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Kommienzuspadt
Apr 28, 2004

U like it


Loucks posted:

Makes me almost wish I still had a stock PA-63 to make them shoot. That DA trigger felt like dragging a 50lb cannonball through a sandpit.

Exactly.

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MrYenko
Jun 17, 2012

#2 isn't ALWAYS bad...


snotball007 posted:

Glocks in general are a utilitarian gun. Trigger, sights, and pre-Gen 4 ergonomics are the baseline for what is considered acceptable by most for the basics. It's not bad, but it's not good.

You really can't compare a revolver to a striker fired pistol when it comes to triggers. Completely different mechanics at play.

My VP9's trigger is almost as good as the worst single-action trigger I've used. (An M1917 that looks like it was recovered after thirty years at the bottom of the ocean, and has never had a lubrication more in-depth than a good soaking with spray-lube while hanging from a string in a tree.)

My VP9's trigger is much better than a Glock.

Kennebago
Nov 12, 2007

van de schande is bevrijd
hij die met walkuren rijd


MrYenko posted:

My VP9's trigger is much better than a Glock.

I went with a PPQ for a striker-fired 9mm specifically because it has a phenomenal trigger.

I shot a couple hundred rounds with my PPQ and new G26 side-by-side a couple of weeks ago and kind of came to the conclusion that "horrible Glock triggers" are mostly a myth in live fire. I could certainly tell the difference (especially in reset), and it was a little easier to look shots off with the PPQ, but it wasn't anywhere near as dramatic as had seemed in dryfire.

I walked away thinking that stock Glock triggers are fine, which is not what I expected at all.

With that said, I fully understand why people would take a nicer trigger if given the chance.

Basticle
Sep 12, 2011



I think the glock trigger itself (not the trigger pull) is uncomfortable on my dainty trigger finger.

DeesGrandpa
Oct 21, 2009



I find the stock glock trigger to be rather excellent. Maybe that's just me coming off of the NY1 adventure, but I quite like it.

thermobollocks
Jul 5, 2009

GET A DILLON

snotball007 posted:

You really can't compare a revolver to a striker fired pistol when it comes to triggers. Completely different mechanics at play.

Sure you can. A DA revolver has longer travel, longer reset, and more weight by quite a bunch. For as gross as Glock triggers are, I have never short stroked one. The operating mechanism is different, yes, but that doesn't mean the trigger gets automatic points for having more to do.

snotball007
Dec 5, 2011

Disturbing in the least.

thermobollocks posted:

Sure you can. A DA revolver has longer travel, longer reset, and more weight by quite a bunch. For as gross as Glock triggers are, I have never short stroked one. The operating mechanism is different, yes, but that doesn't mean the trigger gets automatic points for having more to do.

And apples make terrible oranges.

lite_sleepr
Jun 3, 2003

by Nyc_Tattoo


Bought a shield today it has the manual safety, but I don't mind since I can totally ignore it. Now to get a holster and belt.

thermobollocks
Jul 5, 2009

GET A DILLON

vigorous sodomy posted:

Bought a shield today it has the manual safety, but I don't mind since I can totally ignore it. Now to get a holster and belt.

Awww yeah

snotball007 posted:

And apples make terrible oranges.

Yep, measuring two systems based on measurable criteria sure is a poor way to compare them.

Butch Cassidy
Jul 28, 2010



Ground my G27 into the ground, today, while proning out with a rifle. It was very stiff coming out of my INCOG, the trigger was hilariously heavy to pull and gritty as gently caress, and I had to rip the mag out once empty. But it worked. Time to detail strip and give my trigger group and carry mags a good scrubbing.

Ran some target transitions at the range with my G42 while I was at it and continue to be completely enamored with the little bugger.

snotball007
Dec 5, 2011

Disturbing in the least.

thermobollocks posted:



Yep, measuring two systems based on measurable criteria sure is a poor way to compare them.

Then, by comparison, both triggers are terrible compared to 1911's. And most hunting/long range rifles.

