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It seems like discussion of the many car brands/companies is taking place in several threads across AI, I thought maybe it would be good to have its own dedicated thread. Common themes and perceptions include: Toyota has lost its way Mazda is the new Honda Honda is the new Toyota GM makes trucks out of steel and raw heterosexuality Lincoln: what the gently caress. Or as my sister put it, does Matthew McConaughey know he's driving a Lincoln? This has an American perspective because that's where I am from, and also because it's the best country in the god drat world.  I'd like to begin by discussing some of the brands that I think have huge potential that is being criminally under-utilized: Cadillac recently hired Johan de Nysschen away from Infiniti. During Mr. Nysschen's approximately 2 year tenure at Infiniti, he turned the company from a near-luxury also-ran into a world-class aspirational brand by replacing all the model prefixes with the letter Q, moving the headquarters to Hong Kong, and paying Sebastian Vettel an rear end-load of money to associate his name with some pretty hideous vehicles. http://www.infinitiusa.com/now/future-vehicles/infiniti-fx-sebastian-vettel-version.html Infiniti, as you may know, is owned by Nissan and for much of its history has been rebadged, slightly nicer versions of Nissan products (see: Acura). However, Infiniti has had several models which set it apart from the mainstream lineup, particularly the RWD Q45, M35/45, and the G35 sedan and coupe. The Q45 has long since been discontinued, the M is still around as a Q-something and the G35 became the G37 became the Q-something else. I refuse to look it up. They also have a monstrous SUV called the Q56 based on the Armada that looks somewhat like a bloated Escalade crossed with a catfish. Should Infiniti approach me offering vast sums of money, the first thing I would do is get rid of the Q-nomenclature except for the SUVs. I feel like the G at least had decent brand equity and they have always been good looking cars. They had a system that worked as far as G/M/Q and displacement. It immediately tells you almost everything you need to know about the car, no need to complicate it. Second, I would put the VR38DETT in various states of tune into almost everything. Low-displacement turbocharged motors in performance vehicles are all the rage now and this would give Nissan a chance to recoup some of its development costs and work towards a reliable mass-produced motor. Infiniti has already stuffed this engine into at least one concept sedan so they may be heading this direction already. This would give the brand a high-profit margin performance halo model in several classes, and would sell itself as the 'GTR-engine' much like describing a vehicle as having the 'Corvette engine' does. I know there is an "IPL" which first of all is a lame-rear end nomenclature for a performance brand (here's looking at you Lexus "f") and second of all currently only has one model, the vehicle-formerly-known-as-G37 IPL which stickers for about $50,000 and has about 15 horsepower and a body kit over the regular version. Weak. Cadillac observed Infiniti's record-breaking sales and profit growth and immediately thought 'how can we copy the Japanese who are copying the Germans?' Which, come to think of it, is probably not the worst way to go about things. Just like at Infiniti, Mr. Nysschen has already moved the headquarters of Cadillac from Detroit to New York City and decided to name the new Cadillac flagship sedan the CT6. Now, personally I feel this is an issue. Cadillac is probably currently best known to most Americans as the brand behind the Escalade, that most American of vehicles and a massively profitable truck for GM. Other models include the ATS and CTS, which are respectable vehicles for when you want a flashy car but think BMWs are too much car for the money and Mercedes hold their value too well. They also make the XTS, which the company has publicly stated is a stopgap vehicle until they can make something respectable and which caters to the demographic who wants a $75,000 Impala. Just to be sure to offer an overpriced car in every segment they also make the ELR, which is an $80,000 rebadged Chevy Volt. Needless to say these have not exactly been flying off the dealership lots and other than the Escalade which just came out with a full redesign for the 2015 model year and is back-ordered for weeks, sales are down. The thing that gets me about Cadillac is that there is so much potential there, and GM in other areas has been capturing that potential well. For example, the new Camaro has been a sales success and resurrected a famous name with retro design cues in a modern interpretation. The Corvette Stingray is another great example. Now, I don't mean 'retro' as in Chevy SSR or Chrysler PT Cruiser retro, but Cadillac is over 100 years old. You have a lot of inspiration to choose from. Instead, they seem to be dead-set on trying to create a domestic 3-series and 5-series. Mr. Nysschen has also stated that he is going to keep Cadillac pricing high and that sales volume is expected to continue to decline as he doesn't want the brand to have the 'discount luxury' image but instead go toe-to-toe with the Mercedes S-class. Good luck with that. The CT6 could very well end up being a badass car, but it needs a better name. You know, like DeVille, or Eldorado, or Escalade Sedan, or Catera. Most people probably couldn't pronounce Calais so that's right out, and we also don't appreciate being forced to do math so when you make an American luxury car keep it simple and give it an actual name instead of a model number. The new CTS is a handsome vehicle, and so is the ATS, but its fairly obvious that they are trying extremely hard to be European. That's simply not what Cadillac is about. Someone do Lincoln, I recommend a Mustang chassis 3.5L Ecoboost GT called the Zephyr with at least 400 horsepower and 460lb/ft of torque from 2000 RPM.
