Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Locked thread
InitialDave
Jun 14, 2007

I Want To Believe.

Powershift posted:

Ya'll act like the euro BMW 1 series doesn't exist.
It's probably the car I mentioned earlier, and the reason I specified a 20k price point for a RWD hot hatch. I'm talking about something to compete in the same arena as the Fiesta ST.

Powershift posted:

The lotus talbot sunbeam was 150hp in 2900lbs.
More like 2100lbs.

Powershift posted:

For the £25,110 toyota wants for the GT-86, you can get a 120D m-sport or 125i m-sport.
Just find the extra £5k for the M135i if you're going down that path.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Devyl
Mar 27, 2005

It slices!

It dices!

It makes Julienne fries!

angryhampster posted:

Heh..in the process of black plasti-dipping a lot of the fake chrome on my '08 Maxima. Have considering doing some of the interior "wood" trim as well.

And this is where Infiniti got things right with the g35 and up. Subtle accents of brushed aluminum here and there with no overwhelming tacky chrome everywhere.

Powershift
Nov 23, 2009


InitialDave posted:

It's probably the car I mentioned earlier, and the reason I specified a 20k price point for a RWD hot hatch. I'm talking about something to compete in the same arena as the Fiesta ST.

InitialDave posted:

Just find the extra £5k for the M135i if you're going down that path.

InitialDave posted:

It's probably the car I mentioned earlier, and the reason I specified a 20k price point for a RWD hot hatch. I'm talking about something to compete in the same arena as the Fiesta ST.

InitialDave posted:

Just find the extra £5k for the M135i if you're going down that path.

Are you actually 2 posters using the same account, and sharing posts?

edit: also, the 1 series is going FWD because british assholes didn't appreciate it :argh:

Powershift fucked around with this message at 22:15 on Sep 28, 2014

InitialDave
Jun 14, 2007

I Want To Believe.

Powershift posted:

Are you actually 2 posters using the same account, and sharing posts?

edit: also, the 1 series is going FWD because british assholes didn't appreciate it :argh:
I was talking about a RWD hot hatch at about 20k. The 1 series is not this. It's a bigger, heavier car than the AE86/Lotus Sunbeam baseline that had entered the discussion.

If you bring the 1-series into it at 25k, I would go straight to 30k and get the full-fat option.

Powershift
Nov 23, 2009


Maybe renault will make a renaultsport twingo RS or cup that you still won't buy.

InitialDave
Jun 14, 2007

I Want To Believe.

Powershift posted:

Maybe renault will make a renaultsport twingo RS or cup that you still won't buy.
If it came out at the same 130-ish horsepower for 13k I don't see why it wouldn't sell. The UK has always been a good market for RenaultSport.

I'll admit it would fit the nominal bill of a RWD hot hatch, even if I was thinking of good old front engine, rear drive with my previous comments.

Though I would rapidly tire of even more inane review comparisons with the 911. Yes, it has the engine in the back. SHUT UP. Jesus.

Human Grand Prix
Jan 24, 2013

by FactsAreUseless

InitialDave posted:

It's probably the car I mentioned earlier, and the reason I specified a 20k price point for a RWD hot hatch. I'm talking about something to compete in the same arena as the Fiesta ST.

More like 2100lbs.

Just find the extra £5k for the M135i if you're going down that path.

Let me clarify I meant that the Sunbeam was probably the last RWD "economy" hot hatch. The 1 series is more of a premium higher class offering, and I think it's going FWD eventually.

heated game moment
Oct 30, 2003

Lipstick Apathy
http://m.autoblog.com/2014/09/24/sales-incentive-growth-clustered-brands-few-cuvs/?ncid=edlinkusauto00000015

Sounds like the brands without an assload of CUVs/SUVs aren't doing so well in an environment of declining fuel prices.Maybe this is the break Lincoln was looking for.

Noeland
Feb 28, 2006

Cyrezar posted:

http://m.autoblog.com/2014/09/24/sales-incentive-growth-clustered-brands-few-cuvs/?ncid=edlinkusauto00000015

Sounds like the brands without an assload of CUVs/SUVs aren't doing so well in an environment of declining fuel prices.Maybe this is the break Lincoln was looking for.

