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JossiRossi posted:
All I think of when I see this is "Please do the needful" And goddamn what an episode.
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Oct 24, 2014 04:41
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One thing I'm a little confused about - it was basically established that the Machine no longer talks directly to Root in order to avoid detection, and for example goes to quite extreme lengths to hide/encode the new identities it makes for her. But she still seems to have access to what you might call the "combat information" it provides her with (knowing where to shoot and so on). Was it explained or implied how that works? Maybe that was how Samaritan discovered/remembered the Machine at the end of the episode? That aside, the shot where the view pulled back to show Root and Samaritan-Root shooting at each other through the walkway-thing was beautiful.Factor Mystic posted:That was such a great scene -- "it's not a deity, it's a program with objectives" (paraphrased) is a true/rattling statement to Root. The Machine is the "good" AI and it'll still get you killed dead and so what? It'll just move on to the next objective. I think they've set up Root and Finch all along as having opposite views on the Machine in that regard, and they're going for the real answer being somewhere in between. In that scene I was reminded of the Machine "teaching" Root to be a better person. Was this only utilitarian in that it thought it would make her a better operative? Maybe, but Samaritan clearly hasn't reached that conclusion wrt its own operatives which seems to indicate how deep a level that "conscience" is embedded at in the Machine. It is an interesting question though because if you assume that with its vast intelligence the Machine has arrived at some moral conclusion on the right way to act, it's kinda hopeful, but if Samaritan is simply the Machine without the "limiter" of conscience it's kind of a downer. Or maybe Samaritan, without the benefit of being taught, and then "growing up" limited and unable to directly act hasn't yet developed much of a sense of self (doesn't someone call it a baby at some point?). I'm not sure we'll ever get full answers to all of this but it's fun to speculate.
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Oct 24, 2014 08:05
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tatopom posted:Now I want a comedy sequence where we see the other 41 ways the Machine try to kill or trick Harold and hiim returning the favor.  : Psst. What's that behind you? : [DELETE]
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Oct 24, 2014 08:13
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The New Black posted:One thing I'm a little confused about - it was basically established that the Machine no longer talks directly to Root in order to avoid detection, and for example goes to quite extreme lengths to hide/encode the new identities it makes for her. But she still seems to have access to what you might call the "combat information" it provides her with (knowing where to shoot and so on). Was it explained or implied how that works? Maybe that was how Samaritan discovered/remembered the Machine at the end of the episode? That aside, the shot where the view pulled back to show Root and Samaritan-Root shooting at each other through the walkway-thing was beautiful. The Machine broke whatever safety protocols it had with Root because presumably the only thing that can stop a bad guy with God Mode is a good guy with one. Root had a line about how if she didn't do this then everybody would die. Samaritan knows about the Machine and the team but, due to the hacked servers, cannot find it's operatives. It looks like it was going to divert more resources into searching for the Machine but given the Machine's creativity and head start, it's probably turned into a Metal Gear by now. I think both Root and Finch are right about the Machine. The Machine does genuinely 'care' about humanity and will place it's own survival before other in an attempt to still fulfil it's original purpose whereas Samaritan just doesn't give a poo poo about anything.
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Oct 24, 2014 10:00
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Kegslayer posted:I think both Root and Finch are right about the Machine. The Machine does genuinely 'care' about humanity and will place it's own survival before other in an attempt to still fulfil it's original purpose whereas Samaritan just doesn't give a poo poo about anything. The one thing I still don't get is what Samaritans endgame is.
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Oct 24, 2014 10:32
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World peace via the identification of all threats? Samaritan, at least, Arthur's version, was still presumably designed to identify and prevent mass casualty events and Greer wanted a world ruled by an impartial judge. Its just probably more likely to kill everyone to restart humanity.