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Sep 26, 2014 13:14
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Hyundai's slogan is "Defy, design, delight." They've been working hard the past few years to defy their image of boring, basic commuter car. They hired Peter Schreyer from VAG in 2006 to be their lead designer, and he is now one of the presidents of the Hyundai Motor Company. They made major strides forward into turning their brand's emphasis from cost effectiveness to design, research, and development. The release of the Genesis coupe and sedan were major turning points for the company. The brand which was once known for economy cars is now turning out a RWD sports car and a luxury sedan. 2011 was another major turning point for the company, when they released newly redesigned Sonata and Elantra. They received major props for making their cars look less embarrassing to drive. The rest of the brand lineup has undergone major changes to suit the new image. I really like how far they've come in such a short time, and I'm excited to see where they go. They are currently developing better hybrid technology, electric vehicles, hydrogen-powered vehicles, as well as exploring other alternative fuels. Hyundai is thinking toward the future and will only continue to grow in the coming years.
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Sep 26, 2014 15:24
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Is Schreyer the guy from Audi who designed the Optima? Because that's a really good looking car.
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Sep 26, 2014 16:11
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Cyrezar posted:Is Schreyer the guy from Audi who designed the Optima? Because that's a really good looking car. That's the one.
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Sep 26, 2014 16:13
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Just curious, how exactly has Toyota lost its way? Is it because they mostly make commuter cars and nothing exciting?
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Sep 26, 2014 16:26
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mariooncrack posted:Just curious, how exactly has Toyota lost its way? Is it because they mostly make commuter cars and nothing exciting? Diminishing quality and value compared to its models from 10-20 years ago. goatse guy posted:Hyundai's slogan is "Defy, design, delight." They've been working hard the past few years to defy their image of boring, basic commuter car. They hired Peter Schreyer from VAG in 2006 to be their lead designer, and he is now one of the presidents of the Hyundai Motor Company. They made major strides forward into turning their brand's emphasis from cost effectiveness to design, research, and development. I've really enjoyed watching Hyundai turn things around in the last 5-10 years. Their entire lineup is great. My wife and I seriously considered an Elantra for a while to replace our 2-door Focus with. In the end we decided we preferred not to have a payment.
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Sep 26, 2014 16:32
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I'm not sure if I agree with people when they say that about Toyota. My understanding is that some think they let their quality slip because they got too comfortable. Did this actually happen though, or is it a consequence of the bad press from the unintended acceleration debacle? See also: GM. This was being discussed in the news thread but I felt it would just be better to have a dedicated thread for it. Edit: they do make some boring poo poo though. heated game moment fucked around with this message at 16:36 on Sep 26, 2014 |
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Sep 26, 2014 16:33
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I don't understand why Buick is still around. Why does GM need two luxury brands?
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Sep 26, 2014 16:40
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I've sat in a couple new Toyotas recently and I'm struck by how cheap their interior plastics feel. Buttons on the center console that feel loosely attached and rattley, knobs for the HVAC that wouldn't be out of place on a child's pretend oven. I'm in constant fear that I'm going to accidentally break something when I'm in them. I don't get these impressions and feelings at all from my 15 year old Corolla or 28 year old Celica. There has definitely been a drop-off in Toyota's quality and attention to detail in the last decade or so.