If CUV = Coupe Utility Vehicle, then it sounds like a good time for GM to release the G8ST (I can only hope).

Powershift
Nov 23, 2009


Noeland posted:

If CUV = Coupe Utility Vehicle, then it sounds like a good time for GM to release the G8ST (I can only hope).

It means crossover utility vehicle. Basically lifted hatchback or Wagon

Das Volk
Nov 19, 2002

by Cyrano4747
I personally think BMW has lost the plot with turbocharging the M cars and are going in the wrong direction. If the M4 had stuck to the NA formula, I would likely have never considered a Viper.

I'm also reading about defects in the new C7 Vettes now which tells me despite design improvements, GM still has lovely build quality.
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2014-chevrolet-corvette-stingray-coupe-z51-manual-long-term-update-review

and

http://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...en-getting.html

Viggen posted:

Didn't you just buy a Viper?

:lol::lol:

Throatwarbler
Nov 17, 2008

by vyelkin
Well anyway back to trucks that people actually buy.





quote:

'Toughnology' Concept Shows Silverado's Built-In Strength

High-strength steel body structure supports capability, reduces weight, cost

2014-09-25
DALLAS – High-strength steel makes the Chevrolet Silverado lighter, stronger and more efficient than the conventional carbon steel used in most vehicles. Those attributes are highlighted in the simulated raw steel appearance of the new Silverado Toughnology concept.

The concept is also a showcase for Silverado's connectivity technologies – including all-new OnStar 4G LTE with built-in Wi-Fi hotspot – as well as accessories and performance parts available through Chevrolet dealers.

"The technology of advanced high-strength steel makes the Chevrolet Silverado stronger, lighter, more capable and more efficient – and that's exactly what the Toughnology concept represents," said Jeff Luke, executive chief engineer. "During the Silverado's development, we evaluated all materials and chose those that would provide the best strength to support capability while still delivering a strong value to customers.

"High-strength steel had clear advantages and is a contributor to the overall package that made Silverado the 2014 North American Truck of the Year."

High-strength steel, which is pressed while still in molten form, can be up to 30 percent lighter than carbon steel with the same strength. It offers significant mass savings at a lower cost than aluminum, which helps keep down the overall vehicle cost. Lower weight translates to greater efficiency and capability for truck owners.

The 2015 Silverado 1500 with the EcotTec3 5.3L V-8 engine is EPA-estimated at 23 mpg on the highway and offers a maximum trailering capacity of 11,200 pounds, per newly adopted SAE J2807 Recommended Practices. With the available 6.2L V-8 engine and all-new eight-speed automatic transmission, the Silverado's trailering capacity increases to 12,000 pounds.

The Silverado Toughnology concept wears most of its high-strength steel under the skin, just like every production model. Approximately 67 percent of each Silverado cab is constructed of the durable material, including stronger ultra-high-strength steel. It is used in the A-pillars, B-pillars, rockers and roof rails, as well strategic sections on the interior structure. Ultra-high-strength steel is used in areas of the rocker panels and underbody to help improve performance in crashes.

The 2015 Silverado 1500 crew cab model earned a 5-Star Safety Rating – the highest rating – in government crash testing.

Lightweight strength extends to the Silverado's pickup box, where the floor is made of roll-formed steel. It's more durable than the conventional stamped steel used by other manufacturers and it's lighter than the material used for stamped parts, further reducing vehicle weight.

The Silverado also strategically uses aluminum, including the hood, which saves 17 pounds over a conventional stamped steel hood.

"We put the best materials to use where they'll do the most good," said Luke. "Every panel, inside and out, is designed to support the Silverado's capability and carry on its position as America's most dependable, longest-lasting truck."

Concept features

The Toughnology concept is striking for its stripped-down appearance. The paint job mimics the look of raw, unpainted steel and is accented with steel molecule graphics. The hood – the only visible metal exterior component that isn't steel – is painted black.

Additional black and chrome exterior accents complement the raw steel appearance, along with Chevrolet Accessory 22-inch wheels mounted on off-road tires. The special content includes:

Chevrolet Accessories grille insert
Tubular assist steps
Soft, folding tonneau cover
Washable carpet bedliner
Fender flares
Tinted headlamp lenses.