Bummey
May 26, 2004

you are a filth wizard, friend only to the grumpig and the rattata


Everything feels inferior after a Geissele *or whatever comparable tuned trigger you're going to come in and gotcha with*. Deal with it and stop being a complainin' babby when it's barely warranted.

Bummey fucked around with this message at 02:43 on Oct 12, 2014

Dr Ozziemandius
Apr 28, 2011

Ozzie approves

Bummey posted:

Everything feels inferior after a Geissele *or whatever comparable tuned trigger you're going to come in and gotcha with*. Deal with it and stop being a complainin' babby when it's barely warranted.


ShitheadDeluxe
May 14, 2007



"Decadent capitalist swine use 2 triggers for half kilo pull. We will show strength of socialist efficiency with single trigger, 13 kilos pull!" -Comblock firearms engineer.

Nomenclature
Jul 20, 2006

You can outrun the IRS, but you can't outrun your sister's love.

Bummey posted:

Everything feels inferior after a Geissele *or whatever comparable tuned trigger you're going to come in and gotcha with*. Deal with it and stop being a complainin' babby when it's barely warranted.
For the price, I was thoroughly unimpressed with my Geissele SSA-E, especially considering it wasn't objectively better than any of my Mini-14 triggers after a few minutes of stoning.

Basticle
Sep 12, 2011



http://mousegunaddict.blogspot.com/...kit-review.html

quote:

After shooting the demonstration video, I sent quite a few more rounds downrange using the MagGuts converted magazine with the G42 loaded to 7+1 capacity. Rain cut my practice session short, but I'm comfortable and confident that the converted magazine can be used as my carry magazine.

briefcasefullof
Sep 25, 2004
[This Space for Rent]

Hands down, worst trigger I've shot is a FEG Hi Power, in DA. It took everything I had to pull the trigger. It had to be 20+ lbs and it was gritty, making it nigh impossible to pull. The Nagant revolver I handled at a gun show some time later felt like butter in comparison.


NosmoKing posted:

Personally, I put a Ruger LCP .380 in my pocket holster with some gold dots and call it good enough.

I hate to beat a dead horse in a way, but... This resonated with me and I think I've settled on doing this. Going to dump some money into what I've got (Glock 17 and LCP) before running out and buying something else (j-frame). I had my G17 on yesterday when we went out to eat at the end of our road trip. People had to see it because it (at least it feels like) it really prints, but no one said anything about it. Dumping more range time into what I've got is a lot cheaper than buying something else, and probably a better idea anyway, so I'm doing that for now.

lite_sleepr
Jun 3, 2003

by Nyc_Tattoo


QuarkMartial posted:

Hands down, worst trigger I've shot is a FEG Hi Power, in DA. It took everything I had to pull the trigger. It had to be 20+ lbs and it was gritty, making it nigh impossible to pull. The Nagant revolver I handled at a gun show some time later felt like butter in comparison.


I hate to beat a dead horse in a way, but... This resonated with me and I think I've settled on doing this. Going to dump some money into what I've got (Glock 17 and LCP) before running out and buying something else (j-frame). I had my G17 on yesterday when we went out to eat at the end of our road trip. People had to see it because it (at least it feels like) it really prints, but no one said anything about it. Dumping more range time into what I've got is a lot cheaper than buying something else, and probably a better idea anyway, so I'm doing that for now.

Sell the huge rear end glock 17 for money into either ammo for your LCP or for money down on your J Frame.

Pimp Drakula
Oct 12, 2013



QuarkMartial posted:

Hands down, worst trigger I've shot is a FEG Hi Power, in DA. It took everything I had to pull the trigger. It had to be 20+ lbs and it was gritty, making it nigh impossible to pull. The Nagant revolver I handled at a gun show some time later felt like butter in comparison.

Ha-haaaa, hoooly poo poo. I had figured that was just the "subcompact" Hi-Power mutant baby P9RZ we got from my grandma, but it seems even the direct Hi-Power ripoffs are affected. Far and away the worst trigger of any firearm I've ever held, it's like dragging a boat anchor tied to your index finger with fishing line through quicksand.

