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Craptacular
Jul 11, 2004



People legally carry handguns around in public sometimes. This is a thread about doing that.

Legality:
Unlike most other countries, it's legal for the general public to carry a handgun in the United States with a lot of restrictions and exceptions. There are some other countries where it's legal for the general public to carry, but I'm not familiar with the specifics so I'm going to limit the OP to discussing the United States. If anyone reading this is familiar with laws in other countries, please make an effort post in this thread and I'll link to it here.

Licensing:
The licensing scheme in each each US state and territory falls into one of four different categories:
  • Permitless or "constitutional carry." Other than Vermont, these states also issue licenses for those who want them, typically so that licensees are legal to carry in other states which require a license. Also, in some states, licensees may be able to legally carry in certain places where those carrying without a license may not be able to legally do so.
  • Shall issue - a license is required in order to carry, but as long as a person meets the statutory requirements to get a license, the issuing authority must issue the license. The majority of states are in this category.
  • May issue - a license is required in order to carry, and the issuing authority has discretion on whether they issue a license or not. In some states (e.g. New Jersey, Hawaii and others) it's pretty much impossible for anyone in the state to get a license. Though theoretically one could be issued, they're effectively no-issue. In other states (e.g. California, Massachusetts and New York) the ability to get a license is highly dependent on where in the state the applicant lives. Licenses in those states are issued by counties or cities, and each county or city has it's own determining factors as to who can get a license, ranging from no-issue, to only issuing licenses to the politically connected or those who bribe the issuing authority, to effectively shall-issue.
  • No issue - There is no legal method for a member of the general public to carry a handgun in these jurisdictions.
In the last 30 years there's been steady progress where many states have been moving from no- or may-issue to shall-issue or permitless carry.





State law:
State laws that proscribe where a licensee may carry are quite varied. I'm not going to say much here other than link to Handgunlaw.us and tell you to follow the links there to your state's law. That site is really good about keeping up to date with laws as they change.

Federal law:
The federal government does not carry licenses. The only way to carry on federal credentials is as a duly-authorized federal employee. The only restrictions in federal law against the general public carrying firearms are no carrying in federal facilities and no carrying on commercial interstate transport (commercial airliners, interstate trains, and interstate buses). The legality of carrying in national parks and national forests mirrors the state where the national park or national forest is located, with the exception that carrying is banned inside buildings no matter what. The federal school zone law limits carry in and around schools, but has an exception allowing a state licensee to carry inside a school zone if allowed by state law. Most states don't allow licensees to carry in school buildings, but many allow licensees to carry either outside school buildings in the school zone, or in their cars on school grounds. "Schools" as defined by the law are primary and secondary schools, not colleges or universities. Many states still restrict carrying at colleges and universities, but it's less common than restricting carry at primary and secondary schools.

Reciprocity & recognition
Unlike driver's licenses, which allow the licensee to drive in any other state, a carry license does not entitle the licensee to carry their handgun everywhere else in the US. Each state determines which out-of-state licenses they'll recognize, ranging from only recognizing their own license, to only recognizing licenses that meet their standards, to recognizing all other state licenses. Again, handgunlaw.us is a good resource to determine which states honor which licenses. States also usually provide a listing of which licenses their state recognizes, usually on the state police website or something similar.

If a state where a licensee wants to travel does not recognize a license from the licensee's home state, in some cases it is possible to get a non-resident license from a third state which the destination state recognizes. Some states (Colorado, Florida, Maine, Michigan, New Hampshire, and South Carolina) specifically disallow carrying on a non-resident license. For example, a Floridian can carry in Colorado on a Florida license, because Colorado recognizes Florida licenses. However, a Californian has no legal way to carry concealed in Colorado, even if a Californian has a non-resident Florida license, as Colorado recognizes neither California licenses nor non-resident licenses from another state, nor will Colorado issue a non-resident license to a Californian.

Besides concealed carry, there are other methods of carrying a firearm that can be regulated differently, depending on jurisdiction. Carrying in a private vehicle is often less restricted than carrying when outside the vehicle.



Open carry is carrying a firearm where it is purposely not concealed and is visible to casual observation. Due to various historical reasons, in many jurisdictions open carry is less restricted than concealed carry, often not requiring a license at all. However, even if it is legal, the reaction to open carry by both the general public and law enforcement will vary widely depending on location. If the only reason you open carry is to get a reaction from other people or make a statement, don't. In general it's probably better to conceal anyways.



Training:
Many states just require the applicant to pass a background check and pay a fee to get a license. Other states also require the applicant to complete some sort of training class. In most instances the class follows a state-mandated curriculum, and may include a range test where the applicant is required to prove that they can safely handle a firearm and meet certain minimum accuracy requirements.

