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Murmur Twin posted:MMM: may I have confirmation that the deadline isn't tonight? I don't think I'm going to be online, so if it is I feel like I should have a vote here. But if it isn't, I don't want a repeat of last night where the fact that I voted makes a negative difference. Right. It's certainly not tonight, I'm not satan. How mad would you guys be if it was Friday or Saturday at midnight EST.
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Sep 11, 2014 19:50
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The Carpet Shark posted:I don't know if I'd vote Murmur Twin out this round. I know it would benefit me to say they've been acting super scummy but there isn't enough there for me to feel it's conclusive. The Carpet Shark posted:You were making a case against me, PM was making one arguing that you might be scum and that you were trying to incriminate the two of us. If I had said 'YEAH, Murmur Twin sure is acting scummy!' then your case against me would seem less sound. But I didn't feel you were acting as scummy as PM seemed to think you were. I didn't see this when I made that last post: The Carpet Shark posted:If I were scum I never would have made that move for fear of people accusing me. But frankly, that has not been something I have had to worry about other than the passing thought of 'oh man, I hope they don't accidentally vote ME out'. What you said to Met directly contradicts what you said to me (regarding whether you're thinking of self-preservation, which is a scum trait). ##vote The Carpet Shark - I'm putting this here so it's clear where I stand.
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Sep 11, 2014 19:55
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Doesn't matter to me when the deadline is.
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Sep 11, 2014 19:58
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Met posted:If you're going to case me, do it right. Simply go check my previous games. I do pretty much nothing on the first night except self-vote or spectate no matter my role because it always ends up being something boring boring breadchat and then a townie is lynched. I waste all my thread-viewing time on the first day phase looking for breadcrumbs (no pun intended). i think d1 is important for realtalk because it makes it a lot easier to sift through things later when lynching scum goes from being the goal to being absolutely mandatory. i'm sympathetic to your thoughts and playstyle here, but at the same time you just took an entire day's worth of content, to which you didn't really contribute, and made a huge post in response. you also issued a mad early d2 vote. could be fine. could be scummy. i will say that i certainly don't hate your following case; i just wanted to throw that out there. Met posted:You guys are an echo chamber with the "let's hear more from Met". Makes it really easy to turbo someone you know won't be there. That's potentially scummy as it's a safe way to put a target on someone without looking bad yourself. any time i was whining about lurkers lurking, it was because i wanted to hear more, not because i wanted to go after anybody guns blazing. i wasn't stoked to go for twelve, and was significantly less stoked to go after you. i just felt distinctly less fabulous against my vote on murmur and didn't want to no-lynch. Met posted:Throwing my vote out now because I plan to go to bed early because I have drinking plans tonight. Try not to turbo me. i don't like this. after that bullshit last night i'd hope we'd be more hesitant to cut the day off short with an asinine turbo.
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Sep 11, 2014 20:12
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 My apologies for lurking; yet more RL issues. Looks like I did my job though... good luck!
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Sep 11, 2014 22:53
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Murmur Twin posted:
What, that it would benefit me? It would've. Not to mention that you, Murmur, were the one putting me in the line of fire last time. It's a weird topsy-turvy game you're playing here, as far as I see it. Why would I have not just gone ahead and argued alongside PM for voting you out, were I scum? Like I said before, it would have made your case against me look weaker, and there would be no reason to point out it was a move that benefitted me. Also, when you are town self-preservation does play a part in your game, even if it is not the top priority. Maybe I'm still too naive at this point, but I've been playing under the impression that the town killing each other is bad, and have thus thought about what would benefit me in terms of not being booted from the game, as I am part of the town. Am I overly concerned about being accused? No, if the other townies end up killing me off they'll at least realize they done goofed, and that they need to rethink things. I'm starting to wonder if you don't think of me as a threat that needs to be eliminated since I supported PM on certain things and you seem to have had some interest in voting her off. And since the general read on PM is town, maybe you think it's best to immediately follow Mets actions with someone who looks worse in the town's eyes at the moment.
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Sep 12, 2014 00:17
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I'm phone posting, so I'm not gonna quote, but I realized that in that last paragraph the language I used made it sound like I meant ''does not see me as a threat' when I meant the opposite. Apologies if that was confusing.
