Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us $3,400 per month for bandwidth bills alone, and since we don't believe in shoving popup ads to our registered users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
«20 »
  • Locked thread
computer parts
Nov 18, 2010

PLEASE CLAP

Big Mean Jerk posted:

All of the timber supports in this construction are the wrong shade of cherry and some of the nails aren't in the boards right now, it must be a terrible building!

More accurate.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Android Blues
Nov 22, 2008



Big Mean Jerk posted:

Why are people in this thread so quick to shout down criticism?

I think people are rightly dubious of criticism coming from people along the lines of, "Well, I read the leaked script and watched the unfinished workprint, and let me tell you, this is not a complete episode of television!".

HD DAD
Jan 13, 2010

Generic white guy.

Toilet Rascal

Big Mean Jerk posted:

All of the timber supports in this construction are rotten and some of the nails aren't the right size, but I'm sure it'll make a fine building!

I can see what you're trying to get at, but I'm going to argue art, especially visual mediums, become a lot more than the sum of its parts when completed. It's all about how the different parts work in the proper context of one another. Kind of how like a score can completely change the meaning and mood of a scene. A lot of the individual element aren't meant to be seen outside of production, and are usually quite poo poo (I work in production, you'd be surprised at how much total crap gets turned in and polished into something presentable. It's impressive).

At least, that's how I feel. I felt it came together nicely, but everyone takes away something different.

marktheando
Nov 4, 2006



Android Blues posted:

I think people are rightly dubious of criticism coming from people along the lines of, "Well, I read the leaked script and watched the unfinished workprint, and let me tell you, this is not a complete episode of television!".

It's true that a terrible script can turn into a decently entertaining episode. But I don't think a terrible script can ever make a great episode.

I read the opening scene of Deep Breath and it was terrible. Watching it on screen and it was also terrible, as were the Vastra and crew scenes (so most of the episode).

Though to be fair this episode was entertaining nonsense, while hearing about scenes like the spoon duel out of context did make it sound worse than it was.

AndyElusive
Jan 7, 2007



What is 12 working out on those chalk boards at the start of the episode? I read it mentioned that he's still formulating the way to save Gallifrey in the pocket dimension but didn't he work it out by the time of his 11th incarnation? I guess the whole actual saving of Gallifrey still kind of confuses me.

marktheando
Nov 4, 2006



AndyElusive posted:

What is 12 working out on those chalk boards at the start of the episode? I read it mentioned that he's still formulating the way to save Gallifrey in the pocket dimension but didn't he work it out by the time of his 11th incarnation? I guess the whole actual saving of Gallifrey still kind of confuses me.

It's saved, but he still needs to find a way to find it, and pull it back into this universe.

Slowpoke!
Feb 12, 2008

ANIME IS FOR ADULTS


I happen to like episodes where the Doctor meets a famous person from history, fights with some throwaway villain and has fun. The Van Gogh, Shakespeare and Charles Dickens episodes all stand out as ones I can recall clearly, compared to some of the other one-off episodes. They aren't always great (though the Madame de Pompadour episode was fantastic), but it's always entertaining to see the Doctor interact with a legendary person.

Android Blues
Nov 22, 2008



He's been working on chalkboards all season, and I think it's a really good way to do a "season arc" kind of thing subtly. It's definitely building up to something, but it doesn't dominate the episodes it's in or create a sense of manufactured mystery.

Capaldi's really fantastic as the Doctor, incidentally. I love...I guess the way to describe it is, if this had been a Tennant episode, he probably would have been right way more often and screwed up way less. Making him smart, cynical, charismatic and comically fallible is a really good approach and lets Clara shine by being the goal-oriented voice of reason.

Plavski
Feb 1, 2006

I could be a revolutionary


You could really tell Gatiss just loved writing Capaldi too. He loves writing Sherlock-esque snark and know it can be pulled off by the actor. For Big Finish people, you should really listen to Phantasmagoria if you haven't already; I think it's one of Gatiss' finest Who contributions.

