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Mu Zeta
Oct 17, 2002

Me crush ass to dust





https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FZdk7LHQ0o

This lovely show comes back Sept 21 in the UK. It's airing January 2015 in the US.

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pentyne
Nov 7, 2012
turdiak


I can't wait for the subplot where one of the servants has a romance with someone they're not supposed to and the show spends 2 episodes with people discussing people needing to stay in their proper place.

Also, that trailer made it look like Carson was going to put on a cape and cowl and starting fighting social climbers to maintain the status quo.

Everytime I watch the show and its "Oh no we're going to lose the estate" I think of the Real Downton Abbey, Highclere Castle, and the insane chain of events that kept it standing, mostly luck, but by the 60s the house was practically unlivable and its only thanks to Downton tourism they can afford the $25 mill desperately need to restore the house.

The Crawleys desperately sturggling to keep their estate through the depression in the run-up to WW2 would be 100x more interesting then "My word, this servant's attitude is far to grand for his station"

pentyne fucked around with this message at 02:11 on Sep 18, 2014

Octy
Apr 1, 2010



pentyne posted:

The Crawleys desperately sturggling to keep their estate through the depression in the run-up to WW2 would be 100x more interesting then "My word, this servant's attitude is far to grand for his station"

To be fair they had a bit of this during season 2 when they moaned about only being able to keep one footman because they didn't have enough money.

pentyne
Nov 7, 2012
turdiak


Octy posted:

To be fair they had a bit of this during season 2 when they moaned about only being able to keep one footman because they didn't have enough money.

No, that was because they were all called up to die in the trenches.

Season 3 started with "Robert loses all the money by investing it all a single company" and solved that real quick with "Matthew's former potential father in-law left him his massive fortune after the first 2 on the list died" and the season 4 was all about "Mary gets nothing" until they found a random letter Matthew wrote that made her his heir.

Octy
Apr 1, 2010



pentyne posted:

No, that was because they were all called up to die in the trenches.

Season 3 started with "Robert loses all the money by investing it all a single company" and solved that real quick with "Matthew's former potential father in-law left him his massive fortune after the first 2 on the list died" and the season 4 was all about "Mary gets nothing" until they found a random letter Matthew wrote that made her his heir.

I don't recall any of them dying in the trenches? I think you take this show too seriously.

Nude Bog Lurker
Jan 2, 2007


Fun Shoe

Can't wait for Thomas to continue to carry out his insane decades-long vendetta against Bates.

RobinPierce
Aug 29, 2009


Octy posted:

I don't recall any of them dying in the trenches? I think you take this show too seriously.

Except, you know, William. But I guess technically that was at home.

pentyne
Nov 7, 2012
turdiak


Nude Bog Lurker posted:

Can't wait for Thomas to continue to carry out his insane decades-long vendetta against Bates.

It seems like decades but its only been 11 years. At the rate the show is going we won't see the Great Depression hit until Series 8/9, if it lasts that long. Just take a look at the timeline

Series 1: April 1912 to August 1914
Series 2: 1916-1919
Series 3: March-Sept. 1920. Xmas special Sept 1921.
Series 4: Feb-Aug 1922. Xmas special Summer 1923.
Series 5: Starts 1924.

It went from covering 2-3 years across the regular season to 7 months then a 1 year timeskip for the special. Either this show gets canned in the next year or 2, or it lasts for 10-15 seasons.

Mu Zeta
Oct 17, 2002

Me crush ass to dust



Moseley is the new Edith

pentyne
Nov 7, 2012
turdiak


Oh, Downton, it just wouldn’t be same without the first scene of the season being Edith being a sad sack staring wistfully at her bastard child from a distance.

I’m going to assume that Daisy was like 14-15 when the show started, because otherwise her character makes no sense at all. 11 years later and she’s upset and wants to feel like “a real adult” to take over the Mason farm yet since William’s death has lunched with William’s father twice, and shown absolutely no sign of working with him to get an understanding of the farm. Now she’s all subdued and embarrassed over wanting to learn basic accounting and Carson is steadfastly against the idea and shocked that a cook would bother to educate herself.

And for fucks sake can Molesley have any less dignity? Just run away with Ms Baxter, open up a shop, enjoy your golden years together, and quit being a bumbling doofus. Just out of curiosity, what was that poo poo he put in his hair?

