Auspol September: The Canberra Clown Car

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gay picnic defence: Oct 5, 2009; I'M CONCERNED ABOUT A NUMBER OF THINGS

Given there is some pretty hosed up poo poo going on in Iraq at the moment, is there a preferable alternative to war that won't allow IS to continue to wreak poo poo for any minorities they stumble across?

# ¿ Sep 1, 2014 09:13

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# ¿ Apr 25, 2024 15:52

gay picnic defence: Oct 5, 2009; I'M CONCERNED ABOUT A NUMBER OF THINGS

Cartoon posted:

As opposed to the other bunch of radicalised/corrupt dictators who are going to get support from us?

This nightmare was set in motion decades ago and was most recently sent into free fall by the 2003 war. We are as collectively responsible for what ISIS is doing as anybody else. Strangely enough pouring less arms and combatants into a war zone seems to cool things off rather than the other alternatives. And if we are so keen on preventing oppression/genocide where ever it is found there are plenty of other places we could be focused on, some as close as West Papua.

I agree, but stepping back and letting things cool off doesn't seem like it is going to provide much immediate relief to anyone who isn't a Sunni extremist in the north of Iraq right now. Obviously the best thing would be to have some serious discourse in Sunni society about religion and proper conduct towards people outside their faith or whatever, however I'm not seeing anything to suggest that is occurring, or if it is that it will result in anything meaningful.

# ¿ Sep 1, 2014 10:41

gay picnic defence: Oct 5, 2009; I'M CONCERNED ABOUT A NUMBER OF THINGS

You Am I posted:

Abbott is denying rumours that an Australian plane has been shot down in Iraq while delivering humanitarian aid

It um was ah just a ah birdsrike you see. 9 mm sparrows ah the um defence department er um informed me.

# ¿ Sep 1, 2014 23:58

gay picnic defence: Oct 5, 2009; I'M CONCERNED ABOUT A NUMBER OF THINGS

Splode posted:

Is the suicide rate increasing? Or are we just eliminating the things that used to kill young people so it appears as a higher percentage. (I assume it's a bit of both?)

quote:

The paper by Page and colleagues adds to a growing literature that considers the effect of the political environment (whether from the point of view of which political regime holds power or considering in more detail the proportion of population voting for particular parties) and mortality.1 2 In this case the specific cause of death in question is suicide, and the paper thus adds to a long tradition of research in sociology and epidemiology on factors beyond the individual that influence societal rates of suicide.3-5

The findings by Page et al suggest a dose-response or perhaps "true" effect such that during the 20th century the presence of Conservative governments at both State and Federal level in Australia were associated with higher suicide rates. Crucially, the effect is strongest when both levels of government are Conservative, with adjusted relative risks of suicide of 1.17 for men and 1.40 for women compared with years of administration by both State and Federal Labor governments.

Shaw, M., Dorling, D. and Smith, G. (2002). Mortality and political climate: how suicide rates have risen during periods of Conservative government, 1901--2000. Journal of Epidemiology and Community Health, 56(10), pp.723--725.

# ¿ Sep 4, 2014 10:21

gay picnic defence: Oct 5, 2009; I'M CONCERNED ABOUT A NUMBER OF THINGS

Amethyst posted:

http://m.inthemix.com.au/news/58889/Police_push_for_lockout_expansion_to_Newtown

gently caress this lovely city.

Whats wrong with the lockouts?

# ¿ Sep 5, 2014 04:05

gay picnic defence: Oct 5, 2009; I'M CONCERNED ABOUT A NUMBER OF THINGS

economy is fukt

quote:

A resources expert has forecast the iron ore price will continue to tumble as the Chinese economy begins "unravelling", causing significant issues for Australia.

Speaking at a conference on Thursday, the federal government's former top resources forecaster Quentin Grafton said the iron ore price was unlikely to recover quickly, leading to a painful downturn in the Australian economy in 2015.

"This isn't about doom and gloom, it's about looking at the risk and numbers. It's a clear and present danger," Mr Grafton said.

He said the Reserve Bank of Australia should prepare for a difficult ride as the overpriced property market and high dollar created a challenging economic environment as coal and iron ore prices dropped.

Home grown problem
Mr Grafton's comments join an increasingly vociferous choir of concern about the Chinese economy, with investor fears stoked by a Chinese residential property market that is experiencing its worst slump on record.

