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Hello everyone, I'm 18 years old, just finished the (I believe) Dutch equivalent of high school and I'm eligible to study at a university. I have grown tired of Europe, and would love to visit, study at and possibly live in the US. Since I was a child I always dreamed of going to the US, but never really considered it seriously because I was too afraid to go there all by myself. Right now however I am mature enough, and to be honest do not have much reason to stay in Europe any longer except for the fact that I'll not see my family ( with which my relationship is not too well with) any longer for a long while. I would love to go, my skills are up to American universities, my English is fine and I'm willing to work a lot to pay for my school bills. My parents will still support me, but I'll have to pay the most by myself I presume. The question is however, I am not sure whether or not it's possible for me to study there at all due to laws etc. Which is why I came asking here. Do any Americans, or possibly Europeans who moved out there, or generally anyone at all who knows American laws know if I would be able to get a "permit" to study a bachelor at an university there within a year? At the moment I just started with a gap year, and thus do have some free time now in order to research into this, but still, I fear I might overlook things, which is why I would be really happy if anyone out there would seriously be able to help me.  Every tiny bit counts, so if there is anything you'd like to tell me about this, even if it is not much, I'd appreciate it a ton. Thanks for reading.
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Sep 9, 2014 20:09
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You'll need to jump through a bunch of hoops to get a student visa, but it's absolutely possible! (it also cost a bunch of money right off the bat) What might be a bit harder for you is working. The usual student visas don't really allow for off-campus employment, and even on-campus it's usually restricted to something like twenty hours a week during school season. To start you need to actually pick a college and apply, and when you're accepted they'll send you a form confirming your acceptance and that will get the ball rolling etc etc. this site will help - http://www.educationusa.info/ this one has some helpful info - http://studyusa.com/en/a/33/how-to-get-your-u-s-student-visa this one's about working - http://www.internationalstudent.com/study_usa/way-of-life/working-in-the-usa/ Hope this helps you! America is pretty great imo  edit: don't worry too much about being by yourself. People here love seeing people coming to study from other countries! You'll be totally fine as long as you're not super rude or anything. (i'm from Texas, though, so you might not get the same warm reception from those drat yankees up north  )
fffff fucked around with this message at 17:31 on Sep 10, 2014 |
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Sep 10, 2014 17:28
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The student permit will be easy to obtain once you've received a letter of acceptance (and your own confirmation) to an American university. The much, much bigger issue will be that American schools are ridiculously expensive -- unless you get a scholarship you will need more than $30,000/year, and even that would be extraordinarily cheap, more like $40--$50k/year is to be expected (including living expenses). Assuming you have a wealthy family or are by some chance able to get an academic scholarship (they exist but a student body of 1000 might have like 10 full academic scholarships) then your only issue will be getting accepted to a school you actually want to go to. Depending on how your TOEFL and SAT scores are, the odds of getting in range wildly. In general American schools are MUCH more difficult to get into than European ones, BUT unlike European schools, no one fails out of American universities unless they literally have poo poo for brains. Anyway once you're actually in the US it will be really easy to meet people -- colleges in the US are massively more focused on student life and making friends and life than European universities in general (or at least compared to French/Swiss/German ones, I don't know anything about Dutch schools). The most viable alternative if you are not (a) wealthy or (b) have not won a Nobel prize and therefore are unlikely to get an academic scholarhip, is to (c) enroll in a Dutch university and then study abroad at [select school] in the US. This only gets you one of your three (four?) years over there, but at least it doesn't cost $40k (exchange students always pay only their home university fees, which works out awesomely for Europeans studying in Harvard, since they pay 1/50th what a Harvard student pays to study in Europe for a year). E: You should take the SAT and TOEFL if you haven't already. I think you need both (definitely need TOEFL) for study abroad even as an exchange student anyway. An SAT score above 1400 (out of 1600) means you'll have a pretty good shot of getting in, but if you ace math (800) and get a worse score in English (> 550) you'll get cut some slack since you're not a native speaker. I have no idea what a good target TOEFL score is. Saladman fucked around with this message at 19:30 on Sep 10, 2014 |