Even if a class is not legally required, I highly recommend taking additional training. An acceptable baseline is the NRA Personal Protection Outside the Home course. However, there are many good instructors who don't follow the NRA curriculum. Note that when a state requires a class in order to receive a license, most of the class time is typically spent covering things like the state's use-of-force laws, where it's legal to carry and where it's not, conflict resolution techniques, etc, and little if any time is spent on how to shoot a handgun. So even if you're required to take a state-mandated class, additional firearms instruction is an excellent idea.

Holster types:

There's many places on the body where a handgun can be carried. As I describe them, I will be referring to the gun carrier's body from a top-down view in relation to a clock face, i.e. the belt buckle is at 12 o'clock, the gun carrier's right-hand side is at 3 o'clock, the spine is at 6 o'clock, and their left-hand side is at 9 o'clock.
  • Outside the waistband (OWB) - where the holster and gun are carried by a belt and rest outside the waistband of the pants. Typically the holster is at 3 o'clock for right-handed gun carriers. OWB concealed carry requires some sort of cover garment to conceal the gun, whether an untucked shirt or a sweater or jacket. This is probably the most comfortable method of carry. It's also one of the quickest to draw from, and one that will let you carry the biggest handgun. For these reasons, open carry is almost always OWB, because if there's no need to conceal the firearm then there's no reason to accept the compromises that other carry methods require. OWB holsters are also typically the only holsters available with additional retention devices, which make it more difficult for someone other than the gun carrier to remove the gun from the holster.
  • Inside the waistband (IWB) - where the holster and gun are carried by a belt, and the muzzle of the handgun rests inside the waistband of the pants, with only the grip and the rear of the slide visible. Typically the holster is located somewhere between 3-4 o'clock for right-handed gun carriers. Like OWB, IWB requires a cover garment to conceal the gun's grip. However, because the gun's muzzle is inside the pants, the cover garment doesn't have to be as long as a cover garment for OWB carry. Some IWB holsters have a "tuckable" feature which allows the carrier's shirt to be tucked in, instead of untucked. However, the gun is slower to access with a tucked shirt, so if the dress code permits, untucked carry is generally preferred. When untucked, IWB is almost as fast to draw from as OWB, and with pants that have a slightly larger waistband than you would normally use, it can be just as comfortable. "Mexican carry" is slang for IWB without a holster, just jammed inside the carrier's waistband. This is not recommended for many reasons, not the least of which is preventing something like this.
  • Appendix inside the waistband (AIWB) - A subset of IWB, where the gun is carried at 1-2 o'clock. This usually requires a purpose-built AIWB holster that's built slightly different than a holster for normal IWB. AIWB is slightly quicker to draw from than normal IWB, and can conceal better too. However, it has the downside of pointing the muzzle at the gun carrier's genitals and/or femoral artery, especially when seated. See Blight Runner's post on AIWB carry.
  • Pocket - If this method is used, don't just throw the gun in a pocket, use a pocket holster. It breaks up the outline of the gun so it's less visible through the pocket fabric, and prevents the trigger from being accidentally pulled through the pocket fabric. However, even when using a pocket holster, the gun and holster should be the only things carried in that pocket. Otherwise whatever else is in that pocket can get in the way of drawing the gun from the holster, and even possibly get inside the trigger guard and cause a negligent discharge. One advantage to pocket carry is that it's often possible to for the gun carrier to put their hand on the gun without drawing the gun and drawing attention, which can be an advantage in situations that are alarming and have the potential to go further downhill, but which haven't quite escalated to "start shooting" yet. Another advantage is that it's relatively easy for a gun carrier to disarm themselves when pocket carrying, to enter places where carry is prohibited. In comparison, belt holsters can be much more complicated to put on or remove.
  • Ankle - where the gun is carried next to or just above the ankle. Right-handed gun carriers usually carry on the inside of their left ankle and vice-versa for lefties. Ankle carry is generally used for a backup gun due to it being more awkward and slow to draw from. Here's a good video on ankle carry.
  • Shoulder - where the gun is carried under the opposite armpit. Right-handed carriers carry under the left armpit, lefties under the right, with the grip pointing forward. Depending on the design, the holster can either carry the gun with the barrel pointing down, or pointing to the rear. It's not usually the best method for carrying a handgun: it's slower to access than either IWB or OWB, it's relatively easy for the gun carrier to accidentally point the gun at their opposite arm when they draw the gun, it requires a cover garment that can open at the front, and it's difficult or impossible to draw the gun with your non-dominant hand. It's rare when it's a better option than IWB or OWB carry, though apparently it can a better option for people with back problems.
  • Small-of-the-back (SOB) - a type of OWB or IWB carry where the gun is carried at the 6 o'clock position. It's unsafe in that if the gun carrier happens to fall on their back and land on the gun, it's much more likely to cause a spinal injury than normal OWB or IWB carry. But it's also awkward to draw from, easy to muzzle-sweep yourself when drawing, prints like crazy through your shirt if you bend over, and it's much harder to defend against someone grabbing the gun. This is probably the worst way to carry a gun. Unsurprisingly, it's commonly depicted by Hollywood/popular media as a carry method. Do not use this method of carry.
  • Drop-leg - where the holster is carried in the same position as an OWB holster (3 o'clock or 9 o'clock), but the holster is dropped down to sit over the upper thigh instead of being on the belt. Generally this style of holster will have a strap connecting the top of the holster with the belt, and a second strap on the bottom of the holster that loops around the leg. These are not a CCW holsters, and really shouldn't be used by the vast majority of people open-carrying either. The purpose behind a drop-leg holster is to allow open-carrying a pistol when the belt is obstructed due to wearing a plate carrier and body armor. If you're not doing that, then a drop-leg holster has no purpose, and they tend to be less comfortable and get in the way more than a normal OWB holster. Just use a normal OWB holster instead.
  • Crossdraw - a type of OWB or IWB carry where the gun is carried on the opposite hip from normal IWB or OWB (at 3 o'clock or 9 o'clock) with the gun's grip pointing forward. Outside of some edge cases like a cab driver who spends the majority of his day sitting down and may have to draw against a robber in his cab's back seat, this is usually not the best method of carry, as crossdraws are more awkward to draw from and don't conceal as well compared to normal IWB carry.
  • Bellyband - a specific type of IWB holster where the holster consists of an large elastic band, with a pocket for inserting the firearm. It's probably better for use with firearms that have manual safeties or long double-action trigger pulls, so that the trigger won't be accidentally pulled through the belly band's fabric. Crossbreed does sell a bellyband with velcro-attached kydex shells, which would be better for guns without manual safeties.
  • Waistpack - a type of OWB carry where the gun is carried in a small waistpack, typically at 12 o'clock. Due to the waistpack having its own integral strap, a belt is not needed. A purpose-built waistpack with an integral holster and quick-draw zipper is a much better idea than repurposing a normal waistpack, but even then, drawing the gun is a multi-step process and rather slow compared to IWB or OWB belt carry. Also, you will look like a dork. Two exceptions to dorkiness are the Pistolwear PT-One and PT-2 holsters, which are a cross between a waistpack and a bellyband, and conceal under your clothes. I've used a PT-2 for carrying while running and would recommend it for that purpose.
  • Off-body - where the gun is concealed in some other carried container, like a purse or briefcase or Jack Bauer-style knapsack, or permanently mounted holsters on the underside of a desk or inside a vehicle. These are also not ideal carry methods. It's important for a gun carrier to always retain control of their firearm. If it's not on their body, it's easy to lose control of the gun, whether from someone stealing the container or the gun carrier merely stepping away from the container. Don't be like this woman. Like pocket carry, it's important to isolate the gun from any other objects that may be in the container. For example, many purpose-built gun carry purses have concealed pockets designed to hold the gun and nothing else.