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Sep 26, 2014 16:42
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DrPain posted:I don't understand why Buick is still around. Why does GM need two luxury brands? Buick is the most popular foreign marque in China, and they keep it around here for people who want an upscale GM product but don't like Caddy's brand image.
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Sep 26, 2014 17:13
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Tommychu posted:Buick is the most popular foreign marque in China, and they keep it around here for people who want an upscale GM product but don't like Caddy's brand image. What confuses me are the seemingly standard brembo brakes on some of the models straight off the showroom floor. 
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Sep 26, 2014 18:01
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How is the Buick Regal (Opel / Vauxhall Insignia) being received in the US? I had a facelift Insignia hire car recently and was really impressed, and I've always been quite underwhelmed by Vauxhall products. The only disappointing this was the horrible 1.8 petrol, which had no torque down low, no power in the midrange.... and no power at the top end, but the U.S. doesn't get that one.
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Sep 26, 2014 20:46
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The only late-model Buick I see with any regularity is the Enclave crossover. Buick is a strange brand to me...like I get why they kept it simply because of China but I don't see what the point of the brand is in the US. They used to have the 65+ demographic then Lexus ate their lunch. I have literally never known someone who owned a Buick other than a hand-me-down or expressed the slightest interest in buying one. I mean their whole advertising campaign right now is about how people don't recognize the car they are looking at is a Buick. They have to fool people into looking at the cars, not that they are necessarily terrible. heated game moment fucked around with this message at 22:18 on Sep 26, 2014 |
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Sep 26, 2014 22:15
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They are trying really hard to appeal to the younger crowd. And sadly, its failing. I don't see any of my friends actively ever shopping Buick. They could have killed Buick stateside and left Pontiac as the performance brand.
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Sep 26, 2014 22:54
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Ugh, in the new Buick commercial (Valet goes looking for a Buick, can't find it) they even use a boring silver color that blends in the with the rest of the parking lot. Seriously, even after they show the new lineup, there's only one that is not in grey-scale. Wouldn't hurt to show some more exciting colors, especially if they're trying to appeal to a younger crowd.
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Sep 26, 2014 23:17
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Motor trend had it in a video about Detroit and the guy driving it was really impressed. Give the Camaro a face lift and call it the new Grand National.
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Sep 26, 2014 23:32
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thebigcow posted:Motor trend had it in a video about Detroit and the guy driving it was really impressed. And a turbo.
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Sep 26, 2014 23:43
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thebigcow posted:Motor trend had it in a video about Detroit and the guy driving it was really impressed. I was going to say "and put it on a diet" but then I realized that the GN is a G-body, which is a mid-size; the Camaro is a compact. So they'd have to... make the Camaro bigger? Never thought I'd say that.
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Sep 26, 2014 23:44
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thebigcow posted:Motor trend had it in a video about Detroit and the guy driving it was really impressed. The rumor was giving the ATS a face lift and callng it the grand national, then sticking the 3.6 twin turbo v6 from the CTS v-sport in it and calling that the GNX. "younger crowd" in car marketing terms is 40-55 year olds. The under 30 crowd has been almost completely written off.
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Sep 26, 2014 23:47
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Bajaha posted:Ugh, in the new Buick commercial (Valet goes looking for a Buick, can't find it) they even use a boring silver color that blends in the with the rest of the parking lot. Seriously, even after they show the new lineup, there's only one that is not in grey-scale. Wouldn't hurt to show some more exciting colors, especially if they're trying to appeal to a younger crowd. Ah, but that's the key. They're not trying to appeal to a younger crowd, they want the retirement community crowd to think young people want these cars so by buying them, they'll be youthful! It'd be hard marketing an authentic 'youthful' car but it might look something like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8UtRNCztVI
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Sep 27, 2014 00:03
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I see my fair share of Regals. Before the GM recalls, my dad and I were looking at getting one. I mean they look nice and drive relatively well but I think they're overpriced for what they are and lose their value too quickly. I've seen 2011s and 2012s around $21k. I much preferred a Mazda 6 which costs considerably less.