Parts Kit
Jun 9, 2006

durr
i have a hole in my head
durr


Yeah for bad triggers I think my P64 as it came to me wins out. The DA pull was so bad that I could not pull it all the way. SA was fine, and after some major cleaning DA worked, but was still super hard to pull.

If forced to choose only one gun between that P64 and a Lorcin I'd take the Lorcin.

rifles
Oct 8, 2007
is this thing working

Parts Kit posted:

Yeah for bad triggers I think my P64 as it came to me wins out. The DA pull was so bad that I could not pull it all the way. SA was fine, and after some major cleaning DA worked, but was still super hard to pull.

If forced to choose only one gun between that P64 and a Lorcin I'd take the Lorcin.

I have held in my hands a 9mm Lorcin that exploded from a round of WWB in my great uncle's hand the first time he tried to fire it.

Parts Kit
Jun 9, 2006

durr
i have a hole in my head
durr


rifles posted:

I have held in my hands a 9mm Lorcin that exploded from a round of WWB in my great uncle's hand the first time he tried to fire it.
Still would.

Sixgun Strumpet
Feb 16, 2009

Heh, yeah, 'round here I call myself The Enabler. I suspect pretty much everyone wishes they could be me -- I'm kind of a big deal, you see.


vigorous sodomy posted:

Are they really? I mean they have little baby grips that are made for child hands or someone missing 1/3 of their hand, heavy rear end double action trigger pulls, literally half the ammo capacity of any modern pistol, I can't fathom anyone considering firing the gun out of their pocket, and I don't know what a contact shot is so

Concealed carry has more considerations then just ammo capacity and comfort when shooting.

I carried automatics until I bought my current carry gun, that bobbed hammer 1985 model 60. Once I tried carrying that I knew there was no going back to seen auto because the thing is so dang comfortable to carry. Its not a hassle art all.

Once I had grips on it that filled in the front strap for my big hands, and I had worked my shooting arm/hand into good enough shape that I could hold the gun steady through a trigger pulled I was set. Accuracy is great, but it did take practice, the j frame is not a low effort gun to shoot, just to carry.

As far as putting all your fingers on the grip goes; if you have good hand strength wrapping your pinky around the base of a gun is wonderful and even addictive. Go shoot an SAA for a while like a man and you will understand.

Ammo capacity; If you are concealing a gun for that extreme off chance you will need it, odds are there will be other people around you don't want to hit. Accuracy is a lot more important then capacity. I figure if I need more then 11 shots I'm so in over my head no preparation would have helped.


Remember, this isn't a duty weapon, this is insurance. In my judgement what matters is having enough cartridge to stop someone, in a gun that I can shoot accurately, that no-one knows I have (jframes conceal like no other by the way), and most importantly that I will actually carry.

I found with autos they were such a hassle I found myself leaving the house without it, then what good is it?

thermobollocks
Jul 5, 2009

GET A DILLON

Sixgun Strumpet posted:

Remember, this isn't a duty weapon, this is insurance. In my judgement what matters is having enough cartridge to stop someone, in a gun that I can shoot accurately, that no-one knows I have (jframes conceal like no other by the way), and most importantly that I will actually carry.

I found with autos they were such a hassle I found myself leaving the house without it, then what good is it?

To an extent you will always have some competing interests at play. These are of course good points. Which autos did you try, and what didn't you like about them?

Sixgun Strumpet
Feb 16, 2009

Heh, yeah, 'round here I call myself The Enabler. I suspect pretty much everyone wishes they could be me -- I'm kind of a big deal, you see.


thermobollocks posted:

To an extent you will always have some competing interests at play. These are of course good points. Which autos did you try, and what didn't you like about them?

Kahr cw45, colt mustang, colt 1908 pocket hammerless.

Mustang was a lemon, couldn't get through a mag without jamming hard.