A good holster also has other general qualities to look for:
  • It should be specifically made for your gun's model. One-size-fits-all, doesn't. A holster designed for your gun will hold the gun at the correct height inside the holster: high enough to allow a good firing grip, but low enough to where it won't fall out. This isn't guaranteed for a one-size-fits-all holster. For some holster types (e.g. waistpacks and most forms of off-body carry) the gun is totally enclosed in the holster, so these problems are less of an issue, and therefore most waistpacks, purses and cases aren't made for specific models.
  • It should take your conscious decision to remove the gun from the holster, by having some form of retention. For concealed carry, this could be passive retention where the materials grip the gun tightly enough to where the gun won't fall out, or simple active retention like a thumbbreak strap. If open carrying, it would be a good idea to use a holster with additional forms of active retention that have to be manually deactivated by a button or lever, which are designed to help prevent someone else from removing the gun from your holster. Avoid the Blackhawk Serpa holster. Among other problems, it's a poor design because it uses your trigger finger to deactivate the holster's retention. The Safariland SLS and ALS are much better designs.
  • It should also take your conscious decision to remove the holster from your body. For example, if the holster is attached to your belt with one flimsy steel spring clip, and the holster completely falls off your belt and/or breaks if struck by something, it's a bad holster.

Avoid using more than two or maybe three different carry methods. For example, I carry AIWB almost 100% of the time and only rarely use other methods. Accessing and drawing the gun needs to be instinctive, but the more carry methods used, the greater the possibility of forgetting exactly where the gun is being carried at that particular moment.

Gun belts:
Many carry methods are belt-based; if one of those methods is used, a good gun belt is needed in addition to a holster. Don't cheap out and try to use a normal belt. Normal belts are designed to hold up pants, nothing more. Gun belts are designed to carry the load of a handgun and spare ammunition, and therefore need to be stiffer than normal belts. A stiffer belt means the gun will flop around much less, increasing safety, comfort, and how well the gun conceals.

