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Why cookie Rocket posted:I'd be really curious to read the "creative control" clause language in both WCW and WWE contracts. I work with technical consulting contracts all day and the idea of committing to something as vague as "creative control" is what my nightmares are made of. I would love to know the way it's defined, any limitations or constraints, etc. Could Bret Hart decide to go into a feud with whoever he wanted? Could he start wearing zubas? Could he have declared that he was actually a Venusian shapeshifter, and start doing a gimmick where he'd dive under the ring and Koko B. Ware would emerge as his "other form"? Meltzer described Bret's clause as "both sides had to agree on all booking" So if Vince was cool with Bret being a Venusian shapeshifter then it would all be gravy.
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Sep 24, 2014 20:06
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Bret's contract called for reasonable creative control over his matches and angles for the last 30 days of his contract. Based on Hogan's WCW creative control (which just covered matches) being ruled to include promos and promos about him, Bret at least had veto power over anything they wanted to do with him for the last month.
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Sep 24, 2014 20:11
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It is absolutely unbelievable that anyone including Hogan could get creative control over wins/losses, but that's just how the business was back then when there was competition.
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Sep 24, 2014 21:50
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Bigass Moth posted:It is absolutely unbelievable that anyone including Hogan could get creative control over wins/losses, but that's just how the business was back then when there was competition. Hogan also had creative control in TNA, which I love :insert jpg of Dixie begging Hogan to stay here:
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Sep 24, 2014 21:51
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Bigass Moth posted:It is absolutely unbelievable that anyone including Hogan could get creative control over wins/losses, but that's just how the business was back then when there was competition. Eric Bischoff was really, really serious about convincing Hogan who back in 1994 was basically finished with wrestling and focused on his acting career (lol). The reason why Hogan signed the WCW deal is because it promised film/TV roles and the creative control was just gravy. Bret's only veto with regards to his exit was A) Not to HBK B) Not in Canada. He pitched a couple other ideas for Vince to consider but Vince was apparently in pure control freak mode (so, basically any other day to Vince) that he was willing to blatantly violate a contract because the title HAD to be dropped on a PPV. Vince is totally in the wrong here but, as someone mentioned before, why the gently caress did he give Bret creative control knowing he has severe control issues that exist to this day? Especially since Bret was never once serious about jumping to WCW and even Bischoff knew there was no point in trying to convince Bret otherwise. There's no incentive to give it. Justin Godscock fucked around with this message at 23:07 on Sep 24, 2014 |
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Sep 24, 2014 23:03
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Justin Godscock posted:Eric Bischoff was really, really serious about convincing Hogan who back in 1994 was basically finished with wrestling and focused on his acting career (lol). The reason why Hogan signed the WCW deal is because it promised film/TV roles and the creative control was just gravy. The creative control was more than gravy. Hogan was worried WCW would ruin him, either by booking or by being associated with a failing product. That's why he did limited NJPW dates instead, he wanted to show producers he left the WWF and made wrestling hot in Japan. The money was obviously more important but it did take Flair selling him on it and control to sign.
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Sep 25, 2014 00:50
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On the whole "Bret takes himself too drat seriously/is a mark for himself" front, it's funny that Cornette brings that up in the shoot interview linked earlier, insinuating that Bret didn't understand it was a business and he should just go and make tons of money in WCW instead of all the stuff he did instead. Because Cornette said in another shoot that he's dieting and eating healthy 'these days'. Is it for himself, or his family? No, it's because he wants to outlive Vince Russo and literally piss on his grave when he's dead. Now, as far as I know, the only issue that Cornette and Russo ever had was that they were polar opposites in how they booked and ran wrestling. Russo never bankrupted Cornette, or hurt anyone he cared for, or got him fired, or anything like that: any wrong Russo did, you have to strain to make it direct. But Cornette is so enraged, so hateful of how Russo did his business, that he's actively working to improve his own health, solely so he can literally piss on a man's grave. Because he booked wrestling different from Cornette. What the hell is THAT? Wrestlers are all manchildren, in the end. Bret's just better known because the source of his grief is so drat big in actual wrestling history (and as said, I think it's all really misdirected Owen grief anyway).
