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Diabolik900 posted:I'm not going to try argue you into liking him, because that would be stupid, but I highly doubt your family's opinions of Capaldi's performance are representative of all fans. Just look at this thread. Even the people who haven't liked the episodes have mostly been positive about Capaldi. I'm not sure this thread is really a representative sample either, but it's probably better than one guy's family. All of my friends that watch Who actually love Capaldi, so clearly love for Capaldi is unanimous across all fans. thexerox123 fucked around with this message at 18:35 on Sep 7, 2014 |
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Sep 7, 2014 18:33
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I'm suddenly reminded, during my first viewing of Robots of Sherwood a friend popped by since he was in the neighborhood. From what I understand he's a casual fan of Doctor Who but at least enough of one to weigh in with both positive and negative opinions on the show My first comment to him was how much I dig the new Doctor. His reply? "Well, yeah! I love Capaldi! He's leaps and bounds better than that goofy as poo poo Shriner, Matt Smith!" Not wanting to get into it with him since I liked the 11th Doctor a lot, I just let him have his say and carried on with another topic. But it just blows me away that someone that likes this show could have such vitriol towards one of the best incarnations of the Doctor, both the character itself AND the actor rubbed him the wrong way. I guess my point is, you can still enjoy the show even if you don't like The Doctor.
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Sep 7, 2014 18:35
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Matt Smith will forever be the Doctor that was the biggest missed opportunity.
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Sep 7, 2014 18:37
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PriorMarcus posted:Matt Smith will forever be the Doctor that was the biggest missed opportunity. Fortunately, Matt's young enough that he'll be able to do Big Finish for like 40 years to make up for it. Or at least until his voice finally drops.
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Sep 7, 2014 18:38
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AndyElusive posted:...I guess my point is, you can still enjoy the show even if you don't like The Doctor. I guess that's why opinions are like having a poo poo. Everyone elses stink except yours. And to be honest, ive hated 2 out of the three episodes so far. Into the Dalek was quite enjoyable but the other two were complete loving tripe, so make that vitriol towards not only the character, the actor, make it the show too!  this is why im upsetPriorMarcus posted:Matt Smith will forever be the Doctor that was the biggest missed opportunity. Matt Smiths Doctor I feel went downhill as soon as Amy and Rory disappeared and Clara the One Dimensional Girl came aboard. Myrddin_Emrys fucked around with this message at 18:43 on Sep 7, 2014 |
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Sep 7, 2014 18:39
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Myrddin_Emrys posted:I don't want you to agree with my argument, im just telling you how I feel. If you enjoy Capaldis Doctor then that's brilliant. You obviously have seen something in him that I have yet to see and wish I could. I don't want you to change your opinion, im just telling you mine. Which I had no problem with until you said... Myrddin_Emrys posted:Im so sorry Whovians but you do have to admit that Capaldi is a bit poo poo. Because I don't have to admit that. At all. Because I don't agree with it. At all.  And telling me that I do is as annoying to me as anyone else would be telling you how to feel. So if you want to vent about not liking Twelve as played by Peter Capaldi? Cool. Not everyone's going to like everything. I get that. But don't presume to tell me that your opinion reflects some kind of universal truth that the rest of us are compelled to agree with.
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Sep 7, 2014 18:45
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jng2058 posted:Which I had no problem with until you said... Im so sorry your so thin skinned.
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Sep 7, 2014 18:51
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It's perfectly fine to say "I don't like him" but "you have to admit he's poo poo" is just asking for a bickerfest.Noxville posted:I guess I hate fun because I thought this was absolute bobbins. At least Ben Miller was enjoying himself.
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Sep 7, 2014 18:51
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Capaldi isn't the Doctor for me yet. I don't think it's his fault, he's doing a fine job, but he's such a powerful and pivotal presence in The Thick of It/In The Loop that I can't stop seeing him as 'Peter Capaldi, actor, is The Doctor'. With Matt Smith I literally had no idea who he was so when he came in and completely owned every aspect of the role, I felt like he was the Doctor. I think it was J-Ru that suggested Matt Smith was a false identity for the BBC to cover up that they had hired the actual Doctor as a cost saving measure. I imagine this is how it felt to people when Tom Baker, who was the Doctor, was replaced by the guy from All Creatures Great and Small.