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Sep 12, 2014 01:10
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Alright! I'm back from school. Let's see.Met posted:Strong Mouse got the ball started on the townie and then never spoke again. Murmur Twin hammered. I don't put much stock in either of those though (though it's weird Strong Mouse never spoke again after that vote). Mafia tend to hide in the late middle of townie votes with really lackluster excuses for the vote other than "Everyone else is doing it" I ended up playing Diablo 3 shortly after voting and lost track of time. Sorry about that. I also think that MM just goofed and forgot about the twilight period where we can't post. Met posted:The Carpet Shark is my pick for today. Met voted somebody really early in the day. It seems like he has plans, but he didn't try checking to see how long this day was going to last. Not quite sure what to think here right now. Adus posted:
I agree it was flimsy. I started the vote on him so that others would start thinking about the person they would end up voting for. I didn't actually think that he would be hammered. MildManeredManikin posted:Right. It's certainly not tonight, I'm not satan. How mad would you guys be if it was Friday or Saturday at midnight EST. I don't really care. I don't have any plans for the evening on either of those days, so I could be here. Also, it seems that we are at -2 for The Carpet Shark. I'm not totally positive, but from what I am seeing he seems more town than scum to me. I won't be voting right now, and we really don't want a turbo hammer, so think before you vote.
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Sep 12, 2014 01:25
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i think it's funny that met came in fairly shortly after the nightkill with one big post, closing it with that early vote, and begging not to be turboed. feels fishy. and then murmur hops on with the second vote going shark's way after taking a few posts to offer a hint of text/reasoning with quotes, two of which she quoted twice. setting up her busy schedule/life and double-checking the deadline with mmm was wise. and then she voted anyway. so those are the two i'm going to be peering at today, if either of them will be so kind as to show back up and say more things. oh, and carpet shark is reads sincere to me. i'm definitely not about to be jumping on top of that nonsense.
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Sep 12, 2014 04:22
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Murmur Twin posted:I'm in the newbie game for a reason! forgot?? that seems like an important rule to remember! seems like a bit of a weak excuse. Met posted:
carpet shark is a newbie like i am and i'm inclined to believe he felt going with the flow was better than causing too many waves when things seemed to be going in a certain direction. my line of thought was 'all the cases are fairly bad but twelvebud's post was kinda confusing and awkward and oh man doing a NL sounds real bad so better choose someone'. meanwhile you're voting immediately which seems a bit hasty. however my retroactive skepticism at twelvebud's scum status due to not defending himself could technically apply to you as well. seems pretty risky to go the almost entire night before the deadline without saying anything. soscannonballs posted:That was a very dumb hammer vote. while this is true, i could also read this as a quick cover. when i played survivor i did something against my alliance at one point and when the results of that action came up i was one of the first people to go 'oh man that thing that happened was sure unexpected and bad!' it can be tempting to speak up quickly in opposition of something to hide the fact that it was actually benefiting you. it's a meager point but figure anything is worth pointing out not sure who i'm leaning toward yet but definitely not placing any votes at the moment
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Sep 12, 2014 04:22
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to clarify: i'm not 100% convinced absolutely sure carpet shark is town. this could be a bus. but if that's the case, i'd still rather not play into scum's hand.
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Sep 12, 2014 04:25
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and then i sat there and actually really thought it through and bussing in a game with 2 scum is completely retarded unless you're reading totally townie town, which neither met nor murmur are.
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Sep 12, 2014 04:28
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Adus posted:while this is true, i could also read this as a quick cover. when i played survivor i did something against my alliance at one point and when the results of that action came up i was one of the first people to go 'oh man that thing that happened was sure unexpected and bad!' it can be tempting to speak up quickly in opposition of something to hide the fact that it was actually benefiting you. A cover for what? I didn't vote for Twelvebaud, and I pointed out that he was at -1 so that he wouldn't get hammered by accident and would have a chance to come defend himself. I wanted to lynch Met yesterday.
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Sep 12, 2014 04:52
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soscannonballs posted:A cover for what? I didn't vote for Twelvebaud, and I pointed out that he was at -1 so that he wouldn't get hammered by accident and would have a chance to come defend himself. I wanted to lynch Met yesterday. is he seeming better to you after that effortpost?
