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I reread sos one more time and feel almost certain that he's town based on his posts/cases. My preference would be to lynch Met now (something there doesn't seem quite right), and if he ends up being town cop whoever is left lynches Adus the next day. If the order of Met/Adus was flipped I'd be fine with it as long as those are the next two lynches. If others read this and agree, let's start voting and see what's good!
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Sep 15, 2014 20:16
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I don't believe the cop claim for one second. If you look at the setup there is a 50% chance of town having a cop but the scum will know for sure whether we have one based on whether or not they have a roleblocker. If the last scum is is just vanilla then we have no cop but they can claim cop and just say they investigated two townies and we have no way of verifying that. Also, I don't recall MT ever being a viable lynch candidate. Finally, if I were scum why would I write up a big case on my scum partner and push for his lynch over literally any of the other players? Why wouldn't I just let PM and MT continue to go at each other instead of trying to get them to look at other people? This is a desperate last ditch attempt by Met to stay alive.
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Sep 15, 2014 20:19
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Met posted:We have no scum down yet to compare, but Carpet Shark and Props are playing off each other while throwing accusations at every person going by to see what sticks. I call bragging points if they both turn out to be scum. Shame on one if the other is scum and leading them on. Also it looks like Met was suspicious of PM so I'm note sure why he would have investigated MT instead of PM on day 1 if he was a cop.
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Sep 15, 2014 20:54
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While we wait for Carpet/Adus, here's another small contradiction I noticed: Right at the start of D2 (to PM): Met posted:When did Murmur Twin come under "legitimate flak"? When he accused you on Day 1? Regarding cop claim: Met posted:Checked Murmur on Night 1 after he was almost lynched. Came up clean. I'm happy with ##vote Met, at this point the inconsistencies with his posting seem louder than his cop claim.
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Sep 15, 2014 20:54
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##vote Met
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Sep 15, 2014 21:04
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interesting turn of events. i'm on my lunch break and trying to eat so i don't have much time but i'll try and give my current thoughts. there are two scenarios. 1: met is telling the truth. in this scenario i only have one person to vote for. socannonballs. socannonballs was the first one to really case strong mouse and did so very well. so it seems very odd from my point of view. 2: he is lying. if he's lying then the only possibility is that he is scum, because i can't quite think of the point of lying about it if he's town. so if he's telling the truth why vote socannonballs? socannonballs was the first person to case strong mouse and did so very well. why would he do this to his own scum partner? it would be an incredibly risky move and as socannonballs said himself it would have served him better to let other people take the heat, especially when MT and PM were going at it. my theory is that by voting socannonballs he thought i might jump on that opportunity and try to case him. if by some chance socannonballs got lynched and turned up town it would basically make it impossible for me to recover after proving that i've not been great at defending myself. his actual reasons for voting socannonballs are very flimsy seeing that i've had met on my radar for a long time, probably more than socannonballs. let's also consider what met said about submitting actions early. i think this is a good explanation as to why PM got NKed. the theory that PM was mouse's scum partner only came up later in the day, nearly right before the deadline. met probably wasn't around and submitted his NK early thinking the loss of PM would hurt us especially if he knew she was a doctor (i don't know how likely this is?). he didn't see that she would have been on the chopping block if strong mouse came up scum.. is there anything else i should consider? and is it poor etiquette not to wait for carpet shark's input?
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Sep 15, 2014 21:32
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Adus posted:is there anything else i should consider? and is it poor etiquette not to wait for carpet shark's input? My opinion is to put your vote out there, I feel like we're right and I want to see. Your call though!
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Sep 15, 2014 21:43
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Phone vote it is then! ##vote Met
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Sep 15, 2014 21:47
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 Met, we hardly knew ye 
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Sep 15, 2014 21:48
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Jokes on you guys I'm at work, will post flip when I'm home
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Sep 15, 2014 21:58
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Met, BLAND and BUTTER ALIGNED, was eaten for lunch Day 3. Town (Twelvebaud, Mr. Maltose, Propaganda Machine, Adus, Murmur Twin, soscannonballs and The Carpet Shark) have won! Scum (Met, Strong Mouse) have lost. I have a write-up/summary coming up. I hope this game was as fun to play as it was to watch
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Sep 16, 2014 04:05
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Oh well.
