Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Locked thread
Captain Foo
May 11, 2004

we vibin'
we slidin'
we breathin'
we dyin'


Juanito posted:

Also what happens if we continue to nolynch and the scum withholds like a scaredy cat?

I murder everyone

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Meinberg
Oct 9, 2011


I protected CPig last night, since he is the one that there is the most town consensus on. I'm increasingly confident in the Grandicap theory. ##vote grandicap

Juanito
Jan 20, 2004

I wasn't paying attention
to what you just said.

Can you repeat yourself
in a more interesting way?


Hell Gem

Works for me

##vote Grandi


If it was Cpig, well good job.

Captain Foo
May 11, 2004

we vibin'
we slidin'
we breathin'
we dyin'


The sun had barely risen on the seventh day. The beautiful people looked at each other, and with grim resolve, blasted one of their own into a like pile of dead meat. It was over. The World would rebuild.

On Day 7, Grandicap, Apocalypse-Aligned Gunlugger, was executed!

The World has won!

I'm on my phone so I can't post the doc right now, but thanks for playing and feel free to post your role if it hasn't been yet.

Meinberg
Oct 9, 2011


Sorry that the effort died off towards the end there. I had a ton of fun, and I think Apocalypse World is a great game that more people should play.

From a purely design perspective, multiple masonry docs can limit the amount of discussion that happens in the thread, which can make things less fun for the people not involved in them, and may be partially to blame for the drop in activity.

CapitalistPig
Nov 3, 2005

You turn the corner and see a greenskinned fuckmidget.
Roll for initiative.

Woohoo I survived a game as town to the end and we won!

Loved your flavor foo

Winson_Paine
Oct 27, 2000

Wait, something is wrong.


YOU GUYS

Geeze.

Nice work, go team world!

Foo post the roles and stuff, I wanna see

Juanito
Jan 20, 2004

I wasn't paying attention
to what you just said.

Can you repeat yourself
in a more interesting way?


Hell Gem

I won with Cpig and Meinberg? Sweeeet.

Good job, guys. Grandi's posts were good yesterday.

Thanks for the game, Foo. I really enjoyed it. Great flavor.


I think my D1 breadcrumb helped seal things.

Juanito
Jan 20, 2004

I wasn't paying attention
to what you just said.

Can you repeat yourself
in a more interesting way?


Hell Gem

Pretty cool coincidence that Hal recruited me on N0, and I'd investigated him the same night.

Meinberg
Oct 9, 2011


Grandicap played a pretty good low-key scum game. His activity yesterday was definitely very good, and I didn't really have any defense against it more eloquent than "nuh uh." Still, process of elimination worked its wiles.

fiery_valkyrie
Mar 26, 2003

I'm proud of you, Bender. Sure, you lost. You lost bad. But the important thing is I beat up someone who hurt my feelings in high school.

Congrats guys. For a while there I thought everyone was just going to stop posting, it got so quiet.

Jump King
Aug 10, 2011



Let it be known that Juanito, cpig and meinberg are the best town I guess.

Meinberg
Oct 9, 2011


MildManeredManikin posted:

Let it be known that Juanito, cpig and meinberg are the best town I guess.

I like to think that I did a fairly good job doctoring, but not so well at everything else. FV and Grandicap both did great though.

Captain Foo
May 11, 2004

we vibin'
we slidin'
we breathin'
we dyin'


Mod doc https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/10p_ejEsUsw91_4iA1ATLfTFyjTUHn6jobVQMypusiwE/edit?usp=docslist_api

Jump King
Aug 10, 2011



Oh sorry for wimping out btw

Meinberg
Oct 9, 2011


I knew the Angel was guaranteed World! My speculation proves somewhat accurate!

Hal Insandenza
Feb 12, 2004




I knew that grandi guy was no good!

Great job town, you guys are the best.

Thanks a ton Foo, cool flavor and poo poo. Plus I love mason recruiting!

Sorry Jedit, I guess we could have let you win after all... just had to be sure.

Captain Foo
May 11, 2004

we vibin'
we slidin'
we breathin'
we dyin'


My general thoughts, though you can see my running thought process in the mod doc:

Either I didn't allot myself enough time to run updates, or the game was too complicated; I botched a lot of important things.
Though flavorful, I think there were too many masonries and it took away from in-thread discussion.
Despite that, I was a bit disappointed in the overall lack of posting in the latter half of the game.

Captain Foo
May 11, 2004

we vibin'
we slidin'
we breathin'
we dyin'


Also: I would like to run a version of this at some point in the future, but I don't know how well it would work as an open setup. Thoughts? I've also thought about writing some of the Limited Edition playbooks into roles; the Touchstone, the Juggernaut, the Faceless, the Maestro 'd, the Solace, the Quarantine.

fiery_valkyrie
Mar 26, 2003

I'm proud of you, Bender. Sure, you lost. You lost bad. But the important thing is I beat up someone who hurt my feelings in high school.

