Let's Read the Sword of Truth books! (Or not. Can we not?)

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Traditional Games > Let's Read the Sword of Truth books! (Or not. Can we not?)

PeterWeller: Apr 21, 2003; I told you that story so I could tell you this one.

Yeah, no need to get upset about a guy clearing a field of straw men.

# ¿ Oct 1, 2014 19:14

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# ¿ Apr 25, 2024 06:30

PeterWeller: Apr 21, 2003; I told you that story so I could tell you this one.

MartianAgitator posted:

Holy gently caress PeterWeller, I read this in the voice of RoboCop. Thanks for the laugh!

Haha. I wonder if the other guy had made that association, would he have got the satire?

Also, you poor fucks who are just experiencing this mess for the first time are in for the biggest :ughh:

of your lives when you learn the reason behind Dick's last name being Cipher.

# ¿ Oct 5, 2014 23:13

PeterWeller: Apr 21, 2003; I told you that story so I could tell you this one.

TheCenturion posted:

The thing that really REALLY bugs the poo poo out of me, about almost any series of THIS TYPE, including SoT, or GoT, and so on, is the idea that civilization will happily hum along at a stagnant level for thousands of years.

Eh, I don't find it too bothersome. Technology has declined and stagnated for great periods of time in real history, and many series do have some explanation for why it has done so in their worlds. Many settings present a world in decline or a world recovering from some apocalyptic event. Indeed, this is fundamental to the essentially conservative nature of the genre: "the world today is worse than the world that once was."

# ¿ Oct 7, 2014 18:08

PeterWeller: Apr 21, 2003; I told you that story so I could tell you this one.

Also, why the gently caress is it called a gaming metaphor? Why are the names so so lame? :v:

# ¿ Oct 7, 2014 22:50

PeterWeller: Apr 21, 2003; I told you that story so I could tell you this one.

He calls WFR an "epic fantasy adventure." Is he finally over pretending he doesn't write genre stuff?

# ¿ Nov 9, 2014 03:58

PeterWeller: Apr 21, 2003; I told you that story so I could tell you this one.

Pththya-lyi posted:

It was worse - Crassus' slaves would only put out the fire if the owner of the flaming building agreed to sell it to Crassus for a song. The deal was terrible for the original owner, but was better than having nothing. He'd have the building rebuilt and refurbished, then start renting it out.

Nah, that's not how it worked. Crassus would charge an exorbitant price to put out the fire, and if you didn't pay, he would let your building burn and then come back later and buy the remains for a song.

# ¿ Nov 14, 2014 15:26

PeterWeller: Apr 21, 2003; I told you that story so I could tell you this one.

Pththya-lyi posted:

Oooh. My bad.

The point still stands that he was practically an extortionist

Oh yeah for sure, but to be fair to Crassus, pretty much all public services in Rome were performed by extortionists of one stripe or another.

# ¿ Nov 14, 2014 15:48

PeterWeller: Apr 21, 2003; I told you that story so I could tell you this one.

HotCanadianChick posted:

I feel like we are overlooking an important part of the whole "ban fire" thing; the villains trying to outlaw fire are all strawmen - of course they're going to hate fire.

Dude, I take back anything bad I ever said about you or to you in the new car thread.

# ¿ Nov 19, 2014 02:38

PeterWeller: Apr 21, 2003; I told you that story so I could tell you this one.

I think the ethics of this series are summed up nicely by its take on emotions: anger is good, love is bad.

# ¿ Nov 22, 2014 01:23

PeterWeller: Apr 21, 2003; I told you that story so I could tell you this one.

Yaldabaoth posted:

This is why Robert Howard's Conan is the "best" Randian fantasy series, it doesn't try to hide the fact that it's about a Randian ubermensch who only cares about his own survival and personal gain instead of trying to dress it up as a heroic conflict of "Good" vs "Evil"

Nah, you basically misunderstand both Conan and Objectivism. Personal gain is big G Good in Objectivism. That's the whole point of the pseudophilosophy--to morally justify greed. Conan, especially Howard's version is interested in much more than just survival and personal gain. He is a "noble savage" who sees through "civilized" man's hypocrisy. Conan in Rand's world would slaughter the residents of Galt's Gulch, take the machine, and then give it away because the only unlimited source of energy a real man needs is his own strong arms.

# ¿ Nov 23, 2014 20:32

PeterWeller: Apr 21, 2003; I told you that story so I could tell you this one.

I only ever read WFR. How many books until the chicken-that-is-not-a-chicken?

# ¿ Nov 26, 2014 22:45

PeterWeller: Apr 21, 2003; I told you that story so I could tell you this one.

It is an abomination against Objectivism.

I don't even think that's a joke.

# ¿ Nov 26, 2014 23:02

PeterWeller: Apr 21, 2003; I told you that story so I could tell you this one.

