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super fart shooter posted:So I've been having success with isolated blocks for supermax and PC, that are blocked in by a staff-only zone and have their own yards, canteens and rec rooms, but the one problem seems to be clothing. The guys in those categories don't work, and other prisoners aren't allowed in their blocks, so it falls to the janitors to take care of their laundry needs, which isn't working so well. I guess it's not exactly a critical situation, since all their other needs are being met, but it's kinda lame, am I really gonna have to give those guys their own private laundry rooms too? The dev video showed giving them vastly different schedules from the rest of the prison. I didn't get that far yet so... how far of a problem does it become if you try to go that route?
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Oct 9, 2014 20:43
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super fart shooter posted:The guys in those categories don't work, and other prisoners aren't allowed in their blocks, so it falls to the janitors to take care of their laundry needs, which isn't working so well. More ability to manage your non-guard staff would be great for this game. It's annoying for my janitors to do the prisoners' job for them while the staff room is filthy, the gardeners are weeding the fallow field between my exterior fences, and the chefs are laying out all the food in only one of the cafeterias... That, and a better UI for managing the reform programs.
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Oct 9, 2014 20:50
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super fart shooter posted:I kinda hope they do include guard escorts in the future so that they could actually do reform programs and use the rest of the prison facilities I've had some good luck doing per-security-level reform programs by building local cleaning supply rooms and classrooms with attached psych offices. Unfortunately, multiple infirmaries (for the drug program) work out very poorly. The doctors always end up clustering together in whatever infirmary is closest to the staffroom. Hmm, I wonder if building multiple local staffrooms would help...
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Oct 9, 2014 20:51
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StarMinstrel posted:The dev video showed giving them vastly different schedules from the rest of the prison. I didn't get that far yet so... how far of a problem does it become if you try to go that route? Well, there are a few issues that I've noticed... One is that once a prisoner enrolls in a reform program, they'll continue to attend sessions until the whole thing finishes. Even if you change their security level or schedule so that they don't have work at that time slot, they'll actually break regime and go to the program anyway. Also, prisoners will get referred into behavioral/substance abuse therapy programs even if they don't have time for it in their schedule, and again, they'll break regime to attend. I'm not sure if these are bugs or not, but there's nothing you can do to stop them. Another problem is that all prisoners are allowed to go to visitation if someone is there for them. So basically, all this stuff means that your supermax and PC's will have lots of excuses to go and mingle with the general population, which is exactly what these security classifications are supposed to prevent. Even worse is that once they get out of their isolation unit, they may end up wandering to the wrong yard, shower or canteen, and spend the whole day in the wrong part of the prison. The only way to prevent this is to completely seal them off with staff-only zones, and make their cell block self-sufficient. It sucks, because some of those guys could actually use the therapy programs, but there's just way to let them go that doesn't completely defeat the purpose of putting them in that security level to begin with.
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Oct 9, 2014 21:06
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super fart shooter posted:Well, there are a few issues that I've noticed... One is that once a prisoner enrolls in a reform program, they'll continue to attend sessions until the whole thing finishes. Even if you change their security level or schedule so that they don't have work at that time slot, they'll actually break regime and go to the program anyway. Also, prisoners will get referred into behavioral/substance abuse therapy programs even if they don't have time for it in their schedule, and again, they'll break regime to attend. I'm not sure if these are bugs or not, but there's nothing you can do to stop them. Another problem is that all prisoners are allowed to go to visitation if someone is there for them. Can you make them use a supermax only classroom/psych office?
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Oct 9, 2014 21:10
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The reform program stuff doesn't know how to handle security levels. It will create as many classes as there are rooms for but it doesn't know how to intelligently select rooms of a suitable security level when that security level has available time and then only assign that security level to the class. Yet. I'm hoping this is something that will be addressed soon since it's a pretty big issue.
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Oct 9, 2014 21:14
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McGlockenshire posted:Unfortunately, multiple infirmaries (for the drug program) work out very poorly. The doctors always end up clustering together in whatever infirmary is closest to the staffroom. Hmm, I wonder if building multiple local staffrooms would help... Definitely build multiple smaller staff rooms and kennels. If you can keep them sufficiently secure, also multiple armories. (Armory is a bit more problematic layout-wise, since it needs both a large 4x1 table and the 2x1 weapon rack to be functional, in addition to the guard lockers.) But yeah there are things you just can't stagger out in the regime. I noticed that if I tried having medium and max sec prisoners have work at different times, they would still mix in the foundation education classes. So max sec prisoners would go to class even though their regime said something entirely different.