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Sep 12, 2014 05:04
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I feel a little bit better about him since I agree with some of the things he posted. I am going to try and do a re-read in a little bit, but right now the person who I am suspicious of the most is Carpet Shark.
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Sep 12, 2014 05:08
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Murmur Twin posted:
When I first read the above post I then moved on to your later post and addressed that one instead, but I can address this one too because the more I read your arguments against me, the more suspicious I get. At first I thought 'Well, I'd better tell Murmur what my motivations were' but now I'm wondering a whole lot more about your motivations. So the first outlined scenario was: I'm town and I think you're town - But I had my doubts about you being town, as seen in this quote which you yourself quoted earlier so you'd be hard-pressed to argue you forgot. The Carpet Shark posted:I don't know if I'd vote Murmur Twin out this round. I know it would benefit me to say they've been acting super scummy but there isn't enough there for me to feel it's conclusive. There were a couple things that seemed off, but they've been making their own cases and they haven't been fixated on any one person as far as I can tell. While I wasn't comfortable voting you out because I felt there was too high a risk at that point, I was definitely not convinced of your innocence. And of course shifting the lynch off of myself would have been beneficial: the only person who I know is town is myself! How could I possibly guarantee you're town, even if I wasn't doubting it at the time? But you weren't in my very top picks, so even though I was not convinced of your towniness I wasn't about to point my finger at you. So scenario two: I'm town and I think you're scum - You might assume we would hear a case, but that is, you know, an assumption. Remember, a few of us here are REALLY new. Feeling out all the nuances of the tipping point from 'vague scum vibe' to 'I bet this person is scum!' is a tough business so I think even if it's not ideal for the game in general that a few of us have been more hesitant to make cases, I definitely don't see it as an automatic downvote into SCUM TERRITORY. It looks like you were trying to erroneously rule out options so that you could more easily point to me as scum. And if I were scum it would benefit me to discredit you - but I didn't. 
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Sep 12, 2014 06:01
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Also I don't want to count my chicks before they hatch but it's interesting to see that the voting inclination has broken out perfectly into people who I semi-trusted and people who I didn't trust at all. Take what you will from that.
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Sep 12, 2014 06:10
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The Carpet Shark posted:Not to mention that you, Murmur, were the one putting me in the line of fire last time. It's a weird topsy-turvy game you're playing here, as far as I see it. Why would I have not just gone ahead and argued alongside PM for voting you out, were I scum? Because it would have looked bad to go after someone who was making an effort to hunt for scum? Because you are scumbuddies with PM and you didn't want to connect yourself to her? Because you didn't want to leave posts that people could use later on to case you? Because as scum the more you talk the more likely you are to screw up and you didn't want to run the risk of drawing attention to yourself? There are plenty of reasons - I don't know anyone's decisionmaking process other than my own and I'm not trying to pretend I do. I put a few people in the line of fire to gauge their reactions and see who felt scummiest. As time has gone forward, I think it's you. quote:I'm starting to wonder if you don't think of me as a threat that needs to be eliminated since I supported PM on certain things and you seem to have had some interest in voting her off. And since the general read on PM is town, maybe you think it's best to immediately follow Mets actions with someone who looks worse in the town's eyes at the moment. No, I don't think you're a threat that needs to be eliminated since you supported PM on certain things! Allow me to clarify some. votefinder posted:Votecount for Day 1 Murmur Twin posted:I'm still going with Prop! Not because I'm super sure she's scum or anything but until I hear non-bread related things I feel like my gut is all I have. That said, there's plenty of time for discussion. This post from page 2 of this thread is the last time I accused Prop of being scum. I also accused you, TwelveBaud, and Met of being scum that day. I didn't vote for Prop yesterday, and I haven't mentioned her today. What makes you think that I have it out for Prop other than the fact that I opened the first case of the game on her (and then backed down on it pretty quickly)? I don't think you're a "threat that needs to be eliminated", I think you're scum. I've covered some reasons already - but at the end of the day here's my main issue: Carpet Shark, talking about his longevity in the game posted:
Carpet Shark's cases against scum suspects posted:If you're town, act like town! Can you please make a case on the person you think is scummiest? If it's me that's totally fine, just please have better reasons that are better than hypothetical situations? Show me that you're reading the game hunting for clues. Same request goes out to everyone, actually.