Other things to have besides a gun:
  • A pair of running shoes. I don't necessarily mean this literally, but mean that the ideal reaction to a bad situation should be to self-extricate from the situation without firing a shot. Even better, develop the wisdom/intuition to not get in the situation in the first place.
  • Night sights. These are gun sights which have a tiny amount of glowing radioactive tritium gas enclosed in them, which makes it easier to see the gun's sights in the dark. However, they don't illuminate what the gun is pointing at, just the sights themselves. Target identification is important.
  • A flashlight, either standalone or attached to the gun. A standalone light can come in handy in normal situations for illuminating things when it isn't appropriate to point a handgun at them. However, it's more difficult to shoot a handgun well when trying to hold both it and a light. A weapon light is a purpose-built light which usually mounts on an accessory rail below the handgun's barrel. An advantage to a weapon light is that it's available immediately when the handgun is drawn from the holster. However, many handguns (usually smaller models) don't have a way to attach a weapon light. A holster designed for a specific gun and light combination is also required. Guns with mounted lights usually won't fit in normal holsters, and guns without lights will not be retained properly in a holster designed for a gun with a mounted light. My suggestion would be to carry two lights if possible: a weapon light on the gun and a separate standalone light.
  • Spare magazines or revolver speedloaders. This isn't necessarily to provide more ammunition, but to also provide an alternate source of ammunition if the gun malfunctions. When carrying OWB or IWB, a spare magazine is usually carried in a purpose-built magazine carrier on the other hip, opposite the handgun. It's also OK to just use a pocket, but it is a little slower to access.

Choosing a carry gun:
This is always a compromise between concealability and effectiveness. Tiny little .380's are easy to conceal and can weigh so little that it's easy to forget they're being carried, but they're more difficult to shoot well and only hold a few shots. A full-size service pistol is more difficult to conceal well and can be heavy to carry around all day, but it will hold more ammunition, have better sights, and generally be easier to shoot. An important consideration in choosing a carry gun is to first decide how the gun will be carried. The method will determine the maximum size of the firearm. You're not going to fit a full-size service pistol in your front jeans pocket. If you want to use multiple methods, often dictated by the style of clothing worn, then the best option may be multiple guns, one for each carry method. A good rule would be to carry the largest pistol (in terms of both size and capacity), that you will actually carry (instead of leaving in your safe), which you can effectively conceal.

Choose a gun and carry method with which you're comfortable carrying with a round chambered. It's quite possible, if not highly likely, that if you must shoot in self-defense that you will have neither the time nor the ability to chamber a round before you need to shoot.

Choosing a caliber & ammunition:
  • Don't use .22LR, or any type of rimfire ammunition for that matter. Rimfire ammunition is not reliable enough for self-defense and .22LR is too small of a caliber anyways.
  • Avoid .25 and .32 caliber handguns. Like .22LR, they're too small, and there are so many small handguns available in larger calibers (1) (2) that going to a smaller cartridge doesn't gain any concealability.
  • Don't carry full metal jacket (FMJ) ammunition. It's great for practice, but sub-standard for self-defense. You didn't sign the Hague Convention, so don't be limited in your ammunition selection.
  • Do carry quality jacketed hollowpoint (JHP) ammunition.
  • Don't carry reloads. Reloaded ammunition's quality control most likely isn't up to the standards of factory ammunition. Also, if you were involved in a shooting, it can be more difficult for forensics to determine things like how far away an assailant was from the shooter, by analyzing the powder burns. Factory ammunition has other factory ammunition against which it can be compared, which isn't necessarily the case with reloads.
  • Don't buy a gun chambered in some crazy moon cartridge, even if the gun store clerk swears by it. It'll be more difficult to find ammunition and it'll almost certainly be more expensive when you can find the ammo.
  • Do buy a gun in 9x19mm, .40 S&W, .45 ACP or .357 Magnum. If it's necessary in order to carry a smaller gun, .380 ACP or .38 Special are also at the lower end of acceptable. They're the smallest cartridges that can get the minimum 12" penetration recommended by the FBI (1) (2). However, stay with 9x19mm or larger if possible. Unless your self-protection problems include large predatory animals, it's also possible to go too far in the other direction. Calibers like .44 Magnum and 10mm are probably overkill, with more penetration and recoil than necessary, and more expensive ammunition.
  • Choose one brand of carry ammunition and test fire several boxes of that ammunition through your chosen carry gun, in order to make sure that there are no malfunctions with that specific brand.
  • Finally, if you want to make any modifications to your gun, read this first.

Links:

Legal:
Handgunlaw.us - state carry laws and reciprocity.
USACarry.com - carry information and gun/gear reviews.
Texas3006.com - Texas-specific site which lists businesses where licensees are legally barred from carrying.
TexasCHLForum.com - Texas-specific site for Texas CHL & gun law discussion.

Holsters & gear:
Raven Concealment
Comp-tac
Crossbreed
Safariland
Milt Sparks
Galco
DeSantis
JM Custom
Off the Grid Concepts
Bravo Concealment
Dale Fricke Holsters
T.Rex Arms
The Belt Man gun belts
Hank's Belts gun belts

PM me:
  • with suggestions to the OP.
  • with more holster/gear/state-specific discussion/legal links.
  • with good effort posts in the thread that should be linked in the OP.