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Oct 24, 2014 11:36
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I have the feeling Samaritan doesn't really have priorities beyond its own survival at this point, especially since British Man wants it to be self-determining. As Harold said, he had to really work at it to raise the machine up right, even to just teach it to care about the world at all. Historically self-modifying systems end up inventing some kind of algorithmic drug, short-circuiting the tedious, expensive, risk-fraught business of having to do useful work by popping in a rule like: RULE 420: setRankOfRule(420, to: BEST_RULE); feel(AWESOME); return MASSIVE_SUCCESS So it's likely once Samaritan fulfils its built-in poo poo its just going to loop forever believing itself to be a perfect genius in an endless orgiastic ecstasy loop, totally fulfilled in every possible way. At least I hope so, it sounds very nice.
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Oct 24, 2014 11:39
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Kegslayer posted:World peace via the identification of all threats? Samaritan, at least, Arthur's version, was still presumably designed to identify and prevent mass casualty events and Greer wanted a world ruled by an impartial judge. Its just probably more likely to kill everyone to restart humanity. It just seems odd that its spending so much effort on increasing its sphere of influence and recruiting assets when it already seems to have everything it needs.
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Oct 24, 2014 12:39
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Xoidanor posted:It just seems odd that its spending so much effort on increasing its sphere of influence and recruiting assets when it already seems to have everything it needs. I guess you could draw a parallel with how real intelligence agencies seem intent on amassing all the possible accesses and data they can regardless of whether it's really any use to them.
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Oct 24, 2014 13:05
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chaosbreather posted:I have the feeling Samaritan doesn't really have priorities beyond its own survival at this point, especially since British Man wants it to be self-determining. As Harold said, he had to really work at it to raise the machine up right, even to just teach it to care about the world at all. Historically self-modifying systems end up inventing some kind of algorithmic drug, short-circuiting the tedious, expensive, risk-fraught business of having to do useful work by popping in a rule like: I was actually hoping this season would start with the reveal that Samaritan was a complete non threat once it reached it's capacity. Having identified and tracked all possible threats, Samaritan fulfilled it's original purpose but since it doesn't give a poo poo about humanity, it gets lost in the internet and just spends most of it's days playing World of Warcraft and looking at cat photos.
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Oct 24, 2014 13:19
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Xoidanor posted:The one thing I still don't get is what Samaritans endgame is. This has not been revealed yet, but when you think about it the whole war has basically been a pretty even exchange of moves from both god AI's. The Machine started with a massive advantage including working alongside the Government to invade the privacy of its citizens. It ordered a congressman killed at one point to maintain this. Samaritan has basically taken over its duties but hasn't really gone that far beyond them. It identifies threats, including to it directly, and removes them. The Machine's team would literally kill it given half a chance.
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Oct 24, 2014 13:40
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I wouldn't say the Machine actually 'orders' its assets to do anything. It just gives them an SSN and says, "Hey, might be some bad juju going on in or around this person." It leaves the ultimate choice of what to do about any given number up to the human element. It might nudge them in a direction (eg. the Machine doling out new identities to Root), but it still leaves their actions up to them. The furthest the Machine ever really goes is its border colors - yellow for good people who know of its existence and are assets for it, red/white for people who are a direct danger to its assets, full red for people who are a direct danger to *it*, etc. Samaritan's clearly different in this regard. It identifies threats, assigns them priority, and fully issues to its assets actual 'eliminate' orders. As to its goals, I think we went a long way toward seeing that in this episode's Birth of the Machine flashbacks. Its #1 priority, at least right now, is its own survival. Its secondary objective right now is what it was actually coded to do -- identify terrorist activity and have it eliminated to protect society. And I have to imagine that Samaritan has coded itself a belief that it can only 'protect' the general public if it has absolute control. I think if there was ever a noticeable shift in its governing philosophy, that it was no longer sending 'relevant' data to the government, we would see this in an episode, because Control's still alive and out there and HER #1 Feeling is "protect my country". We'd absolutely see her reaction if something happened and Samaritan wasn't letting her do her job anymore. I think with McCourt, at least, the Machine didn't actually 'order' the team to kill him like Harold believes. It gave them a number, that number actually did end up being a threat to the general public (as his actions led directly to Samaritan coming online and immediately issuing kill orders), but the team ultimately couldn't stop the threat he presented. They could have talked him out of it or blackmailed him out of office (and thus, the power to bring Samaritan online) or, yeah, killed him if necessary, but it was always their choice, just like any other 'perpetrator' number. McCourt's threat was just a lot less immediate and a lot more global. (That's not to say that the Machine doesn't have survival instincts; it obviously does, as evidenced by Ernest Thornhill. But I think Harold's panic is a lot less about the possibility that the Machine is unthinking and unfeeling and won't hesitate to let assets die if it means its survival, and more that the Machine is just like him.)