As a note, Barrow is super eager to ferret out the gossip about Bates, that being that Anna was raped by Gillingham’s valet, Bates killed said valet, committed an almost perfect crime. Barrow has been a total rear end in a top hat all series but holding that over someone’s head seems really hosed up, even for him. Plus, that means Bates will probably kill Barrow in another of his “perfect crimes”. It was fun to watch Barrow chat with James over his Lady troubles, but then every good scene was undercut by him being a vile rear end in a top hat. Him getting smacked down by Cora was also a delight, but it was pretty transparent that Barrow is going to steal some poo poo and blame Baxter for it.

So, the only interesting characters in the show remain Tom (barely), The Dowager, and Mr. Drewe. Gillingham actually has a bit more to him now other than “hey, marry me please?” He’s clearly in love with Mary, chats casually about marriage with her, but on the whole seems much more laid back about it and not concerned with traditional courtship behavior. Ms. Bunting was fantastic as someone who finally speaks reality to the gathered nobles and flat out say “Hey, that war was bullshit.” while Robert just gets angry and tells her she’s wrong, the refuses to let the discussion continue.

All in it was a pretty decent episode, plus we got to see the kickass fireman helmets they wore back then.

thehustler
Apr 17, 2004

I am very curious about this little crescendo


Barrow started the fire, right? To then be the hero and get back in the good books?

Mu Zeta
Oct 17, 2002

Me crush ass to dust



I think Edith started the fire?

Shadow Puppet Of
Feb 13, 2014

If I worked there I'd have freaked out long ago and smeared toner all over my naked body, flopping around to spell out "I TOLD YOU SO!" on the carpet until campus security could drag me away.
:xbone:


There was even a George Lucas-esque 'lost lightsaber reaction shot' of the thrown book bridging the hearth onto the carpet.

"Molesley you look very, latin of a sudden, do you have any Italian blood?"

pentyne posted:

I’m going to assume that Daisy was like 14-15 when the show started, because otherwise her character makes no sense at all. 11 years later and she’s upset and wants to feel like “a real adult” to take over the Mason farm yet since William’s death has lunched with William’s father twice, and shown absolutely no sign of working with him to get an understanding of the farm. Now she’s all subdued and embarrassed over wanting to learn basic accounting and Carson is steadfastly against the idea and shocked that a cook would bother to educate herself.

You forget that last season reverse-aged Daisy nearly 8 years. So she is only around 16 these days. If she fails at her maths correspondence and brings shame unto her class of urchins they will take several more years away from her and give them to Barrow to fuel his decade+ reign of unsuccessful conniving.

Its the effect of all those stray electricity vapors interacting with dryrot and repointed masonry. English Time Capsule syndrome I think they call it.

Shadow Puppet Of fucked around with this message at 13:30 on Sep 22, 2014

smg77
Apr 27, 2007


Neither Isis or Daisy ever age.

Namirsolo
Jan 20, 2009

Like that, babe?

smg77 posted:

Neither Isis or Daisy ever age.

I prefer to believe that Lord Grantham just names all of his dogs Isis. He's on at least number 3 now.

pentyne
Nov 7, 2012
turdiak


God.

loving.

Damnit.

Another "Bates maybe killed someone and is now a suspect" plot. They just don't care how many old plots they reuse.

LegoMan
Mar 17, 2002

ting ting ting



College Slice

I'm pretty much done with this poo poo show. Oh hey Thomas is in trouble oh he did something helpful to the family time to forget all of the poo poo he's pulled lets promote him again. Oh hey Bates and Anna can't ever be happy. It's been 5 seasons you'd think they could come up with something interesting.

mr. unhsib
Sep 19, 2003
I hate you all.

Another Bates maybe killed someone plot. Another Tom seeks leverage on others to use against Bates plot. Another Lord Grantham is perturbed by social progress plot. Another who will Mary gently caress plot. Another Downton staffer seeks education to improve her career prospects plot. This season loving blows.

pentyne
Nov 7, 2012
turdiak


mr. unhsib posted:

Another Bates maybe killed someone plot. Another Tom seeks leverage on others to use against Bates plot. Another Lord Grantham is perturbed by social progress plot. Another who will Mary gently caress plot. Another Downton staffer seeks education to improve her career prospects plot. This season loving blows.

Swirling the drain, but people keep tuning in en masse so it'll last forever. The 'drop' in ratings for the new season was a change from the normal 12 million viewers to 8 million, still an insane viewing figure for ITV. PBS regularly gets 8+ million for their broadcast, which is greater then most of the big 4 networks can expect.

