Doctor Who series 8 (34): Eyebrows! Eyebrows since the dawn of Time!

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > TV IV > Doctor Who series 8 (34): Eyebrows! Eyebrows since the dawn of Time!

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Astroman: Apr 8, 2001

I thought it was a great episode. I liked the subversion via "monster at the end of the book." And it coming circle with the War Doctor. I think Moffat has been thinking about this for awhile. I always wondered why the Doctor went to some abandoned building in the middle of nowhere on Gallifrey to set off The Moment. Well now we know.

Oh and yeah, there's no reason the house they were talking about Young Doctor coming into couldn't have been a House. :getin:

# ¿ Sep 14, 2014 03:41

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# ¿ Apr 25, 2024 16:27

Astroman: Apr 8, 2001

Eiba posted:

So... is there anyone else who loves Capaldi in general, but is really tired of his constant putdowns of Clara?

I guess what bothers me is that they're not just generic insults... if he was just being oblivious and abrasive that'd be one thing. But when you have the exchange, "It's too late, you took your makeup off" "I'm still wearing makeup" "... Oh. Maybe you missed a spot" (or whatever he said, this is from memory), that's not just obliviousness, that's a bunch of expectations he's making her feel bad for not living up to.

I guess it's supposed to be absurd 'cause she's obviously attractive or something, but... for some reason that's not making it any better for me. Telling anyone that kind of stuff seems really lovely to me, and beneath the doctor. Even if the doctor's being a jerk. That's just... not a fun way to be a jerk.

I don't know, it might just be me. I thought the "you'll die in six months" joke from last episode was hilarious, even though, in retrospect, it was theoretically a lot more serious. I don't mind the doctor being abrasive, but constantly saying things to make Clara insecure is... not fun at all.

"You're a beautiful woman. Probably."

Capaldi is nailing the alienness of The Doctor and if you want to see a bunch of misogyny up in this piece, it speaks more to you then the characterization.

Also I finished Engines of War and it was pretty loving awesome. I know a few people said it was more childish then some of the average books but I didn't get that vibe at all. I also know a few people are adamant against the Time War being depicted, but if it had to be depicted, this is pretty much exactly how I'd want it to be. You want Rassilon? You get Rassilon! :dance:

Tons of Time Lord politics and poo poo here, and it was great for fans of Deadly Assassin, Arc of Infinity, and The Five Doctors. I had no idea they'd Go There based on the back jacket description but boy did they!

I know nobody from the BBC actually reads our silly little Doctor Who thread here, especially with the Big Finish forums and Gallifrey Base existing as more official conduits for fan/creator interaction. But I gotta say right now, I would Pledge to buy any and all War Doctor stories, in novel, audio, or poo poo, even comic form. I don't usually read comics, but I will find a goddamn local comic store and buy War Doctor comics if you make them. The author really nailed him as a great Doctor here, wholly bringing him into the canon as an Official Doctor. I could really buy the idea that if the Time War ended then and there, he could go adventuring off with a Companion or two and we'd love him. He is The Doctor. Well loving done!

Also they went to the "End of the Universe" and it jibed pretty well with the last planet as shown in the latest episode.

Astroman fucked around with this message at 22:37 on Sep 14, 2014

# ¿ Sep 14, 2014 22:35

Astroman: Apr 8, 2001

pgroce posted:

No, the misogyny's there. This isn't the Doctor not knowing what's attractive, it's the Doctor regularly asserting that he does know what's attractive, and Clara isn't. The jokes are put-downs, and I find them irritating and unnecessary, too. If they were "I'm sure she's quite attractive, I wouldn't know," they wouldn't bother me.

I suspect this has to do with Moffat writing through a very dudebro lens. Vastra and Jenny have the same problem; they're really darned lesbian-by-way-of-straight-guy. (Note, I'm not saying Moffat is a terrible misogynist, just that those jokes pretty clearly are, and I understand why they make people uncomfortable. They make me uncomfortable.)

That's your opinion. It's not objective. I'm just now seeing it. I guess this means you can call me a misogynist now, if it makes you feel better, and add me to the pantheon of Objectively Wrong Doctor Who People, like Stephen Moffat and Rhyno.

In my opinion, Capaldi is playing it as "I'm an alien and I don't see Clara is attractive when she really is and that's the joke."

# ¿ Sep 14, 2014 23:50

Astroman: Apr 8, 2001

LividLiquid posted:

Yes, and I had no problem with that one. It wasn't directed at Clara specifically, wasn't gendered, and didn't attack her looks as if they were important.

Oh, so you'd have no issue if he said the things he said to Clara to a white cismale, eh? :rolleyes:

moths posted:

The Doctor really needs to stop negging her, though. It's that 11 crush living on (Oh you don't see me an that hurts so badly ) getting manifested as this creepy PUA trash.