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Oct 9, 2014 21:30
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super fart shooter posted:Well, there are a few issues that I've noticed... One is that once a prisoner enrolls in a reform program, they'll continue to attend sessions until the whole thing finishes. Even if you change their security level or schedule so that they don't have work at that time slot, they'll actually break regime and go to the program anyway. I found this out when a bunch of my medium security prisoners rioted because they were attending their alcoholics anonymous group meeting during their meal times. Also they weren't allowed to cross the yard to the rec room so they all just hung out in the showers. I'm still getting used to making separate areas for everyone.
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Oct 9, 2014 22:20
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I have a visitation room and six telephones, but everyone's just getting increasingly more angry about family matters. What is the obvious rookie mistake I might have done?
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Oct 9, 2014 22:42
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Lichtenstein posted:I have a visitation room and six telephones, but everyone's just getting increasingly more angry about family matters. What is the obvious rookie mistake I might have done? Can they get to the visitation rooms? Check to make sure your hallway there isn't staff only or something.
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Oct 9, 2014 22:44
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Lichtenstein posted:I have a visitation room and six telephones, but everyone's just getting increasingly more angry about family matters. What is the obvious rookie mistake I might have done? Where are the telephones located? Make sure they have enough freetime to actually use the things.
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Oct 9, 2014 22:48
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Also if you have more than 12 prisoners they might be waiting in line to use the phones, which is a great way for fights to break out.
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Oct 10, 2014 02:17
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I bought this game, did the tutorial, and feel completely lost on how to start a prison from scratch. I have no idea on what is required for even a basic working prison, what is a feasible building size to attempt right from the start, what areas are crucial and what aren't (warehouses? garbage dumps?), etc... Admittedly the OP does warn the tutorial is terrible. What is the best way to actually learn to play this game and be able to build a prison from scratch? Is there a good LP series, should I just watch all the dev alpha videos in order, etc...?
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Oct 10, 2014 03:20
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Megasabin posted:I bought this game, did the tutorial, and feel completely lost on how to start a prison from scratch. I have no idea on what is required for even a basic working prison, what is a feasible building size to attempt right from the start, what areas are crucial and what aren't (warehouses? garbage dumps?), etc... Grants. Open the reports folder and then the grants tab. Accept the 'Basic Detention Center' and 'Administration Center' grants and just follow those. Once you complete both you will have enough facilities to accept your first truckload of prisoners. Continue to complete the grants while you occasionally allow more prisoners into your prison. Remember you can completely turn off the flow of prisoners if you feel overwhelmed.
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Oct 10, 2014 03:34
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Away all Goats posted:Grants. Open the reports folder and then the grants tab. Accept the 'Basic Detention Center' and 'Administration Center' grants and just follow those. Once you complete both you will have enough facilities to accept your first truckload of prisoners. Continue to complete the grants while you occasionally allow more prisoners into your prison. Remember you can completely turn off the flow of prisoners if you feel overwhelmed. Do this and get a psychologist so that you can look at the needs chart and use the needs chart to catch anything you've forgotten to provide.
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Oct 10, 2014 03:39
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Also remember to start with Minimum Security prisoners only. As your prison becomes more complete in terms of facilities and you get a hang of meeting prisoners' needs and keeping them from causing trouble, then bring in the Medium Security prisoners and eventually Maximum Security. Even Minimum Security prisoners can be difficult when you're still learning.
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Oct 10, 2014 03:42
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Ah Cool. I'll do that. I didn't even know grants existed. Once you actually know how to play do most people generally play with prisoner flow always turned on? Is that what creates the challenge in the game?