Onomarchus
Jun 4, 2005



The fire brought up a question I think I've been having for a while anyway: where does Lady Isis sleep?

pentyne
Nov 7, 2012
turdiak


So, is Thomas looking to get some gay-to-straight conversion quack treatment? That might be the first new thing the show has done in seasons.

pentyne
Nov 7, 2012
turdiak


I can't tell if the show wants to make Robert in the right or not. At best Tom is now fully convinced that he's taken a position in a society he wholeheartedly rejects and Robert has been reaffirmed as a completely combative rear end in a top hat incapable of the simplest thing that challenges his world view, before he magnanimously decides to change his viewpoint for the sake of "the estate". But seriously, Robert is an Earl, and just seconds before he basically challenged the idea that his servant would want to learn and clearly the entire process was causing a huge disturbance to the other servants, then when proven 100% wrong he just pretends like he was almost right and continues on, finally throwing a tantrum when Ms. Bunting correctly states he wants his servants(she said serfs, but that wasn't the point) to know their place. Is he a man or a child? I can't tell, I can only assume being raised in a system where he was a privileged elite and no one would dare question or defy him except a peer means the slightest backtalk from a commoner causes him to rage that he can't lock them in irons for their audacity.

His anger at that art dealer who's clearly interested in Cora is also fun to watch. I kind of get the feeling that the art dealer is gay, but so excited at the prospect of finding lost paintings and naturally charming that it looks like he's flirting with her when he thinks he's made a great friend.

And for fucks sake AGAIN. This is 3 entire episodes where they keep bringing back the same sergeant going "Oh well, shucks, sorry to bother you, but its a troubling little thing that slowly crept up". Why the gently caress is the London police of the 1920s devoting a huge amount of manpower and time to a 2+ year old murder because someone suddenly came forth and reported that she heard a mysterious whisper right before his death? Why would plainclothes detectives be following all these suspects? The Metro police in the 1950s/60s was so corrupt and inefficient it made 1970s NYPD look like Mayberry and I refuse to believe that in the 1920s it was somehow this tireless force dedicated to chasing down any obscure piece of information for any crime committed in the city, constantly traveling up and down the entire country to talk to people.

I mean what the gently caress is wrong with you Julian Fellows? With the first time you introduced it, Bates was worried he might be accused of his wife's death, and then arrested flat out, not 3-4 episodes of him repeatedly being questioned. If you're going to rehash the same plots over and over they aren't made unique by simply dragging them out.

So, Ms. Bunting is no longer hiding her enormous contempt for the Grantham family, and it's starting to look like Daisy will soon face trouble for her audacity to learn. Thomas is doing some horrifically painful gay to straight drug conversion, Moslesly is bitching that being first footman is meaningless without a second footman. It looks like Mrs. Crawley might marry Lord Merton, but maybe not.

Oh, and Gillingham raging at Mary for her dining with Charles Blake and her sudden reluctance to be with him. I'm on his side, Mary is being a confusing bitch, flitting from one opinion to the next with no care that her casual change of heart is seriously affecting the people she care/cared for.

I will point out my favorite part of the episode


A hands free wine decanter? That was probably the first modern thing Carson ever saw and immediately told his Lordship "We must have this for the staff".

Nude Bog Lurker
Jan 2, 2007


Fun Shoe

Laughing out loud in real life if you don't think Mrs Hughes killed Mr Green.

pentyne
Nov 7, 2012
turdiak


Nude Bog Lurker posted:

Laughing out loud in real life if you don't think Mrs Hughes killed Mr Green.

At this point the actual murderer is secondary to the fact that London police apparently scour the entire English country side trying to investigate an old murder.

Speaking of insane things, all this focus on Daisy this season made me curious so I looked up the actress.



is the exact same person as this



Making people look like members of the servant class makes them almost unrecognizable when they get fully made up. You want another huge transformation, take a look at how Ms. O'Brian's actress looks in real life.

pentyne fucked around with this message at 09:16 on Oct 13, 2014

Nektu
Jul 4, 2007

FUKKEN FUUUUUUCK


Cybernetic Crumb

pentyne posted:

I can't tell if the show wants to make Robert in the right or not. At best Tom is now fully convinced that he's taken a position in a society he wholeheartedly rejects and Robert has been reaffirmed as a completely combative rear end in a top hat incapable of the simplest thing that challenges his world view, before he magnanimously decides to change his viewpoint for the sake of "the estate". But seriously, Robert is an Earl, and just seconds before he basically challenged the idea that his servant would want to learn and clearly the entire process was causing a huge disturbance to the other servants, then when proven 100% wrong he just pretends like he was almost right and continues on, finally throwing a tantrum when Ms. Bunting correctly states he wants his servants(she said serfs, but that wasn't the point) to know their place. Is he a man or a child?
Nah, hes just an englishman ;)

Keeping up the pretense is basically his job description. And considering that he has been bullied by his wife, his daughters, tom and the whole world to accept the new ways of life from basically the very beginning of season 1, im not surprised that there finally is some kind of backlash.