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Sep 25, 2014 09:24
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Cornwind Evil posted:On the whole "Bret takes himself too drat seriously/is a mark for himself" front, it's funny that Cornette brings that up in the shoot interview linked earlier, insinuating that Bret didn't understand it was a business and he should just go and make tons of money in WCW instead of all the stuff he did instead. Because Cornette said in another shoot that he's dieting and eating healthy 'these days'. Is it for himself, or his family? No, it's because he wants to outlive Vince Russo and literally piss on his grave when he's dead. Russo got Cornette kicked off the booking team in the WWF and got him fired in TNA so they would hire Ed Ferrera instead. Russo did direct damage to Cornette's career.
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Sep 25, 2014 10:11
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MassRafTer posted:Russo got Cornette kicked off the booking team in the WWF and got him fired in TNA so they would hire Ed Ferrera instead. Russo did direct damage to Cornette's career. Somewhat more understandable. Still nowhere near rational. Especially considering any source worth anything considers Russo a lucky hack, at best, while they're far more forgiving of Cornette's flaws.
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Sep 25, 2014 10:17
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Hey man, whatever it takes to get healthy.
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Sep 25, 2014 17:48
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Animal-Mother posted:Is the Vince McMahon who thought Batista would get a hero's welcome after winning the Rumble the same Vince McMahon that orchestrated this master plan of all master plans? I have a friend that believes that the screwjob was a work, and that the everything about the recent Daniel Bryan angle, down to Batista's return and the Rumble reaction being planned that way. The great part is, even if WWE accidentally booked that stuff, they fell rear end backwards into the realization of how to work smarks in 2014. If you look at Cena's booking as heel to the smarks, face to the marks, it makes a ton of sense.
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Sep 25, 2014 21:31
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Cornwind Evil posted:Somewhat more understandable. Still nowhere near rational. Especially considering any source worth anything considers Russo a lucky hack, at best, while they're far more forgiving of Cornette's flaws. If someone got you fired from two high paying jobs that come with power and prestige in your industry, would you not hold a grudge? It's not like he isn't playing up the grudge for comedy purposes either. Vince Russo isn't the only reason he wants to be healthy. Edit: I should say one of which came with prestige. It's not like he had prestige working as an agent and consultant for TNA, it's TNA. But it's still incredibly insulting to have a guy tell your superiors "Fire him and hire my friend or else" and they do it. MassRafTer fucked around with this message at 21:46 on Sep 25, 2014 |
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Sep 25, 2014 21:44
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Animal-Mother posted:Is the Vince McMahon who thought Batista would get a hero's welcome after winning the Rumble the same Vince McMahon that orchestrated this master plan of all master plans? Yes. He's also the same McMahon who had "kiss my rear end club", wanted incest angles with his daughter, and necrophilia on his show, but was also filtered Vince Russo's ideas.
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Sep 25, 2014 22:26
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Cornwind Evil posted:Somewhat more understandable. Still nowhere near rational. Especially considering any source worth anything considers Russo a lucky hack, at best, while they're far more forgiving of Cornette's flaws. It's completely reasonable for Cornette to use hyperbole for comedic effect too.
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Sep 25, 2014 23:31
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Davros1 posted:Yes. He's also the same McMahon who had "kiss my rear end club", wanted incest angles with his daughter, and necrophilia on his show, but was also filtered Vince Russo's ideas. Vince is like Merlin, living his life backwards through time so when he orchestrated Montreal he was able to draw from tons of failed experiments like the 2015 TNA Invasion. Or he's just getting old and regresses into being a giggling teenager, which should be impossible because he never quite grew out of that to begin with.
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Sep 28, 2014 17:45
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Sometime on Raw, Vince is going to declare that his body is "wearing a bit thin", collapse, and regenerate.