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Sep 12, 2014 06:25
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Props - really quick, you seem to think Carpet Shark is town. Why? I'm starting another effortpost regarding other people but it's 1:37am here and I'm starting to fade a bit.
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Sep 12, 2014 06:37
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I just want to get my thoughts out there. If you want me to expand on anybody, I will get support from what they have posted. People left: Adus: Hasn't posted much, but feels pretty town to me. Met: Has really felt the most iffy to me. Is somebody I may vote for if things keep as they are. Murmur Twin: D1 felt really off, but since then she has swung back towards the middle for what I think. Probably more town than scum Propaganda Machine: Easily the most towny feel I get. soscannonballs: has an awesome name, and makes great points. I haven't really noticed anything scummy about his posts, but he is somebody that I haven't paid too much attention to. I should change that. The Carpet Shark: Feels the second scummiest after Met. Currently at -2 to hammer.
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Sep 12, 2014 06:50
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Murmur Twin posted:Props - really quick, you seem to think Carpet Shark is town. Why? i don't necessarily, i think he's hovering somewhere in the middle of my spiritual lumpenlist. if he's scum, i think there's a very high potential that he is collaborating with either you or met right now. there would have been time to talk though through before met's big post rolled out this morning my time. so yeah i'm not wholly convinced he's town, but i'm absolutely not going to put him at -1.
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Sep 12, 2014 07:15
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Propaganda Machine posted:i don't necessarily, i think he's hovering somewhere in the middle of my spiritual lumpenlist. if he's scum, i think there's a very high potential that he is collaborating with either you or met right now. there would have been time to talk through a fake bussing or something before met's big post rolled out this morning my time. mafia edit
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Sep 12, 2014 07:16
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Murmur Twin posted:Props - really quick, you seem to think Carpet Shark is town. Why? my town leaning read on carpet shark might have something to do with being sympathetic to a fellow newbie but it seems like he's been kinda put on the defensive while also having a hard time picking out exactly what looks like scum behavior. i also really have a hard time figuring out what it's supposed to look like, which is why i had a 'bad feeling' about you early on simply because you were the first to make an accusation. something i have been told is just pretty normal and even indicative of town behavior. i'm not fully convinced of his innocence either, but if i were to trust my gut i think he's okay. for the record it seems slightly odd to me that you voted for carpet after getting confirmation (which you asked for) that the deadline was not until friday or saturday. bringing down the hammer with time to spare is possibly another slip-up, but other than that i've been getting more of a town read on you lately. met hasn't really posted much at all in regards to the game except for the one bigger post today which he immediately uses to cast a vote and then say he won't be around later. being new i can't tell if that's a riskier move as town or scum. this game is hard!
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Sep 12, 2014 07:25
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Murmur Twin posted:If you're town, act like town! Can you please make a case on the person you think is scummiest? If it's me that's totally fine, just please have better reasons that are better than hypothetical situations? Show me that you're reading the game hunting for clues. Saying things like 'if you're town act like town!' is really frustrating. I get that my case wasn't up to your standards. That's fine, it's on me to make a good case. But trying to prod me into behaving like a better town person doesn't work when I have no basis for how to do so. How am I supposed to know what thing you are next going to decide isn't just the right shade of town for you? Like the time I asked a question?? I have navigated this game honestly, albeit foolishly, and I really am trying my best. I apologise to you, Murmur, and the rest of you, if I am being too irritating with my lack of understanding of the nuances of the game, and I am glad to be playing because I am learning.
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Sep 12, 2014 07:28
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whoa, shark, good pull.Murmur Twin posted:If you're town, act like town! Can you please make a case on the person you think is scummiest? If it's me that's totally fine, just please have better reasons that are better than hypothetical situations? Show me that you're reading the game hunting for clues. it's hard not to notice that she is badgering for opinions while throwing out a haphazard vote and not really putting out much of her own. now that i think about it, again, that flimsy d1 case is looking more and more like a conscious attempt to play a different scum game than last time.