AndyElusive
Jan 7, 2007



marktheando posted:

It's saved, but he still needs to find a way to find it, and pull it back into this universe.

Ah that makes sense then. I suppose he can't just leave it floating around in there without bringing it back.

Regarding this episode, I can only echo whats been mentioned by claiming I wasn't expecting much from it this week and it pulled through really well. That archery contest was the highlight for me.

I was also fond of the call backs to the 3rd Doctor with the fencing and the Venusian Aikido chop to disarm Robin Hood in order to be captured.

Edit: and oh god how could I forget the "I think you'll find I have a certain GENETIC ADVANTAGE" line during the Who Can Die Slower argument. "It definitely would be me though, wouldn't it?"

AndyElusive fucked around with this message at Sep 7, 2014 around 16:46

Big Mean Jerk
Jan 27, 2009

MENTALLY
DEFEATED


Grimey Drawer

FWIW, I found the episode dumb but fun. The spoon bit was the only part I really hated.

Hollismason
Jun 30, 2007


I really enjoyed this episode, it had just the right amount of humour and sillyness that you'd expect from the Doctor, but also had him be a great foil.
I love that they've turned the tables and Clara is in fact the voice of reason. Really like Clara as a companion who is in some ways smarter than the Doctor.
I loved at the end when the Doctor is like " Well obviously he's a robot, no wait yeah that's a rubbish plan. But I wasright about the TREES!!"I loved that there was a spoon versus sword fight and the call backs to a more physical doctor, also his judo chop. I thought it was a great episode and the banter between Robin Hood and the Doctor was great.


I really think this episode is where we fully get to see Capaldi's Doctor, it's been three episodes he's had the previous two to kind of flesh out a bit, and now we're seeing the actual Capaldi Doctor.

Him being a bit childish in nature, but old in appearance is a great thing to do. Matt Smith and others kind of played him as a silly guy but with the weight of the centuries and being young. Capaldi plays him as a guy who doesn't have the weight of centuries on him but truly young at heart which is great.

Hollismason fucked around with this message at Sep 7, 2014 around 16:51

Myrddin_Emrys
Mar 27, 2007

by Lowtax


I have just re-watched Robot of Sherwood and I have finally found out what it is I don't like about the new Doctor. And that is Peter Capaldi.

He is not the Doctor. I don't relate to him as the Doctor. He doesn't act like the Doctor. He is not the Doctor. There is nothing Doctorish about him in any sense shape or form.

This distresses me considerabley because I have loved all the Doctors since NuWho, and enjoy even really lovely episodes (fear hear I liked, Love and Monstors I DID NOT).

I really dislike Doctor 12 so much, and its not through want of trying. There is nothing I like about this series and out of five of us in my family who are avid Who fans, there is only one who actually likes Doctor 12. I wonder if that's a statistic where viewing audiences are concerned. 1 in 5 who likes him can equate to 4 out of 5 who no longer watches.

And I will watch things that are enjoyable, not out of a life long obsession induced fan loyalty.

Myrddin_Emrys fucked around with this message at Sep 7, 2014 around 17:02

PriorMarcus
Oct 16, 2008

ASK ME ABOUT BEING ALLERGIC TO POSITIVITY


You're a very brave poster.

thexerox123
Aug 17, 2007



Myrddin_Emrys posted:

He is not the Doctor. I don't relate to him as the Doctor. He doesn't act like the Doctor. He is not the Doctor. There is nothing Doctorish about him in any sense shape or form.
...
This distresses me considerabley because I have loved all the Doctors since NuWho

Out of the 12 Doctors, how many have you watched?

Noxville
Dec 7, 2003



I guess I hate fun because I thought this was absolute bobbins. At least Ben Miller was enjoying himself.

I liked Capaldi in the first couple of episodes but he was unbelievably one-note 'grumpy old man' here.

Myrddin_Emrys
Mar 27, 2007

by Lowtax


thexerox123 posted:

Out of the 12 Doctors, how many have you watched?

Im 42, ive watched Who since Pertwee, whats your point?