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Sep 27, 2014 00:14
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The under 30 crowd can't afford a brand new go fast car so why would any car company cater to that group?
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Sep 27, 2014 00:25
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I remember hearing/reading that Buick is supposed to become GM's luxury performance brand.
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Sep 27, 2014 02:04
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Cyrezar posted:I'm not sure if I agree with people when they say that about Toyota. My understanding is that some think they let their quality slip because they got too comfortable. Did this actually happen though, or is it a consequence of the bad press from the unintended acceleration debacle? See also: GM. This was being discussed in the news thread but I felt it would just be better to have a dedicated thread for it. Look at any toyota made in the past decade versus the ones in the 80s and 90s and it becomes pretty clear that the quality got lost somewhere down the line. By mid 00s the toyota interiors were garbage. By all accounts their engines were still great but it just became clear that they started cutting corners. That's not to say it was just them, its near impossible to find anything made in the early to mid 00s that had decent interior build quality and wasn't a luxury brand. The problem was Toyota used to be built solid and so when they cut corners just like everyone else the reason to buy them sort of went away and they rightfully attract criticism.
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Sep 27, 2014 02:24
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mariooncrack posted:Just curious, how exactly has Toyota lost its way? Is it because they mostly make commuter cars and nothing exciting? Again just anecdotal evidence but I've owned a 95, 05, and driven around in/rode in a 2010 Corolla a bit and the things have definitely slid downhill in terms of fit and finish. The interiors do feel cheap and rattly but even if you look past that the 2010 I drove around had a small litany of interior design decision gently caress ups. Who puts the clock down by the shifter? Or that storage compartment that'll be partially blocked when the shifter is in park? Nice position for that auxiliary input jack too where it could get hit and damage it or the cable. If I recall even the door cupholders were obnoxious in that they just didn't work well for holding a cup or a bottle. Take all that and make it rattle like a maraca taped to a slug having a seizure and you're sort of left wondering how anyone can buy one of these in the face of what Ford, Mazda, or Hyundai are offering for similar prices. But I dunno about the mid or full size areas, maybe everything there is still sunshine for Toyota?
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Sep 27, 2014 06:23
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but but but RELIABILITY! No, seriously. people are loving stupid and can't think for theirselves. one of the numerous shops I worked in LOVED toyota products. why? because they broke just like everything else and the owners paid to have them fixed every damned time because of a bad rear end marketing strategy. I've owned 10 or so toyotas of old. They were drat fine machines. You couldn't pay me to take something built in the past 15 years. On the contrary though. JLR (jaguar land rover) has made a complete and total 180* turn from the lovely crap they produced 15 years ago. who'da thunkit that it'd take an indian company to make a british company build something actually worth a poo poo.
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Sep 27, 2014 06:30
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Raluek posted:I was going to say "and put it on a diet" but then I realized that the GN is a G-body, which is a mid-size; the Camaro is a compact. So they'd have to... make the Camaro bigger? Never thought I'd say that. I'm pretty sure I could fit my entire GM compact car into a Camaro, disassembled, with spare parts for everything. The Camaro is loving massive (as is the Mustang), how the gently caress is that considered a compact?  1500quidporsche posted:Look at any toyota made in the past decade versus the ones in the 80s and 90s and it becomes pretty clear that the quality got lost somewhere down the line. By mid 00s the toyota interiors were garbage. By all accounts their engines were still great but it just became clear that they started cutting corners. That's not to say it was just them, its near impossible to find anything made in the early to mid 00s that had decent interior build quality and wasn't a luxury brand. The problem was Toyota used to be built solid and so when they cut corners just like everyone else the reason to buy them sort of went away and they rightfully attract criticism. Agreed. Mom has an 03 Avalon, and the drivetrain is still like the day it rolled off of the lot - but the