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Sep 10, 2014 19:26
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Ah, thank you both so much for the lengthy answers. Learned a lot from it. From what you two and the linked sites told, it seems getting a permit to study is indeed not that hard, it's getting accepted by and paying for the university itself. This makes me sad and happy at the same time, heh. I like that the community is good and friendly to foreigners at American universities, makes me want to go even more. Sadly, my family is quite poor and I'll never be able to pay those amounts by myself either. I read a lot about these SAT tests and they seem extremely important, is it possible for me to get high scores which in order enable me go to universities which will offer the bachelor for free or at a cheaper amount? Alternatively, are there any cheaper universities out there that offer studies to international students? Or, even better, are there more ways outside of being a sports pro or a Nobel prize winner to go to universities at a cheaper rate? These amounts come kind of as a shock to me, the university prices are so high compared to Europe. Especially when work will be restricted to me, these prices will be hard/impossible to cough up. Also saladman, that exchange program sounds pretty good. If all else fails, this should be my ticket to the U.S. I guess. For a year at least. Jack the Stripper fucked around with this message at 22:37 on Sep 10, 2014 |
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Sep 10, 2014 22:21
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Jack the Stripper posted:I'm 18 years old ... I have grown tired of Europe Really? Just do an Erasmus year dude, it's made to do what you want and is cheap and easy. For a more American experience eat at McDonalds, don't drink and pay a 15% tip everywhere. Have you already enrolled this year?
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Sep 10, 2014 22:49
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Some schools are a bit cheaper/offer financial aid, but even then it's going to be drat expensive, and there isn't much of a point to coming all the way here for some community college  What were you hoping to major in? Picking a well-regarded school is just as important as finding an affordable one.
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Sep 11, 2014 08:38
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Jack the Stripper posted:Alternatively, are there any cheaper universities out there that offer studies to international students? Or, even better, are there more ways outside of being a sports pro or a Nobel prize winner to go to universities at a cheaper rate? These amounts come kind of as a shock to me, the university prices are so high compared to Europe. Especially when work will be restricted to me, these prices will be hard/impossible to cough up. Yes but unfortunately also what fffff said; there's no reason to come to the US to go to Nowhereville State University, when Maastricht is 100x better and still even cheaper than Nowhere State. A fair number of schools (e.g. Princeton) will subsidize you--called Financial Aid--if you do get in based on your parents salary, but be aware that they expect your parents to literally pay 100% of what they can and expect them to survive on rice and thin soups for the four years you are there. i.e. a family making €50,000/year would still expect to pay €10,000/year to Princeton (admittedly a "bargain" compared to its sticker price of ~€45k). Europeans always vastly overestimate what they will get from financial aid. Literally schools will expect every single eurocent from your parents they possibly could give without selling their kidneys, and even then they might just give you a 0% interest student loan instead of actually reducing the price. If you take the SAT and get >1500, then a lot of decent second-tier universities will give you half or full scholarships to go there, places like University of Georgia, Texas A&M, maybe even UT Austin, etc, will give you a full or nearly-full ride. Top 20 schools have so many kids apply that got perfect SAT scores that they don't give out such scholarships unless you also cured cancer or whatever. In any case don't place your hopes too high, since while you can very likely get a 800 in Math, you almost certainly won't get an 800 verbal since you're not a native speaker--even with as good as the Dutch learn English. E: Also if you want to major in anything that is not a hard science or math, definitely don't go to the US, as it is a huge waste of money to get a degree in English literature or Psychology, as these are $100,000 pieces of paper that lead to homelessness and working at organic grocery stores where rich people who studied chemical engineering (or married chemical engineers) shop. Saladman fucked around with this message at 09:04 on Sep 11, 2014 |
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Sep 11, 2014 09:02
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Foreign students who come here pay full price, and subsidize to some extent all the American poor kids who get scholarships and grants and full rides. I think it's like that everywhere. Even out of state students pay a higher tuition for a state school than the in state kids here.