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Oct 10, 2014 03:52
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Nah I'll turn off prisoner flow once I start to get full. Prisoners will never stop testing your defenses, and it's a tricky balancing act to make a prison that has enough security to keep violence and escapes down, satisfies your prisoners needs, makes money, and matches your preferences for aesthetics and punishment/reform. I think this is also a very satisfying game to take something that more or less works, and experiment with it to see what happens. Like taking a stable prison and tweaking the schedule to see how prisoners behave if you turn some of their Free Time into Yard time instead. Does it totally wreck everything because now your prisoners can't pee and watch TV for two hours a day where previously they could? What if I adjust the punishments upwards or downwards? Does extra solitary time create a large backlog of solitary sentences, does less mean prisoners don't get suppressed enough to keep them in line? etc. Pornographic Memory fucked around with this message at 04:21 on Oct 10, 2014 |
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Oct 10, 2014 04:17
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Megasabin posted:I bought this game, did the tutorial, and feel completely lost on how to start a prison from scratch. I have no idea on what is required for even a basic working prison, what is a feasible building size to attempt right from the start, what areas are crucial and what aren't (warehouses? garbage dumps?), etc...  The new personality traits make designing a good prison a lot more difficult. After having a few go down in flames I finally designed a prison that largely runs itself with minimal bloodshed.  The administrative area (offices, storage, morgue) of the prison is staff only except for the hallway to visitation. Visitors come and go using the top entrance to keep them away from the prisoners as much as possible. All incoming prisoners and goods come through the bottom entrance, passing by multiple metal detectors and guard dogs to catch contraband. Behind the administrative area is the workshops / kitchen / cleaning cupboard. Not only does this make it easy for workers to resupply these rooms, but walling them away from the rest of the prison makes it easier to scan incoming and outgoing prisoners for contraband.  The best way to keep contraband away from prisoners is to make sure it doesn't make into the prison in the first place. Unfortunately, metal detectors and guard dogs won't catch everything. I have every incoming inmate/item searched for contraband. This became a LOT easier when I figured out that clicking on an inmate/item in a truck and selecting the "search cell block" command will search everything in all waiting trucks. Now everybody/thing that comes in gets searched which, as you can see, catches a ton of stuff.  The minimum security wing of my prison houses 100, and they form the backbone of my prison labor to staff my workshops and cleaning cupboards. Although they seem to steal contraband from these rooms at about the same rate as other prisoners, they rarely have negative personality traits so as long as they are docile they won't use the contraband to hurt anyone. Most contraband (metal tools/poison/drugs) gets picked up by the dogs/metal detectors, but wooden pickaxes seem to a be a favorite item to smuggle back to their cells. Probably as a consequence, my minimum security prisoners are always the ones trying to tunnel to freedom. ESCAPE NOTE: Prisoners will largely try the same escape route every time, and will always tunnel using the path of least resistance (which in my prison is the gap out the outside perimeter wall on the left where the staff door is). Instead of trying to seal everything off, it's a lot easier to just keep the area open and layer the future escape route with dog patrols. CONTRABAND NOTE: Using the shakedown command seems to cause the inmates a lot more unrest than if you had just searched everyone's room individually. Normally what I do to prevent unnecessary searches and keep the inmates calm is to use confidential informants. CIs seem to have more coverage the longer they stay in your prison, so I usually just drag one in every two or three days and only search cells that have shovels or clubs.  The medium security wing houses 66 prisoners. They are mostly confined in the medium security wing unless they're working at the workshop or going to classes/therapy. Medium security prisoners start to come in with bad personality traits (deadly, instigator, etc.) so I usually try to identify the troublemakers early and reclassify them as max/supermax inmates. This leaves a typical medium security prisoner as having some bad trait (stoic, fearless), but as long as they're happy can even work in the workshop without causing any trouble.  Maximum security prisoners are usually prisoners who have the volatile/instigator traits. Their rooms come with more amenities like a TV to allow them to stay locked down as much as possible. Naturally, in the yard and canteen they start a bunch of fights among themselves but since they're isolated they don't have weapons and since I've reclassified the tough/deadly guys into supermax the maximum security inmates can't cause any problems some guards can't handle. As long as they're heavily guarded they tend to be suppressed enough to be manageable. For obvious reasons, DO NOT segregate volatile/instigators and deadly prisoners together unless you want a real mess on your hands.  Protective custody (middle group of cells) and super max (bottom building with cells) are segregated away from everyone and are almost 23/7 lockdown. I use supermax to house my deadly/extremely tough prisoners. Luckily, deadly prisoners whose needs are being met are pretty chill and normally don't give any problems. Protective custody inmates can cause their own problems because sometimes they end up with other traits in addition to ex-law enforcement/snitch. A snitch/instigator or snitch/volatile can cause the whole cell block problems, so it may be worth it to make them super max (with heavy guard) instead of protective custody. But if all else fails...  Will society really miss this guy? I discovered pretty quickly that for some reason not everybody who dies in your prison counts as a "prison death" that negatively impacts your value. Apparently people that die of starvation or medical neglect (are seriously wounded and bleed out later) don't count. As a result, you might want to be a lot choosier who gets prompt medical attention/food. If you don't mind being an inhuman monster, you can just let those with undesirable combinations of traits (volatile/extremely deadly, Ex-law enforcement/instigator, etc.) shuffle off to the great prison in the sky. GamingHyena fucked around with this message at 07:22 on Oct 10, 2014 |
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Oct 10, 2014 07:07
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I really have a problem with the laundry system. My prison is really huge and there are multiple wings and although I managed to get the canteen problems under control (they still cook so much there's ton's of food in storage but that ok I guess) my laundry system is failling real bad. Also most of my deaths come from fights in the laundry rooms. I also had a fun incident where PC prisoners turned on each other for being snitches. Whole complex  Main Block, all maximum security plus the normal guys I took at first and turned into max sec for profit  Lower block and entrance/screening/services  Utilities (I only understood how to use capacitators a few hours ago, they have to go around the power station you can't do a block of them)  Oh god wiring, not sure if there is an upper limit on security doors so the main block doors are on the same 3 consoles for maximum effectiveness  Room deployment  So I tried to distribute the services and facilities all around but it still leads to wierd results sometimes. I just had a riot in the SuperMax laundry area where they killed a random MaxSec guy who ended up there for some reason.