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Sep 12, 2014 07:32
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Propaganda Machine posted:i think it's funny that met came in fairly shortly after the nightkill with one big post, closing it with that early vote, and begging not to be turboed. Are you kidding? Go look at my post history and you'll see my active times. If I half-rear end it, I get the "he's not posting much. Scum" and now you're going "He's posting too much. Scum." Yesterday you were pinning a lot on Murmur. Now you've switched to me when it was convenient. Adus posted:meanwhile you're voting immediately which seems a bit hasty. however my retroactive skepticism at twelvebud's scum status due to not defending himself could technically apply to you as well. seems pretty risky to go the almost entire night before the deadline without saying anything. I'm voting immediately so you know where I stand before going to sleep and then morning plans. Had I not voted, I guarantee you someone would have said it was scummy that I made a big spiel about Carpet Shark and then NOT voted to see how everyone would reply. If it makes you feel comfortable, go ahead and lynch me. Scum isn't going to waste a nightkill on me with this much of a target on me. I'm just a vanilla town without anything to contribute but a vote. Try not to waste our precious few lynches in a short game like this. We have no scum down yet to compare, but Carpet Shark and Props are playing off each other while throwing accusations at every person going by to see what sticks. I call bragging points if they both turn out to be scum. Shame on one if the other is scum and leading them on.
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Sep 12, 2014 07:57
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whoa. met. chill. i haven't had the time today to read yet another full game of mafia (i'll do you tomorrow i guess), but if you'd bother to read this one, you'd see that i'm throwing you softballs but really suspecting murmur above anybody else. i think her jumping onto your vote is scummier than your making it in the first place. going to bed chat with you nerds tomorrow.
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Sep 12, 2014 08:09
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The Carpet Shark posted:Saying things like 'if you're town act like town!' is really frustrating. I get that my case wasn't up to your standards. That's fine, it's on me to make a good case. But trying to prod me into behaving like a better town person doesn't work when I have no basis for how to do so. How am I supposed to know what thing you are next going to decide isn't just the right shade of town for you? Like the time I asked a question?? I have navigated this game honestly, albeit foolishly, and I really am trying my best. I apologise to you, Murmur, and the rest of you, if I am being too irritating with my lack of understanding of the nuances of the game, and I am glad to be playing because I am learning. Quick time-out here: I just want to stress that no matter how much I grill you or anyone else, or how much someone else does it to me, that it's all in the name of playing a silly party game on the internet. You're not being irritating by not understanding anything, and I hope I'm not coming off as overly aggressive (or, that if I am, that it's not being taken as anything more than "I think your role PM says butter instead of bread"). I've been on the receiving end of (hi Merk and windshipper!) being picked apart when I was town seemingly no matter what I said, and I found it incredibly frustrating. I actually stopped playing for a few months because I didn't like the overall concept of "arguing with strangers for fun" - it all just felt overly confrontational to me and I didn't enjoy that. That said, I've also played in games where no one was being decisive because they didn't want to make an incorrect case, and all that happened was that the game stalled, posting slowed to a crawl, and it pretty much became a coin flip at every deadline because no one wanted to take a stance. The approach I've been taking this game has been to call out anything that I see as possibly off (for example, the capitalization case) and to gauge reactions more, and it's actually been a lot funner this way. And I will say that right now I do still have you high on my list and to please not take any of this personally because at the end of the day it's all about having fun. OK, time-in. I should probably do my job at some point but will be here throughout the day.
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Sep 12, 2014 14:11
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Strong Mouse posted:I just want to get my thoughts out there. If you want me to expand on anybody, I will get support from what they have posted. I would like you to expand on these two if possible, please.