interior is garbage. It's nowhere near as bad as the car she traded in (late 90s Olds Intrigue 3.8 - by 30k the door skins were falling apart, and the window switches were taped in place), but the interior has definitely seen better days (leather is cracking, plenty of rattles, some trim panels fall off if you look at them funny). It runs and drives like it's new, aside from pissing oil everywhere. I blame the oil more on the dealer that did the timing belt, pretty sure they skipped replacing the cam and crank seals. It has almost 140k on it, so some rattles are expected, but the leaks are pretty bad on it. It has the 1MZ-FE, which is drat near bulletproof. The Intrigue had no problem roasting the tires, got better mileage overall, and IMO handled a bit better... but in the 3 years she owned it, it spent more time in the shop than the Toyota has since she bought it 12 years ago (2003 model year, purchased in late 2002). The Toyota's only issues are oil leaks and an appetite for batteries (the alternator has had issues for a long time, can't afford replacing it anytime soon). randomidiot fucked around with this message at 06:56 on Sep 27, 2014 |
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Sep 27, 2014 06:52
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some texas redneck posted:I'm pretty sure I could fit my entire GM compact car into a Camaro, disassembled, with spare parts for everything. The Camaro is loving massive (as is the Mustang), how the gently caress is that considered a compact? That's what makes it a pony car, by definition. A muscle car is a mid-size with the big engine (which is usually reserved for the full-size), and a pony car is a compact with a bigger engine (doesn't have to be the biggest, 289 Mustangs are pretty cool, but bigger than compacts usually get). The Mustang shares a lot with the Falcon (a compact), and the Camaro shares a lot with the Nova (a compact). Makes you wonder about the Challenger, though.
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Sep 27, 2014 07:04
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The Challenger is bigger than a lot of full size cars.  Or at least looks bigger.I see your point, though the footprint of the Mustang and Camaro are still around that of a full size, they just have a lot less usable room due to the styling. And we haven't seen the Falcon or Nova in decades - the last Nova we saw was a rebadged Toyota Corolla in the early 80s (subcompact IIRC), and I don't think we've seen the Falcon since 1970 (obviously speaking from the US anyway, I know the Falcon name was alive and well in Australia for a lot longer). The last "real" Chevy Nova I saw was a late 70s, and it had more than enough room in the back seat for an orgy. And not nearly enough HP to drag said orgy around. Funny how perceptions of midsize, compact, etc change over time. The smallest cars being sold in the US right now make a 1984 Chevy Nova look absolutely tiny.
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Sep 27, 2014 07:19
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The real answer is that regardless of exterior dimensions, cars are classified based on interior volume; sit in a Camaro and know enlightenment. Also the Bugatti Veyron is considered a subcompact because of this. 
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Sep 27, 2014 07:51
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Yeah I was mainly talking about where they started. I think the class definitions have gotten a bit fuzzy lately; the Buick Regal is still being made (it's a mid-size and used to be a G-body) and it's within an inch as long as the Camaro. The Camaro is actually 0.2" longer. Honestly I'm not really a fan of either the new Camaro or Challenger; they seem way way too big to be a "pony" car. That said, the new Camaro is still smaller than a '68-'72 Chevelle, which was a mid-size. So I guess they're still smaller than a mid-size, which makes them compact? Works for me. It's only ~3 inches (in every direction) larger than a 1969 Camaro. Just looks like poo poo 'cause the body is all puffed up. E: Fucknag posted:The real answer is that regardless of exterior dimensions, cars are classified based on interior volume; sit in a Camaro and know enlightenment. 
Raluek fucked around with this message at 08:04 on Sep 27, 2014 |
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Sep 27, 2014 08:01
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Mazda is and has always been the best. 
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Sep 27, 2014 08:01
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cursedshitbox posted:but but but RELIABILITY! I do miss the old Camry's. They are literally the cockroaches of the earth and will still be around long after we are dead unless the rust gets them. Toyota used to be very innovative and made some pretty cool poo poo like the Supra, the Lexus LS400 (how many don't have over 200k miles with no issues) and the Camry? Now every thing just sucks. Styling is blah, the engines are stale. Blech.