Everyone who keeps saying the Doctor is "negging" her--you realize you're basically saying that the Doctor has a secret crush on her and you're no better then the sqeeing fans who bemoan the lack of a young, cute Doctor in love with his companion, right? There is nothing Moffat or Capaldi have said which even remotely indicates that the Doctor is secretly trying to woo Clara because he's still in love with her, or that such will become a plot point later on. In fact, they have said it's exactly the opposite.

PoshAlligator posted:

I just finished it myself! Well, a few days ago, but it takes me a while to get my thoughts together sometimes. I agree with a lot of what you've said, though expanded War Doctor stuff is obviously really hard.

Here is my "review" though!:

Engines of War
by George Mann

The problems for me come when looking deeper at this “marriage” of elements. For the most part this is all Engines of War is. There is hardly any in between. The Doctor, despite his claims to the contrary throughout the early part of the book, still acts and feels like the Doctor. He is even referred to as the Doctor by numerous people. The ruse quickly falls apart for the reader, and it quickly becomes apparent the Doctor is only fooling himself. But heck, maybe he was. He’s definitely more hard-line than other Doctors, but it’s hard to imagine them not being so when put in similar situations. There’s only one exception towards the end, and it’s pretty good, but I would have liked to have seen more of that sort of thing – to be made to feel uncomfortable about this man who doesn’t deserve the Doctor, doing things the Doctor would never conceivably do. But it doesn’t really happen.

But does it really?

There are also a noticeable amount of typos in this book. There also some bits of heavy exposition that are a bit grating. It really feels like the BBC didn’t really care too much about this book. It could have been edited a bit more, and the focus of the book is just a bit lacking. Mann seems like a good writer, and a lot of this novel feels really nice. But at times I can’t help but feel Mann is doing in his best without being given much, if any, direction as to how things should play out, what the War Doctor was like, what Time War conflicts were like, and is doing the best he can with that. And with that, he does a great job.

Engines of War is a fine book. It’s a great read, in fact. If you want more of the War Doctor, then, well, here he is. He’s grumpy with a sparkle in his eye, flying about in his badass TARDIS that has a ceiling that shows space around him. Mann captures the essence of Hurt really, really well in fact, and it’s one of the high points of this novel for me. But that’s all it really is. It’s just more of the War Doctor. It’s easy to guess what the conclusion will be early on, and when it does come it’s very solid and satisfying. But it doesn’t really add much to anything. Don’t get me wrong, it adds a bit, and it’s nice that it does. But overall, it’s just more of the War Doctor. But you know what? That’s not a bad thing at all.

I do disagree with you there. I think it precisely because the War Doctor is very much still The Doctor that he shines. It really is the Doctor fooling himself and I'm glad we didn't see a harder edged Doctor. It just worked better for me personally that way. I also think the descriptions of the Time War across the ages, the Battle TARDISes, the Skaro Degradations, and [spoiler]Rassilon[/i] himself were exactly what I imagined the Time War to be. In that sense it fills in a nice gap.

# ¿ Sep 15, 2014 04:31

Astroman: Apr 8, 2001

PoshAlligator posted:

I don't disagree with you there, it is nice to get the sense of a good Doctor in a bad situation, but the way the War Doctor is talked about in the show made it seem as if there was more than just the Moment to be ashamed of. Things like still refusing to outfit the TARDIS with weaponry despite being in a massive war are a little too on the noise Doctor-y. It's not that I don't like that, but it seems a bit safe.

I try to avoid too many specifics in my reviews themselves, but I did especially like the descriptions of TARDISes destroyed in battle, "blooming" (is this original to the novel?), and the Doctor using the TARDIS to ram people.

Well like I said, it worked for me, but of course different people might want to see something different from the War Doctor. Though we could also see some harder edged moments from him in future stories. This may just have been a "good day" for him.

The blooming is straight out of one of the early NA novels, where the TARDIS turns inside out and becomes a city. One of my favorites, personally.

Another favorite nugget of mine from Engines of War was ("oh no not the)Mind Probe.(")

DoctorWhat posted:

According to Zagreus and The Next Life, Rassilon was a big, frothing racist who tampered with genetic histories across time and space in order to enforce a hominid hegemony.

It was also in the novels that he basically took a more fantastical, almost magical early universe and made it more logical and technological. His war with the Vampires was one of those things.

LividLiquid posted:

That isn't what I did. At all. I pointed out that people kept raging on the topic being broached, and that the conversation would be long over if people could just let "that was a bit sexist" lie there instead of arguing about it, then blaming the people they're arguing with for starting the argument that they, themselves, started.

My original point was "well I just don't see it, sorry." What you're saying here (bolded) is "this argument would be over a lot earlier if people would just agree that I am objectively right."

# ¿ Sep 16, 2014 01:08

Astroman: Apr 8, 2001

One Swell Foop posted:

One of the factors in the Gallifreyan/Time Lord question is the Rassilon Imprimatur, a change that he applied to Gallifreyan genetics to allow them to survive time travel and link with a Tardis, which (according to one of the wikis) is briefly discussed in The Two Doctors. So presumably the Gallifreyan-->Time Lord relationship is something to do with the application of the Imprimatur, which in turn is probably related to graduating from the Academy.