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Sep 16, 2014 04:14
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Go town! I'll post more when I'm on a computer later - nice playing with everyone 
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Sep 16, 2014 04:19
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Hooray!
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Sep 16, 2014 04:24
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MildManeredManikin posted:Met, BLAND and BUTTER ALIGNED, was eaten for lunch Day 3. hooray! ironically i think i started to have more fun once i started getting accused? not sure how to explain that! also when met said he was a cop the pieces started to fit together for me and things were a lot less vague. i know i kinda failed at being a good investigator but hopefully i didn't perform too poorly for my first game. interesting experience overall. not sure if i'll join another one of these. maybe after i've had a sufficient forum game break.
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Sep 16, 2014 04:26
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Yeah! That was a lot of fun, so thank you, MMM. I was a pretty lousy scumhunter, but it was nifty that getting NKed exposed who it was. I'm helping!!! gg everybody 
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Sep 16, 2014 04:29
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Hooray~
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Sep 16, 2014 04:33
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Here's the scumdoc. Final plan required two people to agree with me and I thought I'd have Murmur Twin on my side. I initially had sos as the other one "cop verified" but thought it would make more sense to do the Carpet Shark since I was lobbying for his lynch on Day 2. Would have made more sense to cop check him.
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Sep 16, 2014 04:33
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this was a good read!Adus posted:
the game, imo, is more fun when there's something to do. It's hard when nobody reacts to what you have to say, and being cased makes you start thinking: is this person just wrong, or are they lying?
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Sep 16, 2014 04:38
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Yeah after PM flipped Doctor I was pretty much convinced that if someone claimed cop and to have investigated 2 townies then they were lying. The whole time difference thing sucks.
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Sep 16, 2014 04:48
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First I'll say that I feel players shouldn't be forced to withold information that is influencing them, this is why I told Murmur she could use the posting times even though in an ideal world that wouldn't be an argument I want players to make. (More importantly though, It's a bad argument! Don't use it in the future because it's bad) Next time I'll have my nights locked to an hour since that seemed to work better and I'll explain this in the op. Everybody did really well this game, with the exception of Twelve, who never really had a chance to play. Sorry bud. The first thing that drove me mad about this game was everybody trying to figure out what the community thinks is scummy and what is towny. This is newbie game guys, this is like the only time you don't have to play within the world of the overall SA meta! Go with what you think, not what you think you should think! It wouldn't be a mafia game if two town players didn't tunnel the gently caress out of each other from D1 on, so thank you PMach and MT for keeping this game rolling along. It was very enjoyable to watch play out and I'm glad you eventually realized that it was happening sort of. Also it was pretty great that on day two you guys produced Strong Mouse and Met as the lunch candidates and were both correct but totally divided. PMach you played a really solid overall game, pulling good town and scum reads throughout the game with a high volume as well. Also you always protected the person the scum almost killed but didn't. It made me wince like every time. MT, you started off poorly I think, I'm not really counting the first case since that one is always going to be bad (and thank you for starting the actual game btw) As the game progressed though you started pulling out better and better reads, like pushing hard for Strong Mouse. The final day where you saw through Met's cop claim was really impressive, especially since you already had such a strong town read on him. Maltose, I figure I should mention that you had some good D1 reads and I was excited to see what you were going to do as you got further. Alas. Adus and The Carpet Shark did really well for their first game! quit now and you can have that coveted 100% forum game win rate. Adus, you started out rough but as there was more information on the table to work with you came to some really solid conclusions. You could be a great town player based on what I saw at the end of day two and three, if you eve play again that is. I thought your "would I lie to you" to MT about you saying you were town was loving hilarious though. The Carpet Shark, your intuition is really good, you had Met down right out of the gate and then continued to make some strong arguments for his scumminess. You did a fair job at figuring out the other player's alignments as well, although as a sort of inverse of Adus your later play got bogged down a bit and you got beaten to the hammer twice, which was pretty funny. I think your biggest problem in here was accidentally giving off a scum vibe that a lot of players latched onto. I know this game was stressful at