|
Jerusalem posted:State of Decay was one of my favorites as a kid and I think it still holds up pretty well, even with the fairly crummy special effects. The special effects aren't too bad. The flight of the ship is ok up until it turns around (which looks horrifically unrealistic to people who have now seen modern special effects), and the hand of the great vampire is done ok. Apart from that there's not really much in the way of effects in the serial.
|
#
?
Sep 3, 2014 23:49
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 25, 2024 22:04 |
|
|
So, The Visitation What's this one then? The Doctor and pals face up against some marauding aliens at the time of the plague. Middle of the first series of Peter Davison, so second series of John Nathan-Turner. Script editor for this story and Four to Doomsday was Antony Root who, unlike his predecessor Bidmead or successor Saward, used Doctor Who as a stepping stone to bigger and brighter things and is now the head of HBO Europe. The story itself was written by Eric Saward and directed by our old friend Peter Moffatt, last seen directing State of Decay. The story itself is an idea that could fit well into the revival. Doctor lands in historical London, there are aliens there and they start to cause trouble in a way that fits in very well with established history. The story opens with a fantastic little vignette of a wealthy 17th century British family. The daughter sees a storm of lights and colours in the sky - actually an exploding alien ship - which is quickly gone before settling down to a game with her alcoholic father. They, together with her brother and their servant, are attacked by the final 5 survivors from the doomed spacecraft - four Terileptils (I am not ashamed to note that I added this to the MS Word dictionary as it's repeated a lot and it's not easy to spell) and their robot. There's some wonderful characterisation done here (which is useful because there's only two more characters introduced in the remaining three and three quarter episodes) and rather notably the 17th century family manage to shoot and kill one of the Terileptils before they are subdued by the android. This kind of thing doesn't happen very much, and helps to establish that the Terileptils didn't come into this deliberately but are making the best they can of a bad situation. We then cut to the TARDIS where the Doctor is probably at his most exasperated. Everyone is talking about the events of Kinda, Tegan wants to leave and he's supposed to be taking her back to Heathrow (he overshoots by a few hundred years), Adric is being Adric and Nyssa is gently prodding him about not being able to control or understand the other two. This exasperation grows throughout the story into barely controlled rage and he is generally at his most calm when confronting the Terileptil leader who actively wants to kill him and steal the TARDIS. They land and get chased around a bit by local types, scared of outsiders who might bring the Plague upon them, until they're rescued by a local highwayman/actor called Richard Mace. Thereafter Mace, Tegan, Adric and the Doctor get variously captured, mind controlled, released, captured again, put under threat of execution and captured. Nyssa heads back to the TARDIS, supposedly to create some kind of weapon (which is later used to destroy the android) but actually because nobody has any loving clue what to do with Nyssa. Sad to say but she actually shows more character in this story than usual, with Sarah Sutton throwing herself into it with much more style and grace than Matthew Waterhouse has with Adric. At least she's redeemed in Big Finish. The story itself doesn't have many twists and turns in it - there's very little that we actually learn in episodes two and three - but the running around is quite entertaining, as is Saward's pet character Mace. The setting is very characterful - akin to The Time Warrior - unlike the most recent story entire set in the Earth's past The Horror of Fang Rock. This story is also notable as the last appearance of the Sonic Screwdriver under John Nathan-Turner - that is, until the TV Movie or Rose - as it is destroyed by the Terileptil leader in episode three. "I feel as though you've just killed an old friend" announces the Doctor with a reading that implies that he would have much preferred if the Terileptil had killed Tegan or Adric. Production This is one of the rare examples of a script editor providing a story to the series before he was script editor. In many ways this script was Saward's audition - he got the job immediately, with Root merely a temporary replacement for Bidmead who departed after writing Castrovalva. This story was the second to be produced with Davison but was the fourth to be transmitted. This causes some minor issues at the start of the story where the cast have to react to the events of Kinda without actually knowing