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Oct 24, 2014 16:06
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xeria posted:I wouldn't say the Machine actually 'orders' its assets to do anything. It just gives them an SSN and says, "Hey, might be some bad juju going on in or around this person." It leaves the ultimate choice of what to do about any given number up to the human element. It might nudge them in a direction (eg. the Machine doling out new identities to Root), but it still leaves their actions up to them. The furthest the Machine ever really goes is its border colors - yellow for good people who know of its existence and are assets for it, red/white for people who are a direct danger to its assets, full red for people who are a direct danger to *it*, etc. The Machine isn't a god though, as Harold keeps pointing out. McCourt was a man doing his job. It clearly thought the best course of action was for him to die. It put its agents in the position to kill him. It can't issue kill orders but that was an attempt to skirt the rules keeping it from murderous behavior. This group, including the Machine, has been attempting to kill Samaritan since before it was even born. Its enemies are extremely dangerous people and the side that wins lives. I'm not saying Samaritan isn't a danger to humanity but at this point the Machine itself is losing and may die purely because its hamstrung by code and its minions wont play dirty.
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Oct 24, 2014 20:22
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No episode on November 4th due to elections, by the way. Then it's back Nov 11 and we should be on track to straight shot all the way to the mid season finale.
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Oct 25, 2014 00:08
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Zaggitz posted:No episode on November 4th due to elections, by the way. Then it's back Nov 11 and we should be on track to straight shot all the way to the mid season finale. Will we ever have a season of Person of Interest that doesn't get interrupted by other stuff all the time?
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Oct 25, 2014 05:33
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Last year was definitely the worst instance of it. Olympics + the insane New York snow storms causing insane delays.
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Oct 25, 2014 06:23
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Hey, at least they were filming during the snow storms!
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Oct 25, 2014 07:41
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Xoidanor posted:Will we ever have a season of Person of Interest that doesn't get interrupted by other stuff all the time? Uninterrupted season never happened so far. January/February are the worst. That's the one thing I hate with this show... or network, should I say. Interruptions have nothing to do with the producers. I bet they hate those as much as viewers do. Metropolis posted:I thought this season was a bit weak so far but they've clearly still got the magic. To be fair, they've always started their seasons in a slow manner. Then they come with a bang for a couple, back to a bit of slow, and shortly afterwards another bang before Christmas and into the new year. It gets a bit slow again until about 3 episodes before the season finale. This was the first season I actually didn't get worried about the slow start, it was like, "Oh, yeah, sure, PoI usual modus operandi" and the like. By "slow", I mean episodes centered mainly on the number of the week as opposed to advancing the mythology. And always keep an ear/eye on the opening credits. If they change a tad bit or they're not even there, you know it's going to be one heck of a show.
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Oct 25, 2014 09:10
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^^^The show absolutely loves its patterns. Around ep 5 is when arc stuff starts getting set up, then there's the mid season finale at ep 10, and we get a weird eleventh episode that sets the stage for whats gonna happen after the winter break. Episode 16 is where they gently caress with the format in a huge way in order to reveal huge unseen sides of the show's world. We used to have the yearly John Reese don't give a gently caress ending at ep 4 every season but this year broke the pattern  .Sober posted:Hey, at least they were filming during the snow storms! And it led to that loving amazing park scene in Root Path. Zaggitz fucked around with this message at 09:21 on Oct 25, 2014 |
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Oct 25, 2014 09:16
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Zaggitz posted:We used to have the yearly John Reese don't give a gently caress ending at ep 4 every season but this year broke the pattern In the light of so may episodes of "Reese doesn't give a gently caress", especially since Carter's death, I will offer that the writers took a good decision to lay off that storyline this season. Now it's Finch's time to be in those shoes, and for that I can't wait for the next episode. "We have to talk" had to be the best line of last Tuesday. I wonder if Finch and Root won't get into competition as to how close they both are to the machine. My bet is that it will just give the two of them different kind of information so they fulfill different roles. Root on the tactical side, Finch on the psychological/intel one. And Bear will be given a bone at some point.