points, but I hope you still enjoyed it. Also, saying that you know me personally is an impressively ballsy lie for a new player to make as town  Strong Mouse, you actually did a really great job in this, even though it may not have seemed like it. You were a pretty important part of throwing the lunch off of Met in the first day and your consistent bussing helped clear him in the minds of other players later. Please continue to play mafia. Met, Honestly you did really well considering you were on the chopping block every day. The cop claim was not the best executed manoeuvre but you did a pretty good job at intimidating players out of voting for you. I think town just got in too good of a position right at the start of this game for you to really navigate your way out of. Also the time difference thing super screwed you and I apologize for that. Finally, holy poo poo soscannonballs, that was one of the best town games I've seen, recently at least. You got a bit sidetracked at points but I'll just lay some quotes down: soscannonballs posted:I would like to hear more from Met. I know he said he won't be around in the standard hours, but so far he hasn't really talked about anything. This post: soscannonballs posted:You are acting like MT and PM are the only two choices in that you have to "pick" one of them. It also sounds like you are going to rely on other people to make cases and then just vote on the one that sounds best, which is pretty scummy. soscannonballs posted:I think MT and PM are both townies who are going after each other which is all too common. In fact, in my first ever game I did the exact same "its either you or me that gets lynched today" as town to another town player, and town ended up losing quite horribly. So who do I think is scum? Well there have been three players that I have been suspicious of so far in this game: soscannonballs posted:I don't believe the cop claim for one second. If you look at the setup there is a 50% chance of town having a cop but the scum will know for sure whether we have one based on whether or not they have a roleblocker. If the last scum is is just vanilla then we have no cop but they can claim cop and just say they investigated two townies and we have no way of verifying that. Also, I don't recall MT ever being a viable lynch candidate. Finally, if I were scum why would I write up a big case on my scum partner and push for his lynch over literally any of the other players? Why wouldn't I just let PM and MT continue to go at each other instead of trying to get them to look at other people? This is a desperate last ditch attempt by Met to stay alive.
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Sep 16, 2014 04:50
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Also, I'll probably run another open set up a bit more complicated than this in maybe october or november, who would be down to play that?
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Sep 16, 2014 04:52
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MildManeredManikin posted:Also, I'll probably run another open set up a bit more complicated than this in maybe october or november, who would be down to play that? i probably will be. Also I felt really bad for maltose, two games in a row he was the N1 kill.
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Sep 16, 2014 04:56
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Yeah, that kind of sucks but both this and your game have been really fun to spectate in.
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Sep 16, 2014 04:58
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I would definitely be up for it. I really enjoyed this game, and I was doing well at having people ignore me until sos put up that big post. Good for him!
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Sep 16, 2014 05:02
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MildManeredManikin posted:Adus, you started out rough but as there was more information on the table to work with you came to some really solid conclusions. You could be a great town player based on what I saw at the end of day two and three, if you eve play again that is. I thought your "would I lie to you" to MT about you saying you were town was loving hilarious though. it was one of those things that after i posted it i regretted it but no edits so what can you do? it made MT say some nice things about my AS game so that was cool at least! quote:The first thing that drove me mad about this game was everybody trying to figure out what the community thinks is scummy and what is towny. This is newbie game guys, this is like the only time you don't have to play within the world of the overall SA meta! Go with what you think, not what you think you should think! eh, easier said than done. i really had NO clue what i thought was scummy/towny so i could only hope to get some impressions of what those things were like in other games. i'm someone who will think himself into a circle if i don't get some reliable feedback. "x behavior seems like town behavior, but maybe that's what the scum WANTS me to think" even at the end i was contemplating the idea that sos lynched his own partner to make him look even more in the clear, because it seemed so unrealistic that scum would kill their own that it might have actually been the perfect plan? quote:Finally, holy poo poo soscannonballs, that was one of the best town games I've seen, recently at least. sos for MVP. the strong mouse case was great and i hadn't even really been thinking about him. it might have been a lot harder to pick him out if we hammered met first. also sorry i kept spelling your name wrong! i'll consider playing again sometime. not quite sure when though! thanks for the game, mmm!
