moral in his society and his exceptional wealth and success would have been considered entirely reasonable by the likely audience. I'd recommend, if you're interested in Job, Carol Newsom's Job: A Contest of Moral Imaginations; she does excellent work and it was one of the key sources in my master's thesis on the topic. She makes the excellent point about the contrast between how Job appears in the beginning, which is written in the style of a fairy tale or normal moral parable and where he must be the Moral Exemplar, and how he acts much different the second you get to the dialogue. She, and other commentators, have also made the important observation that Job's friends are proven wrong, yes, but they're meant to be taken seriously; as far as they know they're not wrong at all until God resolves the conflict. Job, too, doesn't know he's in the right and sure as hell doesn't accept his suffering meekly. As the story goes he becomes more and more certain (through contesting with his friends) that he's got a legal claim to having been mistreated by God, and that could he simply speak to Yahweh about the matter, he might be able to succeed in pressing said claim. It doesn't go that way! It doesn't go that way at all. When he comes up against Yahweh with his claim that the universe isn't behaving properly God basically begins a long boast about the amazing Chaos Demons and horrible beasts (which humans can't possibly defeat) that he defeats and asks Job if, seeing as he thinks he knows how the universe should be functioning, he was there when it all started like God was. I personally read Job's meek withdrawal after this tirade as more defeated and hopeless than dutiful; God asked him if he had an 'arm like El' and it turns out he really doesn't. He then proceeds to confirm for Job that Job was right in the earlier argument anyway, and as you pointed out, grants him his material wealth and new family members back; but what's really interesting is not only did Job never actually ask for that, he specifically denies it when he's talking to his friends. What he wanted was an answer, and while my thesis was that he receives more of one than it first appears through what can be inferred from his point of view of God's resolution of the conflict and the theophany in general, he never actually receives the answer he was seeking directly, supposedly because it is beyond him. I could say so much more but I've already written too much; sorry, I spent a year of my life reading about a ton of this stuff and writing a master's thesis on it, so it just kinda leaps out unbidden whenever anyone mentions the Book of Job.
|
|
#
?
Sep 12, 2014 23:28
|
|
|
^^^ S'up, fellow Job study-buddy!  Yeah, some really good literature regarding Job out there, but I think my favorite is the play J.B. by Archibald MacLeish, which is a modern retelling and also involves concepts like wealth, capitalism vs. socialism, and other great stuff like that. Really beautiful language too.dotchan posted:On the other hand, it's presumptuous to think that the ancients were automatically philosophically, scientifically, and socially "backwards" simply because they existed so long ago; the base instincts of humanity has existed alongside with the higher ones since as long as people have walked the earth, and the stories that our ancestors left behind reflect that. I... didn't mean to suggest they were? I was merely expounding on the way they might have seen the world back then, from what we know about the state of that place; I didn't mean to suggest that the civilization of the Greeks (or any other civilization at this time) was at all "backward." Quite the opposite, they were astounding, and make one wonder about all the civilizations we don't know about that might have sprung up in the millions of years between when modern humanity evolved and known history. Also, Bobbin: I share your interest in the story of Job, but there's a crucial step you're missing. Yeah, God does take Job's "comforters" to task, but not before doing some cosmic bullying to poor Job first, with some of the finest "God is Awesome" language in the whole drat bible (way better than that lame fake Biblical verse poo poo in Pulp Fiction): The Big G.O.D. posted:Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge? He continues on like that, until Job cries Uncle, pretty much, throws himself on the ground and says "I'm not worthy! I don't know any of that! Oh, please don't kill me!" Then comes God playing nice and admonishing all the other jerks, and giving Job back his fortune. Don't get me wrong: Job is one of (if not THE) best written books of the bible, in language and arc as well as in essential message, that you shouldn't blame people for bad stuff happening and help them through tragedy. But you also can't forget that the whole thing happened because God made a bet with Satan that Job wouldn't break his faith, no matter what happened to him. Poor Job only suffers because of the whims of higher beings, and when he asks god why, the answer is still, in so many words, "Because gently caress you." Old Testament God may be awesome, but he's also a real jerk. Much like the Greek gods! 
resurgam40 fucked around with this message at 00:02 on Sep 13, 2014 |
|
#
?