The average price of new homes has been falling in China for months, with the rate of decline accelerating from June (0.5 per cent) to July (0.8 per cent), sending tremors through the economy. It dropped another 0.6 per cent in August, bringing the average to $US1737 per square metre.

Property market issues are of critical concern for the Chinese economy and global investment community, as the property sector is a key economic driver that contributed 15 per cent of China's 2013 gross domestic product.

In a recent newsletter about the Chinese economy, Westpac analysts said real estate was the heart of domestic confidence issues and predicted a grim future for ongoing growth.

"Housing construction activity is vital to employment levels and land values are vital to the functioning of large swathes of the credit system," Westpac's Phat Dragon explained.

"In the early moments of a policy induced housing correction, the economy tends to be able to maintain its composure for a number of months, occasionally even quarters, before the ultimate capitulation."

Government help
Global market research group Nomura said the Chinese government intervention would be needed to prevent a decline in economic growth.

Nomura tracks a range of Chinese economic indicators, such as credit activity, each month. In June, 71 per cent of these were positive or "hot" but this dropped rapidly to 52 per cent in July.

A report released by Citi this week also said targeted government policies would be needed but warned significant intervention was unlikely.

"The central government is not in a rush to introduce nationwide policy to interrupt the market correction. The correction may last for three years, forcing capacity reduction," the report said.

Short of a sharp collapse in property investment, Citi said it was unlikely the government would loosen its overall credit policy.

"So far, targeted easing has been used, but broad-based loosening (such as RRR and rate cuts) may be needed late this year or next year," the report said.

Iron bond
China's property market woes are directly linked to the Australian economy as Chinese residential property construction is a leading consumer of iron ore, which accounts for $1 of every $5 of Australian exports.

The dropping demand and oversupply issues have caused the iron ore price to drop to a five year low. It is currently hovering around $US84.38 a tonne.

The next historic low would take a significant slide to $76 a tonne, a rate not seen since September 2009.

# ¿ Sep 5, 2014 04:25

gay picnic defence: Oct 5, 2009; I'M CONCERNED ABOUT A NUMBER OF THINGS

Splode posted:

The lockouts have achieved nothing, except for destroying what lovely nightlife sydney had, and worse, shifting the awful bogan brigade from wollongong, newcastle and the central coast from kings cross, where it was contained, out to Newtown and the actual good bars (which are now all poo poo). This will just move the problems to some other suburb.

Of course, what will actually happen is that they'll expand it to all of NSW and you'll never be able to go out for a drink after 10 anywhere.

But contained or not, people were being drunken fuckheads and causing problems. Is there a better solution to the whole violent drunk problem? I'd be inclined to think the lockout laws were just tories and cops cracking down on young people having fun but when you have people in hospitals coming out with stories about their friday and saturday nights it sounds like a pretty serious issue. PLus I wouldn't have thought the libs would hurt their buddies in the Hotels Association unless there was significant reason to.

# ¿ Sep 5, 2014 05:34

gay picnic defence: Oct 5, 2009; I'M CONCERNED ABOUT A NUMBER OF THINGS

webmeister posted:

I didn't think there was anything surprising at all in there? Like its good to hear it directly from Ashby that Pyne, Brough and Roy were directly involved, but I thought everyone knew that already?

I always thought it was pretty clear from Abbott's "no specific knowledge" comment that several Libs knew exactly what was going on. And holy gently caress Mal Brough has to be the slimiest politician I've seen in ages.

The LNP sounds more and more like a bucket of corporate psychopaths clawing at each other, while being parasitised by swarms of sycophants and yes men chasing the fastest career trajectory.

# ¿ Sep 7, 2014 23:54

gay picnic defence: Oct 5, 2009; I'M CONCERNED ABOUT A NUMBER OF THINGS

Les Affaires posted:

For those playing at home, Vasse is part of the Western Australian South West wine and tourism region. Populated by wineries and their owners, and seachange retirees. Minor hippie population but overall the likelihood of anybody who identifies with the working class getting anywhere near the seat is laughable.

Is that proposed Margret River coal mine causing any political unrest down that way?

# ¿ Sep 9, 2014 11:32

gay picnic defence: Oct 5, 2009; I'M CONCERNED ABOUT A NUMBER OF THINGS

ewe2 posted:

The elephant in the room of course is over two decades of persistent chipping away at the value of student political power. UQ isn't mentioned in the article but I saw first hand how the Young Libs got themselves into power and systematically took down the Union back in the 80's. It's been downhill from there of course.

