Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Locked thread
The Carpet Shark
Sep 2, 2014

:coolfish:
Hello I would like to join this game.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

The Carpet Shark
Sep 2, 2014

:coolfish:
Confirmed.

Falling in line with my motto 'if it ain't smothered in garlic, I won't eat it', my best bread is a soft garlic bread with a hard crust.

The Carpet Shark
Sep 2, 2014

:coolfish:

Adus posted:

are bagels really bread, though? they're some sort of mutant amalgamation as far as i'm concerned.

I wasn't allowed to have bagels growing up because my mom thought pretty much the same thing.

The Carpet Shark
Sep 2, 2014

:coolfish:

Strong Mouse posted:

If we are counting bagels as bread, does that mean cinnamon rolls are as well?

Because they are wonderful.

I was going to say cinnamon rolls for my bread, but then I figured they wouldn't count. I feel that would be a little unfair to all the other types of bread, since cinnamon rolls would clearly wipe the floor with them.

The Carpet Shark
Sep 2, 2014

:coolfish:

Murmur Twin posted:

I'm still going with Prop! Not because I'm super sure she's scum or anything but until I hear non-bread related things I feel like my gut is all I have. That said, there's plenty of time for discussion.

I get the vibe they're town, if only because their posts seem lighthearted but not forced. Not to mention there wasn't much going on before PM went full bread.

The Carpet Shark
Sep 2, 2014

:coolfish:

Mr. Maltose posted:

That is a good point, since this is Most Newest Mafia the appeal to lurk out as scum may be too tempting.

Well, I know in my case I'm just afraid of saying something regular stupid as opposed to scum stupid. Especially since the last time I used a forum I was 13. And it was a forum for a comic about anthro cats.

The Carpet Shark
Sep 2, 2014

:coolfish:

TwelveBaud posted:


I'm thinking Prop is the most likely scum. She's making easy-to-make calls like uncritically calling out lurkers. And her bread chat was about expanding the classification of bread and being light-hearted about butter (when only one other person has mentioned spreadable substances); even though it wasn't directly about town versus scum, it was using the metaphor this game is based around in a calculating attempt to try to dilute "towndom" and de-fang "scumdom".


I don't see calling out the lurkers as particularly scummy, especially if the intent was to get them to post more which is what it looked like to me. Am I completely off-base here?

The Carpet Shark
Sep 2, 2014

:coolfish:

soscannonballs posted:

The only thing thats happened so far that I thought was interesting was people going back to bread chat after Murmur Twin started trying to make a case. As far as lurker chat goes, in the other games I played the consensus was that lurker lynches were usually a bad idea because its easy and doesn't give town something to go back and look at in the later days to make connections.

Hmm, that return to bread talk would have been Met, but Murmur Twin directly asked if anyone else had bread things to share after posting their case:

Murmur Twin posted:

Adus/anyone else, any leads and/or stories about their favorite type of bread?

The Carpet Shark
Sep 2, 2014

:coolfish:
Not terrible logic. They also asked for leads, but I guess that would be a pretty good way of keeping things ambiguous.
They went out of thread to find PMs posting patterns which seems like something you might do if you needed a case and wanted to appear to be making a good town effort. That combined with the return to bread could indicate something?

The Carpet Shark
Sep 2, 2014

:coolfish:
To be honest, Met, I think you're posting about as much as the other newbies.

The Carpet Shark
Sep 2, 2014

:coolfish:

Met posted:

Unless they want us to think that and are actually money... unless they knew we'd think that.

Does money = scum?

The Carpet Shark
Sep 2, 2014

:coolfish:

Met posted:

I'm 12 hours off of EST. I'm up all night, baby.

Oh crap, apologies for completely missing the 'Australia' bit in your one post. Now things are making more sense.

The Carpet Shark
Sep 2, 2014

:coolfish:

Met posted:

That was just a joke on the Wallace Shawn character going off on some tangent about Australia while trying to figure out which glass was poisoned.

Oh God... Then never mind... I am an idiot...

The Carpet Shark
Sep 2, 2014

:coolfish:

Murmur Twin posted:


a - asking a lot of questions to keep the conversation moving without needing to worry about lying
b - defending people who I "thought were town" - since I wasn't wrong there was less pressure than accusing someone of being scum who I knew wasn't
c - not making specific cases on people under the guise of "but I'm not sure yet!"