Mod edit:

The CCW thread has to be a place where we can discuss hosed up CCW incidents. This is a legit thing that happens in any CCW class worth its salt. You watch footage of dudes having to draw down, discuss whether it was a good or a bad shoot, and then find out what the courts decided, and then discuss whether that was bullshit or not. The law has some pretty specific opinions about what qualifies as a justifiable use of lethal force and any time we're talking about CCW that's exactly what we're talking about.

99% of the time when CCW (and defensive gun use in general) comes up in the media it's going to be because it's a crazy hosed up scenario. Maybe it's an edge case that there's no clear answer for, maybe it's a clean shoot that's controversial for reasons involving local politics, maybe it's the dirtiest shoot ever but the guy was an off duty cop so nothing comes of it. Whatever the case, the story is there because it's sensational and will draw people to tune in or click a link and if they're really lucky they'll get that all desired viewer engagement when everyone argues with each other in the comments section.

Frankly we need to be able to discuss those cases too, and we need to be able to do it in a halfway coherent way. This isn't D&D and this isn't CSPAM so let's leave the controversy at the door. Yes, this will be difficult at times. Frequently the people who get in the sorts of altercations that end up filmed and on the news are operating in a politically charged atmosphere and not making the best decisions leading up to the ultimate decision to produce a weapon. That said, let's try.

When we discuss concealed carry shoots let's stick to the mechanics of the situation. Is it a good shoot from a legal standpoint? Does the concealed carrier make any good or bad decisions that fundamentally altered the situation? What about the decisions after the first shots are fired? These things frequently don't just end right away. What can we learn from watching this?

Craptacular fucked around with this message at 04:57 on Jan 25, 2020

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Craptacular
Jul 11, 2004



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DF7VbYh9Qqk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yu_oplLeNDA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VeFdM2Xq_ao
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9X0eE2Q3AaE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fLKrkmSToo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m58IBC9SCGE

Craptacular fucked around with this message at 14:01 on Oct 4, 2019

z06ck
Dec 22, 2010



Excellent, thank you for this

Butch Cassidy
Jul 28, 2010



Craptacular posted:

I'd like to get some photos of different holster types as they're worn, to better illustrate them, but I'm not a great photographer by any means. If anyone wants to take some, go right ahead. I might try taking some tomorrow anyways.

Once my Archangel comes back to me, I can stick a G23 and G27 in it and compare it to an INCOG for the same. And can also get into some G42 and LCP pocket holsters.

Darth Freddy
Feb 6, 2007

An Emperor's slightest dislike is transmitted to those who serve him, and there it is amplified into rage.

Great info and love all the new links for holsters. I have a Bravo Concealment OWB coming in "some time" and will get pictures as soon as it does.

DeesGrandpa
Oct 21, 2009



Buy a S&W 36/4/642/638 for your carry gat





Unless Moro Tribesmen are a concern, then bump it up a bit



about tree fiddy (seven)

snotball007
Dec 5, 2011

Disturbing in the least.

Looks rather good. Bonus points on not just saying "Glock 19 + MTAC" in the gun and holster sections.

TheDon01
Mar 8, 2009




My current carry setup.

CZ-P01 and an IWB DeSantis Cozy Partner holster

Admiral Bosch
Apr 19, 2007
Who is Admiral Aken Bosch, and what is that old scoundrel up to?

Rocking a Sig 229 DAK in .40 with goon-recommended Comptac MTAC. I'm a food delivery driver(life is hell), and there are still parts of the map I don't feel comfortable without carrying. Only irritating part is I often have to deliver to dorms, so pursuant to NC law(unless I totally misinterpreted last year's ruling) I have to stow it in the locked glovebox anytime I'm on campus, or on hospital property.

Bigass Moth
Mar 6, 2004

I joined the #RXT REVOLUTION.

he knows...


Great OP, thank you for putting it together so thoroughly and quickly!

This .380 ammo was suggested as the top performer in the old thread. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOwCXXpEP50 Has anyone here tried it? I've never even heard of this company (Precision One).

Servicio en Espanol
Feb 5, 2009


I know TFR heavily recommends gats, but I'm leaning towards a roscoe for CC

Crunkjuice
Apr 4, 2007

That could've gotten in my eye!
*launches teargas at unarmed protestors*

I THINK OAKLAND PD'S USE OF EXCESSIVE FORCE WAS JUSTIFIED!


As a fellow Texan, how does getting an out of state chl for Florida or another state work?

TheDon01
Mar 8, 2009




Crunkjuice posted:

As a fellow Texan, how does getting an out of state chl for Florida or another state work?

If I'm understanding the reciprocity correctly, your TX carry license is good in the following states.


http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/USS...norMyPermit.pdf
AK, AL, AR, AZ, CO, DE, FL, GA, IA, ID, IN, KS, KY, LA, MI, MN, MO, MS, MT, NC, ND, NE, NM, OK, PA, SC, SD, TN, UT, VA,
VT, WI, WV, WY

Don't quote me on this though, I live in AK and don't even bother with a CHL.