Performance capability upgrades include a performance exhaust system and upgraded performance brakes. Under the hood is a performance air intake system on its 5.3L engine rated at 355 horsepower and 383 lb-ft of torque.

Inside, the Silverado Toughnology wears LTZ trim, including heated, leather-appointed bucket seats. It also features the available rear-seat entertainment system and Silverado's latest connectivity features, including OnStar 4G LTE with built-in Wi-Fi hotspot and a wireless phone-charging mat that recharges phones via a magnetic inductive charge.

The available OnStar with 4G LTE and built-in Wi-Fi hotspot provides a mobile hub for drivers and passengers to stay connected. The hotspot is on whenever the vehicle is on and comes with a three-month/three-gigabyte data trial (whichever comes first). 4G LTE is the most current and fastest mobile data network – 10 times faster than 3G and 100 times faster than OnStar's previous generation hardware.

Founded in 1911 in Detroit, Chevrolet is now one of the world's largest car brands, doing business in more than 140 countries and selling more than 4.9 million cars and trucks a year. Chevrolet provides customers with fuel-efficient vehicles that feature spirited performance, expressive design, and high quality. More information on Chevrolet models can be found at https://www.chevrolet.com.

I feel like they are really painting themselves into a corner, marketing wise.

Fender Anarchist
May 20, 2009

Fender Anarchist

For all the taglines about how it "reduces weight" vs aluminum, I don't actually see any numbers in there for curb weight.

Throatwarbler
Nov 17, 2008

by vyelkin

Fucknag posted:

For all the taglines about how it "reduces weight" vs aluminum, I don't actually see any numbers in there for curb weight.

It doesn't say that, it says

quote:


It offers significant mass savings at a lower cost than aluminum, which helps keep down the overall vehicle cost.


I'm not sure if Ford has released official curb weights for the F-150 yet, but the previous Silverado was already ~400lbs lighter than the previous F-150, The OHV enigine alone probably saves a bunch of weight over Ford's DOHC engine, so the difference isn't as pronounced as Ford would like you to believe.

sean10mm
Jun 29, 2005

It's a Mad, Mad, Mad, MAD-2R World

Das Volk posted:

I personally think BMW has lost the plot with turbocharging the M cars and are going in the wrong direction. If the M4 had stuck to the NA formula, I would likely have never considered a Viper.

Weren't you complaining about how your old M3 had no torque and how great the Viper having torque was? And the new M3/4 has way more torque than the old M3 everywhere so...they're doing it wrong?

iwentdoodie
Apr 29, 2005

🤗YOU'RE WELCOME🤗

Throatwarbler posted:

It doesn't say that, it says


I'm not sure if Ford has released official curb weights for the F-150 yet, but the previous Silverado was already ~400lbs lighter than the previous F-150, The OHV enigine alone probably saves a bunch of weight over Ford's DOHC engine, so the difference isn't as pronounced as Ford would like you to believe.

4x2 SuperCrew 3.5L weighs in at 4475. 2014 model would've been right at 5200. And Chevy in same config with the 4.3L is 4942.

For reference, a Genesis V8 is almost 4600. And a V6 AWD Genesis is only two pounds lighter than the F150.

meatpimp
May 15, 2004

Psst -- Wanna buy

:) EVERYWHERE :)
some high-quality thread's DESTROYED!

:kheldragar:

sean10mm posted:

Weren't you complaining about how your old M3 had no torque and how great the Viper having torque was? And the new M3/4 has way more torque than the old M3 everywhere so...they're doing it wrong?

Doing it wrong for some buyers, yeah. There are huge differences between a high-strung NA motor, high-displacement/high-torque NA motor and a torque-everywhere turbo'd motor. Personally, I don't care what I'm driving as long as there's power somewhere. Other people are more picky about where and how the power comes on. Turbo cars can be highly non-linear in their response and that can be off-putting to some.

FlerpNerpin
Apr 17, 2006


meatpimp posted:

Turbo cars can be highly non-linear in their response and that can be off-putting to some.

I don't know that there is anything more linear than a BMW turbo 3.0 BUT that doesn't make you wrong, only these engines aren't they you speak of.