what they are. The visuals of this story are fantastic, combining the BBC's main strengths of costume dramas with lots of location work at actual 17th century buildings. Peter Moffatt's direction again is very good, with standout sequences being the opening vignette with the family and Tegan and Nyssa's discussion in the TARDIS. Special effects wise, the Terileptils' leader's mask is animatronic - a first for Doctor Who - allowing it to move while he's talking. The character of Richard Mace came from some radio plays Saward had previously done for the BBC, where Mace is a Victorian actor who gets involved in some strange and mysterious mysterious stragenesses. Here he's played by the comedy actor Michael Robbins, best known for appearing in the ITV non-comedy On the Buses for six series, who chews the scenery in the manner of someone who's been thrust into performing Hamlet at the RSC and knows they only have one shot at it so may as well give it both barrels. The Sonic Screwdriver being destroyed was in the initial script. Saward had planned to have the Doctor get a replacement at the end of the story but Nathan-Turner decided that enough was enough from this little writers' crutch and so killed it off permanently. There have been a few occasions in recent years when audiences have wished that Davies or Moffat had the same strength of feeling about it. The music is worth a mention largely because Moffatt hated it, although Paddy Kingsland - who also did State of Decay, The Hitch-Hikers Guide to the Galaxy and others - later said that Moffatt was one of the easiest directors to work with. The soundtrack itself is largely made up of random chords ("turgid chords" according to Moffatt) and sustained individual notes and shows none of the character of the music of State of Decay. It also gets played far too loudly all the time, not quite overpowering the actors but definitely in danger of becoming diegetic. The Visitation, possibly helped by a move to bi-weekly transmission on Mondays and Tuesdays rather than the traditional weekly Saturday slot, is one of the few Doctor Who serials that gained in viewers through the entire set of episodes. It finished up with 10.1 million viewers, a feat reached very seldom during Nathan-Turner's run (five in total, not including Dimensions in Time). What doesn't work so well? Matthew Waterhouse is terrible in this serial. Every single line is read with the same bored tone, with him being "happy" to see Nyssa alive a standout moment. Fortunately Adric isn't in the serial very much, with most of the running time being made up of the Doctor and Mace, so it doesn't drag it down too badly. Waterhouse also accidentally calls Tegan "The Tegan", so imagine I retroactively called her that throughout this post. The story itself is in danger of being a bit too simple. The Terileptils have an evil plan to kill off mankind, the Doctor stops them and causes Historical Event #8 (in this case the Great Fire of London, previously referred to in The Pyramids of Mars). All the rest of the story is running around but as it's fairly charming running around so we can let it off. There's a few warning signs that Eric Saward is going to disappear down the rabbit hole of internal continuity but nothing to egregious yet. Individual bits I like The family in the opening vignette is believable and well characterised despite only appearing on screen for a couple of minutes before all being killed. Putting that much effort into them "How many times have I told you Adric," says the Doctor flicking at the controls of the TARDIS. "Never..." he pauses and looks at the controls for a second before he works out what he was doing "Never interfere with things you don't understand." They get separated from the TARDIS, the Doctor runs over and says "This way!", then pausing when his companions run off and stops and looks around for a while. The Doctor bickers frequently with Tegan, most of which I could quote here but I'll restrict myself to the exchange "How do you feel now?" "Groggy, sore and bad tempered." "Almost your old self, then". The sequence where they have to escape from the locked room in episode four is good fun, although Davison blowing the smoke away from the pistol and announcing "I never miss" is a bit out of character. Still, second episode made and all that. Final words Eric Saward's first script for the programme and probably his best, certainly the one with the lowest body count. A fairly simple but enjoyable yarn with enough memorable scenes to make it feel like there was more going on than there actually was. Ranked 139th on the Doctor Who dynamic rankings website which is below a lot of tosh, including tosh from the same era of the show. Generally underrated, then. It's one of Peter Davison's three favourite stories so who are we to argue? MrL_JaKiri fucked around with this message at 00:28 on Sep 4, 2014 |
|
#
?