There's also the fabled Trouser Press of Rassilon, that's canon too

Yeah, the idea that there are ordinary Gallifreyans, some of whom are educated to become Time Lords, has been toyed with over the years and everything we've seen in the past few years on the show (things like the Master and Doctor's youth, and the Gallifreyan civilians on the run from the Daleks) has only enforced that. It was largely limited to the novels and audios but it's pretty explicit on screen now.

# ¿ Sep 16, 2014 01:36

Astroman: Apr 8, 2001

PoshAlligator posted:

I still haven't read any NAs, though I now have a stack of a handful I picked up on the cheap and I'd like to try them out. Do you know the name of the blooming one? Though I'll probably dip into one of the just released 12th NSAs first.

Cat's Cradle: Time's Crucible. It's written by Marc Platt, who did Ghost Light as well as some notable BF audios like Spare Parts and The Silver Turk.

The story is basically the TARDIS explodes inside out and turns to a city, the Doctor has vanished and Ace meets some people who turn out to be the first time travellers from Gallifrey, pre-Time Lords, when Rassilon was first coming to power. There's a lot of flashbacks and a side plot which occurs on ancient Gallifrey with Rassilon. Much of what is written has been de-canonized, but it remains a fascinating apocryphal look at an alternative Ancient Gallifreyan society before the Time Lords, when they had a Space Empire and still remembered their pre-spaceflight world. It's also very well written, IMO.

# ¿ Sep 16, 2014 02:56

Astroman: Apr 8, 2001

Jsor posted:

Generally Capaldi is 12 and Hurt is "War". (And the Metacrisis which technically counted as a regeneration is generally 10-2 or "Rose's Realdoll")

One note though: Metacrises was NOT the extra regeneration. The 10-2 Doctor is the Doctor who looks like 10 who regenerated after he was shot by the Dalek. He put some of his regeneration energy (the part which gives him a new face/body) into his hand, which when touched by Donna grew into a human Doctor, like a worm tail regrowing a body and head.

So the technical order of bodies is:

8-McGann
9-Hurt
10-Eccleston
11-Tennant
12-Another Tennant
\____________________________Metacrisis Human Doctor
13-Smith
14-Capaldi

Had there been a cut off Doctor body part or other receptacle laying around, presumably Smith could have pulled the same trick and kept the same face after healing his injuries and becoming young, when he had his final moment with Clara in the TARDIS (and hallucinated Amy). But without that, he had to finish and turn to Capaldi.

# ¿ Sep 16, 2014 05:02

Astroman: Apr 8, 2001

thexerox123 posted:

Maybe I'm kind of confused about what you're saying here, but... I just watched these episodes the other day, metacrisis human Doctor and 10-2 are the same person.

There are 3 Doctors with Tennant's face.

One was a Gallifreyan regenerated from the Eccleston form.

One was a Gallifreyan regenerated from the Tennant form.

The third was a human formed with Tennant's face and memories, out of Tennant's hand, residual regeneration energy, and Donna's DNA.

There was a whole new regeneration after the Dalek shot, from Journey's End through the Specials it's an entirely new Doctor, he just kept the same form.

It'd be like if the Time Lords forced 2 to regenerate at the end of the War Games (and Season 6b :iamafag: ) and exiled him to earth but he was able to keep the same face so that the Third Doctor was still played by Patrick Troughton.

# ¿ Sep 16, 2014 05:25

Astroman: Apr 8, 2001

thexerox123 posted:

What are you basing this on? I think there are just 2. He specifically chose to vent the regeneration energy into his severed hand to avoid regenerating himself.

The Doctor: No, not forever. I can change twelve times. Thirteen versions of me. Thirteen silly Doctors.
Clara: Okay, so you're number Eleven. So ...
The Doctor: Ha. Are we forgetting Captain Grumpy? Eh? I didn't call myself the Doctor during the Time War but it was still a regeneration.
Clara: Okay, so you're number Twelve.
The Doctor: Well Number Ten once regenerated and kept the same face. I had vanity issues at the time.

Two 10s. :colbert:

# ¿ Sep 16, 2014 05:53

Astroman: Apr 8, 2001

PriorMarcus posted:

Really he should've introduced her in Eleventh Hour if he had the hindsight to do so.

Oh, I'd say he introduced her at the eleventh hour all right... :v:

DoctorWhat posted:

In Sandifer's case, what happened is that "The Big Bang" had such a huge impact on Phil that it inspired him to do this huge, sprawling analysis of all of Who. Trouble is, he went into the writing process with the premise that current-day Who must be the teleological triumph of television; as a result, he's been increasingly dishonest and defensive ever since he stepped into the Wilderness Years.

To Phil, Moffat!Who MUST be the best era of Who, or his whole years-long argument could fall apart. If that premise goes undefended, he's "wasted" the past three-plus years. So Moffat!Who MUST be Feminist, and not-racist, and progressive and good. And any deviation from the Moffat model, any present-day vision of Doctor Who that isn't Moffat's, is therefore a diversion at best and a waste of effort at worst - hence his dismissal of Big Finish, post-revival BF especially.