Sep 12, 2014 23:55
|
|
|
Bobbin Threadbare posted:My favorite book of the Old Testament is Job. Job's story takes up the first couple chapters, and then all the rest of it is a long philosophical discussion between Job and his friends as to why all the terrible things in the world happened to him. His friends figure, "Well, you must have done something to piss God off, why else would all this happen?" Job's response is, "I didn't do a drat thing, I was a good Jew, I made all my sacrifices, I observed the Sabbath, I did everything right. poo poo just happens sometimes." That book I recall was covered by the old Goon Bible Project.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2014 00:06
|
|
|
Cooked Auto posted:That book I recall was covered by the old Goon Bible Project. One objection is that Satan is not God's enemy in the book of Job. Satan is God's courtier and something like his prosecuting attorney. Note that God initiates the encounter, too; asking his prosecuting attorney to consider a guy and then devising a trial to see if he's really righteous. God is responsible for what happens in Job. Satan is merely his servant. Basically, Job was written before Satan had been repurposed by popular mythology into a king of evil figure, and portrays Satan in his original role.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2014 00:12
|
|
|
While I admit I dabbled in Early Christian Theology, this is all beyond my ken. This is a fascinating derail and I demand that it continue.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2014 01:15
|
|
|
I'm not sure kalonZombie can fit the entire thread into the "posts of interest" post.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2014 01:53
|
|
|
Nihilarian posted:I'm not sure kalonZombie can fit the entire thread into the "posts of interest" post. I can drat well try.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2014 02:57
|
|
|
Bobbin Threadbare posted:There was a time when Zeus took a mortal lover and told her that she could have any one wish that she desired. Her wish was to see Zeus in his true form, in all his divine glory. Zeus asked her, "Are you absolutely sure about that? It's not the best idea..." but she insisted. With a sigh, Zeus fulfilled her request and revealed to her his true form. She was thus incinerated instantly, and so ends the story.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2014 03:24
|
|
|
achillesforever6 posted:Well not truly the end, he did have to put the baby that was in her into his thigh until it was ready to be born. Ah, right! That was Dionysus, right?
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2014 03:33
|
|
|
The thigh. Where else would you store the unborn child of the woman you just incinerated? Of course it's the thigh!
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2014 05:16
|
|
|
Pvt.Scott posted:The thigh. Where else would you store the unborn child of the woman you just incinerated? Of course it's the thigh!
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2014 05:46
|
|
|
Zeus can put his kids wherever the hell he wants, he's a God. I remember the Contendings of Horus and Set, where the two of them basically try to impregnate one another to shame each other by hiding it in the other's salad and stuff like that, because Gods can impregnate whatever they drat well please, being so powerful. The Contendings of Horus and Set are pretty weird. Egyptian mythology is also awesome and weird.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2014 06:22
|
|
|
Night10194 posted:Zeus can put his kids wherever the hell he wants, he's a God. I remember the Contendings of Horus and Set, where the two of them basically try to impregnate one another to shame each other by hiding it in the other's salad and stuff like that, because Gods can impregnate whatever they drat well please, being so powerful. TIL the Egyptian pantheon is basically an extended episode of It's Always Sunny In Philadelphia.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2014 06:48
|
|
|
Night10194 posted:It doesn't go that way! It doesn't go that way at all. When he comes up against Yahweh with his claim that the universe isn't behaving properly God basically begins a long boast about the amazing Chaos Demons and horrible beasts (which humans can't possibly defeat) that he defeats and asks Job if, seeing as he thinks he knows how the universe should be functioning, he was there when it all started like God was. I personally read Job's meek withdrawal after this tirade as more defeated and hopeless than dutiful; God asked him if he had an 'arm like El' and it turns out he really doesn't. I for some reason imagine this as God cutting a wrestling promo on Job. Even "Arm like El" sounds like "24-inch pythons".
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2014 20:02
|
|
|
Quiet Python posted:I for some reason imagine this as God cutting a wrestling promo on Job. Even "Arm like El" sounds like "24-inch pythons". This is basically how it sounds if you read it aloud, yes.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2014 20:40
|
|
|
So that's where the wrestling lingo "jobber" came from!
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2014 23:53
|
|
|
Saul/Paul is the original heel/face turn.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2014 23:59
|
|
|
So you just straight-up can't block the Cyclops attacks, or does it just reduce the damage instead of block the attack?
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2014 07:18
|
|
|
It's just a binary, either you can block an attack and take no damage, or it will go right through your block.
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2014 08:08
|
|
|
Someone asked a while ago if Kratos might think about something, and the basic answer is that God of War is a story about Kratos continuously refusing to learn a goddamn thing. Which makes it kinda funny that everyone else ripped off its use of QTEs without at least making them really stylish and (mostly) optional.
|
|
#
?
Sep 15, 2014 00:48
|
|
|
Wasn't there a GoW clone that ramped up the QTEs on harder difficulties, to the point that the required button mashing was physically impossible for 9/10 players?
|
|
#
?
Sep 15, 2014 02:57
|
|
|
Kaboom Dragoon posted:Wasn't there a GoW clone that ramped up the QTEs on harder difficulties, to the point that the required button mashing was physically impossible for 9/10 players? Sounds like something Dante's Inferno would do, but I never played DI on anything easier than Hard, so I wouldn't know.
|
|
#
?