The background to all of this is the fear of a popular uprising by intelligent, committed non-politicians as was seen in the 70's with the Vietnam marches. The youth wings of both majors were enrolled to turn student unions and councils into safe, irrelevant play-pens for student politicians which is how they've essentially stayed since the 80's. The degree treadmill got rolling and fee deregulation is the final nail. No one will have time or money to ask questions or have opinions.

Any ideas on how these changes could be wound back?

open24hours posted:

Students and young people in general are also surprisingly conservative. The idea that things will get better when the boomers die off is a pipe dream.

I think it's more that they are uninformed, which creates the impression of conservatism. I reckon when they are shown the facts they take a compassionate stance on issues but they have to have that poo poo literally rammed down their throats because no one bothers to actually learn stuff these days.

That and the only visible student political action on campus these days seems to be slightly deranged and unwashed looking trots shouting incoherently into their megaphone or interrupting lectures to advertise some 'emergency day of action', not something most young people these days particularly identify with or want to be a part of.

Gough Suppressant posted:

Ugggggh it's loving student elections this week at campus.

The two main tickets appear to be

Stop Abbotts attack on students, support Palestine, attack discrimination on campus

Vs

Free breakfast, BBQ and beer

I can choose between 'Activate' and 'Stand up', plus a few minor groups like 'Free Beer', 'Free Carparking' and 'Free Palestine'.
I have no idea which Young Whatevers are backing each of the groups, they all just look like your generic student politicians to me.

Also apparently one of our trots is getting expelled for assaulting a woman who didn't vote for a resolution against Israel in some student council thing. I could be wrong but as far as I know the women wasn't even a Zionist, just didn't think the SRC meeting was an appropriate place for geo-politics. Anyway, the trots have put up posters everywhere blaming Pyne for this guy getting expelled.

# ¿ Sep 10, 2014 05:22

gay picnic defence: Oct 5, 2009; I'M CONCERNED ABOUT A NUMBER OF THINGS

webmeister posted:

That's fair enough, but it's still counter-productive if the profits from your purchases are going to transnationals who hide their profits in overseas tax havens and exploit the gently caress out of the third world anyway.

Basically the only moral solution is to live on an off-grid subsistence farm and eat organic mung beans.

# ¿ Sep 10, 2014 05:37

gay picnic defence: Oct 5, 2009; I'M CONCERNED ABOUT A NUMBER OF THINGS

Ammonsa posted:

Ahaha what options are there for a high school dropout who got fired from her job. Should I kill my are self now?

Is going back to school an option?

# ¿ Sep 11, 2014 02:38

gay picnic defence: Oct 5, 2009; I'M CONCERNED ABOUT A NUMBER OF THINGS

Looks like the uni fee and HECS changes won't be going ahead (until Palmer gets some sort of inducement of course).

# ¿ Sep 11, 2014 03:11

gay picnic defence: Oct 5, 2009; I'M CONCERNED ABOUT A NUMBER OF THINGS

webmeister posted:

It's funny, because those strawman quotes aren't strawmen at all - they're completely true and Foxtel has completely lost that fight. My company has done quite a lot of research for "a large US-based video streaming service", and that's pretty much how consumers think these days. Nobody wants to wait six months to buy the DVD, and nobody wants to pay the ridiculous premium Foxtel puts on those shows. The only option left is piracy.

There are more cultural factors at play as well, but that's basically the gist of it - nothing to do with entitlement issues. It still amazes me that even with the example of iTunes/Spotify etc on how to combat piracy, the TV/movie industry is still 15 years behind.

Yeah, but the existing arrangements make them a lot of money so why change them when you can simply lobby a friendly conservative government to make some nice new laws for you?

# ¿ Sep 11, 2014 03:18

gay picnic defence: Oct 5, 2009; I'M CONCERNED ABOUT A NUMBER OF THINGS

Gough Suppressant posted:

RMIT Connect(Young Labor) are promising Free Breakfast, going to be hard to top that inducement.

Free breakfast and a suite of inconvenient environmental laws consigned to the bin would probably do it.

# ¿ Sep 11, 2014 03:20

gay picnic defence: Oct 5, 2009; I'M CONCERNED ABOUT A NUMBER OF THINGS

Mr Chips posted:

Spending years in self-directed investigation, working to deadlines and tight budgets, applying sophisticated analytical and experimental techniques, and collaborating with others to produce a substantial contribution to cutting edge knowledge? I can see why Australian business managers wouldn't be interested in that.