I feel like I'm seeing that with Carpet Shark right now and have him down as "likely scum".


Keep in mind, I have absolutely nothing to go off of except my own intuition when it comes to scummy behavior. I can't use scum modus operandi to make my cases since I have no idea what it looks like, which leaves me with 'what doesn't make sense right now for someone to be doing?' The problem is that I've been afraid I'd mistake town behaviour for scum behaviour. I've been asking questions so that I know I am not barking up the wrong tree. Essentially I am trying to use questions like 'am I completely off base?' to say 'is this opinion really stupid guys?'

As for defending people, I have mostly been discussing PM and that's because I was getting a pretty solid town read off of her. It makes things a bit easier if we can figure out who to rule out for now.

And I wasn't sure yet! But things are starting to get more intense now, and I think I've got a few ideas.

The Carpet Shark
Sep 2, 2014

:coolfish:

Murmur Twin posted:

May I ask specifically who, if anyone, you think is scummiest right now?

Met looked suspicious to me earlier. Originally when I called them out, as seen above, I was just pointing out that they also were on par with us newbies at that point. But after I posted it I realized that most of the newbies had at least been posting about game related stuff and seemed engaged. That set off alarm bells. I was waiting for Met to post more and they did last night at which point they explained that they live in a different time zone. But then after they got online they were still posting a bunch of nothing which confirmed stuff for me. At that point I was away from my computer and tired, so I figured I'd post in the morning. Then I slept in until 3 by accident.

TwelveBaud's whole butter thing against PM was so weird that I really have no idea. I would vote vote Met before them.

I don't know if I'd vote Murmur Twin out this round. I know it would benefit me to say they've been acting super scummy but there isn't enough there for me to feel it's conclusive. There were a couple things that seemed off, but they've been making their own cases and they haven't been fixated on any one person as far as I can tell.

The Carpet Shark
Sep 2, 2014

:coolfish:

soscannonballs posted:

Met did have an opportunity though.

I think the rest of us are making a pretty solid effort at looking for scum, and there was information circling that he could have made an argument from when he posted. I'm unimpressed so far, and of course I am willing to change my mind if he posts some meaningful stuff tonight, but he's firmly topping my list at the moment.

The Carpet Shark
Sep 2, 2014

:coolfish:
(oh god, can someone help me, i don't know how to cast a vote, do i just do two pound signs and bold it? does it automatically bold?)

The Carpet Shark
Sep 2, 2014

:coolfish:

soscannonballs posted:

I feel like we have a pretty good chance of hitting scum if we disregard the top and bottom two posters and examine those who remaining. Here is the list as of right now:

The Carpet Shark
Mr. Maltose
Soscannonballs
Murmur Twin
Met


If there are two scum in the whole group, and you take a sample of over half group, of course there's a good chance of hitting scum. This doesn't tell us anything at all.

Anyway, I'm gonna ##vote Met based on my reasoning from my earlier post.

The Carpet Shark
Sep 2, 2014

:coolfish:
I'm fine with switching to Twelvebaud, if that's our pick.

##unvote Met

##vote TwelveBaud

The Carpet Shark
Sep 2, 2014

:coolfish:

soscannonballs posted:

That was a very dumb hammer vote.

My thoughts exactly.

I was under the impression we were waiting to hear from our voting candidates before slamming things down.

The Carpet Shark
Sep 2, 2014

:coolfish:

Propaganda Machine posted:

but neither of them showed up.

I thought we had over an hour left. At the risk of being accused of asking too many questions, is it normally considered bad to wait until the final hour when voting in mafia?

The Carpet Shark
Sep 2, 2014

:coolfish:

Murmur Twin posted:

Red flags here. Can you explain what you mean by 'it would benefit me'?

You were making a case against me, PM was making one arguing that you might be scum and that you were trying to incriminate the two of us. If I had said 'YEAH, Murmur Twin sure is acting scummy!' then your case against me would seem less sound. But I didn't feel you were acting as scummy as PM seemed to think you were.

The Carpet Shark
Sep 2, 2014

:coolfish:

Met posted:


Like this. Pretty loving trusty. "Oh, Twelvebud is our pick? I'll switch off this guy and vote Twelvebud out then. NO PROBLEM."

The Carpet Shark is my pick for today.