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Oct 10, 2014 14:09
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Started playing again after skipping ten or so versions. That Nutrition Research grant is basically a trap and now people are angry  Also had my first casualty, where some of my prisoners found time in their busy schedule to murder a prisoner who was both a snitch and ex-law enforcement. Dude lasted ten hours.
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Oct 11, 2014 19:27
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My first time playing with the updates and for my first batch of max sec guys I get a legendary. He lasted half a day before going on a rampage in the kitchen and murdering my cooks and 90% of my guards. Then the riot police beat him to death. RIP Tim
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Oct 11, 2014 20:13
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I need to remember to check Reputation before prisoners even get off the truck. The riot that the Snitch Ex-Cop (who I didn't notice) got started is evidence of that..
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Oct 11, 2014 20:18
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Well, everything was going smoothly until my laundry room caught on fire. I decided to sell my prison and let the next guy deal with hollowed out shell of a fire-damaged prison. I don't know what the inmates will do. Note to self: disconnect laundry room from rest of prison.
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Oct 11, 2014 23:03
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Cemetry Gator posted:Well, everything was going smoothly until my laundry room caught on fire. Was there a riot in the laundry? I'm betting that if you've seen it, you watch the Shawshank Redemption on TNT.
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Oct 11, 2014 23:48
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Cemetry Gator posted:Well, everything was going smoothly until my laundry room caught on fire. I always try to install a shut off valve on the water pipes to the laundry room. An appliance that uses electricity and water is just asking for trouble if a prisoner decides to riot in there and start punching the laundry machines.
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Oct 12, 2014 00:02
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Im having tunnel trouble. My dogs are dropping flags reasonably regular but not in any specific area. Ive searched cell blocks and even ripped out every toilet and not found anything, so now I have some questions. How often do dogs give false positives? If 4 or 5 flags have come up over a few days is there a chance theres no tunnels at all? Or do the flags also represent something else? Does dismantling toilets automatically uncover tunnels or do you also need to search afterwards? Do you need to dismantle showers and drains too? Coz at this point im either not looking in the right place or my dogs are huffing all those discarded drugs found when people come in to my prison 
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Oct 12, 2014 00:28
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Box Hill Strangler posted:Im having tunnel trouble. My dogs are dropping flags reasonably regular but not in any specific area. Ive searched cell blocks and even ripped out every toilet and not found anything, so now I have some questions. My prison has three dog patrols and I get a flag come up every couple of days as false positives. First thing to think is: Is this reasonably likely to be the shortest route out of the prison for anyone? If it's near, but not on, a major pipeline it's probably a false positive, same if it's on the other side of the prison from all your cells. If you think you're onto one, have dogs sniff around the area to see if more flags come up. If not, it's false. Tunnels only ever come from toilets and dismantling the toilets will reveal the tunnels.
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Oct 12, 2014 00:35
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Box Hill Strangler posted:Im having tunnel trouble. My dogs are dropping flags reasonably regular but not in any specific area. Ive searched cell blocks and even ripped out every toilet and not found anything, so now I have some questions. False flags are common but easy to check. Just click on a dog and have him go over and confirm. If there's an actual tunnel you'll get a bunch of flags within seconds of each other. As of right now tunnels only come from toilets so if you've dismantled the toilets then you're fine.
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Oct 12, 2014 00:35
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Does searching the toilets not find the tunnel anymore?