Character progression in my downton? Why I never!

And Ms. Bunty is kinda rude - get invited to dinner? Ok, lets just shove my differing opinions down my hosts throats (again) and make them look bad :haw:.

Of course they roll Robert back to "wise earl that juuust wants whats best for the estate" in the end because character progression is made by the devil after all.


Cora on the other hand is turning into something. Did she insist on Ms Bunty coming to dinner because of Tom or to "teach" her husband who wont let her take part in things? Because I have real trouble believing the first explanation - yes, Tom needs someone, but Ms Bunty has proven to be consistently able of creating drama, and she really has no reason to believe that it will be different this time.

Nektu fucked around with this message at 18:33 on Oct 13, 2014

pentyne
Nov 7, 2012
turdiak


Nektu posted:

Nah, hes just an englishman ;)

Keeping up the pretense is basically his job description. And considering that he has been bullied by his wife, his daughters, tom and the whole world to accept the new ways of life from basically the very beginning of season 1, im not surprised that there finally is some kind of backlash.

Character progression in my downton? Why I never!

And Ms. Bunty is kinda rude - get invited to dinner? Ok, lets just shove my differing opinions down my hosts throats (again) and make them look bad :haw:.

Of course they roll Robert back to "wise earl that juuust wants whats best for the estate" in the end because character progression is made by the devil after all.


Cora on the other hand is turning into something. Did she insist on Ms Bunty coming to dinner because of Tom or to "teach" her husband who wont let her take part in things? Because I have real trouble believing the first explanation - yes, Tom needs someone, but Ms Bunty has proven to be consistently able of creating drama, and she really has no reason to believe that it will be different this time.

The rest of the family besides Robert saw Emily as someone who shares Tom's views and would be good for him, until she decided to be a complete disrespectful rear end in a top hat to them. After the scene where she confronted the Russian refugees and tried to lecture them about how they deserved what happened and that communism was the right path Tom should've taken her aside and told her to cut the poo poo and have some basic respect for people. The previews for the next episode look like he's going to confront her over it but I expect another long winded "these people need to be brought down" rant from her.

Speaking of, I'm pretty sure in the mid 1920s communism was considered insidious and dangerous in Western democracies. Her constantly going off about communism being better (I'm assuming she does this) would attract a notorious amount of attention and make her a potential suspect by the police of contributing/supporting banned political parties.

Chairman Capone
Dec 17, 2008



pentyne posted:

Speaking of, I'm pretty sure in the mid 1920s communism was considered insidious and dangerous in Western democracies. Her constantly going off about communism being better (I'm assuming she does this) would attract a notorious amount of attention and make her a potential suspect by the police of contributing/supporting banned political parties.

In the US maybe, not so much in (most of) Europe. The communists were major parties in France, Italy, and Germany, and even in the UK there were communist MPs (though not many) until the 1950 election. The early to mid 1920s were when the communists were still able to have a relatively-decent working relationship with Labour, and it was the 1924 Labour government that established ties with the USSR. It's really not until the Ukrainian famine and the show trials in the 1930s that criticisms start to really bubble up in the British left against the Soviets. Even outside the communist party itself there were dockworker strikes in 1918-20 over refusing to load navy ships that were going to participate in the war against the Bolsheviks.

Anarcho-Commissar
May 22, 2002

"The means of production being the collective work of humanity, the product should be the collective property of the race. Individual appropriation is neither just nor serviceable. All belongs to all."
- Pyotr Kropotkin




Am I wrong, or did they really say that Hitler himself probably murdered Michael?

:commissar:
(Formerly Colonial Air Force)

Nektu
Jul 4, 2007

FUKKEN FUUUUUUCK


Cybernetic Crumb

Colonial Air Force posted:

Am I wrong, or did they really say that Hitler himself probably murdered Michael?
They just said that he got into trouble with a band of brown-shirts?

Anarcho-Commissar
May 22, 2002

"The means of production being the collective work of humanity, the product should be the collective property of the race. Individual appropriation is neither just nor serviceable. All belongs to all."
- Pyotr Kropotkin




Nektu posted:

They just said that he got into trouble with a band of brown-shirts?

They specifically said the fight with their leader.