Captain Foo posted:

My general thoughts, though you can see my running thought process in the mod doc:

Either I didn't allot myself enough time to run updates, or the game was too complicated; I botched a lot of important things.
Though flavorful, I think there were too many masonries and it took away from in-thread discussion.
Despite that, I was a bit disappointed in the overall lack of posting in the latter half of the game.

I think the masonries was the one thing that unbalanced it as well. There was no uninformed majority. However I still had fun.

Meinberg
Oct 9, 2011


Captain Foo posted:

Also: I would like to run a version of this at some point in the future, but I don't know how well it would work as an open setup. Thoughts? I've also thought about writing some of the Limited Edition playbooks into roles; the Touchstone, the Juggernaut, the Faceless, the Maestro 'd, the Solace, the Quarantine.

Gotta bring in the Marmoset.

Jedit
Dec 10, 2011

Proudly supporting vanilla legends 1994-2014



Hal Incandenza posted:

Sorry Jedit, I guess we could have let you win after all... just had to be sure.

Actually I was lying about that. When I said I would win if at the end of the game everyone left was one of my masons, I didn't tell you that having everyone in my masonry would trigger the end of the game. It was still true that I could win with either Town or Scum, but I'd only win with Town if the last Scum to die was the last person not in my masonry. (I was also lying when I said I could die and still win, but that was necessary to stop Town killing me.)

That last is why I was so pissed off with my role. I was literally a Survivor who wouldn't win even if he did survive except in very specific circumstances. Being a Mason Recruiter made me an instant target for the Scum, but I couldn't hide it from them because I needed to recruit them to win. At the same time I needed to drag the game out in order to have the time I needed to recruit everyone, but anything I did to achieve that would make me look suspicious - and if I drew an investigation my immunity would practically ensure my lynch. The combination made it very nearly impossible for me to win.

E: As it happens, had there been a no lynch on the day you killed me I had planned to recruit Meinberg. I knew Grandi was the last scum by that point - with me going to -1 on Day 1 the lack of a hammer should have hinted that all the scum were already on me - so unless he killed me we would have had the joint victory.

Jedit fucked around with this message at 00:31 on Sep 21, 2014

fiery_valkyrie
Mar 26, 2003

I'm proud of you, Bender. Sure, you lost. You lost bad. But the important thing is I beat up someone who hurt my feelings in high school.

I just read the mod doc. So it was my night action that got screwed up on N1. I did wonder if it was mine.

Captain Foo
May 11, 2004

we vibin'
we slidin'
we breathin'
we dyin'


fiery_valkyrie posted:

I just read the mod doc. So it was my night action that got screwed up on N1. I did wonder if it was mine.

Yeah, I hosed that up big. Just ran Hypnotic completely backwards, and against the ##drive of all things.

fiery_valkyrie
Mar 26, 2003

I'm proud of you, Bender. Sure, you lost. You lost bad. But the important thing is I beat up someone who hurt my feelings in high school.

Scum doc

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1IwUiGnT3yuiCrvyl0WAIQbuTpz4-zN_hU5LCply5oO4/

Grandi was wanting to use his vig on me right from the start, but I dont think it worked out that well.

Grandicap
Feb 8, 2006



It would have worked if everyone hadn't been cleared by night actions.

That is always the problem with role madness games, it it devolves into a logic puzzle, especially when I felt I played so well.

Darn, thanks for the game foo.

F_V I do not regret shooting you, I've always wanted to be a scum vig and kill my scumbuddy. But you were a good scum buddy, A++, would scum again.

Somberbrero
Feb 14, 2009

The Pit Awaits


Hey! Good job town. It was frustrating to watch the posting die off, but that was largely my fault. Sorry MMM!

Foo, I am a huge fan of what you've put together here. There's a ton of thought and effort put into this design and I loved what randomized roles meant for scrumhunting. I really, really enjoyed the flavor as well. Portraits were owny too.

I know this was maybe too weird for some people to begin with, but I think this might almost work better as a lights-out no-flip setup!

Captain Foo
May 11, 2004

we vibin'
we slidin'
we breathin'
we dyin'


Somberbrero posted:

Hey! Good job town. It was frustrating to watch the posting die off, but that was largely my fault. Sorry MMM!

Foo, I am a huge fan of what you've put together here. There's a ton of thought and effort put into this design and I loved what randomized roles meant for scrumhunting. I really, really enjoyed the flavor as well. Portraits were owny too.

I know this was maybe too weird for some people to begin with, but I think this might almost work better as a lights-out no-flip setup!

I'm willing to talk about refining the game with people, I know Meinberg has had some input. I'd definitely like to run a version of it again. My big question is would it work as an open-setup game or does it need to remain closed?

Meinberg
Oct 9, 2011


Captain Foo posted:

I'm willing to talk about refining the game with people, I know Meinberg has had some input. I'd definitely like to run a version of it again. My big question is would it work as an open-setup game or does it need to remain closed?

Well, towards the end there it was fairly close to open setup. We just didn't know who the godfather was. If you randomize cop sanity to some degree, then I think it could be open.