You're spot on there. I found his thoughts on the classic series amazingly well written and when he got to the Wilderness Years, which was for me in a lot of ways MY Doctor Who I was like "what the hell?" It was painfully obvious what his agenda was after awhile. And it was disappointing because I'd hoped to hear his wonderful analysis on some of the audios and whatnot.

Astroman fucked around with this message at 02:06 on Sep 17, 2014

# ¿ Sep 17, 2014 02:04

Astroman: Apr 8, 2001

CobiWann posted:

You see, Scotland? YOU SEE WHAT YOU MADE HIM DO?!?

Don�t worry, Jerusalem. Look who�s coming back to Big Finish next year!

http://www.bigfinish.com/news/v/doctor-who-main-range-the-next-fifth-doctor-stories-announced

I've been going through the 5 Full TARDIS Team stories and while I have quite a few yet before I'm "caught up" I'm glad to see they aren't retiring this group anytime soon. I've been waiting for them to break up the band and say "oh well Nyssa's leaving now again" or something.

# ¿ Sep 20, 2014 05:40

Astroman: Apr 8, 2001

Spikeguy posted:

They said no flirting or romance, but it seems like he's interested in meddling with Clara's lovelife. But that could be more akin to a child who doesn't want their single parent dating someone new like in Problem Child 2.

I wonder if the theme is going to be that the person who is with the Doctor when he regenerates is "imprinted" on him so he becomes jealous if they pay attention to someone else? You can make that case for his fixation on Amy and Rose with the last two regenerations, certainly. It does lend some credence to the "negging" theory, much as I hate to say that.

Also, did anyone else have flashbacks to Frobisher standing in front of the 456 case in Children of Earth when 12 was in front of that fogged up glass cage containing The Teller? :allears:

# ¿ Sep 21, 2014 15:45

Astroman: Apr 8, 2001

Spatula City posted:

I have a question for the old-timers: has the Doctor ever been so precise with the TARDIS that he could land it inside fairly small spaces the way Twelve has done multiple times? Because I don't remember him ever purposefully doing it in the revival. He just didn't have the control.

He finally read the manual while on Trenzalore. :v:

Train Surgeon posted:

I've been thinking , isn't it time for one of the modern companions (current being Clara ofcourse) to get a somewhat happy ending when being written out? I get that tragedy can be engaging to watch, but looking back there weren't really a lot so far...

Rose :stuck in alternate dimension. consolation prize : Tennant Realdoll
Martha: became militarized, treated as Rebound Not-Rose, eventually coupled up with other Black Companion
Donna : mind wiped of all her experiences, still alive however
(Astrid) : died
Amy & Rory : died of old age in another time, cut off from their families & the doctor
Timeline Clone Clara's : died

Just to defy expectations, i'd like to see them shake hands, say their goodbyes, return to a nice home with lives and memories intact to be called up for a cameo several years (and/or doctors) later

I've said it before, I think it's a function of the new companion narrative. The old narrative was "Doctor picks up a companion, they are trapped with him and can't get home and then they finally do." Now it's "companions can go home at any time and sometimes LIVE at home." So if they love traveling with the Doctor and want to forever, there has to be some reason why they have to stop. Parallel universe, undying freak who weirds out the Doctor, mindwipe, lost in time, etc.

Personally, I'm starting to wonder if the "domestic part time" companions who live at home aren't becoming enough of a trope that Moffat needs to change it up. Maybe after Clara we need to get someone who lives full time on the TARDIS and can't or won't go home. No family, no magic phone. Maybe they're on the run again, old school style.

# ¿ Sep 23, 2014 01:18

Astroman: Apr 8, 2001

After The War posted:

Not quite, but close...
http://youtu.be/Strhr9WxKHQ

That was pretty good, actually!

I also loved this one in the recommended links: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=josI9YR45dI

"...and Christopher Lee, as DRACULA!"

:allears:

# ¿ Sep 23, 2014 04:06

Astroman: Apr 8, 2001

g0del posted:

Peri got to marry Brian Blessed. That's a happy ending if I ever heard one.

"A fate worse than death", at least in the eyes of some Time Lords...

# ¿ Sep 23, 2014 23:49

Astroman: Apr 8, 2001

Bicyclops posted:

Kudos to her for playing a teenager so well, though. Hearing her is incredible, it's like they put her into a time capsule and pulled her out when they started doing Big Finish.

Sarah Sutton's young Nyssa is pretty good too. The gobsmaker though is Wendy Padbury. It's uncanny how effortlessly she sounds like 40 years younger self.

Edit:

I don't agree with you on much of the feminism in Doctor Who/Moffat is a misogynist issues, but I absolutely agree with you on this:

Bicyclops posted:

I do not have this difficulty with other programs. The Space Pope or whoever in Time of the Doctor, Ms. Delphox, Missy, Miss Kizlet and Madame Kovarian all have very similar writing with regard to their behavior, wardrobe& makeup , and dialogue. The problem isn't with this thread; it's with the showrunner.