Sep 3, 2014 23:58
|
|
|
The Visitation never really sticks out in my mind (beyond frequently posting the Doctor angrily shoving Adric into the TARDIS), perhaps because it "suffers" from being a competently made story that doesn't have any one thing that stands out as particularly memorable. If it was exceptionally good or exceptionally bad it would probably stand out more in my mind, but as it is, it's the type of story where if somebody said,"Worth watching?" I'd say yes, but if somebody said,"Pick a story for me to watch" I'd never think of it.
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2014 00:20
|
|
|
The opening sequence is really good and worth remembering
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2014 00:22
|
|
|
I've finally decided to try watching Torchwood, and gosh, this would be almost good if John Barrowman as Captain Jack didn't feel like watching a sixteen year old in a school play. Eve Myles is really good! It's just...put her opposite Barrowman, and...
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2014 00:28
|
|
|
I reckon The Visitation would actually fit in quite nicely as a modern 45-minute episode. It's certainly got the "entertaining cobblers" spirit down pat.
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2014 01:01
|
|
|
The Visitation was the first Davison serial I ever saw and I still love it. Davison in general is fairly underrated.
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2014 01:17
|
|
|
Android Blues posted:I've finally decided to try watching Torchwood, and gosh, this would be almost good if John Barrowman as Captain Jack didn't feel like watching a sixteen year old in a school play. Eve Myles is really good! It's just...put her opposite Barrowman, and... Seriously? Most people say he's the best thing about Torchwood. I really liked all three seasons (I choose to ignore Miracle Day). Well, to each his/her own. I'll tell you what I tell everyone, though: If you don't want to watch all of Torchwood, at least watch Children of Earth. CoE is freaking brilliant, though very dark.
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2014 01:37
|
|
|
I enjoy "The Visitation" a lot. Like most of Saward's scripts it follows a particular formula, but the elements thereof are tweaked just enough - in a way I can't quite put my finger on - to make it distinctive compared to, say, "Earthshock" or "Revelation of the Daleks".
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2014 01:46
|
|
|
The Visitation is a solid story, B to B+ range for me. It's one I could show someone that captures the essence of the show without being cringeworthy or having the low budget/special effects overcome its charm. Mace is a standout for me, but it does show that a four-person TARDIS is awfully crowded...
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2014 01:55
|
|
|
Big Finish's "Tom Baker at 80" is out now if any of you guys were interested in that. It's as enjoyable as you would expect a two hour Tom Baker interview to be. 
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2014 02:41
|
|
|
And if anyone hasn't been reading it, Occupation & Oxxidation's Toxx thread is right on the cusp of the review for Love and Monsters.
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2014 02:42
|
|
|
A man who dislikes Doctor Who is about to review a disliked episode of Doctor Who. Will he dislike it? 
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2014 02:45
|
|
|
PriorMarcus posted:A man who dislikes Doctor Who is about to review a disliked episode of Doctor Who. Will he dislike it? Do you sometimes have to actively try to live up to your custom title, or is it totally automatic for you?
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2014 02:46
|
|
|
Oh, here we go
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2014 02:48
|
|
|
DoctorWhat posted:Do you sometimes have to actively try to live up to your custom title, or is it totally automatic for you? Awww, I'm just ribbing dude. I'm happy you enjoy the thread. Don't take me so seriously. But, no, I'm a much more positive person in real life in part because I use the boards to vent a little.
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2014 02:50
|
|
|
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2014 02:50
|
|
|
PriorMarcus posted:Awww, I'm just ribbing dude. I'm happy you enjoy the thread. Don't take me so seriously. That's good. If you took to real life like you did to the forums, I'd worry about you having an aneurysm or something. Noted.
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2014 02:51
|
|
|
PriorMarcus posted:A man who dislikes Doctor Who is about to review a disliked episode of Doctor Who. Will he dislike it? I bet he likes it.
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2014 03:24
|
|
|
Myrddin_Emrys posted:Further evidence that Tom Baker is Boris Johnson in a brown curly wig. Has the Doctor ever played wiff-waff on-screen?