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Sep 7, 2014 18:51
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Psybro posted:I imagine this is how it felt to people when Tom Baker, who was the Doctor, was replaced by the guy from All Creatures Great and Small. Forgive me if im wrong here, but I thought All Creatures Great and Small was years after he was the Doctor.
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Sep 7, 2014 18:53
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Myrddin_Emrys posted:Im so sorry Whovians but you do have to admit that Capaldi is a bit poo poo. Myrddin_Emrys posted:I don't want you to agree with my argument, im just telling you how I feel. If you enjoy Capaldis Doctor then that's brilliant. You obviously have seen something in him that I have yet to see and wish I could. I don't want you to change your opinion, im just telling you mine. Well, which is it?
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Sep 7, 2014 18:54
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Myrddin_Emrys posted:Im so sorry your so thin skinned. I'm sorry you can't articulate. 
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Sep 7, 2014 18:54
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Myrddin_Emrys posted:Forgive me if im wrong here, but I thought All Creatures Great and Small was years after he was the Doctor. Looks like he started on All creatures in 1978. I think JNT worked on that show first as well, and that's why he wanted to hire Davison as the doctor. I may be making this up.
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Sep 7, 2014 18:57
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jng2058 posted:I'm sorry you can't articulate. This must be whats its like if I said Captain Janeway was the best Captian in a Star Trek forum.
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Sep 7, 2014 18:57
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Myrddin_Emrys posted:
Matt Smith is my favourite Doctor (and Capaldi right behind him), but I agree. Clara and he never really worked well (since they gave her zero personality). However she works well with 12 (because they gave her a personality).
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Sep 7, 2014 19:00
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Decius posted:Matt Smith is my favourite Doctor (and Capaldi right behind him), but I agree. Clara and he never really worked well (since they gave her zero personality). However she works well with 12 (because they gave her a personality). Unfortunately the Doctor has no personality now, except 'angry old man'. Matt Smith was great because with every episode I knew there was a chance of great acting, where we would go through a roller coaster of emotion acting. A very old man in a young mans body was unbelievably well acted by Smith. In nearly all of his run he would go through a myriad of emotions and proved himself to be a quality actor. Yeah there were some stinkers, but my god if the scene called for emotion, Smith delivered. Capaldi is just a one dimensional grumpy old man. He is just a blank face with an intense glare and brooding eyebrows. And so far that's all he has acted. Doctor 12 is emotionless apart from angry and irritable, and I though he got over that when he was Doctor 9.
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Sep 7, 2014 19:06
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Myrddin_Emrys posted:
Eleven went downhill after the third sendoff of Amy & Rory. Myrddin_Emrys posted:Capaldi is just a one dimensional grumpy old man. He is just a blank face with an intense glare and brooding eyebrows. And so far that's all he has acted. Doctor 12 is emotionless apart from angry and irritable, and I though he got over that when he was Doctor 9. His main arc in Into the Dalek is that of a depressed person, not grumpy and old.
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Sep 7, 2014 19:06
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computer parts posted:Eleven went downhill after the third sendoff of Amy & Rory. Actually he went downhill the after Amy dreamt him back into existence. Maybe she brought him back broken and a bit poo poo.
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Sep 7, 2014 19:08
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Day of the Moon was the real moment it all started falling to pieces.
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Sep 7, 2014 19:09
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I remember there was some talk in the threads for the second half of Season Seven that, despite Clara being a weak character right now, a few people hoped she'd stay on for the next Doctor and maybe gel better with him. At the time, I disagreed. I thought she was such a void of personality opposite Smith that I didn't see how she could be any better just from a change of Doctors. I was totally wrong, though! Clara is fantastic in this season, works really well against Capaldi, and is swiftly on the track to becoming one of my favourite companions. She's Donna-esque, a companion that challenges the Doctor, isn't afraid to call him out, and often sees things more clearly than him. I think she has the potential to be better than Donna, though. I also like how her real life and her job are a relevant thing in her personality and dialogue - it makes her seem even more her own person rather than just a foil to the Doctor, like the worse companions can be.
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Sep 7, 2014 19:11
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Astroman posted:I also bet that if people who hadn't seen the episodes had just read scripts of any number of 10 or 11 stories, even ones that are considered beloved today by the majority, they'd have been bashing them to high heaven. or at least they should be self aware about it and know they're just learning.
