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Celery Jello
Mar 21, 2005


Slippery Tilde

As someone who's watched Broadchurch but not Gracepoint, the original was going for equal parts procedural drama and a more character based examination of what happens to a town when something awful like this happens to it. At least one character appears in multiple episodes without having any real direct plot bearing on the end result, but since it isn't a clockwork show, that characters purpose is as an example of that kind of person who's bound to show up (in this case, bad psychics).

So that's at least part of it; the original wasn't interested all of the time in advancing the main plot.

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A. Beaverhausen
Nov 11, 2008

by R. Guyovich


Mo0 posted:

As someone who's watched Broadchurch but not Gracepoint, the original was going for equal parts procedural drama and a more character based examination of what happens to a town when something awful like this happens to it. At least one character appears in multiple episodes without having any real direct plot bearing on the end result, but since it isn't a clockwork show, that characters purpose is as an example of that kind of person who's bound to show up (in this case, bad psychics).

So that's at least part of it; the original wasn't interested all of the time in advancing the main plot.

That's exactly what Gracepoint is doing as well. Having never seen Broadchurch though I'm really enjoying it.

Stabbey_the_Clown
Sep 21, 2002

Wanna see a demonstration of my school? It's called "Eight Leaves, One Very Big Stick"!


Taco Defender

I think maybe I'm starting to understand this show now. Maybe it's not just photocopying Broadchurch scripts because they're lazy. Maybe... maybe it's because they're trying to make a TV version of the Clue movie, and they're trying to see if they can make a second TV series that uses the exact same clues and the exact same beats and the exact same red herrings in the exact same order to try and present two scenarios where the exact same evidence fits two completely different endings.

thats my only hope at this point

Baronash
Feb 29, 2012

So what do you want to be called?


Yeah, gently caress you Fox! I didn't expect you to remake Broadchurch when you said you were doing a remake of Broadchurch.

wormil
Sep 12, 2002

Hulk will smoke you!

I wish I had waited until the series was done then just binged through the episodes.

Stabbey_the_Clown
Sep 21, 2002

Wanna see a demonstration of my school? It's called "Eight Leaves, One Very Big Stick"!


Taco Defender

JohnSherman posted:

Yeah, gently caress you Fox! I didn't expect you to remake Broadchurch when you said you were doing a remake of Broadchurch.

I expected a reMAKE, not a reRUN.

It's not the same, but Arrow took the comics and went in a slightly different direction, introducing new characters, reimagining other things to fit the live-action no super-powers world better.


***

At this point I'd like to say that Tom Miller did it. I just can't buy his lame story about going up to the mentally confused hiker's house to try and solve the murder. I think he went there to try and frame him. He had one of Danny's crossword books with him when he was found, and gave a story that he was keeping it to remember Danny by. Bullshit, he was going to plant that as evidence. (That'll probably be the explanation for his road trip even if he didn't kill Danny.)

The big flaws in the theory are that that he looks pretty suspicious right now, being caught smashing his laptop, and the killer almost certainly won't be revealed until the last episode. Tom also wasn't big enough to be the hoodied person fleeing from the murder scene at the last episode (but then again, who's to say that hoodie person is the same as the killer?).

wormil
Sep 12, 2002

Hulk will smoke you!

Watching this, I realize I'm looking for a red herring in a sea of red herrings.

Zero One
Dec 30, 2004

Z is the new C

After some things said in last week's episode and watching the preview for today, I am going to guess the ending will be exactly the same as Broadchurch.

Mr Ice Cream Glove
Apr 22, 2007
"If you put a hamburger in the toaster it'll say Happy Birthday."




Did not see that coming at all

A. Beaverhausen
Nov 11, 2008

by R. Guyovich


Yeah, totally out of left field.

Zero One
Dec 30, 2004

Z is the new C

Called it. A little disappointed it was the same.

edit: wait....

e2: gently caress.


e3: Getting some Skyler here.

Zero One fucked around with this message at 02:51 on Dec 12, 2014

Celery Jello
Mar 21, 2005


Slippery Tilde

I didn't tape it and can't watch it right now, anyone willing to put it in some giant spoiler tags so I can see what they changed, if anything at all?

A. Beaverhausen
Nov 11, 2008

by R. Guyovich


Mo0 posted:

I didn't tape it and can't watch it right now, anyone willing to put it in some giant spoiler tags so I can see what they changed, if anything at all?

ml Miller's husband had a secret relationship that almost turned sexual with danny. Her son found out by following his father and, while trying to protect danny accidently killed him. His father took the blame.

Zero One
Dec 30, 2004

Z is the new C

drat that was an intense way to end.

Cockblocktopus
Apr 18, 2009

Since the beginning of time, man has yearned to destroy the sun.



What the poo poo was that? I was pissed at them for copying the ending then confused by the twist and now I just don't know.

Did Miller kill her kid(s) or was I imagining a blood spatter in the last shot?

Celery Jello
Mar 21, 2005


Slippery Tilde

A. Beaverhausen posted:

ml Miller's husband had a secret relationship that almost turned sexual with danny. Her son found out by following his father and, while trying to protect danny accidently killed him. His father took the blame.