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Sep 16, 2014 05:03
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I'd play another MMM game Also, I was an inch away from protecting Maltose on N1, so I facepalmed pretty drat hard when he got eaten. I just hadn't seen quite enough from him, and Carpet Shark felt safer/more vulnerable. I kinda wanted to scream at my computer when I was that fake cop claim, but I was already toast. Literally.
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Sep 16, 2014 05:06
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Adus posted:eh, easier said than done. i really had NO clue what i thought was scummy/towny so i could only hope to get some impressions of what those things were like in other games. i'm someone who will think himself into a circle if i don't get some reliable feedback. "x behavior seems like town behavior, but maybe that's what the scum WANTS me to think" It was a bit more directed at player who have played games before and were presumably trying to remember what arguments were used in those games. Still easier said then done though, because that's literally how you learn right?
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Sep 16, 2014 05:12
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If only I had gone with my 3rd choice for the N1 kill, sos would have been gone. Instead, I went for the person who hadn't tagged Met or myself, and I didn't want to choose PM or murmur because I figured (correctly) that they would keep sniping each other.
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Sep 16, 2014 05:19
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Thanks for the positive feedback. I usually have a problem making a lot of posts in these games but I was kind of forced to here since it was a bunch of newer players. Also Met's avatar just screams "scum" to me which is probably one of the reasons I went after him so early.
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Sep 16, 2014 05:25
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Adus posted:ironically i think i started to have more fun once i started getting accused? not sure how to explain that! also when met said he was a cop the pieces started to fit together for me and things were a lot less vague. I think the opposite is the case for me. When Murmur was making cases against me I knew what my motivations were so the cases seemed really flimsy, and it made me suspect them as scum. I should have thought a bit harder and realized that to any town player being accused of scum, you're going to be able to see every little hole in the case. MildManeredManikin posted:I think your biggest problem in here was accidentally giving off a scum vibe that a lot of players latched onto. And Good Lord, don't I know it. I was legitimately not worrying about whether my actions would be interpreted as scummy or not, but that doesn't mean I wasn't thinking about it. I guess I've learned that I shouldn't tell other players ALL my thought processes. ALSO, holy crap, sos, you're incredible! I've been meaning to tell you that since Strong Mouse flipped, but I didn't want to appear to be faking enthusiasm in game. So now here's my real enthusiasm: that was awesome!
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Sep 16, 2014 05:43
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soscannonballs posted:Thanks for the positive feedback. I usually have a problem making a lot of posts in these games but I was kind of forced to here since it was a bunch of newer players. Also Met's avatar just screams "scum" to me which is probably one of the reasons I went after him so early. I nearly died when I saw this, this was my first thought going into the game. It probably biased me into analyzing harder.
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Sep 16, 2014 05:44
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The Carpet Shark posted:And Good Lord, don't I know it. I was legitimately not worrying about whether my actions would be interpreted as scummy or not, but that doesn't mean I wasn't thinking about it. I guess I've learned that I shouldn't tell other players ALL my thought processes. I got really disillusioned with SA mafia because trying to be a careful town got me called scummy and mislynched all the drat time. I found it surprising in this one that being so forthright and loquacious kind of worked out. I guess it's just that eternal cliché of overthinking how you're coming across to the point of seeming the exact opposite way that you intend/hope to. I wouldn't necessarily expect it to go well with/against more experienced players, but it was a fun experiment and I'm happy it worked out.