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Sep 11, 2014 09:48
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Tautologicus posted:Foreign students who come here pay full price, and subsidize to some extent all the American poor kids who get scholarships and grants and full rides. I think it's like that everywhere. Even out of state students pay a higher tuition for a state school than the in state kids here. It's not necessarily like that. I lived with a Lebanese and a Hong Kongian for a year in college and the Lebanese was on a full ride and the Hong Konger on a half ride (the first one of the handful of academic scholars, the second partial financial aid) but yeah it's not common. If you're from a "high value diversity" country your odds are a lot better. Unfortunately unless you have some Surinamese heritage you can play up, Dutch is going to be hard to swing from the diversity factor. Schools do love having X% European students though so some people definitely do get lucky. I think the other main problem for the OP is it costs like $150 a pop to apply to colleges, and even though you can recycle the same common app, you can easily spend €1000 just on apps alone. I think I applied to 10 colleges and it cost a poo poo ton, and I bet it's even more expensive now a decade on, just like everything else with American schools. Anyway if you can afford the €1k to take the SAT, TOEFL, and apply to a few schools it's definitely worth it, and even if you don't get good aid or a scholarship, the SAT and TOEFL will still be good for Erasmus or Study Abroad. Note that American college apps are (a) due between 1 Dec and ~15 Feb, and (b) they require you to write essays and get letters of recommendation and stuff. They're a lot more in-depth than European college apps, at least in my relatively limited experience of applying to schools on both sides of the Atlantic. I did my bachelor in the US and my PhD in Europe. Saladman fucked around with this message at 10:53 on Sep 11, 2014 |
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Sep 11, 2014 10:49
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Saladman posted:It's not necessarily like that. I lived with a Lebanese and a Hong Kongian for a year in college and the Lebanese was on a full ride and the Hong Konger on a half ride (the first one of the handful of academic scholars, the second partial financial aid) but yeah it's not common. If you're from a "high value diversity" country your odds are a lot better. Unfortunately unless you have some Surinamese heritage you can play up, Dutch is going to be hard to swing from the diversity factor. Schools do love having X% European students though so some people definitely do get lucky.
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Sep 11, 2014 12:03
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Tautologicus posted:Yea I suppose it's not exactly like that. Sure seems like it though, judging by the money I see on these foreign students. And I bet exactly zero private colleges feel very nationalistic when it comes to giving American students precedence over foreign students financially, as they are not required to at the moment. So I guess it might be possible to get financial aid from an American university as a foreign student, it just doesn't seem right. Can Americans go to European universities for free? Yeah, it's dirt cheap for Americans to study in public European universities, except for the UK, which is crazy expensive for everyone. For instance in Switzerland you pay double as a foreigner.. but it's like $2000/year instead of $1000/year. German schools are the same deal, while Norway is free for everyone.
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Sep 11, 2014 12:28
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Saladman posted:Yes but unfortunately also what fffff said; there's no reason to come to the US to go to Nowhereville State University, when Maastricht is 100x better and still even cheaper than Nowhere State. Yeah, I'm beginning to realise that aswell now. Wasn't expecting these money problems, so I won't be bothered to hurt me or my family that much unless I can get into a good one. quote:If you take the SAT and get >1500, then a lot of decent second-tier universities will give you half or full scholarships to go there, places like University of Georgia, Texas A&M, maybe even UT Austin, etc, will give you a full or nearly-full ride. Top 20 schools have so many kids apply that got perfect SAT scores that they don't give out such scholarships unless you also cured cancer or whatever. In any case don't place your hopes too high, since while you can very likely get a 800 in Math, you almost certainly won't get an 800 verbal since you're not a native speaker--even with as good as the Dutch learn English. I'll do this SAT test for sure. If my score sucks, or is average, I'll just let it slide and probably go to the US in my exchange program year. fffff posted:What were you hoping to major in? Picking a well-regarded school is just as important as finding an affordable one. quote:E: Also if you want to major in anything that is not a hard science or math, definitely don't go to the US, as it is a huge waste of money to get a degree in English literature or Psychology, as these are $100,000 pieces of