There was a write-up in The Conversation by an academic from a business school somewhere who basically pointed out that a big contributor to Australian production inefficiency was the fact that our business managers are typically loving terrible. I read a paper today that estimated that 60% of the workforce was not engaged while at work, and the drivers of that were pretty much management fault.

# ¿ Sep 14, 2014 11:50

gay picnic defence: Oct 5, 2009; I'M CONCERNED ABOUT A NUMBER OF THINGS

Splode posted:

No the uni is being paid.

It amounts to the same thing though, money is being exchanged for research.

You both might be right though, it might make sense for industry to outsource their R&D to PHDs and universities instead of hiring their own and building labs and whatever for them to work in.

# ¿ Sep 14, 2014 12:19

gay picnic defence: Oct 5, 2009; I'M CONCERNED ABOUT A NUMBER OF THINGS

CrazyTolradi posted:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-09-14/bis-figures-confirm-australian-housing-overvalued-emerging-mark/5740808

What a big shock! I do love the report from July saying that renting leaves as well off, or better off, than buying a home currently.

I love how recently there seems to have been a spike in ads for homeloans and investment advice, the cynic in me is probably correct in that the banks and other lenders are trying to counter any concerns people might be having about a bubble.

# ¿ Sep 15, 2014 01:10

gay picnic defence: Oct 5, 2009; I'M CONCERNED ABOUT A NUMBER OF THINGS

Cartoon posted:

It's pretty much the drum I've been banging for the last decade due to the ridiculous focus on productivity being a problem with employees in Australia.

Elton Mayo is probably spinning in his grave.

# ¿ Sep 15, 2014 01:50

gay picnic defence: Oct 5, 2009; I'M CONCERNED ABOUT A NUMBER OF THINGS

Cartoon posted:

Lets buy some Japaneese subs!

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-09-15/japanese-concerns-over-submarine-deal/5743022

Is there anything these muppets can't gently caress up? This makes the Gillard governments Timor and Malaysia deals (sans consult) seem mild.

At least we're going for an off the shelf model rather than some lovely make-work thing using immature technologies like we did with the Collins.

# ¿ Sep 15, 2014 07:55

gay picnic defence: Oct 5, 2009; I'M CONCERNED ABOUT A NUMBER OF THINGS

Matthew Beet posted:

And really the banks will always have your number soo.... look to what the banks are doing to see where the market most likely is headed.

Well you could pretty safely take a punt and assume that the interest rates will probably be higher on average over a 30 year loan than they are right now.

# ¿ Sep 15, 2014 13:33

gay picnic defence: Oct 5, 2009; I'M CONCERNED ABOUT A NUMBER OF THINGS

Chiwie posted:

I can't be arsed getting into the go or no go debate on Iraq, but the thing you said about the aircraft and diggers is complete bullshit FYI.

Navy is pretty lovely though and they need more than new ships/subs to pull them out of the constant cycle of retardation.

Don't worry, our purchase of F35s should bring the airforce into line with the navy.

# ¿ Sep 15, 2014 23:53

gay picnic defence: Oct 5, 2009; I'M CONCERNED ABOUT A NUMBER OF THINGS

Ragingsheep posted:

Good thing the government removed the mining tax or the poor miners would be doubly suffering.

http://www.smh.com.au/business/mining-and-resources/australian-export-risk-on-china-dirty-coal-ban-20140916-10hnzb.html

The only solution is to invest in more coal mines and dredge the reef.

Speaking of which, there was an article in the Age a week or so back about how the Abbot's Point stuff and the Galilee basin mines will probably fall in a heap because nobody will lend the billions needed to the Indian coal mining company.

# ¿ Sep 16, 2014 07:31

gay picnic defence: Oct 5, 2009; I'M CONCERNED ABOUT A NUMBER OF THINGS

If nothing else it will look ok on the resume.

# ¿ Sep 16, 2014 07:44

gay picnic defence: Oct 5, 2009; I'M CONCERNED ABOUT A NUMBER OF THINGS

Jumpingmanjim posted:

Has anyone else noticed a lot more bubble talk in the media of late or is it just me?

Sloppy Joe said it wasn't a problem though.

# ¿ Sep 16, 2014 12:32

gay picnic defence: Oct 5, 2009; I'M CONCERNED ABOUT A NUMBER OF THINGS

clusterfuck posted:

The noose is tightening around the coal industry. Industry experts baffled!