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Sep 27, 2014 09:28
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Cyrezar posted:
The truck that was formerly known as the QX56 (now it's the QX80 or some poo poo) is actually in the current generation unrelated to the Armada/Titan, it's actually based on the Nissan Patrol, which is Nissan's Land Cruiser competitor in other markets. By all accounts it's VERY nice inside, has a load of killer tech like cross linked dampers instead of a roll bar, and priced very reasonably - starts at $62k with lots of equipment, while the Toyota Land Cruiser starts at $80k and the LX570 starts at over $100k. Cyrezar posted:The only late-model Buick I see with any regularity is the Enclave crossover. Look at those sales figures I posted in the other thread. You don't see the point of a brand that outsells Acura, Infiniti and Audi every year, with vehicles at similar price points and large numbers of very high margin SUVs? Buick's only problem is that they are not getting *enough* product, and your problem is that you need more friends.  Here's what Buick needs to do. - Bring over the Envision more quickly than they are doing right now. - Bring over a Regal wagon, this vehicle already exists in the form of the Insignia wagon in Europe and would cost nothing and bring at least some traffic to the showrooms even if it doesn't sell in huge numbers. Build it in Germany, so internet wagon afficianados can be smug about it. - For the love of god bring over a full size RWD V8 flagship i.e. the Chevy SS. Again this car already exists in other markets and would cost nothing to bring to market. It doesn't need to be a full-on performance car, Cadillac can build the performance car, it just needs to compete with the Lexus LS, Infiniti M, and Hyundai Equus. Again it probably won't sell in massive numbers but will bring a lot of credibility to the brand and little cost. How does the money for a Chevy SS exist but not for a Buick flagship? Who here even remembers the Chevy SS exists? Keep making them in Australia to keep Holden gainfully employed until Australia's resource curse passes. Either LeSabre or Park Avenue would be acceptable names for this car. - Bring the Opel Cascada. Old people like convertibles without performance aspirations. - I don't think cars like the Verano or Encore are vital to the brand but they already exist so I guess they can stay, but prority needs to focus on the Enclave, Envision and Regal. - I don't believe there is any need for a Buick Camaro or ATS/CTS. They don't fit with the image of the brand. If there is a vehicle that needs a performance variant it should be the Enclave or Envision. Throw the twin turbo V6 from the XTS into the Enclave for an Enclave Turbo, don't charge *too much* for it and it should be a nice earner. It doesn't need to beat the Cayenne or X5M, but there's a healthy market of people who are willing to drop a bit more money for a comfy cruiser with effortless passing capability without the attention that a Cayenne or Range Rover Supercharged would bring. EDIT: Also, currently the Chinese market Buicks all have the old emblem with red, white and blue shields. US market models are all silver. Are colored emblems that much more expensive? Maybe GM needs to stop being ashamed of America and use the red, white and blue badges in America too. Since you asked, here's what Lincoln should do. - Redo the rear end of the Navigator. I realize it just came out but the stupid rear end ruins the entire car and would probably turn off a lot of buyers on its own. Make the tail lights more expressive, give it actual exhausts instead of that silly noodle that looks like som ekind of early 90s economy car. This is galling because the Navigator on paper is a superior vehicle to the Escalade in every metric. It has more towing, the TTV6 gets better fuel economy, it has IRS, which in turn mean fold flat seats and substantially better interior capacity, by all rights it should have been a winner but they got to the rear end and just gave up. I know that there is a new F150 coming out, The Navigator customer doesn't care about that and quite frankly would probably be the kind of person who would prefer sticking with steel. Also sell this thing in China. Also give it cooled second row seats because no one else seems to offer this and the German companies seem to all suck at cooled seats, possibly because Germany isn't a very hot country. - When the MKX comes out give it the 2.7l turbo engine. There not it's not a rebadged Ford. - The next MKT should be based on the Explorer platform. 2.7l turbo base engine. 3.5l turbo upgrade engine. The MKZ is fine for what it is, just focus on making them properly, the MKS can stay a rebadged Taurus, and update when the Taurus does, at this point the sedans just aren't important enough to warrant much attention, all resources need to go 100% to the SUVs with the Navigator at the top of the list. There is no point in having a 3 series competitor or a Linoln Mustang when the Navigator and MKX aren't already topping the sales charts. Throatwarbler fucked around with this message at 11:02 on Sep 27, 2014 |
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Sep 27, 2014 10:27