Missy and Delphox were so similar as to make me think they were part of some sort of Easter Egg Bad Wolf pattern we're supposed to be looking for this season. And they are played so OTT they border on camp or parody.

Astroman fucked around with this message at 03:30 on Sep 25, 2014

# ¿ Sep 25, 2014 03:21

Astroman: Apr 8, 2001

It occurs to me it might be a good idea to rewatch Fires of Pompeii to see if there's anything there. I mean, Moffat didn't literally cast Capaldi because he wanted to bring back the actor that played Caecilius because of some symbolic reasons, but I'm sure Moffat rewatched Fires and saw some things in either Tennant's performance or Caecilius as a character that he thought might be worth mentioning later.

I'm assuming it will be some sort of thing where in the eyes of the Doctor, Caecilius symbolizes something, like a Good Man. But I'd have to rewatch to see if that has any legs.

# ¿ Sep 26, 2014 04:49

Astroman: Apr 8, 2001

Muppetjedi posted:

Did someone say Jo Grant?

CobiWann posted:

The Pertwee cosplay continues!

"Yes Katie."
...
"Well no, it's not for the show per se."
...
"It's...um, something Peter wanted. Just come to the set, OK?"

PriorMarcus posted:

She's teaching at the same school they worked at and the reason the alien robot was there this episode was the high amount of TARDIS landings over the many years.

Yep. Artron energy from multiple landings in 63, a Dalek time incursion the same year, and the Hand of Omega chilling for a few months in a cemetery nearby. Not to mention the residual artron energy from the bodies of Clara, Ian and Barbara who time traveled so much and then worked at the school for years.

It was interesting how the Doctor straight up lied when asked "did you bring this alien threat here?" Because he sure as hell did.
:crossarms:

Ms Boods posted:

That's what I meant -- I kept telling Mr Boods, 'Why doesn't the Doctor just ask Ian if it's ok to place his little gizmos all over the school?' and 'Gah, it would make everyone's life so much easier if they just got hold of Ian,' &c.

I think the best thing would be for the Doctor to come to some emotional personal crises in his friendship with Clara, and Ian pops up to give him some advice as someone who knew him from when he was much younger.

The_Doctor posted:

I'm sad there were no Remembrance references. Would it have killed them to have some burrrrnmarks on the playground still? <>

I think they did a good job of finding a remarkably similar building.

Overall I liked the episode. It does seem like they're going with the Doctor as "Space-Dad who wants Clara to date someone like himself, who is worthy" instead of "Doctor is jealous goony guy in love with Clara." The Matt Smith ringer was pretty funny.

# ¿ Sep 29, 2014 00:53

Astroman: Apr 8, 2001

Mr Beens posted:

Except that since the Time War (i.e. the revivial) the dctor has interacted with soldiers literally dozens of times that we have seen but, until Capaldi, he has never been outright hostile to an individual guy just because of his occupation (or former occupation). In fact we have seen the doctor working with soldiers in an amicable fashion loads of times.
Being a dick to the guy and not trusting him before getting to know him is fair enough, but they are laying on this "I hate soldiers, blahghblahg" thing to thick and it has come out of nowhere.

Apart from this I am really enjoying Capaldi doctor

Here's my theory: the Doctor isn't just coming out of a "post Time War" state of mind. Let's not forget we don't really know him all that well as of late...he spent hundreds of years on Trenzalore, almost more of his life then we've ever seen a span of in all his previous televised/audio adventures. In that time, he was a Toymaker using non-violence to fend off attacks by thousands of soldiers of hundreds of races attacking innocent people.

It's fair to say his feelings on soldiers may have changed since the last time he worked with UNIT or saw Captain Jack. For us, it's been just a year; for him it's been hundreds of years.

thousandcranes posted:

Thought some aspects of the sitcom were funny, but lost all goodwill towards the episode the second the doctor and Danny started interacting. I don't care the context, I don't wanna watch a show where an old white guy just can't loving believe a black guy could be a math teacher. (OK, maybe context could help it, but the context is so god drat stupid it doesn't)

Then don't watch it. So because Danny is black, the Doctor can't have any negative feelings towards him whatsoever? The Doctor didn't dislike Danny because he was black, it was because he was a soldier. Would it have been better if Danny was white?

You are no doubt going to respond with :words:

about how "YOU CAN'T JUST CAST BLACK PEOPLE IN NEGATIVE ROLES REGARDLESS OF CONTEXT BECAUSE OF THE INHERENT PROBLEMATIC ISSUES IN THE REAL WORLD AND THE STEREOTYPES THIS CASTING REINFORCES!"

But consider this: if the character of Danny Pink was developed without regard to race as a "former soldier who the Doctor dislikes" he would have to be cast as white in order to make your concerns vanish. So you have a major character who was cast as black, and by doing so it reinforces positive messages about interracial romances...but you can't have him as black because the Doctor will dislike him?