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Sep 12, 2014 14:38
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Adus posted:my town leaning read on carpet shark might have something to do with being sympathetic to a fellow newbie but it seems like he's been kinda put on the defensive while also having a hard time picking out exactly what looks like scum behavior. i also really have a hard time figuring out what it's supposed to look like, which is why i had a 'bad feeling' about you early on simply because you were the first to make an accusation. something i have been told is just pretty normal and even indicative of town behavior. i'm not fully convinced of his innocence either, but if i were to trust my gut i think he's okay. This feels genuine to me. I've had similar feelings in other games where I was newbie town. That plus the fact that you're pointing out things you see as suspicious even if you're not sure of them has you off my scumdar for now. quote:for the record it seems slightly odd to me that you voted for carpet after getting confirmation (which you asked for) that the deadline was not until friday or saturday. bringing down the hammer with time to spare is possibly another slip-up, but other than that i've been getting more of a town read on you lately. Met vs. Twelvebaud on D1 was more or less a coinflip. Deadline was coming, the case on Twelvebaud to me felt as good as we were going to get, and jumping the gun was a mistake. Day 2 is different, though - I'm acting on what I feel is a reasonable hunch that Carpet is scum. I genuinely think that if two more people jump on and vote for him that we'll get scum, and if we don't I'm willing to take accountability for it. The lynch isn't going to happen unless two others (besides Met) agree with me anyways. quote:met hasn't really posted much at all in regards to the game except for the one bigger post today which he immediately uses to cast a vote and then say he won't be around later. being new i can't tell if that's a riskier move as town or scum. I think Met is the person I'm most sure of is town, but I'll admit that it is probably because he seems to have independently come to a lot of the same conclusions as I have. More on that later.
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Sep 12, 2014 15:01
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I'm not at home right now and won't really be until tomorrow so assume that the deadline is Saturday at midnight EST. You can vote somebody out before then if you'd like, but you won't get a flip until tomorrow.
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Sep 12, 2014 15:56
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MildManeredManikin posted:I'm not at home right now and won't really be until tomorrow so assume that the deadline is Saturday at midnight EST. You can vote somebody out before then if you'd like, but you won't get a flip until tomorrow. still no posting after hammer, right?
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Sep 12, 2014 16:58
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Propaganda Machine posted:still no posting after hammer, right? That's correct!
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Sep 12, 2014 17:16
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Ah, time to case PM. In reading Prop's posts I see a lot of hypotheticals that discredit people without actually quoting (or sometimes even fact-checking) them. To practice what I preach, here are five examples and my rebuttals to them. Propaganda Machine posted:yeah, so, since i actually know i'm town, and there are two people actively pushing for me, that seems suspicious. that reads like a scumdoc strategizing. but what do i know, right? This could be two things: a. Two people case PM because they think she might be scum (imagine that!) b. Two people case PM because they're in a scumdoc together But she only brings up the second one. Propaganda Machine posted:man, what a masterstroke it would be to outline your previous scum game and do something completely different the next time you're scum. This could be two things: a. I brought up my previous scum game because I was asked about my previous games b. I brought up my previous scum game so that I could consciously do the opposite and dodge suspicion But she only brings up the second one. Propaganda Machine posted:i think it's funny that met came in fairly shortly after the nightkill with one big post, closing it with that early vote, and begging not to be turboed. Honestly, I really don't even know what the implication is regarding why this is fishy. For what it's worth, the reason I made sure people knew I wouldn't be around last night was that you were trying to use the fact that I wasn't there on D1 as a case against me: Propaganda Machine posted:
Moving on: Propaganda Machine posted:i think there's a very high potential that he is collaborating with either you or met right now. there would have been time to talk though through before met's big post rolled out this morning my time. Another case where Prop says something that could be true without justifying why it actually might be. Propaganda Machine posted:it's hard not to notice that she is badgering for opinions while throwing out a haphazard vote and not really putting out much of her own. now that i think about it, again, that flimsy d1 case is looking more and more like a conscious attempt to play a different scum game than last time. Of course, my big play was questioning your capatalization as the very first non-jokephase case of the game and then linking my other scumgame, all so that no one would suspect me down the road. Nailed it! In all seriousness though, I asked you this when it came up earlier and you never answered it: Why would saying "Props, who do you think is scum?" before there had been any game chat at all been better than making you defend yourself from a case? It's pretty crazy how much effort PM is going through to make me look scum. I was going to go through the history and quote them all but this post is already super long, so here's a short list: - that I wasn't around the first evening of D1 and didn't say anything - that I made a case against her (capitalization) that wasn't strong - that I encouraged further breadtalk when asking people to post more - that I was potentially in a scumdoc with Twelvebaud - that I went through her history to case her - that I outlined my last scum game and am acting differently now from how I did then - that I was asking a lot of questions and making multiple cases on people - that I was the only one pushing for her and Shark even though other people were voicing town reads on her - that I hammered early to prevent further conversation - that I voted for Shark at the start of D2 after seeing what the deadline would be - that I wasn't around yesterday and did say something - that I might be collaborating with Met or Shark in a scumdoc - that my reads are the same as Met's and my favorite: - that I'm "badgering for opinions while throwing out a haphazard vote and not really putting out much of her own" despite the fact that I've actively cased people and cited the reason for every opinion I've had. After making this post, PM feels more suspicious to me than Shark. Of the two options: a. PM is town and thinks I'm scum b. PM is scum and is trying to make everyone else think I'm scum I feel like B is more likely based on (a) using a bunch of hypothetical situations instead of quoting my posts and responding to them, and (b) the sheer number of accusations thrown out at me. ##vote Propaganda Machine I'll put this out there - I would like to see either myself or PM lynched today, because I feel like it will clear a lot up. I feel pretty damned sure PM is scum, but if others don't, I feel like it would almost be better for people to see my flip to remove some of the uncertainty here.