PriorMarcus
Oct 16, 2008

ASK ME ABOUT BEING ALLERGIC TO POSITIVITY


thexerox123 posted:

Out of the 12 Doctors, how many have you watched?

Why does that matter? He's not going to go and watch the first 40 years to appreciate Capaldi and he shouldn't have to.

Myrddin_Emrys
Mar 27, 2007

by Lowtax


PriorMarcus posted:

Why does that matter? He's not going to go and watch the first 40 years to appreciate Capaldi and he shouldn't have to.

I think its a valid question. Im a life long fan, but I don't enjoy Capaldi, I don't know why, but I just cant connect to him like I have the others.

thexerox123
Aug 17, 2007



PriorMarcus posted:

Why does that matter? He's not going to go and watch the first 40 years to appreciate Capaldi and he shouldn't have to.

Just in terms of the "He is not the Doctor. He does not act like the Doctor."

Because a lot of the classic Doctors are not at all like any of the newer Doctors.

AndyElusive
Jan 7, 2007



This happens with the audience after every regeneration, right? The audience goes through this really crazy shift because the main character goes through it as well. Doctor Who never seemed like a show that doesn't mind losing a portion of its audience due to a new actor taking over the protagonist because it has always gained new ones as well as maintaining their core fans.

AndyElusive fucked around with this message at Sep 7, 2014 around 17:09

marktheando
Nov 4, 2006



AndyElusive posted:

This happens with the audience after every regeneration, right? The audience goes through this really crazy shift because the main character goes through it as well. Doctor Who never seemed like a show that doesn't mind losing a portion of its audience due to a new actor taking over the protagonist because it has always gained new ones as well as maintaining their core fans.

Well it doesn't always gain new ones, I'm pretty sure the viewership is down since the David Tennant era.

And Colin Baker and McCoy didn't attract many new viewers.

Myrddin_Emrys
Mar 27, 2007

by Lowtax


AndyElusive posted:

This happens with the audience after every regeneration, right? The audience goes through this really crazy shift because the main character goes through it as well. Doctor Who never seemed like a show that doesn't mind losing a portion of its audience due to a new actor taking over the protagonist because it has always gained new ones as well as maintaining their core fans.

This is what bothers me.
I took to 9 as a new Doctor who has history we have yet to learn. I took to 10 at a time when I thought 9 had so more more to give us, more stories to tell. I took to 11 immediately and became the ultimate Doctor to me when I thought I would absolutely hate the guy. 12. Well 12 I don't know. Its like Capaldi isn't even trying to act like the Doctor, he just playing some guy with a magic box who happens to be called the Doctor. Its not working for me.

marktheando
Nov 4, 2006



Myrddin_Emrys posted:

This is what bothers me.
I took to 9 as a new Doctor who has history we have yet to learn. I took to 10 at a time when I thought 9 had so more more to give us, more stories to tell. I took to 11 immediately and became the ultimate Doctor to me when I thought I would absolutely hate the guy. 12. Well 12 I don't know. Its like Capaldi isn't even trying to act like the Doctor, he just playing some guy with a magic box who happens to be called the Doctor. Its not working for me.

In what way is he not acting like the Doctor? Could you be specific?

Myrddin_Emrys
Mar 27, 2007

by Lowtax


marktheando posted:

In what way is he not acting like the Doctor? Could you be specific?

Actually no I cannot. He just does not work for me, isn't that enough?

SiKboy
Oct 28, 2007
Simaggeddon



marktheando posted:

Well it doesn't always gain new ones, I'm pretty sure the viewership is down since the David Tennant era.

And Colin Baker and McCoy didn't attract many new viewers.

It does gain new fans, but the number gained will not always equal the number lost. Its a family show, designed to be watched by a broad audience including a lot of children. The nature of a long running show aimed at that audience is such that it will always be gaining and losing viewers as children start watching it or decide that they have grown out of it.

kant
May 12, 2003


Myrddin_Emrys posted:

Im 42, ive watched Who since Pertwee, whats your point?