So either he can be played as written by a white actor or watered down into a no conflict character. Which would you choose? Not everything is about racism. If it is, then you can't cast black actors in any role where they have flaws whatsoever (especially dumb in this case, since in most aspects Danny is preternaturally competent and cool, and the Doctor is clearly in the wrong for disliking him).

# ¿ Sep 29, 2014 04:02

Astroman: Apr 8, 2001

I think that's the point though. It's off-putting and it should be off-putting because the Doctor is wrong here, and we know it. It's probably something that goes back to the Time War, when he was as Danny said, an officer, the accusations of Davros about how he molds his companions to be soldiers, and him fighting a losing war against the combined armies of the universe at Trenzalore for ages.

The Doctor has some serious issues, and working through them will be a plot point.

Some of it could have to do with Gallifrey. It was set up after the 50th that Gallifrey was out there somewhere and the Doctor should find it, but he got sidetracked by Trenzalore. Now he's free, and working on some Mysterious Equations which may or may not have to do with finding Gallifrey, but he is no doubt wondering--does he DESERVE to find Gallifrey? Is he a Good Man? If he brings it back, will it indeed bring back the Time War and force him back into battle again to become the soldier he hates?

# ¿ Sep 29, 2014 05:19

Astroman: Apr 8, 2001

marktheando posted:

Captain Jack was a time agent and had that time travel thing he wore on his wrist.

But I think in the classic series it was implied that the Time Lords prevented other species from developing time travel.

The vaguely established canon is that while the Time Lords did stop many races from developing time travel, Daleks and Sontarans did. Humans did sometime around the year 5000, the era of the Time Agents (like Jack) and Magnus Greel.

# ¿ Sep 30, 2014 02:50

Astroman: Apr 8, 2001

DoctorWhat posted:

The Fourth Wall (Six/Flip) is really really good.

Agreed, and seconding Live 34. Never understood why people dislike that one.

Some of the sequels to original series episodes were really good. The Peladon stories kinda bored me on the old show, the Draconians were just sort of there, interesting and unexplored, and I felt the Mara was played out. Big Finish took all these concepts and really did amazing jobs with them.
The Bride of Peladon was extremely compelling.
Paper Cuts was not at all what I was expecting, very deep, complex, and a fascinating exploration of Draconian culture.
Cradle of the Snake takes the Mara back to it's origins but in a whole new direction, by showing Manussa before the fall as the capital of a futuristic space empire with a very modern society.

Cradle is one of the 5/Nyssa/Tegan/Turlough stories and most all of them are pretty amazing. If you listen vaguely in order you find that by 2010 BF just had mastered the medium and almost every story is head and shoulders above the early efforts in every aspect--writing, acting, directing, sfx. Cobwebs, and The Whispering Forest I thought were really great too. Heroes of Sontar is funny and solid. Kiss of Death is outstanding, both as a story and a delve into Turlough. Rat Trap was the only one so far I've heard of that run I would not recommend.

# ¿ Oct 1, 2014 13:30

Astroman: Apr 8, 2001

Crusader posted:

Does Peter Capaldi have a Twitter somebody can send this to?* :allears:

*Disclaimer: I have no idea how Twitter works. Is that how it works?

# ¿ Oct 3, 2014 04:39

Astroman: Apr 8, 2001

I'm wondering if they aren't trying to set up a scenario where this new "First Doctor" is going to travel with a schoolgirl and two teachers from Coal Hill School?

# ¿ Oct 5, 2014 12:16

Astroman: Apr 8, 2001

marktheando posted:

The Whomobile owns.

I'm surprised Capaldi hasn't trotted it out yet...

# ¿ Oct 6, 2014 01:55

Astroman: Apr 8, 2001

I wasn't as much a fan of The Other as I was Looms in the Cartmel Masterplan. Not for the "Doctor is a chaste permavirgin" stuff, but for the ideal that the Time Lords were so stultified that they had to resort to test tube babies to survive. And it was an ossification of their own doing, out of Rassilon's hubris. It explained a lot of why the Time Lords were the way they were onscreen.

# ¿ Oct 10, 2014 05:54

Astroman: Apr 8, 2001

Neddy Seagoon posted:

I loved their cover too . If you want some more good genre-swapping music, check out Postmodern Jukebox on Youtube.

jazzradio-reprises.radio.fr/ is another great station that has a lot of jazz covers of pop and rock songs from 80s to present mixed heavily in their playlist. I listen to it a lot in my car on Xiia.

FWIW I think while you can read in some deep meaning to Foxes doing that song as being an anachronism, I think it was more "hey, let's get a hip pop singer to do a cameo and sing something atmospheric" on the producers parts.

# ¿ Oct 15, 2014 14:47

Astroman: Apr 8, 2001

I thought that was a great episode. The way the monsters moved was so creepy. Bound to give kids nightmares. I also loved it when Capaldi dashed out of the TARDIS for his big speech, and then does that little weird Capaldi run/shuffle :3:

I also think they've really gone in such a fantastic direction with Clara's character. I'm not sure how much, if at all, Moffat and the BBC were worried about losing the Tumblr NuWho fans going to an older Doctor, but if they were then moving the young audience identification character into such a prominent role and blurring her with the lead was a great preemptive response.