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Oct 12, 2014 05:55
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Stereotype posted:Does searching the toilets not find the tunnel anymore? I think there's a chance it will but it's a pretty low chance, I've never seen them manage it. Best way to reveal them is to dismantle the toilet or wait until night time and then call for a manual search of the cell to catch them in the tunneling act. Don't do a shakedown, they'll run back to bed for that.
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Oct 12, 2014 06:05
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I do 'Search cell block' about once or twice a day on all my cell blocks at my prison and it definitely still reveals tunnels. Hard to tell if there's a percentage chance to discovering the tunnel or if it's always going to find it though.
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Oct 12, 2014 06:16
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It is a chance, the alpha video goes into it a bit.
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Oct 12, 2014 06:17
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Box Hill Strangler posted:How often do dogs give false positives? If 4 or 5 flags have come up over a few days is there a chance theres no tunnels at all? Or do the flags also represent something else?
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Oct 12, 2014 06:40
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If you're really, really, really paranoid about tunnels and absolutely have to know whether the dogs are giving false alarms or not, you can figure it out by reading the save game. Pop open the save file in Notepad and look for "BEGIN Diggers". If the diggers Size is 0, then nobody is actually digging. I had dogs constantly alarming around the entrance to my prison, the only place that wasn't protected by perimeter walls. The alarms were steadily moving further and further towards the road, but even repeated surprise block searches never turned anything up. It turned out that I have like three dozen barely dug tunnel nodes and nobody actually bothering to dig right now.
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Oct 12, 2014 08:29
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I am finding you need an absurdly large kitchen and cafeteria if https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/19IGs4dUNnORnFhsJhC00zNXR2PjE3FNwEybNQKt_Ef4/edit?pli=1#gid=0 is to be believed. Is this correct? Can I do anything to get away with smaller food areas?
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Oct 12, 2014 08:38
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Unfortunately tunnels aren't random. One of the early videos showed their debug interface where it showed for every tile there is a direction that a tunnel will move from that square. I imagine that gets recalculated to account for other tunnels so that tunnels are more like to join up, however if you're leaving gaps in your perimeter wall then they'll basically always end up tunneling through the gaps. For now at least, I fully imagine once leaving a gap becomes a 'thing' (like people abusing workshops), Chris will gently caress it up.
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Oct 12, 2014 08:39
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I give up trying to teach my loving morons how to use tasers. I tried everything to get them to class. I tried the back to back class scheduling someone suggested. I tried turning off all their patrols and sending them to the classroom manually so that they will literally have nothing better to do than to wait. They sit there with the chief and nothing happens other than an hour of 'preparing' from the chief and nothing at ALL happening. Does anyone know a surefire way to do this, or hell at this point I'm willing to cheat it in because gently caress this refusal to learn. EDIT: Okay so apparently setting classes up back to back to back will make the chief actually teach rather than just 'prepare'. The downside to this is that since I've had to take all my guards off patrols, deaths are on a gigantic increase. This combined with a far from 100% success rate with classes means taser teaching will go VERY slow. Blackray Jack fucked around with this message at 12:17 on Oct 12, 2014 |
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Oct 12, 2014 11:14
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Away all Goats posted:I do 'Search cell block' about once or twice a day on all my cell blocks at my prison and it definitely still reveals tunnels. Hard to tell if there's a percentage chance to discovering the tunnel or if it's always going to find it though. The way it works is that dismantling a toilet will automatically reveal if there's a tunnel there. Searching the toilet has a chance to discover the tunnel, with the chance being MUCH higher if the tunnel is actively being dug when you search it (so it's best to do your cell checks at night). Regular checks will probably find all the tunnels anyway, especially since once you discover one, it will reveal all the other tunnels that have joined up to it. What I'd like them to do is start adding more locations prisoners can start making tunnels, maybe have them go find an out of the way spot and start digging during free time rather than always at night.
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Oct 12, 2014 11:35
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Blackray Jack posted:I give up trying to teach my loving morons how to use tasers. I tried everything to get them to class. I tried the back to back class scheduling someone suggested. I tried turning off all their patrols and sending them to the classroom manually so that they will literally have nothing better to do than to wait. They sit there with the chief and nothing happens other than an hour of 'preparing' from the chief and nothing at ALL happening. Does anyone know a surefire way to do this, or hell at this point I'm willing to cheat it in because gently caress this refusal to learn. I've found that the first class of the day is bugged and doesn't work. So you'll always have like 10 guards without tasers unless you remove some desks
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Oct 12, 2014 14:07
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