Captain Foo
May 11, 2004

we vibin'
we slidin'
we breathin'
we dyin'


Meinberg posted:

Well, towards the end there it was fairly close to open setup. We just didn't know who the godfather was. If you randomize cop sanity to some degree, then I think it could be open.

Yeah, I'm thinking of stuff like the details of the Hocus' wincon; the fact that ##playbookcop becomes much more useful once the Moves are known, the fact that the Angel is confirmed town...

Somberbrero
Feb 14, 2009

The Pit Awaits


also, haha I sent this to grandi.


quote:

Somberbrero wrote on Sep 8, 2014 19:14:
I really hope you're not a godfather, because otherwise I'm handing you the game. Here's what I know.

I investigated you night 0 and got a town result. Each night I have a 50% chance of being hated the next day(-1 to lynch), 25% chance of getting to investigate one of my gang, and a 25% chance to get an extra anonymous vote.

Meinberg told me his role. I think we can trust him. I told him that I investigated you and we both lived through the night.

I got recruited to a mason group with Juanito and Hal. Juanito says he got a town result on Hal n0, I think it's breadcrumbed somewhere. Juanito's investigation on me failed last night though

We know that Jedit wasn't the target of a nightkill.

So, it seems then at this point we can eliminate the following players as scum, or at least cross them off as good ideas for today.

Myself
Yourself
Hal
Juanito
Meinberg
Jedit
Winson(kinda, might be able to investigate him and he admitted to driving the kill?)

Any thoughts on whether or not we should go public with this information?

Captain Foo posted:

I'm willing to talk about refining the game with people, I know Meinberg has had some input. I'd definitely like to run a version of it again. My big question is would it work as an open-setup game or does it need to remain closed?

I think you could run this as an open setup. There are a couple ways you could play it. A partial-flip game where you only show a player's role but not their alignment would be a lot of fun, you would still have to alter the Hocus but that's not a big deal. I honestly think that Angel should be randomized too, Scum having a doctor means that Town doesn't have a doctor, which is huge.

The optimal solution would probably be to have more roles than players, and you could randomly determine which roles were in play at the start of the game. That way the players know what is possible but still have to play mafia. That's a fair amount of work though.

Captain Foo
May 11, 2004

we vibin'
we slidin'
we breathin'
we dyin'


Somberbrero posted:

The optimal solution would probably be to have more roles than players, and you could randomly determine which roles were in play at the start of the game. That way the players know what is possible but still have to play mafia. That's a fair amount of work though.

I'm thinking of doing this as the solution. Re-work the Hocus and Hardholder a bit; write 4-5 new roles, and mix-and-match with the roles being made public in the OP. When I was writing the roles, I had the most difficulty with the Hardholder and the Savvyhead. I'm intrigued by partial-flip, and I'd like a way to differentiate between the Operator and Angel's ##investigate and the Brainer's ##scan.

Captain Foo
May 11, 2004

we vibin'
we slidin'
we breathin'
we dyin'


Jedit, you definitely had some serious complaints about the Hocus role. Any ideas on how to improve it while still maintaining an interesting mechanic?

Jedit
Dec 10, 2011

Proudly supporting vanilla legends 1994-2014



Captain Foo posted:

Jedit, you definitely had some serious complaints about the Hocus role. Any ideas on how to improve it while still maintaining an interesting mechanic?

It would have worked better if there had been no Survivor win condition, for a start. It should have been purely about Maelstrom-worshippers, not about the Hocus. This would not only make it easier to win, it would also be thematic.

You also apparently boned it somewhat with the flavour - Winson initially assumed I was a bad guy because it was described as me abducting him. If I hadn't been able to talk him out of it I would have been lynched Day 2 for attempting to win.

If I were to do a similar role, I would make the win condition to be recruiting every living player with access to OOTC - that is, the Hardholder's masonry and the scum team. I would also make it a reverse masonry; that is, people so recruited lose the ability to speak in their own docs (though they can still read them).

Captain Foo
May 11, 2004

we vibin'
we slidin'
we breathin'
we dyin'


Point 1: if I'm reading you correctly, you're saying the win condition should be "If at any point all alive players are in the Hocus masonry, the Hocus wins whether alive or dead"?

Point 2:

My PM to Winson posted:

Jedit has recruited you into his gang! You may talk to him here or by any other method you choose

Point 3:
well, that's a clarification to point 1. Interesting!

Thanks for your input, and I'm sorry you were frustrated with the role.

Captain Foo
May 11, 2004

we vibin'
we slidin'
we breathin'
we dyin'


Thought: Only the Chopper's gang is a true masonry. The Hocus could anonymously message followers at night, and the Hardholder could non-anonymously message their lieutenants.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Jedit
Dec 10, 2011

Proudly supporting vanilla legends 1994-2014



Captain Foo posted:

Point 1: if I'm reading you correctly, you're saying the win condition should be "If at any point all alive players are in the Hocus masonry, the Hocus wins whether alive or dead"?

Yes. Really the Hocus doesn't care about living or dying, so long as everyone gets the message.

  • Locked thread