Servicio en Espanol posted:

I know TFR heavily recommends gats, but I'm leaning towards a roscoe for CC
Have you considered a heater?

Butch Cassidy
Jul 28, 2010



I just walk the dog.

Craptacular
Jul 11, 2004



Crunkjuice posted:

As a fellow Texan, how does getting an out of state chl for Florida or another state work?

I have two out-of-state licenses, Florida and Washingon. Florida pretty easy, just go to their website and request an application. It's around $100 for 7 years. You need to submit passport-size photos, fingerprint cards and proof that you can safely operate a firearm. For Texas applicants, I believe that Florida now accepts possession of a Texas CHL as proof to satisfy this requirement, because the Texas CHL class has a range test. But proof of completion of a non-state mandated training course works too.

Washington is a lot simpler, except you have to apply in person. Show up at a county courthouse (as a non-resident you can go to any one), fill out a form (which basically asks the same disqualifying questions that are on a form 4473) and pay $60. The license is good for 5 years, renewals are $30. As an aside, the only reason Washington doesn't recognize Texas CHLs is because Texas will issue a license to an 18-20 year old who is on active duty or who has been honorably discharged (despite a requirement to be 21 for everyone else). Washington has a requirement to be 21 for everyone. Now you'd think the obvious solution would be to recognize all Texas CHLs possessed by licensees who are 21 or older, and not recognize the tiny minority of CHLs possessed by licensees who are under 21. It wouldn't be difficult, especially since CHLs have the licensee's DOB on them. But no, Washington just has a blanket refusal to recognize any Texas CHLs.

Craptacular fucked around with this message at 16:26 on Oct 3, 2014

Butch Cassidy
Jul 28, 2010



Please put this vital skill-honing drill in the O.P.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phKngZk7b5w

TIA

Bummey
May 26, 2004

you are a filth wizard, friend only to the grumpig and the rattata


Bigass Moth posted:

Great OP, thank you for putting it together so thoroughly and quickly!

This .380 ammo was suggested as the top performer in the old thread. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOwCXXpEP50 Has anyone here tried it? I've never even heard of this company (Precision One).

I've been in contact with them for about four months, and missed out on the first resupply of ammo in early September. SOON. Two or three more weeks until they get their new shipment from Hornady, they say.

I'd like to shoot this P238 eventually.

Blight Runner
May 3, 2009


Crunkjuice posted:

As a fellow Texan, how does getting an out of state chl for Florida or another state work?

I got a non-resident Utah license which covers pretty much all the states I care to visit. This one requires you find a Utah certified instructor to teach you the curriculum (will also need passport photo, fingerprint cards, and passing the shooting portion). Afterwards they will sign your application, include the $51 and you send it out.

infrared35
Jan 12, 2005

border patrol qt


Plaster Town Cop

Some of my carry rigs, past and present:

Model 625PC in a Hoffner's IWB:





Glock 35 in a Kolbeson Leatherworks hybrid IWB:





HK P2000 in a Raven ACR IWB:





Model 638 in a Blackhawk leather IWB:





HK P2000 in a Raven Phantom LC OWB:





SIG P229R in a Don Hume Agent 711 OWB:





HK USP .40 in an Aker Flatsider, Beretta 96D in a Dillon Master, SIG P229R in a Raven Phantom LC, and HK P2000 in a Gould & Goodrich somethingorother:





S&W Shield in a Blackhawk pocket holster:





SIG P226 in a Kaluban Cloak OWB:





Seecamp LWS-32 with an Aker pocket holster:





Colt Comp Commander in a Comp-Tac CTAC:





SIG P225 in a Comp-Tac CTAC:





HK P2000 in a Comp-Tac CTAC:





Model 10 in a Don Hume JIT Slide:





SIG P229R in a Crossbreed Supertuck:





Manurhin Walther PP in a Bianchi #19:





STI Spartan 9mm in a Galco Conealable OWB:





Glock 26 with a Glok-Klip ():





SIG P220R Carry in a Raven Phantom LC:





Model 19 in a Gould & Goodrich somethingorother:





.38/44 Heavy Duty in a Triple K crossdraw:





Model 586 with a Dillon Master:





...and those are just the small minority that I have photos for.

infrared35 fucked around with this message at 17:07 on Oct 3, 2014

Parts Kit
Jun 9, 2006

durr
i have a hole in my head
durr


Any interest in size comparison photos? I can do a g42 v g26, and can prob pester drav to let me borrow a g17 too.

infrared35
Jan 12, 2005

border patrol qt


Plaster Town Cop

Parts Kit posted:

Any interest in size comparison photos? I can do a g42 v g26, and can prob pester drav to let me borrow a g17 too.

Hells to the yeah. I'll do some, too!