Yeah, after I voted and then TwelveBaud was hammered quick as hell I definitely regretted switching so quickly. It was an unwise move on my part, and it I later realized it opened the floor to scum players switching or voting and feeling safer about it. I'm still learning, though, and I should've trusted my gut more when I was voting. If I were scum I never would have made that move for fear of people accusing me. But frankly, that has not been something I have had to worry about other than the passing thought of 'oh man, I hope they don't accidentally vote ME out'.

Also, TwelveBaud was my second pick anyway. I definitely felt there was less to go on with them than there was with you, Met, but I was way less sure about every other player in the game and we were establishing that it was important to not end up in a situation where nobody was voted out.

The Carpet Shark
Sep 2, 2014

:coolfish:

Murmur Twin posted:


What you said to Met directly contradicts what you said to me (regarding whether you're thinking of self-preservation, which is a scum trait).

##vote The Carpet Shark - I'm putting this here so it's clear where I stand.

What, that it would benefit me? It would've. Not to mention that you, Murmur, were the one putting me in the line of fire last time. It's a weird topsy-turvy game you're playing here, as far as I see it. Why would I have not just gone ahead and argued alongside PM for voting you out, were I scum? Like I said before, it would have made your case against me look weaker, and there would be no reason to point out it was a move that benefitted me. Also, when you are town self-preservation does play a part in your game, even if it is not the top priority. Maybe I'm still too naive at this point, but I've been playing under the impression that the town killing each other is bad, and have thus thought about what would benefit me in terms of not being booted from the game, as I am part of the town. Am I overly concerned about being accused? No, if the other townies end up killing me off they'll at least realize they done goofed, and that they need to rethink things.

I'm starting to wonder if you don't think of me as a threat that needs to be eliminated since I supported PM on certain things and you seem to have had some interest in voting her off. And since the general read on PM is town, maybe you think it's best to immediately follow Mets actions with someone who looks worse in the town's eyes at the moment.

The Carpet Shark
Sep 2, 2014

:coolfish:
I'm phone posting, so I'm not gonna quote, but I realized that in that last paragraph the language I used made it sound like I meant ''does not see me as a threat' when I meant the opposite. Apologies if that was confusing.

The Carpet Shark
Sep 2, 2014

:coolfish:

Murmur Twin posted:


If you're town and you think I'm town - I don't see how trying to shift the lynch from one town to another helps uncover scum?
If you're town and you think I'm scum - Then you would have had a case against me and I'd assume we'dve heard it.
If you're scum and you know I'm town - THEN it would benefit you to try and discredit me.


When I first read the above post I then moved on to your later post and addressed that one instead, but I can address this one too because the more I read your arguments against me, the more suspicious I get. At first I thought 'Well, I'd better tell Murmur what my motivations were' but now I'm wondering a whole lot more about your motivations.

So the first outlined scenario was: I'm town and I think you're town - But I had my doubts about you being town, as seen in this quote which you yourself quoted earlier so you'd be hard-pressed to argue you forgot.

The Carpet Shark posted:

I don't know if I'd vote Murmur Twin out this round. I know it would benefit me to say they've been acting super scummy but there isn't enough there for me to feel it's conclusive. There were a couple things that seemed off, but they've been making their own cases and they haven't been fixated on any one person as far as I can tell.

While I wasn't comfortable voting you out because I felt there was too high a risk at that point, I was definitely not convinced of your innocence.

And of course shifting the lynch off of myself would have been beneficial: the only person who I know is town is myself! How could I possibly guarantee you're town, even if I wasn't doubting it at the time? But you weren't in my very top picks, so even though I was not convinced of your towniness I wasn't about to point my finger at you.

So scenario two: I'm town and I think you're scum - You might assume we would hear a case, but that is, you know, an assumption. Remember, a few of us here are REALLY new. Feeling out all the nuances of the tipping point from 'vague scum vibe' to 'I bet this person is scum!' is a tough business so I think even if it's not ideal for the game in general that a few of us have been more hesitant to make cases, I definitely don't see it as an automatic downvote into SCUM TERRITORY. It looks like you were trying to erroneously rule out options so that you could more easily point to me as scum.

And if I were scum it would benefit me to discredit you - but I didn't. :shrug:

The Carpet Shark
Sep 2, 2014

:coolfish:
Also I don't want to count my chicks before they hatch but it's interesting to see that the voting inclination has broken out perfectly into people who I semi-trusted and people who I didn't trust at all. Take what you will from that.