paper that lead to homelessness and working at organic grocery stores where rich people who studied chemical engineering (or married chemical engineers) shop. Haha. Well, I was planning to study economics as it has always been interesting to me and I am pretty good at it. Do you perhaps know if this study is, well, worth the time/trouble there? Pvt Dancer posted:Have you already enrolled this year? This year I'm doing a HBO study (don't know the international name for it), which is basically an easier university. I'm doing this just to keep my knowledge fresh, while I am looking for studies at universities for the coming year, preferabely in the U.S. But since it seems that that is pretty hard, I might have to look in other countries, because I would really like to get out of my home country and study in a foreign one. Thank you all so far for the replies btw, they're extremely helpful. Jack the Stripper fucked around with this message at 19:50 on Sep 11, 2014 |
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Sep 11, 2014 19:48
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Jack the Stripper posted:Haha. Well, I was planning to study economics as it has always been interesting to me and I am pretty good at it. Do you perhaps know if this study is, well, worth the time/trouble there? Yeah, economics is worth it unless you're unlucky and graduate during a recession -- I feel sorry for those poor jobless bastards who graduated in 2008 with a degree in finance! There's actually a ton of data and research on this kind of thing, particularly in the past 20 years as the cost of college has more than tripled. For example there's http://www.payscale.com/college-salary-report-2013/majors-that-pay-you-back which looks pretty much in line with other similar reports I've seen before. (Median US income is something like $52k/year, so any major with a mid-career salary < ~$70k/year is a money sink unless the degree is free.) If you do study economics, are you thinking about getting an MBA? MBA programs are also expensive (everywhere, AFAIK, including in Europe -- like €50k/year at Lausanne, London, Paris, or Madrid's business schools) but they're usually only ~1 year and you'll also make bank immediately after graduating, so it's not so bad.
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Sep 11, 2014 22:23
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Saladman posted:Yeah, it's dirt cheap for Americans to study in public European universities, except for the UK, which is crazy expensive for everyone. For instance in Switzerland you pay double as a foreigner.. but it's like $2000/year instead of $1000/year. German schools are the same deal, while Norway is free for everyone.
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Sep 12, 2014 03:05
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Cicero posted:Huh, is this true for grad school as well? Hell yeah, man, go to Sweden and its even free. Jack the Stripper posted:I'll do this SAT test for sure. If my score sucks, or is average, I'll just let it slide and probably go to the US in my exchange program year. This here sounds like a great idea. I don't know much about exchange programs though. How much flexibility do you get when choosing schools to exchange to? Duke (North Carolina), Texas A&M, UT at Austin, the University of Virginia, and Vanderbilt University (Tennessee) are all schools that have good economics programs, from what I've heard. Of course, you have a huge amount of options!
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Sep 12, 2014 04:19
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Cicero posted:Huh, is this true for grad school as well? It's the same for Master's as for Bachelor's programs. Doctoral programs (as in the US) are free and paid for so it doesn't matter what nationality you are. Other programs, particularly law and medicine, are very different from the US -- you immediately start law and medicine at 18, instead of in the US where you get a bachelor in [whatever] and then start Law School or Med School separately years later. I guess these aren't usually considered "grad schools" though.
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Sep 12, 2014 10:22
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Cicero posted:Huh, is this true for grad school as well? If you're doing a PhD in Europe, that counts as a job in many of the countries. You don't pay tuition and instead get paid a living wage, with social security and all. Fancy.
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Sep 12, 2014 22:04
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Entropist posted:If you're doing a PhD in Europe, that counts as a job in many of the countries. You don't pay tuition and instead get paid a living wage, with social security and all. Fancy. Like most programs in US.
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Sep 12, 2014 22:55
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Saladman posted:I did my bachelor in the US and my PhD in Europe. What made you decide to do your PhD in Europe? From my understanding of humanities PhDs its quite hard to get full funding in Europe, but nearly all of them are full ride in the U.S. (pending your GRE and GPA scores being high enough). Is that wrong? Or were you in a hard science?