Sep 16, 2014 03:13
|
|
|
Sorry to double post, but this is important: The update today won't be going up, and there will be a (hopefully) very short hiatus going on. Basically what goes on is my current recording rig is my brother's laptop. Since he goes to school and laptops aren't great for their encoding speeds, this makes doing the LP kind of a hassle. Especially since this current episode seems to have the mummy's curse set upon it and won't encode properly for love nor money, so while it SHOULD be ready to go, it ISN'T due to that. I should have a new PC in a few days hopefully, but until then I'm not going to hassle my brother anymore with all this drat encoding and such. Hopefully next week we'll have an episode. In the meantime, the thread will stay open so you all can still discuss mythology and whatnot.
|
|
#
?
Sep 16, 2014 20:35
|
|
|
I can't wait for the second game. The music is terrific. If you have any of the hoody-hoo special collector's edition releases for the console, I think each one has a featurette about the musical score, and you should watch them. Apparently the low-note rhythm sections of the orchestra were allowed to go nuts for the soundtrack and play the kind of loud booming sounds they never get to play during symphonies.
|
|
#
?
Sep 24, 2014 16:03
|
|
|
Drachir D Nalem posted:It's a shame the videos are unavailable now, though. Makes them hard to re-watch. I know I'm a bit late to this party, but I still got the DI episodes saved on my disk. So if anyone can get a hold of the LPers and get their permission, I can reupload the episodes somewhere. On topic: Enjoying the LP and the talk. Never got into GoW, apart from Chains of Olympus (Hey, gotta justify buying that PSP somehow. Don't judge me  ), and it's been ages since I read greek myth, so I'm a bit rusty, but it's fun nontheless.
|
|
#
?
Sep 24, 2014 20:50
|
|
|
What I've learned from this thread about Greek myth is that you take the established characters, make up some crazy bullshit and then make sure somebody gets super-turbo-boned in the end. So pretty much fanfic with a mean streak.
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2014 02:55
|
|
|
anthrax posted:I know I'm a bit late to this party, but I still got the DI episodes saved on my disk. So if anyone can get a hold of the LPers and get their permission, I can reupload the episodes somewhere. Hrm? No they're still online, they're just online at their actual site scroll down to dante's inferno.
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2014 03:44
|
|
|
Kurieg posted:Hrm? No they're still online, they're just online at their actual site scroll down to dante's inferno. I thought we were talking about the LP that's archived. Didn't know it was the same guys. Nevermind then ^^
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2014 07:36
|
|
|
anthrax posted:I thought we were talking about the LP that's archived. Didn't know it was the same guys. Nevermind then ^^ Like many other Let's Plays on the LP Archive, Dante's inferno is also hosted on the Internet Archive, the link is just above the intruduction here.
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2014 07:52
|
|
|
Kaboom Dragoon posted:Wasn't there a GoW clone that ramped up the QTEs on harder difficulties, to the point that the required button mashing was physically impossible for 9/10 players? Heavenly Sword wasn't exactly a GoW clone, but I remember that it did have some really punishing QTEs.
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2014 17:24
|
|
|
anthrax posted:I thought we were talking about the LP that's archived. Didn't know it was the same guys. Nevermind then ^^ Those are two different groups. That link leads to LawrenceFriday's LP (with John Murdoch and tehwarsmith); the videos are gone from the original hosts but can be accessed from the Internet Archive, as Aumanor said. The one Kurieg linked was LoadingReadyRun's LP, which isn't on the SA Let's Play Archive at all.
|
|
#
?
Sep 25, 2014 22:57
|
|
|
I've never even heard of the second one. Not entirely sure who LoadingReadyRun is, either.
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2014 18:42
|
|
|
The hiatus will end on Tuesday. Sorry about that, folks! Still working on a dinky rear end laptop, but I hope to fix that soon.
|
|
#
?
Sep 26, 2014 23:49
|
|
|
Early update today because Episode 4: Minotaur ... Cut ... Polsy ... Uncut ... Polsy .jpg) Not only that, but Skippy and I riffed on an old Nintendo Power promo video.
|
|
#
?
Sep 30, 2014 20:52
|
|
|
The video is set to private, Kalon.
|
|
#
?
Sep 30, 2014 20:56
|
|
oh yes oh god yes form the head FORM THE HEAD unghhhh...
|
IronSaber posted:The video is set to private, Kalon. I clicked all three but I don't know why the uncut version didn't take. I noticed it before you said something though. It's good now.
|
|
#
?
Sep 30, 2014 20:58
|
|
|
I want to know who repaired those beams while you were making your way back upstairs.
|
|
#
?
Sep 30, 2014 22:17
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 23, 2024 16:47 |
|
|
Nihilarian posted:I want to know who repaired those beams while you were making your way back upstairs. Athens' carpenter's guild runs a tight ship.
|
|
#
?
Sep 30, 2014 22:18
|
|