Risky business: China dumps our dirty coal

Hmmm, what could the endgame be? Doesn't make sense, everyone lervs coal!

The winemakers in the Hunter should be pleased, those coal mines will be going out of business before long if China sticks to its guns with this.

# ¿ Sep 17, 2014 00:21

gay picnic defence: Oct 5, 2009; I'M CONCERNED ABOUT A NUMBER OF THINGS

Mad Katter posted:

It really distresses me that we can spend half a billion dollars a year on bombing IS, but not on this. World is fukt.

If we bought back the mining tax we could do both :shrug:

# ¿ Sep 17, 2014 01:30

gay picnic defence: Oct 5, 2009; I'M CONCERNED ABOUT A NUMBER OF THINGS

SynthOrange posted:

I thought this was the end of entitlement!

Only for poors.

# ¿ Sep 17, 2014 10:07

gay picnic defence: Oct 5, 2009; I'M CONCERNED ABOUT A NUMBER OF THINGS

Kial posted:

I'm wondering where this hatred of Clover comes from. Her progressive policies, bike lanes and such? Is that really it?

Nipping a popular Greenie in the bud before it catches on or something.

# ¿ Sep 17, 2014 11:00

gay picnic defence: Oct 5, 2009; I'M CONCERNED ABOUT A NUMBER OF THINGS

Gough Suppressant posted:

The attacks on Clover Moore are loving hugely personal actually. I mean we are talking about someone who the state government has tried on multiple occasions to pass legislation to specifically get her out of office.

They could be specifically directed at her as a non-compliant politician getting in the way of some cronyism, but not actually directed at her as a person if that makes sense.

# ¿ Sep 17, 2014 11:38

gay picnic defence: Oct 5, 2009; I'M CONCERNED ABOUT A NUMBER OF THINGS

adamantium|wang posted:

Wonderful time to be in western Sydney this morning as police are everywhere conducting "counter terrorism" operations they refuse to give any details about.

Except for the number of people they've arrested so far. And photos and video of the arrests which they've made available to the media.

Aside from that the police are making no comments.

But not to worry, the Government has that part covered!

I never got the practical reason publicity surrounding terrorist stuff. Surely the intelligence agencies would be better off operating quietly on their own without the hype. After the big announcement and all these arrests, the first thing I'd do if I were planning some kind of terrorist attack is urgently review all security systems and try and make the plan even harder for national security forces to uncover. Assuming that terrorists groups aren't so stupid to ignore all this and keep going on business as usual it seems like all the fuss is only going to make the job of security forces harder, and the country less safe.

Obviously the real reason they publicize it is to distract from the budget but I'm surprised no one from the security sector has called them out on it.

# ¿ Sep 18, 2014 00:57

gay picnic defence: Oct 5, 2009; I'M CONCERNED ABOUT A NUMBER OF THINGS

Systematic posted:

Vandalizing mosques, there's a tactic that won't radicalize more Islamic people, ever...

To be fair thats probably exactly what the fash want. Just as the West invading Iraq is a recruiting coup for IS, some sort of terror attack or retribution for some petty vandalism would play right into the hands of the conservatives.

# ¿ Sep 19, 2014 09:39

gay picnic defence: Oct 5, 2009; I'M CONCERNED ABOUT A NUMBER OF THINGS

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-09-24/one-third-of-asx-companies-fragile/5764640

quote:

A report out today on the health of Australia's listed companies says nearly a third are confronting the risk of a financial catastrophe.

Analysis of almost 16,000 annual reports by professional accounting body CPA Australia showed more alarm bells were ringing now than during the depths of the global financial crisis in early 2009.

The research, conducted between 2005 and 2013, said the red-flagged companies were exposed to the dual risks of the end of the mining investment boom and an unexpected slowdown in China.

The CPA study was based on the snowballing of "going concern" warnings from auditors which were used to flag "significant uncertainty" in a company's ability to survive.

CPA Australia chief executive Alex Malley told the AM program the findings were a sobering reality check that many Australian companies were fragile.

"We've been talking about the potential impacts of the slowdown in China, the strength of the Australian dollar and the effects of the tapering mining boom on the economy for some time," he said.

"Now this report, compiled based on virtually all companies listed on the ASX, shows these economic factors are being felt across the market and are putting almost a third of ASX-listed companies at risk of financial catastrophe.