# ¿ Oct 19, 2014 21:21

Astroman: Apr 8, 2001

I think looking like a McCoy episode is part of the charm. :colbert:

# ¿ Oct 22, 2014 22:17

Astroman: Apr 8, 2001

Was it just me or on BBC America at least was the episode in some weird disconcerting mix of film and video? It was like that Monty Python skit and it just kept taking me out. Like some shots were in this crisp, clear video look and then it would snap back into a filmish style.

Maybe I watched it on the BBCA HD for the first time or something? I thought I always did though.

It was odd and kept taking me out of the episode. :confused:

# ¿ Oct 26, 2014 03:12

Astroman: Apr 8, 2001

Irony Be My Shield posted:

Yeah it looks like a fob watch twist to me. The idea of The Master deliberately choosing to regenerate into a young woman in order to get picked up by The Doctor is pretty amusing . Or maybe it's some other Time Lord.

Then again if that were the twist then I wouldn't expect them put such a big hint for it in the preview, so it could just be a fakeout.

If they do something like that I'd have a really tough time with reconciling how Clara threw herself in the Doctor's timestream. She's either the companion who split herself into a million pieces to save the Doctor or she's some kind of sleeper agent enemy...I don't see how she's both. :colbert:

# ¿ Oct 26, 2014 14:53

Astroman: Apr 8, 2001

Irony Be My Shield posted:

Well, the fob watch does make you forget your old identity.

Also The Master doesn't want The Doctor dead, and he definitely wouldn't want someone else to kill him. He seems to enjoy manipulating and torturing The Doctor more than anything else. I can kindof see "Force The Doctor to fight his beloved companion" as a scheme of his.

Another thing I would not look forward to is the e-rage from people about how this ruins Clara's character development and takes away her feminine agency. :jerkbag:

"...~~Vader's~~ Clara's beautiful ~~black visage~~ female character development is sullied when he she pulls off ~~his~~ her mask to reveal a feeble, crusty, old white man! They tryin' to tell us that deep inside we all wants to be ~~white~~ men!"

Yeah, the more I think about it the more I do not want this to happen.

# ¿ Oct 26, 2014 18:59

Astroman: Apr 8, 2001

marktheando posted:

Well it would. Finally giving Clara some character development is one of the things this series has done right, and if she really did never exist and was just some construct for Missy's evil scheme that would just be pissing all that away.

Yeah, and I'd be opposed to it for the same reason's I'd be opposed to anyone in the show, regardless of sex, to have their character development stripped away. I'd be opposed if they pulled that bullshit with Jack or Turlough after their redemption arcs, and Donna after her great development. It cheapens a really great character who did a great thing, and then really grew in writing and character.

poo poo, I'm still burning over the idea that River turned out to be Amy and Rory's daughter/Mels. But upon reflection this is probably something Moffat will do because he thinks these big reveals of stuff that was UNDER OUR NOSE THE WHOLE TIME! is his style. I just don't look forward to the people thinking it's part of his Anti-Woman Agenda as opposed to just a cheap writing stunt.

I generally like Moffat a lot more than most, and I still am glad he was the one to be in charge of the Anniversary year because he nailed that whole sequence of episodes. I think though he's becoming like M Night Shyamalan (everything needs a twist) or RTD (everything needs a secret arc that was hinted at all season). It's like he's trying too hard.

I mean, let's face it...the reveal of The Master that RTD did was something that can never be topped, ever, and it's pointless to try. I really really hope he doesn't try to go there.

# ¿ Oct 26, 2014 19:44

Astroman: Apr 8, 2001

My favorite part was where Sandifer decided to write off everything from the novels and Big Finish, including the high quality canon stuff they are still producing now, as irrelevant. :allears:

I was just listening to Industrial Evolution and it was kinda jarring when they kept talking to that guy's daughter Clara. Then it dawned on me...what if she WAS Clara? :aaaaa:

# ¿ Oct 27, 2014 00:17

Astroman: Apr 8, 2001

I said my big issue with Sandifer was his slagging of the books and audios, and to elaborate, it's because of why he did so. He went into this project from the beginning with a conclusion in mind. He was going to watch the show from Unearthly Child, read the books, listen to the audios, and come out into the apotheosis of the Plationian Perfect Form of Doctor Who as realized by Russell T Davies. But he made it seem like he was just objectively critiquing the whole series with no agenda.

I realize that the audios are a peripheral part of the mythos, but Sandifer acts as though they ended in 2005. They don't neatly fit into the "Wilderness Years" narrative so that's that. Sandifer constructed this premise that the show was cancelled, the fans kinda kept a dim flame going, and then their meager, paltry efforts were crushed beneath the mighty triumphant return of the full show. Meanwhile you have writers and actors working on both series to this day, cross pollinating ideas, the audio showrunner is a major tv monster voice and the tv one canonized the audios.

