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Martman posted:When they do all their super-fast training and stuff, the characters are still actually learning those skills, right? Like, Neo actually knows kung-fu, he doesn't just know the cheat codes that only work in the Matrix right? I think it would be cool if their actions in the real world ended up being something like a heist movie where they had to pull off some absolutely ridiculous bullshit by going to the limits of what humans could ever be capable of. As far as I remember and care to think about the logistics of this, no. If that were the case Neo would have absolutely owned Bane-Smith or at least their confrontation would have looked wildly different, and just about anybody could be a pilot to the human ships because all it takes is five minutes of simulated training. That opens the door for potential hilarity though, like when a guy who's a super-mechanic within the Matrix impotently fumbles with stuff in the real world while tearfully admitting that he never really knew anything. But sadly that kind of thing wasn't explored anywhere in the movies.
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Sep 28, 2014 03:26
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Grendels Dad posted:
There the kid in the first film talked mad poo poo in the real world and loaded up with huge guns in the matrix and got owned off screen in like one second flat.
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Sep 28, 2014 05:07
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Grendels Dad posted:As far as I remember and care to think about the logistics of this, no. If that were the case Neo would have absolutely owned Bane-Smith or at least their confrontation would have looked wildly different, and just about anybody could be a pilot to the human ships because all it takes is five minutes of simulated training. Neo is quite skilled in hand to hand combat, ultimately defeating Bane despite the fact that was better armed and had a hostage. My guess would be the matrix's machine nature allows you to pull off the kata and their moves with incredible proficiency and accuracy, while the real world is a lot messier. I'm sure that being able to psychically increase the impact of individual blows to the point of absurdity would also be an advantage that was sorely missed as well.
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Sep 28, 2014 17:34
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You know what was one thing that I don't remember them ever explaining? Why could the Oracle see into the future at all? The Matrix had a lot of spiritual and mystical elements, but most of them had at least some sort of sci-fi explanation (e.g. "Neo's power extends all the way to the Source," which I guess means he's connected to the machine mainframe by wifi or whatever). Even in the first movie, though, the Oracle's power goes unquestioned. It actually works surprisingly well, all things considered, since the audience essentially has to suspend their disbelief not only for "our world is a simulation created by machine overlords" but also "palm readers are real."
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Sep 28, 2014 19:45
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Sep 28, 2014 19:49
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I can think of two answers to that, which are possibly exclusive but equally valid. One is that the neatly defined boundary being magic and science fiction doesn't actually exist. There's no difference between asking why the Oracle can see the future and why, for example, agents can take over human minds. (Which I don't think is ever explained either beyond "they can do that.") The other is "what makes you think a program who helped design the Matrix doesn't understand its simulated physics well enough to predict it, and understand human psychology enough to push them in the direction she wants them to go, without ever even needing to see the future?"
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Sep 28, 2014 19:51
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Because The Oracle isn't a rogue program at all; she designs and helps along the path of each One toward the metagame the machines are playing that accounts for rebellion. So she has knowledge of what the machines will do and will make happen, in both the Matrix and the real world, because she's in on the plan. I dunno maybe there's something that totally contradicts that in the movies but I think that would pretty well explain her role in the movies.
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Sep 28, 2014 21:11
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I guess; the Oracle also makes predictions about the real world (e.g. Trinity will fall in love with the One) but she doesn't actually make a lot of these; still, Trinity seems pretty surprised when it seems like the Oracle's wrong, so if nothing else, the rebels seem fairly convinced that her powers extend to the real world. She's also not really presented as a Sherlock-style genius who's figuring out the future; even if that's what's happening behind the scenes, the movie presents her as an old fashioned fortune teller and never really deviates from that imagery, so again it's surprising that it feels so natural in what is otherwise a fairy sci-fi movie.