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Sep 16, 2014 06:23
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There's no correct way to play PM. No "style of dialogue" is objectively town behaviour or objectively scum behaviour. If you're getting lynched as town for a certain playstyle, that is the fault of the people lynching you every time. For better or worse, goons are slow learners to play more games, develop a meta, and it will happen less.
Mills fucked around with this message at 06:43 on Sep 16, 2014 |
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Sep 16, 2014 06:30
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I found my games to be a lot more enjoyable when I started posting more aggressively and throwing poo poo out there rather than hanging back and being pensive. Less people thought I was scum as well. I think I pretty much hit the peak of this in twitter mafia where I made like something like 300-400 posts iirc. For reference this game had 350 posts.
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Sep 16, 2014 06:36
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And, like, 100 of them were mine.
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Sep 16, 2014 06:42
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MildManeredManikin posted:Met, Honestly you did really well considering you were on the chopping block every day. The cop claim was not the best executed manoeuvre but you did a pretty good job at intimidating players out of voting for you. I think town just got in too good of a position right at the start of this game for you to really navigate your way out of. Also the time difference thing super screwed you and I apologize for that. You have nothing to apologize for. The time difference is my issue. But it was made worse by my job unexpectedly really getting tough the past week or so. If anything, I should be the one to apologize. Had fun though. I was particularly interested in this game because I'm godawful at Mafia with very few power roles. It was a fun little rush to come up with the cop lie even of it didn't pan out... at all... Seriously I thought I at least had Murmur and The Carpet Shark would have been the difficult one to convince. I'll play any MMM game again.
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Sep 16, 2014 09:26
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MildManeredManikin posted:I found my games to be a lot more enjoyable when I started posting more aggressively and throwing poo poo out there rather than hanging back and being pensive. Less people thought I was scum as well. I think I pretty much hit the peak of this in twitter mafia where I made like something like 300-400 posts iirc. For reference this game had 350 posts. Twitter Mafia was super fun to read.
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Sep 16, 2014 13:03
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This was the most fun I've had playing Mafia so far I think a few months off plus an all-newbie game did me good. Random observations: Propaganda Machine posted:I got really disillusioned with SA mafia because trying to be a careful town got me called scummy and mislynched all the drat time. I found it surprising in this one that being so forthright and loquacious kind of worked out. I guess it's just that eternal cliché of overthinking how you're coming across to the point of seeming the exact opposite way that you intend/hope to. This used to happen to me a lot, MildManeredManikin posted:I found my games to be a lot more enjoyable when I started posting more aggressively and throwing poo poo out there rather than hanging back and being pensive. Less people thought I was scum as well. I think I pretty much hit the peak of this in twitter mafia where I made like something like 300-400 posts iirc. For reference this game had 350 posts. until this game, where I did something similar to what MMM describes. The big lesson that I learned from this game is that there's plenty to be gained from making wrong cases. In the cases of Carpet Shark (d1), PMach (d2) and Adus (d3), there was no way for me to know for sure if they were lying/scum so the only way to do it is to ask a bunch of questions and see how they handle it. The problem for me personally was keeping it all in the "only a game" mindset - in all three cases I felt like I was genuinely causing negative feelings by accusing people of scum things, and in the real world I don't like making other people feel bad. Propaganda Machine posted:I'd play another MMM game Seconded. I wouldn't have played this if MMM didn't convince me it'd be fun in the Vista. He was right! quote:I kinda wanted to scream at my computer when I was that fake cop claim, but I was already toast. Puns: the best thing since sliced bread MildManeredManikin posted:First I'll say that I feel players shouldn't be forced to withold information that is influencing them, this is why I told Murmur she could use the posting times even though in an ideal world that wouldn't be an argument I want players to make. (More importantly though, It's a bad argument! Don't use it in the future because it's bad) Next