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2014 03:42
|
|
|
This Dr Who Dynamic Rankings site is bullshit. Or the people that vote for it are. The Name of the Doctor is above Hide, and Let's Kill Hitler/A Good Man Goes to War is not near the bottom, but is in fact higher than Cold War (one of my top ten favorites). BULLSHIT BULLSHIT BULLSHIT. And not to mention The Rebel Flesh/The Almost People is nowhere near the top. gently caress ALL THESE PEOPLE WITH BAD OPINIONS.
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2014 03:57
|
|
|
MrL_JaKiri posted:
I don't remember this one too well, but after reading the summary on wikipedia, I do remember loving how unapologetically hammy this character is. He is written as a ham, he is acted as a giant ham, and the way the other characters interact with him seems entirely engineered to pour an applesauce glaze on his hamminess. The villains were generic warblevoiced rubbersuit Who things that I could recall but could not remember which serial they were even in, but I remember the sort-of-cowardly wandering thespian. MrL_JaKiri posted:Waterhouse also accidentally calls Tegan "The Tegan", so imagine I retroactively called her that throughout this post. Ahahahahaha this is amazing. It's so classic Who, you can just picture Waterhouse accidentally saying it and the entire staff, including his fellow actors, rolling their eyes and saying "gently caress it. Cut and print." You also reminded me that Five sparring with Tegan was one of my favorite things about them. I think they're trying to go for that sort of thing with Capaldi and Clara, but it seems much more mean-spirited with Twelve, for a lot of reasons.
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2014 04:04
|
|
|
MrL_JaKiri posted:Re: State of Decay and it's high-tech-decayed-into-dark-age, I want to make a comparison with the Gormenghast series by Mervyn Peake. Set in the titular remote earldom the book describes a very stilted society where everything is run according to ancient tradition and it only takes the introduction of a single chaotic element - a kitchen boy called Steerpike, played very well by Jonathan Rhys Meyers in the BBC adaptation which you really should try and see - to completely destablise the entire society. The books sort of follow the life of Titus Groan, latest heir to the earldom, and him growing up in this chaos followed by, in the third book, him striking out on his own and finding out that Gormenghast is a unique backwater in an otherwise modern and industrialised world which is then also revealed to be awful for different reasons. Goddamn it JaKiri, how can you love Gormenghast and hate Deadly Assassin?
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2014 04:22
|
|
|
Bookmail went out this afternoon, so those who asked should be receiving them soon!
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2014 05:11
|
|
|
DoctorWhat posted:Do you sometimes have to actively try to live up to your custom title, or is it totally automatic for you? He just becomes a little more like Six with every passing post, doesn't he?
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2014 05:12
|
|
|
PriorMarcus posted:A man who dislikes Doctor Who is about to review a disliked episode of Doctor Who. Will he dislike it? It actually might be fun to see his reaction. It's a decent episode for a while, kind of like "Blink" in that it's a Doctor-lite episode about getting over your youthful obsessions and living your life. I really like the new characters, and Jackie shows unusual strength of character. But then the alien at the end is disgusting, with a face sticking out of his rear end, and then we get implied blowjobs from a stone Moaning Myrtle. Yeah, it could be fun to see a hatewatching of this episode.
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2014 05:23
|
|
|
Bicyclops posted:Key to Time is pretty great. It has a lot of Douglas Adams's influence, it sort of has a continuous story, Tom Baker's obvious crush on Mary Tamm is kind of hilarious. It does have moments that sort of make you feel like you're watching a Monty Python sketch about Doctor Who, particularly in the first serial, but it's loads of fun. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WZktJG7-FqY
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2014 07:35
|
|
|
Jerusalem posted:The really neat thing was that in the build-up to naming Smith's successor, it came out that the unofficial frontrunner was Peter Capaldi and pretty much every single person's reaction was,"....oh? Well.... I have no complaints about that...."