Which to me is pretty crappy scholarly work from a self confessed graduate student in media criticism or whatever he's degreed in.

# ¿ Oct 27, 2014 04:46

Astroman: Apr 8, 2001

Bicyclops posted:

Please do not refer to other fascist automatons as Daleks. Use the terms "Dalek-like" or "reminiscent of Davros' ~~robots~~ mutant creatures." Please preserve the brand integrity of the majestic Dalek by only referring to genuine, Kaled approved Daleks using that name. Thank you.

-Davros

Yvonmukluk posted:

Well good news everyone, they might make Doctor Who Lego in the future! Assuming the proposed designs make it past the Lego approval process.

When I was a kid we just made our OWN Doctor Who legos. I had a TARDIS exterior, console room set, and Daleks.

# ¿ Oct 28, 2014 02:10

Astroman: Apr 8, 2001

Doctor Spaceman posted:

Sean Pertwee's Halloween costume.

Oh, he's cosplaying as 12, how clever! :v:

Fil5000 posted:

Honestly, Time is appalling. It's up there with The Twin Dilemma for me as serials that I had to force myself to watch. As a kid, Time is the first serial I can properly remember watching all of (I have hazy recollections of bits of Revelation and of bloody Terror of the sodding Vervoids), and I've no idea why I ended up watching any more.

My first entire remembered watch, the one that got me hooked on the show was...Timelash(! Most people depart...with a scream!).

So yeah, same.

# ¿ Nov 1, 2014 05:09

Astroman: Apr 8, 2001

Teek posted:

I don't mind the reveal, I'm just not really sure what Missy being the Master is bringing to the series at this point. Though her killing of Doctor Chang at least sat better in hindsight, had that been an evil Romana, it would have been unfortunate.

It makes me wonder though, is this a Regenerated Simm Master or has he taken someone else's body? I ask because there are still some Missy lines from earlier in the season which have yet to be explained, like her "I think I'll keep it" regarding 12's accent. If the Master took over a Time Lady body, it leads me to wonder if "Missy" might have been someone noteworthy before the Master took over and now he wants to take over the Doctor's body yet again. Of course if this is the Simm Master regenerated, then it's just a strange line.

I would imagine it's just Simm regenerated, as the implication is they gave the Master a new set of lives and he cut and ran during the Time War; Jacobi would have been the first or second of a new cycle, Simm the 3rd. The biggest question is how did he get out of the Time Lock and does he know where Gallifrey is?

Jerusalem posted:

Jacobi reveal was superior, but that's no knock against this one because I mean goddamn, it was Derek Jacobi!

I think this reveal came in a superior episode though. I always thought Utopia was a pretty uninspired episode outside of a little of the interaction between the Doctor and Jack, but it's easy to forget how bland most of the episode is because it serves mostly as a delivery mechanism for Jacobi's performance and the amazing reveal/cliffhanger.

The Jacobi reveal was the best for me because it hit me like a ton of bricks. I'd been reading the spoiler thread and I knew:
1) Jacobi might be a Time Lord
2) The Master was coming back

It was implied the Master might kill Jacobi, and when we saw the kindly old Professor I was lulled into a false sense of complacency. Then...Y A N A :aaaaa:

DoctorWhat posted:

Well, the out-of-loving-nowhere one-two punch of John Hurt's first appearance, and the subsequent release of Night of the Doctor, are the only things that can even begin to compare.

Yeah, McGann topped Jacobi easily.

PriorMarcus posted:

Well yeah, as soon as the Master regenerates into a woman he starts calling the Doctor his boyfriend, having a massive crush on him and snogging him passionately. It's the perils of being a woman in Moffat's eyes.

Did you...ya know...miss the hypersexualized subtext between Simm and 10?

"Doctor, are you asking me...out on a date?"

# ¿ Nov 2, 2014 03:56

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# ¿ Apr 25, 2024 16:27

Astroman: Apr 8, 2001

Burkion posted:

If this is the Master, and I have only the slightest of doubt that it is, then she shouldn't be embracing her new-found gender, instead she should be reviled by it. Throwing the odd put down of the failing of her own form, have some self loathing and amplify her inherent flaws when it comes to her opinions of the female sex.

A female Master wouldn't be A-OK with it and embrace it and take every chance to snog the Doctor- she'd be perpetually pissed at all times and generally disgusted with herself. She'd insist to STILL be a Time LORD, and more importantly, STILL THE MASTER.

So what, she should dyke it up a bit? Wear men's clothes and speak with a deep voice and yell about misgendering when someone calls her a woman? :confused:

I think that while we're seeing this through the lens of a loving insane Time Lord, it may be an opportunity to see how a different, non-human culture looks at gender and sex roles and moving between them. It could be interesting to say the least, though of course people will be projecting human standards on the situation so it's a big ol' can of worms.

# ¿ Nov 2, 2014 04:42

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > TV IV > Doctor Who series 8 (34): Eyebrows! Eyebrows since the dawn of Time!

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