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Sep 7, 2014 19:12
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marktheando posted:Day of the Moon was the real moment it all started falling to pieces. This is true. The Christmas Carol (?) was amazing.
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Sep 7, 2014 19:14
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Cerv posted:yeah, people who don't know how to read screenplays should probably not pick them up and start trying to pass judgements The scripts are pretty bad though.
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Sep 7, 2014 19:15
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I pretty much hated this episode. Come at mePriorMarcus posted:Matt Smith will forever be the Doctor that was the biggest missed opportunity. This is very, very true. Psybro posted:Capaldi isn't the Doctor for me yet. I don't think it's his fault, he's doing a fine job, but he's such a powerful and pivotal presence in The Thick of It/In The Loop that I can't stop seeing him as 'Peter Capaldi, actor, is The Doctor'. This is exactly how I feel also, thanks for expressing it so well.
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Sep 7, 2014 19:17
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PriorMarcus posted:This is true. The Christmas Carol (?) was amazing. I didn't like it that much. But yeah it wasn't awful like almost all Moffat episodes since then (the 50th and a bunch of episodes not written by Moffat were good though).
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Sep 7, 2014 19:17
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A script is only one component of a film production, and there's so much more that goes into it that it's an unlikely prospect to accurately judge what the finished product will be like by the script alone. Especially since lines are often cut and added even very late into production! What is said (roughly) and the progression of the plot are decided by the script, but the same script can be translated a multitude of different ways into a finished product depending on the decisions of directors, actors, editors, producers &c. Professing to judge the quality of an episode by the script is like saying, "I know the am-dram production of Hamlet tonight is going to be amazing, have you read the script?"
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Sep 7, 2014 19:21
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PriorMarcus posted:The scripts are pretty bad though. maybe but when people repeatedly say "this scene in the screenplay is awful but when filmed exactly as scripted it was great" the penny should drop that they're reading it wrong & making unfair judgements. Cerv fucked around with this message at 19:23 on Sep 7, 2014 |
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Sep 7, 2014 19:21
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Clara was better in this episode, much as I have been slagging her off of late. I was a big fan of the lines "Why are you laughing all the time, I mean are you all simple?" and "Nottingham is not enough. Next Derby. Then Lincoln. Then..." "Worksop?"
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Sep 7, 2014 19:22
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Cerv posted:maybe but when people repeatedly say "this scene in the screenplay is awful but when filmed exactly as scripted it was great" the penny should drop that they're reading it wrong. Well the mistake there is that nothing is filmed "as scripted." It always has to pass through a director first and can become better. I think it's fair though for people to look at the scripts and say that the resolution of this episode was weak or that the Jenny/Vastra/Strax dynamic in Deep Breath has become played out. Sure, individual moments can be saved by good directing, like the spoon fight, but the overall stories have still been pretty weak.
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Sep 7, 2014 19:26
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Smith, for me, will always be lumped with McCoy in the "Fantastic Doctor; poo poo Stories" category. Smith regularly elevated poo poo lines and scripts simply because of how well he inhabited the role.
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Sep 7, 2014 19:35
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PriorMarcus posted:Sure, individual moments can be saved by good directing, like the spoon fight, but the overall stories have still been pretty weak. And that, if I had any criticism of recent Who, is that the stories are not really weak per se, but definitely playing it safe. Like Season 7 of TNG. It has a cozy warm blanket feeling, and not enough to pull it away from you and surprise you entirely.
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Sep 7, 2014 19:36
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Big Mean Jerk posted:Smith, for me, will always be lumped with McCoy in the "Fantastic Doctor; poo poo Stories" category. Smith regularly elevated poo poo lines and scripts simply because of how well he inhabited the role. Yeah, Smith was never the problem, it was the writing. HD DAD posted:And that, if I had any criticism of recent Who, is that the stories are not really weak per se, but definitely playing it safe. This is what most people who read the scripts came away with. For all of Moffat's interviews saying it was a new show with a fresh feeling its still the same thing as last time, warts and all. It helps that a lot of the more blatant sexism has been edited out. PriorMarcus fucked around with this message at 19:38 on Sep 7, 2014 |
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Sep 7, 2014 19:36
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Worry not goons. Once Capaldi gets a catch phrase, a good speech or two and a defining moment of epic selfless heroism you'll all be ready to join us as Capaldi converts!