SOUNDCLOUD: The ABC's Peter Ryan speaks with CPA Australia boss Alex Malley
"It really begs the question how our economy would be placed were we to face another shock like the GFC."

According to the research, the going concern warnings rose significantly in the energy and mining sectors, with more than 40 per cent of companies feared to be at risk in 2013.

The report comes as evidence mounts that China's economy is slowing faster than expected and that the official growth target of 7.5 per cent might not be achieved this year.

Australian miners are exposed with the iron ore price now at a fresh five-year low of around $US79 per tonne.

However, the CPA report said non-mining sectors such as consumer staples, industrials, health care and utilities were also facing concerns about their financial health and how they would fare in another global shock.

The poor things :ohdear:

It might be interesting to see how Sloppy Joe handles stimulating a slowing economy given all the austerity rhetoric he's been dribbling over the last few years.

# ¿ Sep 24, 2014 00:41

gay picnic defence: Oct 5, 2009; I'M CONCERNED ABOUT A NUMBER OF THINGS

Joe Hockeys Scrote posted:

just putting it out there, but the newspapers probably wouldnt be reporting that he was going to cut peoples heads off if they didnt have a source for it

they dont just make poo poo up

It wouldn't surprise me if a minister for somethingorother decided to leak some little tidbits to their mates at news ltd to keep the terrorism ball rolling.

# ¿ Sep 24, 2014 08:26

gay picnic defence: Oct 5, 2009; I'M CONCERNED ABOUT A NUMBER OF THINGS

Matthew Beet posted:

So Vic Pol not releasing crime stats until after the election so that they aren't politicized, is this a legit thing to suggest? I remember Overland being embroiled in allegations that he released misleading data on the lead up to the 2010 election which ultimately led to him stepping down.

Depends on the data. If it shows that the govt. has hosed up then it probably isn't legit, if its just usual crime stats showing no glaring highlights or low lights then it probably is as he says.

Honestly I think they'd be better off releasing it on its due date, along with all the source data so any inaccuracies can be examined. Otherwise the government is potentially escaping scrutiny or not able to claim credit for something it may have done well on. The fact that the office of the Premier has suggested that it be withheld suggests the former is probably the case.

# ¿ Sep 24, 2014 12:50

gay picnic defence: Oct 5, 2009; I'M CONCERNED ABOUT A NUMBER OF THINGS

Ian Winthorpe III posted:

It really is strange isn't it? I guess you show your virtue and knowledge through words of shame or renunciation of western culture, even when doing so aligns you with cultures or ideologies whose histories and practices you have to work really hard at ignoring in order for the whole 'tolerance' and 'diversity' schema to work. The end result is an infantilized charicature of Islamic civilization; a hobby horse on which members of the aspirational intelligensia attempt to one-up each other with ever greater displays of guilt or fabricated sensitivity.

Here is a good example from a few pages back:

Note that firstly the wearer of the beard is exempted from any role he may play in the attention drawn to him. Rather we have repeated invocations of the 'ignorance and stupidity' of the wider public who seemingly don't understand that 'There's a lot of Islamic jurisprudence about managing facial hair'. My response to that is

a) So what? Why should the average Australian take it upon themselves to be informed about the technical distinctions of Islamic facial hair.

b) Who are you to criticize the supposed ignorance and stupidity towards Islam? I see no specific practices or beliefs outlined, just an assumption that it's very spiritual and important to them and here's whitey yet again insulting the muslim community to get their bigoted kicks. Also comparing a beard to a burqa as if the latter isn't a gendered tool of possession and patriarchy is like.....hella ig'nant bro.

The issue is the automatic other-ising of someone simply because they dress or grow their beards differently, which, at the end of the day, is rooted in ignorance. The problem isn't a lack of understanding (I don't pretend to understand a great deal about Islam), it is that people automatically assume the worst because their perceptual bias leads them to believe that every Muslim is up to no good.

On the issue of mental illness vs ideology, I think it is unhelpful to discuss the issue in terms of one at the exclusion of the other. IMO fundamentalism is a result of an interplay internal processes like personality, mental illness, values, self esteem, and external factors such as upbringing, socialisation, engagement in the community and their social networks.