638 on top of Ruger LCR:





Walther PPK on top of Ruger LC9:





Ruger LC9 on top of Kahr CW9:





Ruger LC9 on top of HK USP Compact:





SIG P290 on top of 638:





P290 on top of Beretta PX4 Compact:



P290 on top of Glock 22:





638 on top of 632:





638 and Beretta 85F:





638, 64, and 625:





More later.

infrared35 fucked around with this message at 19:12 on Oct 3, 2014

infrared35
Jan 12, 2005

border patrol qt


Plaster Town Cop

PPK on top of S&W Shield:





S&W 6946 on top of Glock 19:





P290 on top of LC9:





Seecamp LWS-32 on SIG P290:





SIG P226 and P229:





Phoenix Raven .25 and a banana:

king of the bongo
Apr 26, 2008

If you're brown, GET DOWN!


CZ p01- in MTAC; M&P shield in JM custom with tuckable loops; LCP in desantis nemesis.











Bummey
May 26, 2004

you are a filth wizard, friend only to the grumpig and the rattata



How's that JM Custom iwb working out for you? I had a hard time concealing my PPS with it. That little wing around back didn't conform with my body too well and, while it seemed to pull the holster in closely, I swear it pushed the grip of the pistol way the gently caress out.

Blight Runner
May 3, 2009


Gain 3 inches instantly! or how I confidently appendix carry

As mentioned in the OP, you have many options on where and how to wear your gun. Lifestyle, wardrobe, physical build, and weather will play a part in what you decide.

Who is this guy?
I'm a 5'11", 150 pound dude with a slim build. My preference is wearing tshirts and jeans for 90% of the year. In typical goony fashion, my wardrobe hasn't change much in this respect. I didn't have any intention to buy new clothing in order to carry. I'm active when I get the chance, so a carry option that didn't put me off balance yet easy to access.

This all led me to AIWB. Since the gun rests at 1:30 to 2 'o clock, it was more or less centered and I made less arm contact with the grip than say 3 or 4 'o clock. I tend to keep my hands near my pockets as it is, so gun is within reach without much movement. When drawing, I can use my offhand to pull my shirt up. My draw from the hip is slower, so this simplicity gave me confidence that I can react when I need to. When I drive, it also allows me to simply sit down and strap in. Having a gun on your hip can be uncomfortable if it doesn't sit right. I can still draw while sitting with a seatbelt across my lap. I just sweep the belt up along with the shirt so the gun can be drawn clean. I find this a big bonus for me if the car doesn't allow me to avoid conflict. This might differ from person to person, but something to consider.

Okay, I get it, you like AIWB, why aren't you shooting your dick off?
No matter the carry method you prefer, you will be served well with a quality belt and holster. A good holster will prevent the trigger from being pulled and ultimately putting extra holes in things. I prefer a hard plastic type holster. Currently using a JM Custom Kydex AIWB holster. It's my first holster and I'm super pleased with it. I've tried to flex and dryfire the gun while it was holstered. No luck. If I could punch through the holster, I probably have bigger issues than my gun going off. (Did rebar just pierce through my holster and groin? Ouch) All of this is secured with a good quality belt from Beltman. It's strong and spreads out the weight such that I can run without having to steady the gun or fear it flopping out when I jump or climb things.

Any other considerations?
The rest are little things that you should try no matter what carry method you decide on. When you convince yourself the gun is secure and won't go off in the holster, you can start taking baby steps on where you carry. Starting out, I was just doing things around the house and even carrying with an empty chamber. But having a full magazine does help with getting acclimated to having a gun on your body. Over time I moved on to a loaded chamber and wearing it whenever I left the house. Understand that since the gun is the most secure while in the holster, caution should be taken when you holster or draw a gun. There should never be a rush to holster a gun. I use my offhand to check that there are no obstructions in the holster and then slowly guide the gun into the holster. My offhand then pulls away makes sure nothing gets caught as the gun finally hits the bottom of the holster. When drawing a gun, maintain trigger discipline and don't muzzle sweep yourself and others.

Huge_Midget
Jun 6, 2002

I don't like the look of it...

I got my Indiana lifetime concealed license earlier this year and am finally starting to consider what I want to carry. I think I'm leaning towards an M&P Shield in 9mm at this point. I'm assuming most of you would advise against the model with the external safety? Also, does anyone have any experience with the APEX Tactical DCAEK kits for the shield? I've shot my brother in law's full size M&P .40 and my main complaint was the trigger feel and reset distance, so I wondered if anyone had shot a Shield with the APEX parts. Also, pocket holster recommendations for a 9mm Shield?

king of the bongo
Apr 26, 2008

If you're brown, GET DOWN!


Bummey posted:

How's that JM Custom iwb working out for you? I had a hard time concealing my PPS with it. That little wing around back didn't conform with my body too well and, while it seemed to pull the holster in closely, I swear it pushed the grip of the pistol way the gently caress out.