First image I found, no claims of 100% accuracy made

FlerpNerpin fucked around with this message at 18:52 on Sep 29, 2014

Terrible Robot
Jul 2, 2010

FRIED CHICKEN
Slippery Tilde

Spiffness posted:

I don't know that there is anything more linear than a BMW turbo 3.0 BUT that doesn't make you wrong, only these engines aren't they you speak of.



First image I found, no claims of 100% accuracy made

That's the most beautifully perfect powerband I have ever seen, good lord.

meatpimp
May 15, 2004

Psst -- Wanna buy

:) EVERYWHERE :)
some high-quality thread's DESTROYED!

:kheldragar:

Spiffness posted:

I don't know that there is anything more linear than a BMW turbo 3.0 BUT that doesn't make you wrong, only these engines aren't they you speak of.



First image I found, no claims of 100% accuracy made

Keep in mind -- dyno charts are full-throttle and don't take into account partial-throttle/mid-rpm response, which is much more common in everyday driving. Like I said, I don't care what the response is, as long as it's there... but some people are sensitive.

I also don't doubt for a second that there's a lot of residual "lol turbo lag" thoughts and associations in the marketplace as a whole. Driving a number of VW 1.8T/2.0T cars, as well as my wife's 1.5l Juke has shown me that turbo tuning has come a LONG way and I don't find it the least bit objectionable.

In fact, if I was buying, I'd take a BMW 335i with some go-fast parts over an M3. I love driving dad's, but I like the immediacy and push of a strong turbo motor. Plus there's an improvement in gas mileage.

Wistful of Dollars
Aug 25, 2009

Das Volk posted:

I personally think BMW has lost the plot with turbocharging the M cars and are going in the wrong direction. If the M4 had stuck to the NA formula, I would likely have never considered a Viper.

I'm also reading about defects in the new C7 Vettes now which tells me despite design improvements, GM still has lovely build quality.
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2014-chevrolet-corvette-stingray-coupe-z51-manual-long-term-update-review

and

http://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...en-getting.html

:lol::lol:

You two viper owners should grab some pictures driving together and be the Twin Snakes of AI.

and touch butts

Bajaha
Apr 1, 2011

BajaHAHAHA.


Spiffness posted:

I don't know that there is anything more linear than a BMW turbo 3.0 BUT that doesn't make you wrong, only these engines aren't they you speak of.



First image I found, no claims of 100% accuracy made

The torque curve isn't the non linearity he's referring to, it's the lag associated with the turbo spooling up. For a certain throttle input, transitioning from cruising to acceleration, you'll experience a non linear "roll on" for power for a constant throttle input as the turbo transitions from vacuum to whatever boost level is appropriate for that particular rpm and throttle input. Commonly referred to as "boost lag"

There are tricks to reduce this effect, twin scroll turbo, shorter intake piping, lighter and smaller turbo, sequential or twin turbo applications, variable geometry turbos, etc. But it's near impossible to completely eliminate this effect, especially on smaller high power engines.

Some simply prefer the direct feeling of NA throttle response, no lag, no nonlinear responses to throttle input. Individual throttle bodies go a long way as well for helping with throttle response, one day I'll throw a set onto something I own.

e:fb spent too much time writing this out on mobile

heated game moment
Oct 30, 2003

Lipstick Apathy

Autoblog posted:

Johan de Nysschen isn't afraid of taking quick, decisive actions, even if they are criticized. Since taking the wheel at Cadillac, he instigated moving the luxury division's base of operations to Manhattan's SoHo neighborhood and introduced a new naming scheme for the future of the brand, like he did at Infiniti. The polarizing boss recently explained his feelings about the future of Cadillac in more depth on his Facebook page, but unfortunately only his friends could read it. Thankfully, Daily Kanban posted much of the strongly worded missive for the whole world to see.

Much of the message examines the decision to move some employees to New York. De Nysschen claims that it's all about giving Cadillac distance from Detroit to reshape itself. It allows for, "No distractions. No side shows. No cross-brand corporate considerations. No homogenized lowest common denominator approach. Just pure, unadulterated, CLASS."