I think the point was that Capaldi's doctor has been compared quite a bit to the 1st and 3rd. You made a statement that there's nothing doctor like about him so it's helpful to know what you're comparing against.

Chokes McGee
Aug 7, 2008

A Good Day to
ACTION DUCK


Episode owned. Fairly certain the negative posters are Dalek clones sent to spread discord, because as we all know, Daleks hate fun.

Jerusalem posted:

At the end of the first episode he lands in Glasgow instead of London, walks away to get Clara coffee and shows up three weeks later at her school.

When has the Doctor ever been able to hit his target the vast majority of the time, though? Like, One had issues because he was still fairly young, but by Eleven and Amy you'd think he'd finally know how it works. Even if you take the TARDIS interrupting his various journeys so he can help people, he still has a tendency to miss by a few weeks/months, because what are a few weeks/months when you've lived thousands of years?

SimplyCosmic posted:

I, for one, am still shocked that they managed to not only to convince Anthony Ainley to come back from the dead to play the Sheriff, but also took the time to update the Xeraphin central chamber set from Timeflight.

"Perhaps, Doctor, it is the rich that will steal... from you. Mwa ha. MWA ha ha."

marktheando
Nov 4, 2006



Myrddin_Emrys posted:

Actually no I cannot. He just does not work for me, isn't that enough?

Well you can like or dislike whatever you want. But it doesn't really make for interesting discussion if you can't give a reason.

thexerox123
Aug 17, 2007



Chokes McGee posted:

When has the Doctor ever been able to hit his target the vast majority of the time, though? Like, One had issues because he was still fairly young, but by Eleven and Amy you'd think he'd finally know how it works. Even if you take the TARDIS interrupting his various journeys so he can help people, he still has a tendency to miss by a few weeks/months, because what are a few weeks/months when you've lived thousands of years?

It also doesn't help that the TARDIS is supposed to have six pilots instead of just one.

AndyElusive
Jan 7, 2007



Myrddin_Emrys posted:

Actually no I cannot. He just does not work for me, isn't that enough?

Try not to get too annoyed if people who do enjoy Capaldi want to understand your point of view more, if just for the sake of discussion.

For me it's appealing because he DOESN'T feel 100% like any of his recent incarnations. I don't get the feeling that he's really THE DOCTOR we've grown to understand and know. We're learning about a NEW Doctor. There's sparks of past selves in there, but it's clear this is a very different man, thrust into the role that's been carved out by his previous selves and is a bit annoyed and very cross about it.

Myrddin_Emrys
Mar 27, 2007

by Lowtax


marktheando posted:

Well you can like or dislike whatever you want. But it doesn't really make for interesting discussion if you can't give a reason.

I just don't want go through pages of 'your obviously not a real fan' 'your opinion sucks' 'you don't know what your talking about' 'I actually really hate him too but im so biased I will convince myself hes loving great' type arguments. I don't like him, he doesn't work for me, surely this is enough.

Im so sorry Whovians but you do have to admit that Capaldi is a bit poo poo.

EDIT

AndyElusive posted:

Try not to get too annoyed if people who do enjoy Capaldi want to understand your point of view more, if just for the sake of discussion.

Please don't confuse my irritation with being irritated at forum posters. Im irritated with myself because I am such a huge Who fan for so many years of my life, and I am suddenly faced with an internal rejection of something I have always immensely enjoyed. Its not a pleasant feeling.

Myrddin_Emrys fucked around with this message at Sep 7, 2014 around 17:27

thexerox123
Aug 17, 2007



Myrddin_Emrys posted:

Im so sorry Whovians but you do have to admit that Capaldi is a bit poo poo.

Uhhh, no, no we don't. I personally love him and already know that he's going to be among my favourite Doctors.

computer parts
Nov 18, 2010

PLEASE CLAP

Myrddin_Emrys posted:


Im so sorry Whovians but you do have to admit that Capaldi is a bit poo poo.