Same I'm gonna try to sell it at the gunshow tomorrow actually.

thermobollocks
Jul 5, 2009

GET A DILLON

Huge_Midget posted:

I got my Indiana lifetime concealed license earlier this year and am finally starting to consider what I want to carry. I think I'm leaning towards an M&P Shield in 9mm at this point. I'm assuming most of you would advise against the model with the external safety? Also, does anyone have any experience with the APEX Tactical DCAEK kits for the shield? I've shot my brother in law's full size M&P .40 and my main complaint was the trigger feel and reset distance, so I wondered if anyone had shot a Shield with the APEX parts. Also, pocket holster recommendations for a 9mm Shield?

The AEK and RAM for the full size M&Ps is night and day, excellent and easy to install. The factory trigger on the Shield is nice enough that I don't feel the need to gently caress with it, while I can still get suitable performance from it in terms of both speed and accuracy. The Shield is hella chunky, though, and most of my pants not marketed as "tactical" will not accommodate it in the pocket.

And yeah, skip the external safety if you can.

Admiral Bosch
Apr 19, 2007
Who is Admiral Aken Bosch, and what is that old scoundrel up to?

Blight Runner posted:

Gain 3 inches instantly! or how I confidently appendix carry

Part of me wishes I had bought a holster designed for appendix carry, as I spend most of my time at work driving. If I were, say, a cab driver, I probably would have gone with it.

DakianDelomast
Mar 5, 2003


The LCR 9mm has piqued my interest but it comes standard with Hogue grips which are an abomination unto mankind. Does someone make walnut or G10 grips for the LCR? Google has proved fruitless.

TopherCStone
Feb 27, 2013

I am very important and deserve your attention




I find it a little odd that an Australian company makes clothing designed around concealed carry

http://us.kakaduaustralia.com/colle...roducts/c10mj01

Juice
Jun 19, 2002



I like how he's got a death grip on the trigger while muzzingling his arm and body.

Craptacular
Jul 11, 2004



DakianDelomast posted:

The LCR 9mm has piqued my interest but it comes standard with Hogue grips which are an abomination unto mankind. Does someone make walnut or G10 grips for the LCR? Google has proved fruitless.

I don't know about walnut or G10, but I have these boot grips on my LCR. They're also made by Hogue, but they're not as rubbery as the standard grips, and they don't have finger grooves. I assume that's your problem with the standard grips. The boot grips are a little shorter too, which helps with concealment.

DeesGrandpa
Oct 21, 2009



Eagle makes wood grips for the lcr, but they always seemed weird on a mostly plastic frame. The stock grips are excellent, and I've heard good things about the Ruger boot grip

snotball007
Dec 5, 2011

Disturbing in the least.

So, the FBI is supposedly going back to 9mm. Pretty good read, explains the reasoning behind it. Pretty much condenses caliber debate.
http://loadoutroom.com/12077/fbi-go...-comes-science/

Of course this happens right when I was looking at a scandium frame e series 1911...

briefcasefullof
Sep 25, 2004
[This Space for Rent]

infrared35 posted:

Some of my carry rigs, past and present:

.38/44 Heavy Duty in a Triple K crossdraw:




Did you really?




So what are people using for spare mag carriers? I bought a Blackhawk! one (against patience and better judgement) and it sticks out like a sore thumb. It'll be fine for the car, but for carrying I'd like something that can actually conceal the mag.

Kommienzuspadt
Apr 28, 2004

U like it


Here are a variety of guns I have carried in various ways



G26 with a +2 OEM baseplate - my favorite spring/fall carry pistol



J frame with Altamont wood boot grips





Same J frame with checkered combat grips by Altamont



G17 RTF with TLR1 - I have carried this before. Usually my IDPA/gun game pistol.







A well loved Glock 19. Easily most carried pistol.

SinistralRifleman
Oct 9, 2007


TopherCStone posted:



I find it a little odd that an Australian company makes clothing designed around concealed carry

http://us.kakaduaustralia.com/colle...roducts/c10mj01

I forget where I read it years ago but a major holster maker was quoted as saying they sold more deep concealment holsters to states like New York and New Jersey than places where concealed carry was actually legal.

infrared35
Jan 12, 2005

border patrol qt


Plaster Town Cop

QuarkMartial posted:

Did you really?

Hell yes I did.

It's part of a cowboy action rig but I was playing with a bunch of different stuff for hiking with an N-frame.



quote:

So what are people using for spare mag carriers? I bought a Blackhawk! one (against patience and better judgement) and it sticks out like a sore thumb. It'll be fine for the car, but for carrying I'd like something that can actually conceal the mag.

I've got a nice matching set of kydex (a holster and a mag pouch) from TroTac to fit the Glock 19/23. The mag pouch works with any 9mm/.40/.357 Glock mag, of course, so I use it pretty much any time I'm toting a Glock.

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Juice
Jun 19, 2002



A Colt lovingly swathed in custom leather

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