I Love You! posted:

Actually there's one huge enormous problem with objectivism here, and the later books just blow it wide open: (major spoiler but doesn't happen for like 3-4 more books so if you don't plan to stick around that long, read this) The major plot point of later books, and I mean MAJOR, is based on a bizarre retcon that explains why Rahl's subjects are so unfailingly loyal: the Rahl dynasty has weaved an intricate spell granting powerful protection from mind-controlling magics in return for undying loyalty and all that garbage. It's why the Mord sith are so devoted to ol' Dick and why the soldiers and people basically throw themselves behind whoever the current Rahl is no matter how good/evil/stupid that person is. It's supposed to be used to justify Richard's sudden ascension to God-King while simultaneously removing some of the evil taint of Darken Rahl mindcontrolling all his citizens.

It's used over and over in the coming books to prevent other sources of mind-control and coercion, because anyone who is "sworn to Rahl" and acknowledges him as their god-king is basically immune to whatever the gently caress is happening to them. Even other villains swear themselves to him in order to rules lawyer out of various situations. People can either swear themselves to Rick or be born into it. There are unwilling members of his little pact because it is the society they were born into. But it is always agreed that the common people benefit from it, because it is worth giving up a little bit of their autonomy to share in the greater strength.

Service to Rick is considered to be A Good Thing in the novels. It binds people together, gives them strength, and lets them combat oppressive outsiders trying to take all their stuff. The D'harans are the good guys.

This is literally Social Contract Theory in action.

What the gently caress, Goodkind, are you even paying attention? BAD OBJECTIVIST, BAD

Nah, it's actually perfectly good Objectivism. Not everyone is a ubermensch. Most people are weak idiots, and if they would just know their place and dedicate themselves to the ubermensch, society would be just fine. See the (IIRC black) doorman and train engineer characters from AS for examples of untermensch who are happy because they know their place is to serve Dagny and do her bidding.

# ¿ Nov 27, 2014 19:54

PeterWeller: Apr 21, 2003; I told you that story so I could tell you this one.

I Love You! posted:

I guess that's true with purely Randian Objectivism, though modern popular objectivism tends to rail against social contract theory as if it is the one true evil.

Well it's an idiot "philosophy" that falls apart under its own weight. Two inherent problems cause this shift. One, no adherent believes himself to be anything but the ubermensch. Thus, anything that restricts his behavior is a sin. And two, the "Social Contract" as a popularly understood concept must mean all social contracts of any kind because A=A and nuance does not exist.

# ¿ Nov 27, 2014 20:52

PeterWeller: Apr 21, 2003; I told you that story so I could tell you this one.

Libertad! posted:

And Eragon is the game where one PC ends up totally overpowered because the DM needs to have a "Chosen One" for the metaplot masquerading as an adventure path.

And the setting's elves are a thinly-veined vehicle for his political views told in a a way.

Eragon is just the one where your DM is running you through his thinly veiled Star Wars fan fic. :v:

Real Talk: Absalom, Absalom! is a Call of Cthulhu Adventure.

# ¿ Dec 5, 2014 03:53

PeterWeller: Apr 21, 2003; I told you that story so I could tell you this one.

quote:

“It is we, the living, who separate, and define the worlds to each side of life. Magic is the element that gives this world the power to do that. Magic is the balance point.”

That's why. :v:

# ¿ Dec 18, 2014 01:57

PeterWeller: Apr 21, 2003; I told you that story so I could tell you this one.

Hyper Crab Tank posted:

The Harry Potter series always had a chronic problem with forgetting all the amazing stuff it introduced in past books even if they could help with a given situation in the next. That, and giving ludicrously powerful artifacts to 13-year-olds (goddamn timeturners) and yet no one seems at all concerned with the potentially catastrophic consequences if someone with an ounce of creativity got hold of them.

Actually, the Potter books are quite the opposite, with many seemingly minor things later turning out to be very significant (the cursed necklace is a great example; it first appears in book 1 or 2). And people were incredibly concerned about the abuse of time turners at least until they were all pointedly destroyed during the battle in the MoM.

# ¿ Jan 14, 2015 01:05

PeterWeller: Apr 21, 2003; I told you that story so I could tell you this one.

Eh, the cloak and map are tools of notorious mischief makers, but the series is for children, so Rowling isn't gonna have Harry go spy on Cho or anything. And much of the series is about the ethics of power, so having the cloak be intrinsically evil would be thematically inappropriate.

# ¿ Jan 14, 2015 03:43

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# ¿ Apr 25, 2024 06:30

PeterWeller: Apr 21, 2003; I told you that story so I could tell you this one.

DARKSEID DICK PICS posted:

WHYYYYYYYY can there not be a single villain in this series who isn't some sort of pervert on top of their everything else?

Had to rip off something from Dune I guess. :v:

# ¿ Jan 15, 2015 18:11

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Traditional Games > Let's Read the Sword of Truth books! (Or not. Can we not?)