The Carpet Shark
Sep 2, 2014

:coolfish:

Murmur Twin posted:

If you're town, act like town! Can you please make a case on the person you think is scummiest? If it's me that's totally fine, just please have better reasons that are better than hypothetical situations? Show me that you're reading the game hunting for clues.

Same request goes out to everyone, actually.

Saying things like 'if you're town act like town!' is really frustrating. I get that my case wasn't up to your standards. That's fine, it's on me to make a good case. But trying to prod me into behaving like a better town person doesn't work when I have no basis for how to do so. How am I supposed to know what thing you are next going to decide isn't just the right shade of town for you? Like the time I asked a question?? I have navigated this game honestly, albeit foolishly, and I really am trying my best. I apologise to you, Murmur, and the rest of you, if I am being too irritating with my lack of understanding of the nuances of the game, and I am glad to be playing because I am learning.

The Carpet Shark
Sep 2, 2014

:coolfish:

Murmur Twin posted:

Quick time-out here:

And I will say that right now I do still have you high on my list and to please not take any of this personally because at the end of the day it's all about having fun.


Don't worry, I wasn't upset that I'm on your list nor did I think you were targeting me for a personal reason. And I definitely appreciated what you wrote, Murmur. I think I did indeed forgot I was supposed to be having fun with this, and the game started to overwhelm me a bit. I'm going to try and clear my head and take things more lightly from now on.

That being said, I'm going out to dinner tonight for my father's birthday and I'm not going to be available again until tomorrow morning. I hope you guys all have a good night!

The Carpet Shark
Sep 2, 2014

:coolfish:

Met posted:


We can play the WIFOM game and say either way is reasonable for a Mafia to play or we can just assume he's a new player and asked in the game thread. You could also say it's weird he didn't simply PM the Mod.


I know the Mod personally and was aware he was at work at the time, so I figured that since the nature of the game is for new players to learn, someone might be able to help me out.

Then I figured it out myself because I looked at the little BBcode article and discovered that square brackets work here, as opposed to <b>.

The Carpet Shark
Sep 2, 2014

:coolfish:
Met has made an argument against me that seemed reasonable in it's logic, but his later backing of essentially 'you're all dumb if you don't think my opinions are correct' was pretty weak. My worry is that he's actually just a bit of a grumpy dude, but if he's not I would bet he's scum trying to sound assertive and make us feel foolish and second-guess ourselves when we don't agree with him. I could vote his way.

Strong Mouse gave me a town vibe at the beginning of this game, but as soscannonballs pointed out, they've really been jumping around with their opinions and never seem to want to settle on saying anything that hasn't been prompted by other players. I am nervous about voting this way, so I'm going to give the thread another re-read.

I'm inclined to believe soscannonballs is town. Since I was unable to glean anything personal from their posts I found them the most confusing player in terms of whether they were scum or town, and earlier this led me to distrust them a whole lot. Their actions, though, have all fallen in line with a town game as far as I can see, and have for the most part made sense to me. Since actions speak louder than a brusque posting style I feel their case against Strong Mouse is genuine.

Another thing worrying me is that Strong Mouse is voting for Met. D:

The Carpet Shark
Sep 2, 2014

:coolfish:
Well, I mean I'm super hesitant to vote with Murmur or Strong Mouse but since they're on either side now it doesn't really matter anymore and I kind of just have to go with my gut.

I'm going to go with ##vote Met despite the fact that Met and Murmur would both love to both chime in with how I am clearly PM's scumbro. I've naturally got a level of distrust for people voting me out, and while I think his reason for pointing suspicion my way didn't read scummy to me, it seems weird to use that as the sole point for voting against me and I can't help but wonder about the 'you fools!' attitude he's taken.

The Carpet Shark
Sep 2, 2014

:coolfish:

Adus posted:

well i guess if i were to vote met now it would bring the hammer down and we still have 50 minutes. i imagine he can't post right now? seems kinda lame that he gets so few chances to defend himself but my feelings aren't particularly strong toward anyone else.

will give it a bit more time.

Yeah, I'm kind of concerned that we keep voting people who can't for whatever reason get in to discuss things? But I just don't feel confident with Strong Mouse, and a no-lynch with so few people seems like a really bad idea!