So they... barely changed the ending. That's disappointing.

Zero One
Dec 30, 2004

Z is the new C

FadingChord posted:

What the poo poo was that? I was pissed at them for copying the ending then confused by the twist and now I just don't know.

Did Miller kill her kid(s) or was I imagining a blood spatter in the last shot?

No, you were imagining things.


Mo0 posted:

So they... barely changed the ending. That's disappointing.

The way it was done was pretty good. Again, the show is better when it diverges.


And speaking of Broadchurch: Season 2 starts next month: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...ond-series.html

Zero One fucked around with this message at 03:12 on Dec 12, 2014

A. Beaverhausen
Nov 11, 2008

by R. Guyovich


Zero One posted:

No, you were imagining things.

But with how Miller loving looked in that final shot...you have to wonder just what happened afterwards.

Zero One
Dec 30, 2004

Z is the new C

A. Beaverhausen posted:

But with how Miller loving looked in that final shot...you have to wonder just what happened afterwards.

I'd be more worried about her doing something to Carver to protect her kids.

Cockblocktopus
Apr 18, 2009

Since the beginning of time, man has yearned to destroy the sun.



I wonder if a hypothetical season two of Gracepoint would be wildly different from the upcoming second season of Broadchurch. We'll never know, but I feel like the small change in the ending makes it impossible for Gracepoint to keep being so darn similar.

If I haven't seen Broadchurch but watched all of Gracepoint, is it still worth watching?

Zero One
Dec 30, 2004

Z is the new C

You could start watching Season 2 of Broadchurch and not have missed any of the plot points from Season 1 (except for the few differences).

That said it's pretty good (and better executed) and would be worth a watch if you liked Gracepoint and want to see the original. But don't go in expecting the story to be different.

howe_sam
Mar 7, 2013

Creepy little garbage eaters



Huh. That was...huh. I was all set to bag on Gracepoint for being a repertory theater company version of Broadchurch, but then the twist happened, but then the twist didn't matter? It also completely reshapes Ellie's character since she's willing to let an "innocent" man go to jail for a crime he didn't commit -- which isn't to say that Joe was completely innocent, just that he's not guilty of murder. It also was more explicitly redemptive for Carver, since I don't think they say he's going to get the heart procedure, and obviously the stuff with the daughter never happens. Which is why in some ways I feel Gracepoint is better positioned for a second season than Broadchurch was. Broadchurch I still don't see how they get the gang back together, with Gracepoint, or Carver at least, I can see how that would work.

All in all I'm not entirely sure Gracepoint was worth it just for the finale, but I do think it was a more interesting ending than Broadchurch, so kudos for that?

wormil
Sep 12, 2002

Hulk will smoke you!

Eight episodes of spinning wheels and red herrings to solve it in five minutes. :argh: Plus, pedophile out of nowhere.

Teek
Aug 7, 2006

I can't wait to entertain you.


wormil posted:

Eight episodes of spinning wheels and red herrings to solve it in five minutes. :argh: Plus, pedophile out of nowhere.

Just like the original series. It was out of left field there as well. I was ready to bag on the show for the re-tred, then they went and twisted it a little. It works, and it did mine some additional "ACTING!" scenes.

PowerBuilder3
Apr 21, 2010


That was the stupidest change I have ever seen in anything.

When Tom, totally by accident, whack's Danny with the oar, Joe is totally off the hook with any crime!

They just call 911 to report a horrible accident.

What were they doing up there? You see the boys wanted to go play at the cottage (snipe hunt, I don't care) so we all went up there, we were chasing each other, and WHACK oar accident.

Tom kept his mouth shut til the end, so he could have in the above scenario instead.

The original ending makes 100% more sense.

wormil
Sep 12, 2002

Hulk will smoke you!

What was the Broadchurch ending?

howe_sam
Mar 7, 2013

Creepy little garbage eaters



wormil posted:

What was the Broadchurch ending?

Joe killed Danny (strangled him I think?): The End.

wormil
Sep 12, 2002

Hulk will smoke you!

howe_sam posted:

Joe killed Danny (strangled him I think?): The End.

What was the motivation? Same: pedo?

howe_sam
Mar 7, 2013

Creepy little garbage eaters



wormil posted:

What was the motivation? Same: pedo?

Yep, exactly the same, down to the protestations that it wasn't sexual. Though I think it was more creepy?

PowerBuilder3
Apr 21, 2010


Sorry, I didn't mention that Joe strangled Danny in the original (maybe by "accident", was vague, but he was trying to get him to not blab about their "relationship").

Also I realized we got to see a "false" flashback. When Joe told his story, we saw a flashback that didn't fully happen. We saw the real flashback when Tom told his mother what happened. False flashbacks are kind-of cheating. They should have ended the flashback a split second before Danny took the dive.

Stabbey_the_Clown
Sep 21, 2002

Wanna see a demonstration of my school? It's called "Eight Leaves, One Very Big Stick"!


Taco Defender

Yep, nearly identical. On the other hand, the little that they did change in the earlier episodes provided just enough clues to make me correctly guess the killer, so at least it was slightly less out of nowhere.