# ¿ Sep 25, 2014 00:56

gay picnic defence: Oct 5, 2009; I'M CONCERNED ABOUT A NUMBER OF THINGS

Ian Winthorpe III posted:

This dude was running around with an ISIS flag which is a pretty solid justification for othering based not on ignorance but on knowledge of them, the same dastardly othering that is performed by a Chinese guy on a group of skinheads or a young women walking past some rough looking guys at night.

People prejudge each other based on appearances and dress constantly, i'm not going to boohoo about a devout muslim upset because people keep assuming he's a devout muslim.

What problem specifically? Most people are able to separate their opinion of individuals from the wider issue of the presence of Islam in our society which as a political or ideological movement will probably result in no good.

Ok so which of these factors is it that causes so much more fundamentalism in Muslim, rather than Orthodox or Tongan communities?

Obviously running around with the flag of a group known to be responsible for genocide is different to walking down the street with a beard. I don't think anyone could be blamed for making judgments about a guy flying that flag, just as we'd all judge a guy flying a Nazi swastika. My issue is when people make those assumptions based on meaningless factors such as beards or headscarves.

How can you assume that the presence of Islam in our society will result in no good? It's like taking Fred Nile and using him as an example of christianity being no good for society. It might be true that neither are good for society, but you have to take in the bigger picture, the actions of the majority of the members of those groups before you can say one way or another.

You'd have to do some research to be sure, but if I were to guess at why Muslims become fundamentalists it would be due to the historical and ongoing social and political instability in their countries of origin, the stigma and ostracism taking place in their adopted western countries, and determined efforts on the part of existing fundamentalists to recruit more to their cause by taking advantage of the previously mentioned factors. However it is important to note that in any group there are extremists who take the groups values and beliefs too far and Islamists are far from the only example. You can see the same extremism in Russian orthodox Christians, ultra orthodox jews, fundamentalist christians in the US and Australia, and white supremacists. The only difference is the way in which those extreme attitudes are acted upon, which could be due to the perceived values of the religion/ideology (but obviously not values held by all members or all christains would be bombing abortion clinics), or a cultural tendency from their region of origin.

So to summarize, there are inherent factors in people themselves and their social context that lead them towards extremist ideals, and the ways in which those ideals are displayed could be a factor of interpretations of culture or religion. By claiming it is simply due to Islam in the exclusion of all other factors is pretty dangerous, because it further isolates Muslims in our society (adding to the social pressures to adopt fundamentalist values) and does nothing to alleviate the problems of young Muslims being radicalised.

# ¿ Sep 25, 2014 01:56

gay picnic defence: Oct 5, 2009; I'M CONCERNED ABOUT A NUMBER OF THINGS

Ian Winthorpe III posted:

Totally agree, it's an archaic and destructive way to view the world

You're an idiot: http://www.abc.net.au/religion/articles/2013/05/10/3756163.htm
It turns out that actual Islamic law (as determined by scholars and jurists and poo poo, and not Lambie) doesn't promote violence against secular regimes. Who would have guessed?

# ¿ Sep 25, 2014 08:52

gay picnic defence: Oct 5, 2009; I'M CONCERNED ABOUT A NUMBER OF THINGS

webmeister posted:

Cringe city...

http://www.vice.com/en_au/vice-australia-0/we-made-young-liberals-and-young-labor-date-each-other

Is this the beginning of a thousand year breeding program which will ultimately lead to the birth of a messiah who can lead humanity down the path of the Third Way?

# ¿ Sep 29, 2014 08:40

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# ¿ Apr 25, 2024 15:52

gay picnic defence: Oct 5, 2009; I'M CONCERNED ABOUT A NUMBER OF THINGS

quote:

The best way to bludgeon your ideological and commercial adversaries in the corporate world is to get your peak body to do it for you.

This way, you can abuse people with gay abandon, shrug away any responsibility for your actions and leave your marque intact, your brand untarnished, even while financing the entire caper.

Our favourite peak body, and we confess to an especial fondness for this organisation, is the union which represents the interests of large foreign-controlled mining companies: the Minerals Council of Australia.

For this peak body, no depth is too low to plumb, no truth too sacred to be stretched. Were you to ask one of its main backers, say BHP Billiton, how much their shareholders are paying to bankroll its activities, or even whether the board and executive stand behind its latest ad hominem spray, you will hear the sounds of silence.

Conflating royalties with tax is one of the specialties of the Minerals Council for big foreign miners in Australia. Pretending, with the paid collaboration of selected independent experts, that foreign mining companies are entitled to extract minerals from the soils of this country scot-free, without paying a royalty, and ship them overseas, is a ruse for which they display considerable flair.