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Sep 28, 2014 22:30
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Aglet56 posted:I guess; the Oracle also makes predictions about the real world (e.g. Trinity will fall in love with the One) but she doesn't actually make a lot of these; still, Trinity seems pretty surprised when it seems like the Oracle's wrong, so if nothing else, the rebels seem fairly convinced that her powers extend to the real world. She's also not really presented as a Sherlock-style genius who's figuring out the future; even if that's what's happening behind the scenes, the movie presents her as an old fashioned fortune teller and never really deviates from that imagery, so again it's surprising that it feels so natural in what is otherwise a fairy sci-fi movie. It makes sense that they thought her powers extended into the real world. The first time any resistance member (apparently) guesses that she might not be human is in the second film. Beyond that, I guess that she's just a really fancy algorithm for prediction of events. It's established early on that the machines don't really understand human choice, at least not fully, hence why her predictions can only lead her to the next major 'decision point' for a human.
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Sep 29, 2014 00:20
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Aglet56 posted:..the movie presents her as an old fashioned fortune teller and never really deviates from that imagery, so again it's surprising that it feels so natural in what is otherwise a fairy sci-fi movie. That's a brilliant typo in context.
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Sep 29, 2014 01:03
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The only impression that the matrix has left on me 15 years down the line is the word juris-my-diction which is implanted in my brain for the rest of my life for some reason.
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Sep 29, 2014 01:54
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Blue Raider posted:The only impression that the matrix has left on me 15 years down the line is the word juris-my-diction which is implanted in my brain for the rest of my life for some reason. You can cram it up your rear end.
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Sep 29, 2014 02:02
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On one level it's a shame the Matrix franchise died. I really wanted a Councilman Cornell West spinoff.
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Sep 29, 2014 06:22
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I'm pretty sure that if Neo still "knows" martial arts in the real world, so would Bane-Smith. The whole virtual learning thing is pretty complicated when it comes to physical skills though, since your muscles also adapt and grow as part of those. So if he used the program to become a master cellist, his fingers might not be able to keep up with what his brain wants them to do in the real world. He might even hurt himself that way. The Oracle is a more intuitive version of the Architect. They're supercomputer hard-AIs capable of designing entire worlds, including controlling the behavioural outcomes of their inhabitants to an almost perfect degree. The Oracle is better at it, of the two AI gods, because she can make intuitive leaps. If she couldn't predict the future to a high degree of accuracy, she wouldn't be able to do her job. So basically, she's capable of processing the state of present to the point where she understands every present cause and therefore its future effects. Probably moreso in the Matrix, where all the physical variables are being simulated by the same computer that she is running on.
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Sep 29, 2014 06:58
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So in other words she's a very advanced chess computer.
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Sep 29, 2014 07:11
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Kung Fu doesn't work in real life.
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Sep 29, 2014 09:49
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sassassin posted:Kung Fu doesn't work in real life. Bruce Lee might want to have a word with you. Although watching him fight someone for real is vastly different than what you see in the movies. As a matter of fact, that's probably as apt an analogy as any.
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Sep 29, 2014 13:27
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Full Battle Rattle posted:Bruce Lee might want to have a word with you. Although watching him fight someone for real is vastly different than what you see in the movies. As a matter of fact, that's probably as apt an analogy as any. Well even Bruce Lee had to kind of invent his own fighting style in order to actually kick people's rear end. Regular kung-fu wasn't fast or brutal enough. Edit: Also, just because now I'm thinking of it, everyone should watch Ip Man if they haven't already. Basebf555 fucked around with this message at 16:32 on Sep 29, 2014 |
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Sep 29, 2014 16:28
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The Matrix was good because it was a solid sci-fi movie with competent acting and some seriously cool special effects. Reloaded and Revolutions sucked because by 2003 those CGI effects weren't that cool any more. Without the wow factor to hide the average acting, poor writing, and nonsensical plot the sequels are just a bunch of dumb talking between DBZ-esque fight scenes. It feels like the sequels fell prey to the George Lucas Effect and there was nobody around to tell the Wachowskis when poo poo just didn't work.
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Sep 29, 2014 18:07
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Full Battle Rattle posted:Bruce Lee might want to have a word with you. Although watching him fight someone for real is vastly different than what you see in the movies. As a matter of fact, that's probably as apt an analogy as any. Bruce Lee was a 130lb twink and I would have wrecked him irl.
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Sep 30, 2014 13:22
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sassassin posted:Bruce Lee was a 130lb twink and I would have wrecked him irl. He wouldn't be able to deal with modern day mixed martial arts because of all the grappling, but as far as stand-up fighting goes I think he'd probably be world-class even today. He had the combination of speed and power that comes along only once or twice a generation.