De Nysschen's isn't afraid of stepping on some toes to make his point, either. He claims that after announcing the move to SoHo, he received, "emails from GM retires suggesting that is the dumbest idea since the Cimmaron. I quietly wonder if any of them had a hand in creating that masterful monument to product substance."

De Nysschen also briefly takes aim at those critiquing the model naming scheme change, as well. "I do not determine strategy based on the unfiltered observations of people who do not have a 360 degree understanding of the problem," he writes.

The new boss curtly ends the message: "So, Detroit fans, I love your city, the success of Cadillac will be your success, the majority of our jobs remain in Detroit, and as we grow, these will increase too. But other than that – don't mess with me."

The current goal for Cadillac's leaders is to raise its brand perception and maybe take a step towards being the standard of the world again. After only being at the task for a few weeks, de Nysschen is certainly showing laser focus on getting the job done, no matter who gets upset at how he does it.

I get where he is coming from as far as the 'lowest common denominator' thing and I truly hope he succeeds. Mercedes has been steadily expanding downmarket with the new CLA and GLA and to be honest I've always seen them to be the true Cadillac competitor at least ideologically speaking - a brand focused purely on luxury first before any sporting pretensions. It would be great if they could produce a competitive product other than the Escalade, and the new CT6 should be an indicator of where they are headed.

Wonder how long his contract is for?

Spiffness posted:

I don't know that there is anything more linear than a BMW turbo 3.0 BUT that doesn't make you wrong, only these engines aren't they you speak of.



First image I found, no claims of 100% accuracy made

Is that the new M4 engine? Jesus Christ. I do agree with DV though that the NA engines are where it's at. I realize that on paper the forced induction engines are superior but it seems like all the Germans are going for turbocharged V8s now. In my opinion they should stick the massively powerful twin turbo V8s into the M-lines (make an M550i) and leave the more hardcore M cars lighter and naturally aspirated. They are turning into AMG except AMG hasn't started playing engine noises over the stereo as far as I know.

BrokenKnucklez
Apr 22, 2008

by zen death robot
Honestly, I have no desire to own a BMW any newer than an E60/E90.

BMW still makes a pretty nice car, but they have really killed the "drivers car" aspect and just become another luxury car. Maybe I am just becoming less impressed with their offerings, or I have shifted my focus in what kind of cars I like.

Human Grand Prix
Jan 24, 2013

by FactsAreUseless
Ideally, all cars should be exactly like the 1989 Nissan Skyline GT-R.

rscott
Dec 10, 2009
I have no desire to own a BMW newer than an E34

Human Grand Prix
Jan 24, 2013

by FactsAreUseless
I have no desire to own a BMW newer than an E28.

BrokenKnucklez
Apr 22, 2008

by zen death robot
The E39 was pretty much the best looking sedan (in my opinion) that BMW has ever made. Plus the 540i gives killer performance with out the M tax.

Tony quidprano
Jan 19, 2014



BrokenKnucklez posted:

Honestly, I have no desire to own a BMW any newer than an E60/E90.

BMW still makes a pretty nice car, but they have really killed the "drivers car" aspect and just become another luxury car. Maybe I am just becoming less impressed with their offerings, or I have shifted my focus in what kind of cars I like.

I always chalked it up to tastes changing. The average person couldn't tell you if their car was FWD or RWD, BMW probably correctly guessed that they were wasting their time making a drivers car.

rscott
Dec 10, 2009
E34s have a clamshell hood and E39s do not, ergo E34s are the better car :colbert:

e: this is kind of unrelated but a friend of mine showed me a trick where he undid the gas shock to my hood and them opened it up to 90* and there was a ton of room to work on poo poo, it's the simple stupid things that make me go :aaa:

Powershift
Nov 23, 2009


E39s have a reliable V8 and E34s do not.ergo, E39s are the better car.

The direction the hood opens is irrelevant if you never have to open it :smug:

rscott
Dec 10, 2009
can't be thaaaat hard to swap a M62 into a E34 540i

Left Ventricle
Feb 24, 2006

Right aorta

Throatwarbler posted:

Here's what Buick needs to do.
Basically you're saying:
-Rebadge the Equinox, again (Terrain)
-Rebadge a European station wagon, even though Americans hate wagons now, with a name that, historically, has not been associated with a wagon body style (Regal)
-Rebadge an AUS car, which has been done twice already (SS, G8)
-Rebagde a tiny European cabriolet which won't perform well or get good fuel economy because of the added weight
-Keep the rebadged Cruze and Trax
-Don't rebadge a RWD performance car

Do I have that right? You're more or less saying that New GM should continue doing some of the same things Old GM did that led it to ruin.