1908 was fantastic, and I would carry it still... If it was 1920. .380 is probably ok, but eh, I don't quite trust it.

Kahr was quite good, but I found the blocky shape to never be comfortable, and it limited what I could wear to make it disappear.

Since I have gone to the j frame a whole crop of little autos in 9mm came out, but I can't justify spending the money on one when I feel that my 200 dollar jframe is doing the job, comfortably and accurately.

Also, the j frame doesn't print like a gun, the shape is much more organic. Even if someone notices something they don't think it is a gun.

I did a dumb-ish thing the other day. I had to get my first drug test for work, some sort of government contract my company wants to send me to. Since I had never had one it didn't occur to me not to wear my gun. When I asked the tech what I should do with my gun she was really confused, it was all fine when I put it in the box, but even in khakis and a Hawaiian shirt she had no idea I was armed. My khar concealed like that.

In a way I think maybe the most important consideration after enough cartridge, and accuracy, is not letting anyone know you have it. Mostly so you don't make people nervous.

Yuns
Aug 19, 2000

There is an idea of a Yuns, some kind of abstraction, but there is no real me, only an entity, something illusory, and though I can hide my cold gaze and you can shake my hand and feel flesh gripping yours and maybe you can even sense our lifestyles are probably comparable: I simply am not there.


Kommienzuspadt posted:

Whenever somebody says this I immediately discount their ability and experience as a shooter.
You can feel free to discount my ability and experience but I've been shooting for around 35 years at this point. And I think I have enough experience with various triggers to know what I prefer and what works best for me.

Like others, I don't think that Glocks have particularly great triggers. Glocks are certainly utilitarian and shootable. The triggers are consistent and reset well and as such do fine running fast. However, I find their triggers spongy with a creepy break and inferior to the pistol triggers they replaced. Even the 3rd gen Smith triggers whether SAO or DA/SA are crisp with a fast short reset. The Glocks replaced the Smiths but I don't believe that the quality of trigger was the primary reason why. I've also shot plenty of DA revolvers and even though I'm not a fan of revolvers, I find them easier to shoot accurately versus Glocks although split times might be better with the Glock. The DA revolver triggers are a matter of personal preference but for me the best DA revolver triggers are smooth linear non-stacking triggers without a hitch before the break. Glocks do very well at action pistol disciplines which are closer to what skillset you might need for self defense but are not exactly lighting the bullseye disciplines on fire.

In the end, Glocks do fine in self defense situations but part of CCW is practicing and if you find it less pleasant to shoot, why subject yourself to that instead of shooting what you prefer so long as it's reliable and appropriate for carry.

Yuns fucked around with this message at 22:29 on Oct 13, 2014

thermobollocks
Jul 5, 2009

GET A DILLON

Sixgun Strumpet posted:

I did a dumb-ish thing the other day. I had to get my first drug test for work, some sort of government contract my company wants to send me to. Since I had never had one it didn't occur to me not to wear my gun. When I asked the tech what I should do with my gun she was really confused, it was all fine when I put it in the box, but even in khakis and a Hawaiian shirt she had no idea I was armed. My khar concealed like that.

They want you to piss in front of them or some poo poo?

Sixgun Strumpet
Feb 16, 2009

Heh, yeah, 'round here I call myself The Enabler. I suspect pretty much everyone wishes they could be me -- I'm kind of a big deal, you see.


thermobollocks posted:

They want you to piss in front of them or some poo poo?

Close, empty all your pockets into a lockbox and go into a restroom with them waiting outside and you have to come out with warm urine. It was a new experience for me. Everywhere I have ever worked has never drug tested, mostly because they would half to fire half or more of the company if they did.

snotball007
Dec 5, 2011

Disturbing in the least.

thermobollocks posted:

They want you to piss in front of them or some poo poo?