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2014 08:08
|
|
|
RTD also talks about trying to hide from Matt Smith when he arrived on set to film his first scene, because he was concerned about getting in the way of "the new guys" and felt that nobody would be interested in what the "old boss" had to say.... but Smith spotted him and made a beeline straight to him to say hello 
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2014 08:22
|
|
|
CobiWann posted:
It was quite fun to listen to this story pretty much directly after The Sirens of Time, because it was such a stark reminder of just how far Big Finish has come since they first began holding the flickering candle in the dark that was Doctor Who in the wilderness years. What immediately stands out is how competent they've become from a technical standpoint, to the point that they're able to throw in little dramatic flourishes that feel natural and confident as opposed to well-meaning but ill-executed. For the most part, gone is the lengthy and clunky exposition to explain what the characters are seeing with their own eyes directly in front of them - the story's creators know that sound effects, direction and naturalistic dialogue will tell the story for them. Now the story itself is utter nonsense, of course, and shares one of the key issues I had with Sirens: the Time Lords basically look like incompetent idiots with no thought for long-term consequences. While I still have issues with the latter, I can mostly forgive the former for much the same reason I loved Day of the Doctor so much - it's a 50th Year celebration of Doctor Who that just unashamedly wallows in the sheer fun of getting the surviving Doctors together for an adventure. And just like Day, they don't let a little thing like the first three actors being dead get in the way of bringing them into an integral part of the story. While "Hartnell" and "Pertwee" have mixed results (sometimes they sound perfect, other times you'd never know it was supposed to be them), "Troughton" is spot-on, perhaps because he was voiced by Frazer Hines (Jamie McCrimmon) who knew him so well. "Hartnell" is voiced by William Russell (Ian Chesterton) and it's entirely appropriate he be there for this story since he was there right at the beginning, and if the cost of that is that "Hartnell" doesn't always sound quite right, I'm more than willing to pay it. The interactions between the Doctors are wonderful, they all pick up who the others are immediately and quickly get caught up on what is happening rather than relying on the traditional misunderstanding and distrust you might expect in a story like this. Though there isn't much of the bickering that Troughton/Pertwee used to do so well, it is fun to hear bits like the various Doctors throwing in the odd little barb or two about how THEY dealt with the arrival of the red light more intelligently than the others (even though they all ended up in the same place). I think it's kind of hilarious that the one who probably had the cleverest response was the 5th Doctor, who makes a point of arriving NOT at the exact time and moment of the temporal distortion. The 6th Doctor just tries to avoid the whole thing altogether which - while safe - isn't exactly a proactive way of dealing with the issue, while the 7th Doctor's curiosity sees him get outplayed for a change as he can't resist the appeal of the mystery. The 4th and 8th Doctors meanwhile are just nattering away happily to each other and getting along enormously well, which is heartwarming to listen to. It was an interesting choice to use Geoffey Beaver's Master as the main enemy, though it made sense since it's not like they could have used Roger Delgado or Anthony Ainley. I don't think he's particularly interesting as a character in this unfortunately, since I've always felt the best use of the character was as a character clutching ferociously to life as his own body decayed and he held on only through sheer stubborn will. To turn him into a suicidal maniac who thinks wiping himself out would be worth it if it means the destruction of the Doctor as well is... well, it just doesn't work for me. That said, there's a certainly hilarious "that's so the Master!" feel to his plan boiling down to,"I can never defeat the Doctor no matter what incarnation he is in.... so I'm going to bring at least 5 of them together in the same place that I'm enacting my evil plan!"... and of course it all falls apart exactly as you'd expect it to. There are some surprisingly dark moments in a story that is otherwise such an unabashed celebration - the fate of Bob Dovie's family, for example, of the callous experiments of the extra-dimensional arms-merchants, or the horrible wall of corpses that attacks the 7th Doctor and Ace. Those moments are amongst the weakest of the story, they're an attempt to up the stakes I guess and anywhere else they'd fit in okay but not here - this is a celebration of the show, a lot of fun and nonsense full of continuity references and interactions between the various Doctors that is unapologetic about being what it is. That's what makes the ending so good, as despite saving their own lives, the universe and all of recorded history.... the Doctors simply can't help being mostly concerned with whether a young man and his family in the suburbs are okay. Dovie's frustration at being continually interrupted, and each of the Doctors getting a moment to tell their companion/s that it's time to get back to the TARDIS is just... well it left me with a great big smile on my face. That's what Light at the End is (and should have been) all about - celebrating the show and leaving the listener with a big smile on their face at the end of it all. Critically speaking it's far from the best story that Big Finish has done, but it didn't need to be, the format and the timing really didn't allow for that to happen. When they remember to revel in the celebration, Light is at its best. When they try to crank up the darker aspects or get too serious, the cracks in the foundation become apparent. Happily they do more of the former than the latter, and every Doctor gets plenty of chances shine, and even the brief appearances of the companions are well handled. As part of the 50th Year celebrations of the show, this is just a blast of a story, and a very enjoyable listen.