Stabbey_the_Clown fucked around with this message at 21:17 on Dec 12, 2014

wormil
Sep 12, 2002

Hulk will smoke you!

It was a decent drama but a terrible mystery.

Was there a scene where the CSI said there were size 6 footprints on the beach? Or was that at the beach house. In any case I assumed the other kid was involved somehow after deleting all those messages but I didn't expect the dad.

Celery Jello
Mar 21, 2005


Slippery Tilde

See, that's at least a somewhat interesting thing, because he deleted his messages in the original series too, but it was explained as him having the perfectly believable child reaction of "They're gonna think I killed him because of the messages I sent", so to change that from a red herring to an actual clue is neat.

wormil
Sep 12, 2002

Hulk will smoke you!

And Broadchurch just went up on Netflix.

howe_sam
Mar 7, 2013

Creepy little garbage eaters



wormil posted:

It was a decent drama but a terrible mystery.

I think you can say this for Broadchurch as well. Like I said, I really do think the ending of Gracepoint is more interesting to the ending of Broadchurch, mostly because I think Chibnell's iidea of keeping the identity of the killer a secret from everybody, including the actor playing the killer, was a mistake. Broadchurch was the better overall show, though I did enjoy some of the performances in Gracepoint more. Whoever it was who played Preacher Paul was more credible as "potentially creepy" than bumbling Arthur Darvill, and I don't want to have to decide between David Bradley and Nick Nolte or Jacki Weaver and Pauline Quirk.

One thing, in retrospect, that does bother me about both iterations is that they put way way way too much weight on the power of print media. If Gracepoint really wanted to separate itself the inclusion of a Nancy Grace type would've gone a long way towards achieving that. Plus it would have felt more realistic.

A. Beaverhausen
Nov 11, 2008

by R. Guyovich


howe_sam posted:

I think you can say this for Broadchurch as well. Like I said, I really do think the ending of Gracepoint is more interesting to the ending of Broadchurch, mostly because I think Chibnell's iidea of keeping the identity of the killer a secret from everybody, including the actor playing the killer, was a mistake. Broadchurch was the better overall show, though I did enjoy some of the performances in Gracepoint more. Whoever it was who played Preacher Paul was more credible as "potentially creepy" than bumbling Arthur Darvill, and I don't want to have to decide between David Bradley and Nick Nolte or Jacki Weaver and Pauline Quirk.

One thing, in retrospect, that does bother me about both iterations is that they put way way way too much weight on the power of print media. If Gracepoint really wanted to separate itself the inclusion of a Nancy Grace type would've gone a long way towards achieving that. Plus it would have felt more realistic.

Oh poo poo, so Broadchurch did the Harper's Island thing? I gotta watch it then, it's an interesting way to approach a mystery with your actors.

Celery Jello
Mar 21, 2005


Slippery Tilde

A. Beaverhausen posted:

Oh poo poo, so Broadchurch did the Harper's Island thing? I gotta watch it then, it's an interesting way to approach a mystery with your actors.

Yeah, nobody knew who it was for most of the run, the killer got told a few days ahead of shooting, and everyone else was told over the phone the night before shooting. They were taking secrecy extremely seriously.

MD2020
May 29, 2003

she had tiny Italian boobs.
Well that's my story.


Well, I guess we now know why Joe was so hesitant to sign Vince's petition.

Craptacular!
Jul 9, 2001

Fuck the DH


howe_sam posted:

One thing, in retrospect, that does bother me about both iterations is that they put way way way too much weight on the power of print media. If Gracepoint really wanted to separate itself the inclusion of a Nancy Grace type would've gone a long way towards achieving that. Plus it would have felt more realistic.

In the UK, television news is government regulated to provide fairness, equal time, credibility, etc. You could never get away with something like Fox News, so even Murdoch's Sky News is actually watchable and capable of being informative to an extent. Consequently, newspapers, particularly big national newspapers like the Sun and Daily Mail are where all the salacious, often slanderous news is.

They never made any distinction that the San Francisco Globe wasn't supposed to just be a vague allusion to the SF Chronicle, but if they wanted to be accurate about the intent of the script then the other reporter would have been from something very similar to the National Enquirer or HuffPo.


For what it's worth, Irresponsible Journalist Woman was my guess on the killer. She was one of the first to the scene of the crime, and the old adage is that killers usually return to the scene. She was also the only character besides Crazy Red Herring Psycho Lady who was seen smoking cigarettes.

Being a British show in origin, and knowing about the Sun and it's obsession on missing women and children and "Our Maddie" and so on, I thought the moral of the show was a condemnation of the tabloid press when a reporter is responsible for a child's death and makes a sensationalist story of it, turning a town against each other. I wondered how that would play out here. They went for more of the pedophilia horror they tried to scare up all the way along instead.

EDIT: And also it was same-sex perversion because of course it was. Not like guys are a minority frequently associated with that illness. :sigh:

Craptacular! fucked around with this message at 20:23 on Dec 13, 2014

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pentyne
Nov 7, 2012
turdiak


So, another BBC adaptation dies a quiet death on American TV.

http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/12/15/gracepoint-wont-be-back-for-season-2

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