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Sep 14, 2014 10:07
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Blut posted:What made you decide to do your PhD in Europe? From my understanding of humanities PhDs its quite hard to get full funding in Europe, but nearly all of them are full ride in the U.S. (pending your GRE and GPA scores being high enough). Is that wrong? Or were you in a hard science? Mostly because it's much shorter (4 years) and it's treated like a real job and not like you're some schmuck student, so you're counted as an official employee, receive official holidays (25 days/year of my choice, plus the 10 national holidays!). Also it's very well paid in comparison -- I made double what someone living in Boston or NYC in a PhD program would -- but this only applies to the 2 Swiss National Institutes, Norway, and some of the German national institutes. Most other countries are equivalent to US pay (most of Germany, France, UK) or worse (Italian schools don't come close to paying you enough to live on), but the first points -- real employee and shorter graduation time -- are pretty universal. I did hard science (biology) but the liberal arts programs are the same, which makes the 4 years in Europe vs. the 8 years in the US for a (e.g.) literature PhD even more jarring. The UK is often even just a 3 year PhD program. I don't know about other countries but all PhD programs in Switzerland are fully funded (or you get kicked out after one year), and there's no salary difference between humanities and science. This is a change that happened only in like 2008 though; before that, e.g. computer science PhDs would pull in $80k/year while French Lit PhDs would pull in $20k/year.
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Sep 14, 2014 16:40
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Saladman posted:Mostly because it's much shorter (4 years) and it's treated like a real job and not like you're some schmuck student, so you're counted as an official employee, receive official holidays (25 days/year of my choice, plus the 10 national holidays!). Interesting. I know in the UK & Ireland the PhDs are shorter (3 year usually, sometimes 4 years) but its extremely had to get funding. For humanities in Ireland the funding rate in the humanities is currently running at around 12.5% of PhDs having funding - and that of approx €20,000 a year. I was under the impression that PhD stipends in the U.S. were around the same (approx $20k USD) but that with cheaper living costs they were a bit more livable. Plus if you got accepted to a program you were guaranteed funding - unlike the 1 in 8 chance in Ireland. I've had numerous acquaintances go from the EU to the US for humanities PhDs for this reason - interesting to hear an opposite experience!
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Sep 14, 2014 17:14
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In my area, right outside of Boston, Quincy College makes a big deal about sponsoring students for visas and having them come here. Pretty easy to get accepted, as far as I've heard. You ought to check them out if you want to be close to a major city (NYC/Boston/New Haven/Providence). Link is here -- https://www.quincycollege.edu
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Sep 14, 2014 20:38
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Blut posted:Interesting. I know in the UK & Ireland the PhDs are shorter (3 year usually, sometimes 4 years) but its extremely had to get funding. For humanities in Ireland the funding rate in the humanities is currently running at around 12.5% of PhDs having funding - and that of approx €20,000 a year. I was under the impression that PhD stipends in the U.S. were around the same (approx $20k USD) but that with cheaper living costs they were a bit more livable. Plus if you got accepted to a program you were guaranteed funding - unlike the 1 in 8 chance in Ireland. I've had numerous acquaintances go from the EU to the US for humanities PhDs for this reason - interesting to hear an opposite experience! Ph.D. stipends vary quite a bit around the US; $20k is pretty terrible for a hard science PhD, especially in the Boston area, but maybe that's more normal for humanities. I'm at a technical university so there are no humanities majors, but our sister university--coincidentally, where all the girls are--funds all its humanities PhDs, they just "only" make 80% what the math/science PhDs make (which is still a good $40k/yr after taxes). I'm almost positive it's not legal to have unfunded PhD students here at state or national universities, since they are almost considered normal employees, the only difference being that overtime hours are legally not counted / paid, not that I've ever heard of a secretary or technician actually getting paid for overtime. I don't even know if Switzerland has private universities that give PhDs, but if they exist, then probably they do not have to follow this guideline.