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Sep 12, 2014 17:40
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Propaganda Machine posted:i think it's funny that met came in fairly shortly after the nightkill with one big post, closing it with that early vote, and begging not to be turboed. Oh right, one more point. I didn't want to say it before because I wasn't sure if it was in the spirit of the game, but I checked with MMM and it's fine. The first reason that I started to think Met is town was almost the opposite of what Prop says above:  The nightkill happened roughly between 10p-11p EST But Met didn't post at all around that time.So either: a. the NK happened when Met was offline, indicating he's probably not scum b. Met was in the scumdoc at the time but not posting on SA at all It's not hard science but I definitely feel like A is more likely.
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Sep 12, 2014 17:54
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Murmur Twin posted:I would like you to expand on these two if possible, please. Wow, I am bad at supporting arguments. I generally play on my gut and have trouble backing things up. I should try fixing that. re:PM On day one, after all of the jokevote/trying to get people to post/breadchat, PM seemed extremely town to me. But since the new day she has actively been going after MM. I don't know if she has gotten information about her or if she is scum, but I am still thinking that she is town. re:Met Met posted:On day one with a bunch of newbies. Yeah, I'll go pick scum out of breadchat. I mean, yeah it is hard to get scum out of breadchat, but we could try? He then immediately, at the beginning of the day voted carpet shark and then disappeared. Met posted:Are you kidding? Go look at my post history and you'll see my active times. If I half-rear end it, I get the "he's not posting much. Scum" and now you're going "He's posting too much. Scum." You've posted twice since the start of the day. That isn't posting too much by any definition. Met posted:I'm voting immediately so you know where I stand before going to sleep and then morning plans. Had I not voted, I guarantee you someone would have said it was scummy that I made a big spiel about Carpet Shark and then NOT voted to see how everyone would reply. I actually like the upper argument. If no one else, I probably would have asked about that , though that would more scream "talk more" than "scum". The second part: You're most likely right about scum probably leaving you alone at night if you are town, since a lot of us are really looking at you thinking you have a good chance to be scum (including myself). But if you are scum, then you definitely won't be nightkilled, because you are helping to choose who will be nked. So yeah, I'm not great at supporting my thoughts, but I don't especially think that PM is scum, and Met is still the top up there with carpet for feeling most scummy to me. I saw this after I wrote all of that^^ Murmur Twin posted:Oh right, one more point. It does seem that met was possibly offline during the night phase, so I am not 100% positive he is scum.