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Sep 30, 2014 14:47
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But could he beat Jet Li?
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Sep 30, 2014 14:48
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Basebf555 posted:He wouldn't be able to deal with modern day mixed martial arts because of all the grappling, but as far as stand-up fighting goes I think he'd probably be world-class even today. He had the combination of speed and power that comes along only once or twice a generation. If he put on 50lbs that might mean something.
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Sep 30, 2014 14:54
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If you think you can beat Bruce Lee, he has already won.
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Sep 30, 2014 15:12
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Basebf555 posted:He wouldn't be able to deal with modern day mixed martial arts because of all the grappling, but as far as stand-up fighting goes I think he'd probably be world-class even today. He had the combination of speed and power that comes along only once or twice a generation. Lee has absolutely zero competition record. You are basing this off of choreographed fight scenes in films. I love Lee's films and he seemed like a cool dude, but the idea that he was this great fighter IRL is unproven at best.
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Sep 30, 2014 15:32
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Sprecherscrow posted:Lee has absolutely zero competition record. You are basing this off of choreographed fight scenes in films. I love Lee's films and he seemed like a cool dude, but the idea that he was this great fighter IRL is unproven at best. Dragon: The Bruce Lee Story was clearly based on Lee's life and had him beat up plenty of people, partly on the sets where he pretended to beat them up just moments before 
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Sep 30, 2014 15:36
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Grendels Dad posted:Dragon: The Bruce Lee Story was clearly based on Lee's life and had him beat up plenty of people, partly on the sets where he pretended to beat them up just moments before That movie is complete horseshit pushed by his widow to preserve his myth. Joe Lewis provides pretty much the only honest assessment of Lee's fighting ability: http://www.bruceleedivinewind.com/joelewis.html
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Sep 30, 2014 15:39
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Dragon's a good movie for that Breakfast at Tiffany's scene alone.
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Sep 30, 2014 15:47
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Sprecherscrow posted:Lee has absolutely zero competition record. You are basing this off of choreographed fight scenes in films. I love Lee's films and he seemed like a cool dude, but the idea that he was this great fighter IRL is unproven at best. You're right that I'm not basing it on established fact, Lee as you say doesn't have a competition record. I'm basing it on the many rumors and legends about the guy that say he could really fight and was extremely powerful for a guy his size. Some believe that stuff, some don't, I get that.
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Sep 30, 2014 16:17
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sassassin posted:Bruce Lee was a 130lb twink and I would have wrecked him irl. What is this poo poo
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Sep 30, 2014 17:16
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Ninjasaurus posted:What is this poo poo A joke on a comedy forum
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Sep 30, 2014 17:31
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henkman posted:A joke on a comedy forum GOOOOOOONS!!! 
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Sep 30, 2014 17:37
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But... but... he beat Chuck Norris!
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Sep 30, 2014 19:53
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Defending the honor of Bruce Lee is every man's God given responsibility.
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Sep 30, 2014 19:57
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It is my opinion that Neo would lose to SSJ Goku, but that Uber-Smith could defeat both a fully powered Vegeta and Freiza combined.
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Sep 30, 2014 19:59
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Yeah but how do you get Goku, Vegeta, AND Frieza to jack into the Matrix? Are they aware of the lack of limitations?
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Sep 30, 2014 20:00
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Basebf555 posted:Defending the honor of Bruce Lee is every man's God given responsibility. If we use the "wrecked = hosed" definition of the word, then maybe calling him a twink in that sentence would have made more sense. 
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Sep 30, 2014 20:08
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exquisite tea posted:It is my opinion that Neo would lose to SSJ Goku, but that Uber-Smith could defeat both a fully powered Vegeta and Freiza combined. Vegeta and Frieza can't fuze.
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Oct 1, 2014 05:50
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Hbomberguy posted:Vegeta and Frieza can't fuze. Not can't, won't.
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Oct 1, 2014 05:56
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SolidSnakesBandana posted:Yeah but how do you get Goku, Vegeta, AND Frieza to jack in the Matrix? Easily. It's just another form of the Internet, after all.
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Oct 1, 2014 09:06
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