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Raluek posted:That's what makes it a pony car, by definition. A muscle car is a mid-size with the big engine (which is usually reserved for the full-size), and a pony car is a compact with a bigger engine (doesn't have to be the biggest, 289 Mustangs are pretty cool, but bigger than compacts usually get). The Challenger has and always will be a GT car. The first gen even had a longer wheelbase than the 'Cuda
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Sep 27, 2014 11:57
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Throatwarbler posted:The MKZ is fine for what it is, just focus on making them properly, the MKS can stay a rebadged Taurus, and update when the Taurus does, at this point the sedans just aren't important enough to warrant much attention, all resources need to go 100% to the SUVs with the Navigator at the top of the list. There is no point in having a 3 series competitor or a Linoln Mustang when the Navigator and MKX aren't already topping the sales charts. Given the profit margins involved I agree that focusing on the SUV is the single most important thing for them to do. GM is just killing it with the full-size SUVs. I definitely don't think they need to go down the Cadillac road of trying to have a BMW competitor but they should have some kind of unique vehicle. Lincoln is another example of a brand that is better suited by bringing back model names versus the current alphabet soup, I had to go look up what all these MK-s were. Current lineup from biggest to smallest: Large SUV - Navigator, needs some design changes like you talked about especially to the rear end. Will probably be replaced in the next year or two with an all-new model. Like you said, its good on paper but when you are ready to throw down $70,000 for a new SUV it's hard to pick a Lincoln over a new Tahoe LTZ/Yukon Denali/Escalade in my opinion. Or the aforementioned Q56, I see those things everywhere. Current MSRP $61,000 Lincoln MKT - big crossover. I guess this is based on the Explorer but the proportions seem different? It looks so bizarre. "Although sales have been "less than stellar" at under 715 units in January 2010, that was over 10 percent of Lincoln's sales for the month. 2010 sales for the car were about one-third of the smaller MKX." Also according to Wikipedia they are trying to re-brand this to livery businesses using the Towncar name. Making this an AWD-only Explorer that slots in above the current Explorer Sport in price and features would make sense, it already stickers for $43,000. Call the new one the Aviator again. MKX - medium crossover based on Edge $38,500 MKC - Small crossover based on the Escape, $33,000 MKS - Large sedan based on Taurus $41,000 MKZ - Midsize sedan based on the Fusion $35,000 Someone in my neighborhood drives a Mark LT Lincoln pickup but these are apparently discontinued again (remember the Blackwood which was supposed to compete with the Escalade EXT?) Probably for the best since Ford already has at least 2 different luxury trims on the trucks and Lincoln isn't bringing anything unique to the table here. The Navigator stands out like a sore thumb, Lincoln has basically set themselves up to be a company of re-badged crossovers and FWD sedans. It's like they can't decide whether to compete with Acura or Cadillac. Ford doesn't have a single RWD platform other than the Mustang so this complicates things as I think they would benefit from bringing back a flagship Continental with styling similar to the concept as well as more of a grand-tourer oriented coupe Linconstang again with similar design language to the concept. People LOVE retro poo poo and its better than the quite frankly bizarre styling they currently have, although I do think the front-end of the new Navi looks good.
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Sep 27, 2014 14:12
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Throatwarbler posted:The truck that was formerly known as the QX56 (now it's the QX80 or some poo poo) See, this is what I mean. Why the hell change something that was finally getting established? It's not a logical naming scheme in the least. quote:
I wasn't aware they sold that many in the US. quote:
I completely agree with you about the RWD flagship and the return of the colored badges. Not sure about using the LeSabre or Park Avenue names when you have cool poo poo like Invicta, Electra, Wildcat, Skylark (comedy option: Reatta) etc...It's like when they were handing out cool car names Buick got all the good ones. I think using the LeSabre and Park Avenue names would also make most people think of their grandma's Buick and I'd want to do as much as possible to not remind anyone of the styling in the 90's and 2000's. Buick definitely doesn't need a sports car, let Cadillac and Chevrolet keep those. Assuming they re-badge an SS and sell it for high $40's that would take care of the sedans. Of note is that Buick is currently the only GM brand without a full-size SUV. I'm not sure where one would fit in with the lineup or indeed the image of the brand but higher profit margins never hurt. Maybe call it the Buick Estate and have it be a more....subdued version of the Escalade for several thousand dollars less.