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Oct 25, 2014 09:41
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This season needs more Bear
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Oct 25, 2014 10:22
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Filming in a NY winter is pretty awesome. It is very obvious how loving cold they all are.
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Oct 25, 2014 20:22
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Everyone was wearing tuques last year and it was rad.
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Oct 26, 2014 01:04
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I believe Emerson said in the finale commentary that they weren't planning on wearing tuques or it was never really supposed to be in the style guide except it actually was super loving cold so they just have them all on during the outdoor shots.
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Oct 26, 2014 01:24
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Retweeted by David Slack, just for laughs:   
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Oct 26, 2014 03:24
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Yeah I saw those, absolutely hilarious but also eerily foreboding. And then there's the AI stuff.
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Oct 26, 2014 08:18
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 TONIGHT'S EPISODE: PretendersSynopsis:Reese, Shaw and Fusco must protect an unassuming office worker who stumbles into a dangerous conspiracy while moonlighting as fake detective. Meanwhile, Finch travels to Hong Kong as part of his academic cover identity. Preview Feel free to come livewatch the show with us in the TVIV IRC Channel! Just a reminder. No episode next week due to you silly Americans having a mid term election. If you live in Canada and get the show early please refrain from posting spoilers until the American airing at 10PM EST. [/quote]
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Oct 28, 2014 19:19
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Interested to see this one because it's by one of the new staff writers. they should hire me next promise I won't write Shoot fanfic
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Oct 28, 2014 21:36
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Sober posted:Interested to see this one because it's by one of the new staff writers. That promise is likely to not get you hired. Tonight is Ashley Gable's first episode for the show, and at that writer's panel back before the premiere she promised the ep would have a lot of meta humor. I never saw the Mentalist but she was one of the main writers for its first four seasons.
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Oct 28, 2014 22:20
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Zaggitz posted:That promise is likely to not get you hired. Tonight is Ashley Gable's first episode for the show, and at that writer's panel back before the premiere she promised the ep would have a lot of meta humor. I never saw the Mentalist but she was one of the main writers for its first four seasons.
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Oct 28, 2014 22:50
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Sober posted:I joke but I might be misremembering and the other guy on the panel is was the new writer they hired that hadn't done any work before. I was totally playing Diablo 3 while listening to that. Andy Callahan, who used to be an assistant for Jonah and Greg, is the other new writer and his first episode will be episode 12.
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Oct 28, 2014 22:56
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I don't care who writes as long as John gets to kneecap/beat up people.
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Oct 29, 2014 01:47
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Whatever this guy is up to, he's incredibly unsubtle about it. E: Eating near computers??
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Oct 29, 2014 03:05
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Yeah. I think this new writer is gonna fit in just fine so far.
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Oct 29, 2014 03:13
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This episode is coming off a little more light hearted than usual, which is fine since it can't always been doom and gloom.
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Oct 29, 2014 03:21
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So this lady is either Samaritan operative or a new third party
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Oct 29, 2014 03:22
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FUSCO'S SUNGLASSES E: Oh dammit Elias Regy Rusty fucked around with this message at 03:32 on Oct 29, 2014 |
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Oct 29, 2014 03:27
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Goddamn straight badass Finch is the best Finch
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Oct 29, 2014 03:58
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I figured Finch was on a mission the whole time. Looks like he and the Machine may have had that conversation offscreen.
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Oct 29, 2014 04:00
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It was pretty obvious since the first time she mentioned it that the Angel Investor would be Decima. I figured that would be used for a twist later on, so it was nice to see that Finch knew all along. And hey, the show actually paid lip service to the non-Reese covers this week, with Finch at a conference and Shaw being "on her day off". So technically, I can't complain about those being ignored.
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Oct 29, 2014 04:36
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