The belittling of its critics reached fever point in recent weeks. In June, the NSW Minerals Council � the NSW branch of the big foreign mining companies' union � responded with extraordinary spite to a piece written by left-leaning think tank the Australia Institute (TAI).

Stopping a smidgen short of Queensland MP George Christiansen � who dubbed green activists "terrorists" this week � they circulated caricatures of TAI economists Richard Denniss and Ben Oquist as puppets of the Greens political party.

Never mind that there are no formal ties, financial or otherwise, between TAI and any political party. The lobbyists played the man as usual, not the ball.

TAI had the cheek to ruffle through thousands of pages of state budget papers and tote up the subsidies to the mining industry in Australia. The figure came to $17.6 billion over six years. The mining lobby didn't respond with its own figure; it simply issued abusive press releases claiming "gross deception" and propaganda on behalf of TAI, saying that this think tank was hell bent on destroying the mining industry and ruining the lives of hard-working Australians.

The $17.6 billion put on subsidies was not so much a matter of interpretation � as the Minerals Council's independent expert framed it � but more one of addition.

The subsidies are not fabricated. They are real. They can be added up. And there is no doubt that many of the projects subsidised by taxpayers have delivered a worthwhile economic benefit. Some subsidies have been worth it, others not.

The key points in the report commissioned to respond to TAI were:

infrastructure spending for miners by state governments is not "assistance" as it is usually on a commercial basis;
the mining sector enjoys no preferential access to infrastructure; and,
spending on mining does not come at the expense of social infrastructure.
These key points, however, are contradicted by state submissions to the Commonwealth Grants Commission. This is the body the states go to � cap in one hand, violin in the other � to complain about how poor they are and therefore demand as much in GST revenues as they possibly can.

The submission from the Queensland Treasury is particularly revealing. Bear in mind that Queensland shells out the bulk of mining subsidies.

Let's compare the Minerals Council claims with Queensland Treasury submissions.

Minerals Council:

The bulk of the expenditure claimed by the Institute as a subsidy is associated with the provision of services through rail, port, water and electricity infrastructure investments by government-owned business or Public Trading Enterprises (PTEs). Consistent with national competition policy and the state-based legal and policy arrangements that govern these entities, these services are provided on a commercial, cost recovery basis through user charges levied equally on all users, including the mining and resources sector. (pi)

Queensland Treasury:

One view expressed during the GST Distribution Review submission process was that infrastructure costs borne by government in support of the mining industry should not be recognised in the HFE process because the majority of these expenditures are cost recovered from industry. However, little evidence has been presented to support this assertion, and Queensland has substantial costs that are not recovered from industry, particularly in the area of roads construction. It seems likely that other mining states have similar expenditures. (p16)

Minerals Council:

Finally, while all state and territory governments have finite limits on their ability to borrow, investment in infrastructure recovered by user charges does not impact on a government's ability to borrow for social infrastructure. This is because any such borrowings are supported by that user charge income � that is, the higher the potential income, the higher the borrowing capacity of the government.

In this respect, the Institute is just plain wrong in its assertion that mining and resources sector related capital investment comes at the expense of investment in social infrastructure. In fact, the opposite is true; a sizeable portion of the profits of government businesses that provide such services as rail, ports and electricity flow back to Treasury coffers as dividends, and are used to fund the provision of additional social infrastructure and services. (pi-ii)

Queensland Treasury:

Some costs may also be recovered by the government over time if they are directly industry related. However, there is a real opportunity cost for governments in undertaking the initial capital expenditure. Governments face budget constraints and spending on mining-related infrastructure means less infrastructure spending in other areas, including social infrastructure such as hospitals and schools. For many projects directly related to assisting mining industry development, such as land acquisitions for state development areas, the expected timeframes for cost recovery are extremely long (sometimes decades). The opportunity cost of this use of limited funds is a real cost to government and the community. (p15)

People should be able to have the real debate in this country about industry contributions without being bullied by lobby groups and their ideological allies in the blogosphere. "The lowest form of human filth" was the line in one recent post about TAI.

Never mind that that is a ludicrous thing to say about a bloke in Canberra with a spreadsheet; this sort of thing is probably on the rise. As mining profits subside, the debate over industry entitlements and contributions to society is likely to get more strident. Then there's the environment.

# ¿ Sep 29, 2014 10:22

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