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Sep 27, 2014 14:31
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I must be crazy but I actually really like my girlfriend's 2014 Corolla's interior. After trying out various Hondas, Nissans, and Fords, it was the only interior that didn't feel cheap and super plasticy. I am sure now when I sit in her car that I'll start finding things in the interior that I don't like now.
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Sep 27, 2014 14:58
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Cyrezar posted:
The Escalade starts at $71,695, Over $10k more in starting price than the Navigator. For that amount of extra money I can live with the slightly worse interior in the Navigator, but if they could have added $1000 to the price and give it a much less terrible rear end and the car would be a winner. Cyrezar posted:Lincoln MKT - big crossover. I guess this is based on the Explorer but the proportions seem different? It looks so bizarre. "Although sales have been "less than stellar" at under 715 units in January 2010, that was over 10 percent of Lincoln's sales for the month. 2010 sales for the car were about one-third of the smaller MKX." Also according to Wikipedia they are trying to re-brand this to livery businesses using the Towncar name. Making this an AWD-only Explorer that slots in above the current Explorer Sport in price and features would make sense, it already stickers for $43,000. Call the new one the Aviator again. The MKT is actually closely related to the Ford Flex, which is kind of the same platform as the Explorer but obviously quite different - the Flex is meant to be a minivan. The Flex/MKT actually work pretty well as livery vehicles, the top end model has the aforementioned cooled rear seats, with leather from the same UK supplier that goes into Range Rovers and such. With a big ol panoramic sunroof and the 3.5l turbo engine it's a perfect family hauler but the styling is just too weird for most women to accept, which is why they need to go to an Explorer based vehicle instead. It's not a bad idea to have both, an Explorer based Aviator as well as retaining the current Towncar/MKT. My problem would be what would you power a neuen Aviator with? Make the Explorer Sport powertrain standard? It's a good idea for places like China that don't get the big engined Explorer but I'm skeptical about how much differentiation there can be between this and the Explorer. quote:I completely agree with you about the RWD flagship and the return of the colored badges. Not sure about using the LeSabre or Park Avenue names when you have cool poo poo like Invicta, Electra, Wildcat, Skylark (comedy option: Reatta) etc...It's like when they were handing out cool car names Buick got all the good ones. I think using the LeSabre and Park Avenue names would also make most people think of their grandma's Buick and I'd want to do as much as possible to not remind anyone of the styling in the 90's and 2000's. quote:Of note is that Buick is currently the only GM brand without a full-size SUV. I'm not sure where one would fit in with the lineup or indeed the image of the brand but higher profit margins never hurt. Maybe call it the Buick Estate and have it be a more....subdued version of the Escalade for several thousand dollars less. The original reason why GMC and Chevy co-existed was that GM had 2 different dealership models, you were either a Chevy/Olds/Caddy and a Pontiac/Buick/GMC. It's kind of all fallen apart now, but Buick and GMC still tend to share the same showrooms so I kind of question the need for a Buick Suburban - it doesn't really fit the brand's image and in any case anyone who was going to buy a GM truck will see the GMC right across the showroom floor. It's one of those things that would be all right back when GM had 70% domestic market share but right now they've got bigger problems they need to deal with. The Enclave should have been named Roadmaster from the start, but it's too late to change that now. If there was to be a Buick full size then Roadmaster is the only acceptable name.
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Sep 27, 2014 15:09
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mariooncrack posted:I must be crazy but I actually really like my girlfriend's 2014 Corolla's interior. After trying out various Hondas, Nissans, and Fords, it was the only interior that didn't feel cheap and super plasticy. I am sure now when I sit in her car that I'll start finding things in the interior that I don't like now. Well that 1980s digital clock is a bit....retro, but yeah, other than that, Car mags tend to exaggerate the differences between the interiors of common economy cars a bit, because it's a lot more interesting to read than "it's all the same cheap plastic poo poo who cares".
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Sep 27, 2014 15:14
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