The Carpet Shark
Sep 2, 2014

:coolfish:
In the meantime I'll say, re-reading the Strong Mouse posts I am actually now super unsure and am feeling they might be scum! I know sos pointed out the whole saying TwelveBaud didn't feel scummy and then switching and starting the vote against them thing, but I sometimes have trouble parsing long passages of information so when I went over the the whole thread myself, I caught that same thing and it stuck out to me so much. I know they defended it with a fourteen hour time difference, but it still seems strange to me to cast that original vote instead of waiting, especially when we had so much time left that time, I don't know. What are you guys thinking right now?

The Carpet Shark
Sep 2, 2014

:coolfish:

Murmur Twin posted:

Same thing I said to Carpet Mouse: all I am doing is trying to determine whose role PMs say butter instead of bread.

Oh no, I hope you have not been getting us mixed up too much!
(I do understand why you would though, they are kind of similar names)

The Carpet Shark
Sep 2, 2014

:coolfish:

Adus posted:

to vote strong mouse would essentially be assuming that pm is scum as well since she's his only real possible partner at this point. or so it seems?

decisions decisions...

Well, if Strong Mouse flips town it'll confirm for me that Murmur's scum. If Strong Mouse flips scum then I'm definitely thinking PM is scum. And this:

Murmur Twin posted:


I think PM's scum game involves being antagonistic towards people who go against her (me and Met) while being encouraging to you (Carpet Shark) so you agree with her.

Is actually something I have been wondering about, and has been keeping PM on my radar!

The Carpet Shark
Sep 2, 2014

:coolfish:

Met posted:

We have no scum down yet to compare, but Carpet Shark and Props are playing off each other while throwing accusations at every person going by to see what sticks. I call bragging points if they both turn out to be scum. Shame on one if the other is scum and leading them on.

I made the following post at the end of Day 2 but didn't end up posting it because of the time constraints and I was going back and forth so much on whether I felt Strong Mouse or Met was scum. But apparently these three posts were the glaring indicators of my scumbro alliance with PM-

[quote="”The Carpet Shark”" post="”434671802”"]
I don’t see calling out the lurkers as particularly scummy, especially if the intent was to get them to post more which is what it looked like to me. Am I completely off-base here?
[/quote]

[quote="”The Carpet Shark”" post="”434668055”"]
I get the vibe they’re town, if only because their posts seem lighthearted but not forced. Not to mention there wasn’t much going on before PM went full bread.
[/quote]

[quote="”The Carpet Shark”" post="”434707200”"]
As for defending people, I have mostly been discussing PM and that’s because I was getting a pretty solid town read off of her. It makes things a bit easier if we can figure out who to rule out for now.
[/quote]

And I guess also the fact that PM said she got a town vibe off me.

My real question is why would scum vote PM? A few people mentioned she was going to look pretty suspicious if Strong Mouse flipped scum, so why would they eliminate someone the town had established they might vote for?

The Carpet Shark
Sep 2, 2014

:coolfish:

Murmur Twin posted:

Given that sos played a huge rule in getting Monkey lynched, and that Met is the person that known scum Monkey was trying to target, I feel very confident that the two of them are town.

Jesus, Murmur, how high are you?

Anyway, your post has definitely given me some food for thought.

The Carpet Shark
Sep 2, 2014

:coolfish:

Adus posted:

4. they figured we'd guess a scum would not make the hammer vote on their own ally and therefore come to the conclusion that PM was most certainly town therefore making her the most appealing choice to kill.

If PM had survived I would have thought that the last minute switch by PM was because I was going to switch to Strong Mouse, and she just wanted to take the opportunity to look good if her partner was pretty much guaranteed to go down anyway. Of course, this wasn't the case but I don't think it's too difficult to logic out, so I was pretty shocked to see PM go. I don't know, it just feels really weird.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

The Carpet Shark
Sep 2, 2014

:coolfish:

Murmur Twin posted:

My theory is that Adus thought that Carpet Shark was going to vote for Strong Mouse, so he was trying to reinforce the notion that PM and Mouse were scum together. That way, me/Met/Shark/sos all vote and hammer Strong Mouse and it's a super easy sell to frame PM on D3. I think that she messed up this plan by beating Shark to the hammer and leaving him without someone to frame.

Then he got nervous, overthought it, and nked PM, thinking we wouldn't suspect PM anymore once she had switched for scummy Strong Mouse. I suppose that last minute switch might not ping your radar as possibly scummy if you knew who the scum were.

I'm digging this, it seems to answer my question pretty darn well!

  • Locked thread