I guess that could be Rohm or whoever the guy was before him, but still.

counterfeitsaint
Feb 26, 2010

I'm a girl, and you're
gnomes, and it's like
what? Yikes.

What exactly is Barrow doing? I couldn't see the magazine really. Is he self administering super painful anti-gay injections?

Onomarchus
Jun 4, 2005



I wonder if Mary will end up marrying Lord Gillingham just to get him to help successfully keep Bates out of jail. Knowing this show, that (the marriage) will be a prospect that is threatened but won't actually come to pass.

pentyne
Nov 7, 2012
turdiak


Onomarchus posted:

I wonder if Mary will end up marrying Lord Gillingham just to get him to help successfully keep Bates out of jail. Knowing this show, that (the marriage) will be a prospect that is threatened but won't actually come to pass.

No, Mary's romance is going to be dragged out as long as possible. I expect some American tycoon who's a friend of Cora's family to come over to visit England and Mary will fall for him, so then its Gillingham (who she had sex with), other guy(who's now with Gillingham's ex), and random third person who's uniquely different.

I'd prefer more "Robert loses temper, looks like an rear end" scenes as the show continues. I've been eagerly waiting for them to get to the Great Depression but I think the writers have hit the breaks on the show's time progression because halfway through the season its only been 2 months, where as even last year when the timeline slowed to a crawl they still covered at least a month per episode.

Namirsolo
Jan 20, 2009

Like that, babe?

counterfeitsaint posted:

What exactly is Barrow doing? I couldn't see the magazine really. Is he self administering super painful anti-gay injections?

Yeah, I'm guessing it's some kind of "gay cure". I think it's a very interesting plot for them to explore and I wish that it would humanize him more. I once felt bad about him being struggling with his place in society, but then he went back to being a comic book villain.

pentyne
Nov 7, 2012
turdiak


Namirsolo posted:

Yeah, I'm guessing it's some kind of "gay cure". I think it's a very interesting plot for them to explore and I wish that it would humanize him more. I once felt bad about him being struggling with his place in society, but then he went back to being a comic book villain.

He's still being a hugely aggressive prick to everyone even when it's nearly cost him his job several times only for him to luck into Cora's graces. He was semi-human in season 1, where we knew from the start he was a closeted gay man who kept up his snide persona to try to hide is sexuality, season 2 he was openly combative to the staff when in charge of the medical stuff, lost all his money in a scam, then weaseled his way back into the house by rescuing the dog. I barely remember him in season 3 other then his fascination with Jimmy, and in season 4 he'd just ghost around making snide remarks and then fade away.

It's way to late to try and give him an actual personality, and it's not like he can live openly gay, so pretty much anything they do with him seems like pointless drama fuel.

Dadmancer
Apr 20, 2013


Namirsolo posted:

Yeah, I'm guessing it's some kind of "gay cure". I think it's a very interesting plot for them to explore and I wish that it would humanize him more. I once felt bad about him being struggling with his place in society, but then he went back to being a comic book villain.

My money's on Tom having a problem with opiates. The social effects of The Great War don't come through in Downton as much as in Peaky Blinders (other contemporary British drama).

Edit: Also that missing spoon points to some illicit cooking outside the kitchen.

pentyne
Nov 7, 2012
turdiak


Dadmancer posted:

My money's on Tom having a problem with opiates. The social effects of The Great War don't come through in Downton as much as in Peaky Blinders (other contemporary British drama).

Edit: Also that missing spoon points to some illicit cooking outside the kitchen.

It's very clearly some horrific anti-gay chemical therapy. That why he freaked out when Baxter read the the ad in the magazine about "Become the you that you want to be"

Dadmancer
Apr 20, 2013


pentyne posted:

It's very clearly some horrific anti-gay chemical therapy. That why he freaked out when Baxter read the the ad in the magazine about "Become the you that you want to be"

I dunno how I missed that! Thanks for clarifying.

olylifter
Sep 13, 2007

I'm bad with money and you have an avatar!

pentyne posted:

It's very clearly some horrific anti-gay chemical therapy. That why he freaked out when Baxter read the the ad in the magazine about "Become the you that you want to be"

So its just like Bates' attempt to fix his leg (which apparently isn't fucky at all any more) in the first season.

Any bets that it'll wind up causing him all kinds of harm and someone will talk him out of using it and he'll eventually see the light and quit it.

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pentyne
Nov 7, 2012
turdiak


That was a weird episode. Also, Robert does not know how to throw a punch at all. That looked like some random flailing around more then anything.

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