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Sep 7, 2014 20:01
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PriorMarcus posted:
It's interesting that Moffat says Kill The Moon is the first episode that actively breaks what the series used to be and introduces more of what's to come. I'm hesitantly optimistic. HD DAD fucked around with this message at 20:14 on Sep 7, 2014 |
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Sep 7, 2014 20:04
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Quote =/= edit
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Sep 7, 2014 20:13
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I just watched this episode, and I really liked most of it. The core, of course, was the Doctor's interactions with Robin Hood. They played off each other great, and I like that, cynical as he is, he can still get caught up in a juvenile pissing match. Clara was great as the voice of reason, and I also loved her mocking the Doctor. "Tell me your plan, and don't use the words 'sonic screwdriver.' Screwdriver, it's always the screwdriver with him!" And Clara is so much better this season. She actually has dreams and personality aside from just "saving the Doctor." I believed her when she said she grew up reading Robin Hood stories, and I loved the way she wheedled the Sheriff to get information out of him. She's actually showing independence and intelligence for once. The spoon fight was a lot of fun- it was just the blend of silly and dramatic I expect from this show. And I thought the Sheriff was played with the perfect confused level of megalomania. Reminds me of the Archmage from Gargoyles: "Once you have ultimate power, what do you plan to do?" "I hadn't thought that far in advance. I suppose I could conquer Scotland!" The robots were basically knock-offs of the Cybermen, but the focus was on the Sheriff, so it really didn't matter. The ending had problems. Shooting the golden arrow was just stupid. The thing is powered by gold, but it doesn't have quite enough, so hitting it with an arrow from the outside will do the trick? Come on, they had tons of gold, a few extra pounds won't make a difference, and it wasn't even in the engine. I also didn't care for it turning out that Robin was, in fact, real. You'd think the Doctor, of all people, would have known whether someone from history was actually historical. The message at the end was that, even if he was forgotten by history, the story is what matters, but that message would have been even stronger if he had been fake. And he just happened to find Maid Marian? That was a cheat. Similarly, him landing right in front of Robin Hood at the beginning, just by coincidence, was very implausible, but I can handwave that as saying the TARDIS was steering him to where he needed to be. So far, this season is 3/3 with me. This was a funny episode and developed the relationship between Clara and the Doctor nicely. There were some missteps plotwise, but the characters were spot-on, and that's more important to me.
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Sep 7, 2014 20:14
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HD DAD posted:It's interesting that Moffat says Kill The Moon is the first episode that actively breaks what the series used to be and introduces more of what's to come. I'm hesitantly optimistic. Looking forward to that. In all honesty, I'm also interested in Danny's character development. Since there is a Watson-esque nature to him, and seeing how that was handled in Sherlock, I'm optimistic. I'm also getting concerned that the whole Missy plot will get hosed over somehow.If it's a new character, unless it's someone who is part of the Doctor's past, but hasn't been explicitly mentioned (the only one coming to mind is Susan's grandmother), it will likely be meaningless, quite like Tasha Lem was in Time of the Doctor (who, whilst an interesting character, I felt like she could have been replaced by basically anyone...maybe if there was more back story, it would have worked better). If it's an existing character, I can't think of a single good option. I hope that Moffat will surprise us in a good way, but aside from the way he revealed who Clara was in Name of the Doctor, he hasn't been especially good at that (the River reveal in AGMGTW was pretty meh).
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Sep 7, 2014 20:16
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PriorMarcus posted:Yeah, Smith was never the problem, it was the writing. And this is my current predicament as I feel Capaldi is the problem in my opinion goons
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Sep 7, 2014 20:19
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Crazy Man posted:Tasha Lem Crazy Man posted:an interesting character Does not compute.
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Sep 7, 2014 20:26
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I forget where, but didn't someone say that Tasha Lem was supposed to be River, but they couldn't get Alex Kingston in due to scheduling problems? Also, apparently Time went through a lot of hasty rewrites. The scene where Eleven hallucinates Amy was supposed to include Rory, the Paternosters, and Craig. Mainly I'm just sad about the lack of Rory.
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Sep 7, 2014 20:34
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