If it's like my drug test, you have to empty your pockets and get rid of anything on your person besides clothes. They put your items in a lock box and give you the key. Then you are given a specimen cup and taken to a bathroom that has all the water shut off. The toilet also has a chemical dye dropped in it as well (if you are desperate enough to try and add toilet water to dilute the sample). Afterwards, you return the specimen cup, wash your hands (like a normal loving human being should), and retrieve said items from the locked box.

Edit: Sixgun, it was the same for me. Now I get drug tested at least once a year + randoms.

briefcasefullof
Sep 25, 2004
[This Space for Rent]

Oddly enough, to be a teacher in my current county, I didn't have to pass a drug test*. Had to pass one to work retail, though. Went in, peed in a toilet, and was told not to flush.


*Administrators have authority to take you to be drug tested if you show up acting funny.

Doctor Grape Ape
Aug 26, 2005

Dammit Doc, I just bought this for you 3 months ago. Try and keep it around for a bit longer this time.


QuarkMartial posted:

Had to pass one to work retail, though. Went in, peed in a toilet, and was told not to flush.

...how the gently caress does that work?

And these doctors aren't using enough imagination if they're just taking poo poo from your pockets. Just hide your fake piss on your leg with a tube going to your pecker. Haven't you nerds ever seen Gattaca? of course not, nobody has seen Gattaca

snotball007
Dec 5, 2011

Disturbing in the least.

Doctor Grape Ape posted:

...how the gently caress does that work?

And these doctors aren't using enough imagination if they're just taking poo poo from your pockets. Just hide your fake piss on your leg with a tube going to your pecker. Haven't you nerds ever seen Gattaca? of course not, nobody has seen Gattaca

The difference is getting it to keep the proper temperature. Plus these aren't just testing with a cheap strip. At least mine are sent away for chromatography. It's to the extent that the tests will also notify me if I become a diabetic.

Edit: I have seen Gattaca and that's why I always sweep my skin cells up

snotball007 fucked around with this message at 00:13 on Oct 14, 2014

briefcasefullof
Sep 25, 2004
[This Space for Rent]

Doctor Grape Ape posted:

...how the gently caress does that work?

And these doctors aren't using enough imagination if they're just taking poo poo from your pockets. Just hide your fake piss on your leg with a tube going to your pecker. Haven't you nerds ever seen Gattaca? of course not, nobody has seen Gattaca

No idea, and scrubbing myself clean in my furnace is the only way to be clean.

my turn in the barrel
Dec 31, 2007



snotball007 posted:

The difference is getting it to keep the proper temperature. Plus these aren't just testing with a cheap strip. At least mine are sent away for chromatography. It's to the extent that the tests will also notify me if I become a diabetic.

Edit: I have seen Gattaca and that's why I always sweep my skin cells up

There's an app for that.

http://www.detoxforless.com/urine-t...-fake-penis.asp

snotball007
Dec 5, 2011

Disturbing in the least.


It's easier not to do drugs than to wear a fake dick every day that I work in case of a random drug test

Doctor Grape Ape
Aug 26, 2005

Dammit Doc, I just bought this for you 3 months ago. Try and keep it around for a bit longer this time.


snotball007 posted:

It's easier not to do drugs than to wear a fake dick every day that I work in case of a random drug test

And you don't want to be printing at work anyway.

Basticle
Sep 12, 2011



Doctor Grape Ape posted:

And you don't want to be printing at work anyway.

thermobollocks
Jul 5, 2009

GET A DILLON




Mine was six years ago and waaaaay more laid-back evidently. The only stricter ones I'd heard about involved a labbie who actually had to watch your plumbing, for parolees and poo poo.

DeesGrandpa
Oct 21, 2009



Yeah my tests (including federal employment) were just go into the bathroom, pee into the cup, hand cup back. A better life.

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Sixgun Strumpet
Feb 16, 2009

Heh, yeah, 'round here I call myself The Enabler. I suspect pretty much everyone wishes they could be me -- I'm kind of a big deal, you see.


So, I really didn't intend for this derail, my anecdote was really more about j frame superiority.

Because they rule.

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