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Sep 28, 2014 23:36
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On the topic of Bret punching Vince... I remember seeing an interview with (I think?) Brisco where he basically said that he thought Vince and Bret were going to have a full on fight, so he stepped on, and broke, Vince's ankle so Bret could get his one free shot in. I don't remember hearing this brought up any other time, but in the footage of Vince walking out of the locker room after the punch on the MNW episode, Vince is limping. Am I just making this interview up in my head?
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Oct 1, 2014 18:43
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Gar posted:On the topic of Bret punching Vince... I remember seeing an interview with (I think?) Brisco where he basically said that he thought Vince and Bret were going to have a full on fight, so he stepped on, and broke, Vince's ankle so Bret could get his one free shot in. I don't remember hearing this brought up any other time, but in the footage of Vince walking out of the locker room after the punch on the MNW episode, Vince is limping. The story as I always heard it was that Shane accidentally stepped on Vince's ankle in the scuffle that broke out separating Vince from Bret.
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Oct 1, 2014 19:00
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Require More Fire posted:The story as I always heard it was that Shane accidentally stepped on Vince's ankle in the scuffle that broke out separating Vince from Bret. I think I remember Bret saying in his book that Davey Boy screwed up his knee when Shane jumped on his back.
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Oct 1, 2014 22:59
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MassRafTer posted:If someone got you fired from two high paying jobs that come with power and prestige in your industry, would you not hold a grudge? It's not like he isn't playing up the grudge for comedy purposes either. Vince Russo isn't the only reason he wants to be healthy. He probably just uses it as motivation to push through whatever challenge he's overtaking in the gym. Pleanty of people do it. Years ago I was doing leg presses and a friend had mentioned to me that it's something I should ALWAYS push myself at because Lance Armstrong does them successfully and he has no balls. Cut to weeks later: my friend walks over to me, thinking I was struggling w/ more weight on leg presses and asked if I was ok. My response? "gently caress you, Lance." Course, I too have a list of people who I wish to outlive so I can piss on their graves so maybe....
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Oct 4, 2014 00:05
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Dead Snoopy posted:He probably just uses it as motivation to push through whatever challenge he's overtaking in the gym. Pleanty of people do it. I think the status in life is how many people you can get to want/need to piss on your grave. thats how you know you've made an impact in the world.
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Oct 4, 2014 21:09
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quote:In that period, there were two wrestlers I had to talk out of fighting with Michaels (neither of which was Hart Do we know who these two were?
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Oct 4, 2014 22:08
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Saul Goode posted:Do we know who these two were? I think it was those two biker dudes whom I forget the name of but I'm not sure.
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Oct 5, 2014 11:59
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You don't mean 8-BALL and NAILZ, or CHAINZ or what ever was it. Yeah they were pretty lovely.
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Oct 5, 2014 16:50
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The Harris Brothers(Skull and 8-Ball)?
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Oct 5, 2014 16:59
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I was at a house show a few weeks before Mania 14 at the height of AustinMania, and one of the Harris brothers walked out to no music. The guy looked JUST LIKE AUSTIN and the crowd went apeshit until they realized it wasn't him.
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Oct 5, 2014 17:47
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Here's a thought.... When the screwjob happened in-ring, how close was the PPV to going off-air at its normal time. According to various sources, the original plan was for the sharpshooter on Bret by Michaels to be reversed, leading to another set of false finishes. All of this takes time. So what happened? Did the PPV end early? Maybe there's a clue to what really happened if the time factor is looked at. Or maybe not. Just a thought.
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Oct 11, 2014 18:04
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Ghidzilla posted:Here's a thought.... The Observer posted:The cameras immediately pulled away from Hart and to Michaels. Vince screamed at Michaels to "pick the f***in belt up and get the f*** out of there." Michaels, still looking mad, was ordered to the back by Jerry Brisco who told him to hold the belt up high and get to the back. The show abruptly went off the air about four minutes early.
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Oct 12, 2014 02:13
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Hart & Hebner kissed and made up http://uproxx.com/prowrestling/2014/10/bret-hart-and-earl-hebner-made-peace-at-a-show-this-weekend/
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Oct 15, 2014 09:38
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