Reminder: GM spread the GMT360 platform across SEVEN brands!
-Chevrolet Trailblazer (and SSR)
-GMC Envoy
-Isuzu Ascender
-Saab 9-7X
-Oldsmobile Bravada
-Buick Rainier
-Hummer H3

The only differentiation I can think of between all those trucks is that the Saab had the ignition switch on the console, the Envoy had that convertible cargo area roof, and the H3 tried its damnedest to look like a 3/4 scale H2 and had the 5 cylinder from the Colorado which made it a punk in the performance department.

GMC is still around because of brand recognition. People still believe GMC is not just Chevy trucks with different body panels. This is despite the fact that, back in the 80s and 90s, Chevy and GMC even shared a truck nameplate (Suburban) with little to no alterations! But it sells, so keep it.

Don't get me wrong. GM has made huge leaps in the quality department, by pulling their heads out of their collective rear end and learning how to properly put a car together from their EU arm. They've certainly come a long way from the Citation and Cavalier. But the last thing they need to do is more rebadging. The XTS is a prime example. They're trying to make it a bit different with the V, which has the turbo 3.6 with 400 goddamn horsepower and four wheel drive, but it's still on a pedestrian front-drive platform. Cadillac has always been about leading the company in styling and technology, and that seems like a step backward.

Powershift
Nov 23, 2009


With the popularity of hot hatches, the euro market being in the shitter and Nissan's relationship with Renault, it's disappointing they haven't rebadged the renaultsport megane or clio and brought them to north america. Or at the very least done something with the zoomy bits.

They should also make the 370z, or at least the next z car less lovely. they're selling 1/4 of the 370s as they did 350s in the US at this point.

MrChips
Jun 10, 2005

FLIGHT SAFETY TIP: Fatties out first

1500quidporsche posted:

I always chalked it up to tastes changing. The average person couldn't tell you if their car was FWD or RWD, BMW probably correctly guessed that they were wasting their time making a drivers car.

I've said it a bajillion times already, but I think BMW needs a special high-price, luxury version of their cars, priced above the respective M-cars in each series. This way, the status-seekers don't end up in an M-car (which has been perennially the highest-priced version of their model lineups), then complain incessantly about how loud it is, how hard it rides, how poor the fuel economy is, etc, which in turn pretty much guarantees that subsequent M-cars are softer and cushier than their predecessors. Even though they are a performance brand after a fashion, maybe BMW should re-position Alpina to take up this niche? They can still build what they're used to building, but with a lot more opulence throughout.

If I was running the shop at BMW, that would be one of many, many changes I would make.

randomidiot
May 12, 2006

by Fluffdaddy

(and can't post for 11 years!)

Left Ventricle posted:

-Rebadge an AUS car, which has been done twice already (SS, G8)

At least five in recent history.

The last Pontiac GTO was a Holden Monaro with left hand drive, an LSx, and different badging + grill.

The current Camaro platform is actually an Australian-designed platform (GM Zeta), and is related to the SS and G8. Except the Camaro is the only one of the above that's built in the US.

There's also the new Caprice police car, which AFAIK is built in Australia (and also based on the Zeta platform).

randomidiot fucked around with this message at 04:39 on Sep 30, 2014

Powershift
Nov 23, 2009


The crowd that bought those harsh M-cars new is old now and wants something softer.

There is no younger crowd coming in to replace them. The younger crowd is more concerned with job security, student loan debt, and the enviroment.

All that young person M money is going to loan payments, savings accounts, and teslas, which means BMWs problem isn't that the m-cars are getting softer, it's that the i3 is a goofy loving clown car, and not a mini i8.