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Sep 12, 2014 18:35
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Strong Mouse posted:I mean, yeah it is hard to get scum out of breadchat, but we could try?  sorry
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Sep 12, 2014 18:59
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Murmur Twin posted:Oh right, one more point. this is a good point. as for the rest of it...oh, honey. Murmur Twin posted:In reading Prop's posts I see a lot of hypotheticals that discredit people without actually quoting (or sometimes even fact-checking) them. To practice what I preach, here are five examples and my rebuttals to them. you're full of it, but i'm going to have to press on to show you quite why. Murmur Twin posted:This could be two things: a) yeah, so i've been defending myself and i've also been actively scumhunting (imagine that!) b) yep. c) (which you neglected) one is scum, one is town, town is playing into scum's hand Murmur Twin posted:But she only brings up the second one. because the first is very clearly implied by my defending myself and scumhunting. Murmur Twin posted:This could be two things: a is pretty irrelevant because you yourself chose to highlight the scum game, which reads like you're going out of your way to showcase a distinctly different playstyle (as in b). this is a reasonable action to take as either scum or town, so it is mostly meaningless (although i do find it fascinating that, after i called you out on reverting to your scum game, you ramped it right back up to the way you were playing earlier on). you might have thought to highlight a good town game, or two. i did inquire after all seven of them. Murmur Twin posted:Honestly, I really don't even know what the implication is regarding why this is fishy. voting straight away on what he "feels" is a clear case makes a bit of sense, i guess, but embodying the very definition of a turbo while asking (twice!) that the same not be done to him is fishy. just fishy. that's all. he's still sitting very comfortably in the middle of my inner lumpenlist. Murmur Twin posted:For what it's worth, the reason I made sure people knew I wouldn't be around last night was that you were trying to use the fact that I wasn't there on D1 as a case against me: yep. the d1 case wasn't too strong, which is why i very happily backed off. the d2 case is looking better by the minute, however. there's a lot of post to go, but you're acting awfully defensive, and your points aren't very well substantiated. Murmur Twin posted:Moving on: are you saying that throwing out hypotheses is...baseless? useless? scummy? it's just something to think about! the entire point is that town is an uninformed majority with mafia being the informed minority. since town lacks information by definition, the only move is to poke and prod and try to suss it out and see what people do once the idea comes up as scum, it doesn't seem like you want people making connections like that (which is why in other games town sniffs for distancing tactics to root out potential scumbros). Murmur Twin posted:Of course, my big play was questioning your capatalization as the very first non-jokephase case of the game and then linking my other scumgame, all so that no one would suspect me down the road. Nailed it! uh, i never said that? i'll grant you that it's tricky to move out of jokephase and into an actual game. if you had asked me that question, it probably would have been half a joke answer, but the way that person would respond would be...well, it would be something, anyway. Murmur Twin posted:It's pretty crazy how much effort PM is going through to make me look scum. nah, you're doing a fine job of that yourself. you're also putting out a lot to work with. and what you're putting out has looked everywhere from slightly suspicious to okay not bad to what the bleeding christ is this poo poo. this was also a lot of effort on your part. are you scared? if you're scum, i suppose you ought to be. Murmur Twin posted:I was going to go through the history and quote them all but this post is already super long, so here's a short list: well, this post is already quite long enough without all those bullet points so all i'll say is everybody else is reading the same game you are, and they all think i'm town. which i am. Murmur Twin posted:After making this post, PM feels more suspicious to me than Shark. of course i do. you're using strawmen, and you knew full well where this post was headed when you started composing it. Murmur Twin posted:Of the two options: there is a lot more in here accusing me of stuff than defending yourself. making it a thunderdome is a bold move, but after that wonderful post you must surely be hoping that you're doing a better job than me. if you're town, you're going to be looking worse than anybody after i flip town, so a thunderdome on this is a really stupid idea. but, well, according to you, i really like stupid ideas. ##vote murmur twin and just to be clear, if i see you defending yourself, i'll reconsider. if you can point me to a great town game or two in particular, and things check out, i'll reconsider. there's a whole bunch of stuff you can do here, just like you did yesterday, but you've just made it a lot harder for yourself, i'm afraid.
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Sep 12, 2014 20:11
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mafia editPropaganda Machine posted:there is a lot more in here accusing me of stuff than defending yourself. rereading this, she actually defended herself, and then slid it into accusing me of stuff, mostly based on my trying to case her. hers is an omgus vote, and it's a stupid one.
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Sep 12, 2014 20:15
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double mafia edit. calling stephen hawking to see how deep this rabbit hole can go.Propaganda Machine posted:mafia edit i've been the most active in this game, by a long shot, and i've been scumhunting like heck. going in for that hilarious chokeslam (and perhaps even bussing herself) is a great way to silence the town and let the scumbro quietly do what he will do. after my mislynch, town would only have one left.
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Sep 12, 2014 20:17
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