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Sep 14, 2014 21:33
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I went to a Junior College/City College that had a huge international student population (Foothill College, CA, see also De Anza College.) It's cheap, and anyone can take classes. The mostly Asian international students would either just faff about "improving their English" for a few semesters... and the more ambitious/capable would take regular college classes for 2 years, then transfer to a State University for 2 more years to get a real college degree.
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Sep 16, 2014 11:56
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peanut posted:I went to a Junior College/City College that had a huge international student population (Foothill College, CA, see also De Anza College.) It's cheap, and anyone can take classes. The major universities in the Netherlands provide more opportunities than any junior college, and they're also way cheaper. Going to a JC is pretty much the worst of both worlds for the OP since it both costs money and also fails to give him the student life / atmosphere that he would get at a "real" university. Not to be elitist and diss junior colleges, they have their utility, but they're for people who are busy working jobs or busy with their family, or for people who didn't do well enough to get scholarships (or even get accepted) to a state university and are trying to get their degree the cheapest way possible. Some city colleges could be OK for the OP, but they're not really any cheaper than state schools, so I wouldn't recommend them. OP, you could also apply to Cooper Union ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cooper_Union ) which is pretty much the only top-tier university in the United States that still gives everyone a free ride. Edit: Well apparently Cooper Union discontinued its 150 year tradition starting this semester, so now you have to pay a gently caress ton there too; it jumped from $0/year to $20,000/year from 2013-2014. All hope is lost. gently caress college prices in the United States. Saladman fucked around with this message at 13:20 on Sep 16, 2014 |
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Sep 16, 2014 13:15
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Junior Colleges are absolutely cheaper than state schools. They also give support for getting into 4-year universities.
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Sep 16, 2014 14:27
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peanut posted:Junior Colleges are absolutely cheaper than state schools. They also give support for getting into 4-year universities. They're absolutely not cheaper than national universities in Europe which is what the OP has to compare them against. Edit: I get why an American or someone from a country with bad universities would go to a JC, but in Europe universities are in general pretty good, very cheap, and not very competitive to get into; in fact most of them have fixed checklists where if you meet the minimum requirements you're accepted, unlike most US universities where it's a total crapshoot and even if you have perfect everything you're not guaranteed a slot at any of the best universities. Saladman fucked around with this message at 16:13 on Sep 16, 2014 |
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Sep 16, 2014 14:33
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Bip Roberts posted:Like most programs in US. Blut posted:Interesting. I know in the UK & Ireland the PhDs are shorter (3 year usually, sometimes 4 years) but its extremely had to get funding. For humanities in Ireland the funding rate in the humanities is currently running at around 12.5% of PhDs having funding - and that of approx €20,000 a year. I was under the impression that PhD stipends in the U.S. were around the same (approx $20k USD) but that with cheaper living costs they were a bit more livable. Plus if you got accepted to a program you were guaranteed funding - unlike the 1 in 8 chance in Ireland. I've had numerous acquaintances go from the EU to the US for humanities PhDs for this reason - interesting to hear an opposite experience! Maybe the situation is different there. The UK is weird anyway, a lot of the funding is only available to UK nationals. In the Netherlands if you're in a PhD programme you have funding. You can decide to do a PhD on your own (all you really have to do to meet the requirements is submit a finished thesis somewhere and have it approved), possibly while affiliated with some university, but not many people do this, since it sucks. I've met more students for whom it is the other way around - they get paid to do research or teach, but since it's only for 1 year they're not officialy PhD students. They'll generally be looking to extend it and get into the actual PhD programme. The situation is the same for the humanities and the sciences, for the humanities it's just more competitive to get a position as there'll be more applications.
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Sep 16, 2014 21:31
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You need to enroll and be accepted. Then it's easy - universities have a Designated School Official (DSO) who serves as liaison with Homeland Security to maintain your F-1 visa. I'm an immigration lawyer, and deal with people changing status from F-1 all the time. F-1 is probably the easiest visa status to obtain for living in the US. Bear in mind that university study is freakishly expensive by Dutch standards. You're looking at $20,000-$40,000 per year in tuition, and then you need to demonstrate that you have adequate funds for living expenses too.
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Sep 18, 2014 12:25
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