Throatwarbler
Nov 17, 2008

by vyelkin

Left Ventricle posted:

Basically you're saying:
-Rebadge the Equinox, again (Terrain)
-Rebadge a European station wagon, even though Americans hate wagons now, with a name that, historically, has not been associated with a wagon body style (Regal)
-Rebadge an AUS car, which has been done twice already (SS, G8)
-Rebagde a tiny European cabriolet which won't perform well or get good fuel economy because of the added weight
-Keep the rebadged Cruze and Trax
-Don't rebadge a RWD performance car


The Envision is not a rebadged Equinox, it's based on the new European/Other World midsize SUV platform that will also underpin a new Opel Antara. Since the Equinox/Terrain are getting fairly old they will be replaced at some point, possibly with another vehicle based on the same platform as the Envision, but possibly not. We don't know yet. The ENvision already exists and is already coming, so it's sort of a moot point now but it's the right car for the market presently.

Das Volk
Nov 19, 2002

by Cyrano4747

sean10mm posted:

Weren't you complaining about how your old M3 had no torque and how great the Viper having torque was? And the new M3/4 has way more torque than the old M3 everywhere so...they're doing it wrong?

R> C> P

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Throatwarbler
Nov 17, 2008

by vyelkin

Left Ventricle posted:


-Rebadge a European station wagon, even though Americans hate wagons now, with a name that, historically, has not been associated with a wagon body style (Regal)
-Rebadge an AUS car, which has been done twice already (SS, G8)
-Rebagde a tiny European cabriolet which won't perform well or get good fuel economy because of the added weight
-Keep the rebadged Cruze and Trax
-Don't rebadge a RWD performance car


- The wagon already exists, all the engineering has been done and the incremental cost to bring it over(Keep building them in Germany) isn't that much in the big scheme, it's a niche product but it can be profitable.Other car companies can take a page from BMW when it comes to niche products like manual transmissions or wagons. It's not a big market but they are your best customers.
- Again, all this still already exists.
- Thrice more, it already exists, make it stylish and it will sell, lots of people want a convertible and don't want a Corvette or Camaro. The old Sebring cab sold well, this can too.
- The Verano isn't an ideal product for the US market, better for China, but it's getting to the end of its life soo and will be replaced by something that will be on a shared platform with the Envision. The Encore, well, I don't like the idea personally but tiny SUVs are all the rage right now. MB/Audi/BMW all have them, SUbaru has one and Honda will soon as well. Don't price the Buick version too low and it's fine.
- Buick doesn't need a Z28 because it's not part of the brand identity. They *could* use a twin turbo Enclave though.

Left Ventricle posted:

Do I have that right? You're more or less saying that New GM should continue doing some of the same things Old GM did that led it to ruin.

Reminder: GM spread the GMT360 platform across SEVEN brands!
-Chevrolet Trailblazer (and SSR)
-GMC Envoy
-Isuzu Ascender
-Saab 9-7X
-Oldsmobile Bravada
-Buick Rainier
-Hummer H3

The only differentiation I can think of between all those trucks is that the Saab had the ignition switch on the console, the Envoy had that convertible cargo area roof, and the H3 tried its damnedest to look like a 3/4 scale H2 and had the 5 cylinder from the Colorado which made it a punk in the performance department.

GMC is still around because of brand recognition. People still believe GMC is not just Chevy trucks with different body panels. This is despite the fact that, back in the 80s and 90s, Chevy and GMC even shared a truck nameplate (Suburban) with little to no alterations! But it sells, so keep it.

Don't get me wrong. GM has made huge leaps in the quality department, by pulling their heads out of their collective rear end and learning how to properly put a car together from their EU arm. They've certainly come a long way from the Citation and Cavalier. But the last thing they need to do is more rebadging. The XTS is a prime example. They're trying to make it a bit different with the V, which has the turbo 3.6 with 400 goddamn horsepower and four wheel drive, but it's still on a pedestrian front-drive platform. Cadillac has always been about leading the company in styling and technology, and that seems like a step backward.

So I guess it's a good thing that the GMT360 and half those brands are dead then? The GMT 360 was the right product at the right time as well and made a boatload of money.

The XTS is really a Chinese market play above everything else. Any incremental sales they get elsewhere is just gravy.

Throatwarbler fucked around with this message at 08:33 on Sep 30, 2014

  • Locked thread