time I'll have my nights locked to an hour since that seemed to work better and I'll explain this in the op. It's funny, it's one of those things I noticed that was influencing my thoughts, so I figured in the name of "get it all out there" I'd bring it up. Even though I didn't want it to it definitely gave Met some incorrect townie points in my book. That, combined with the fact that he kept coming up with cases on people who I thought were scum but before I actually said anything, definitely blinded me to the possibility that he might be scum. Thankfully I had good townmates to keep me on track! quote:It wouldn't be a mafia game if two town players didn't tunnel the gently caress out of each other from D1 on, so thank you PMach and MT for keeping this game rolling along. It was very enjoyable to watch play out and I'm glad you eventually realized that it was happening sort of. Also it was pretty great that on day two you guys produced Strong Mouse and Met as the lunch candidates and were both correct but totally divided. I couldn't help it: with seven left I kept mentally comparing the game to a Survivor final seven with a (sos/me/Met) alliance and a (PM/Shark/Mouse) alliance, with Adus kind of in the middle as a swing vote. That mental image is actually what made me start to suspect Adus D3 - letting two sides go at each other without taking a solid stance was, in my head, a good way to survive as scum. It ended up being good that there was a scum on each "side" - no matter which side the townies fell on, we had someone to correctly focus our suspicion on. quote:MT, you started off poorly I think, I'm not really counting the first case since that one is always going to be bad (and thank you for starting the actual game btw) As the game progressed though you started pulling out better and better reads, like pushing hard for Strong Mouse. The final day where you saw through Met's cop claim was really impressive, especially since you already had such a strong town read on him. Looking back at it, I've never really been correct at finding scum based on reading tones or finding tells. The big thing that usually sells me is finding contradictions or inexplicable behavior in a suspect, which is why making people talk so much is a good thing. In Strong Mouse's case, the fact that (a) he listed Carpet Shark as second-scummiest but (b) wouldn't vote for anyone besides Met seemed off to me - of course, part of this is that I thought Met was town at the time. Oops! And in Met's case, voting for sos instead of Adus without even trying to address my Adus case seemed fishy. And the real nail in the coffin to me was the little part was him saying he copped me after I almost got lynched (even though he himself earlier said I was nowhere near being lynched). quote:Adus, you started out rough but as there was more information on the table to work with you came to some really solid conclusions. You could be a great town player based on what I saw at the end of day two and three, if you eve play again that is. I thought your "would I lie to you" to MT about you saying you were town was loving hilarious though. I swear going from Survivor to Mafia can be a tough transition! quote:The Carpet Shark, ..., saying that you know me personally is an impressively ballsy lie for a new player to make as town Haha holy poo poo - that was a lie? Kid's got moxie  quote:Met, Honestly you did really well considering you were on the chopping block every day. The cop claim was not the best executed manoeuvre but you did a pretty good job at intimidating players out of voting for you. I think town just got in too good of a position right at the start of this game for you to really navigate your way out of. Also the time difference thing super screwed you and I apologize for that. Met posted:Here's the scumdoc. I believed in you!  I think you would have had a better shot if you tried to lynch Adus instead of sos when you made the cop case, or to just keep agreeing with me instead of claiming cop. I was super sure you were town until that point. Food for thought for next time. quote:Finally, holy poo poo soscannonballs, that was one of the best town games I've seen, recently at least. You got a bit sidetracked at points but I'll just lay some quotes down: For real! When Met tried to go after sos I read him and just thought "I've never been more sure of someone as town in my life". And that was super-relevant because it made me dismiss Met's cop claim. MMM has officially made me want to start playing Mafia again. We'll see if I'm thanking him or cursing him for it in a few months! I hope to see all of you guys in future games down the road
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Sep 16, 2014 16:40
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| # ? Apr 20, 2024 05:08 |
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Hey Murmur, I felt the same worry about it being personal when I was going after you, so it's very relieving to hear you say it. Not taking things personally seems really key here.
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Sep 16, 2014 18:14
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