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2014 08:49
|
|
|
I listened to The Light at the End as my first Big Finish story. Suffice to say, I was confused as gently caress. I'm really excited about going back to it, but I want to put it off as long as possible so I can absorb some more of the other Doctor's stuff - I've never listened to a single Fourth Doctor story yet, for example.
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2014 09:34
|
|
|
Plavski posted:I listened to The Light at the End as my first Big Finish story. Suffice to say, I was confused as gently caress. I'm really excited about going back to it, but I want to put it off as long as possible so I can absorb some more of the other Doctor's stuff - I've never listened to a single Fourth Doctor story yet, for example. If they go on sale sometime soon, I'd recommend The Renaissance Man or The Wrath of the Iceni. Four and Leela being pretty awesome together.
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2014 10:37
|
|
|
After The War posted:Goddamn it JaKiri, how can you love Gormenghast and hate Deadly Assassin? Consistency ain't the boss of me 
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2014 11:02
|
|
|
I also enjoy the works of Arthur Machen and HP Lovecraft, a tradition the Time Lords of The War Games falls into much better.
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2014 11:04
|
|
|
Here's a factoid about "The Visitation": Saward's working title, which apparently went unchanged until the last minute, was "Invasion of the Plague Men".
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2014 11:20
|
|
|
Metal Loaf posted:Here's a factoid about "The Visitation": Saward's working title, which apparently went unchanged until the last minute, was "Invasion of the Plague Men". He changed it to Plague Rats when it was brought back for series 19 (Nathan-Turner had rejected it for 18 as being too much in the tradition of old meaningless Doctor Who). I'm actually going to dig out my old Doctor Who handbooks for writing these, they have a lot of production detail in them.
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2014 11:47
|
|
|
Jerusalem posted:While "Hartnell" and "Pertwee" have mixed results (sometimes they sound perfect, other times you'd never know it was supposed to be them), "Troughton" is spot-on, perhaps because he was voiced by Frazer Hines (Jamie McCrimmon) who knew him so well. If you haven't listened to any of the Companion Chronicles read by Frazer, you really owe it to yourself to do so. His Troughton is incredible.
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2014 11:54
|
|
|
I think that occ is going to like Fear Her more than this thread does
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2014 12:32
|
|
|
Requestion a Troughton, uh, request; got one from each of the other Doctors.
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2014 12:38
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 25, 2024 22:04 |
|
|
Jerusalem posted:RTD also talks about trying to hide from Matt Smith when he arrived on set to film his first scene, because he was concerned about getting in the way of "the new guys" and felt that nobody would be interested in what the "old boss" had to say.... but Smith spotted him and made a beeline straight to him to say hello THIS I want to see. For those who don't know, RTD is six foot six. Just trying to image him trying to find little cubbyholes to hide in and being just too darn big to fit. Also, one of my favorite RTD anecdotes is whenever he's tell someone he worked on Doctor Who, they'd just look at him and say "Where you one of the monsters?"
|
|
#
?
Sep 4, 2014 12:56
|
|