Not compared to at least any of the past 3 Doctors.

jng2058
Jul 17, 2010

Power Gamer for Hire


Myrddin_Emrys posted:

I just don't want go through pages of 'your obviously not a real fan' 'your opinion sucks' 'you don't know what your talking about' 'I actually really hate him too but im so biased I will convince myself hes loving great' type arguments. I don't like him, he doesn't work for me, surely this is enough.

Im so sorry Whovians but you do have to admit that Capaldi is a bit poo poo.

Why? If you can't explain why you dislike him, what compels me to agree with your "argument"?

I like Capaldi quite a bit, and if you can't be arsed to explain why I shouldn't, your just stomping your feet and saying "I don't like him and you shouldn't either" is stupid at best, trollish at worst.


e:sp

jng2058 fucked around with this message at Sep 7, 2014 around 17:38

PriorMarcus
Oct 16, 2008

ASK ME ABOUT BEING ALLERGIC TO POSITIVITY


I think right now, three episodes in, that the problem is that Capaldi is playing HIS version of the Doctor, rather than THE Doctor as written. It's why the scripts read like poo poo. Hopefully soon the writing will catch up with his interpretation and vice versa so that things will level out.

I'm still hoping they stop giving him lots of action to do, watching Capaldi begin a spoon fight only to cut to a long shot of a bad stunt double is loving horrible, and its even worse when he's trying to rush prisoners out of the dungeon only to awkwardly shuffle after them at a shuffle.

KOGAHAZAN!!
Apr 29, 2013

a miserable failure as a person

an incredible success as a magical murder spider



PriorMarcus posted:

You're a very brave poster.

You know, my mother phoned me up last week to say the exact same thing. Which was strange, but okay: I think I can see where they're coming from. I see less continuity of character here than in either of the other NuWho regenerations, and I think people are going to have a correspondingly more difficult time adjusting.

It's not helping that Capaldi doesn't seem to be getting a whole lot of "Why is there never a big red button" lines (that's the line that really sold Hurt as the Doctor to me).

marktheando posted:

I'm pretty sure the viewership is down since the David Tennant era.

LET ME TELL YOU ABOUT GRAPHS.

PriorMarcus posted:

I'm still hoping they stop giving him lots of action to do, watching Capaldi begin a spoon fight only to cut to a long shot of a bad stunt double is loving horrible, and its even worse when he's trying to rush prisoners out of the dungeon only to awkwardly shuffle after them at a shuffle.

Oh, there was a stunt double?

I never notice this stuff.

Diabolik900
Mar 28, 2007



Fun Shoe

Myrddin_Emrys posted:

He is not the Doctor. I don't relate to him as
I really dislike Doctor 12 so much, and its not through want of trying. There is nothing I like about this series and out of five of us in my family who are avid Who fans, there is only one who actually likes Doctor 12. I wonder if that's a statistic where viewing audiences are concerned. 1 in 5 who likes him can equate to 4 out of 5 who no longer watches.

I'm not going to try argue you into liking him, because that would be stupid, but I highly doubt your family's opinions of Capaldi's performance are representative of all fans. Just look at this thread. Even the people who haven't liked the episodes have mostly been positive about Capaldi. I'm not sure this thread is really a representative sample either, but it's probably better than one guy's family.

Myrddin_Emrys
Mar 27, 2007

by Lowtax


jng2058 posted:

Why? If you can't explain why you dislike him, what compels me to agree with you "argument"?

I don't want you to agree with my argument, im just telling you how I feel. If you enjoy Capaldis Doctor then that's brilliant. You obviously have seen something in him that I have yet to see and wish I could. I don't want you to change your opinion, im just telling you mine.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

DoctorWhat
Nov 18, 2011

Someone call the Chancellery Guard. Commander Maxil's out of uniform. AGAIN.

DJ Ramshackle posted:

Overall, Spare Parts was a brilliant introduction to Big Finish and audiobooks in general for me and I look forward to the next one. Just need to figure out which one...

JUBILEE jubilee Jubilee Jubilee jubilee JUBILEE

Actually, go for The Marian Conspiracy first, THEN JUBILEE

  • Locked thread
«20 »