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Toshokan
Apr 11, 2008
Prepare yourself for some obtuse logic--->


The Automator posted:

You can call up a defense lawyers office, ask the person who answers the phone if they do self defense cases, then just put the number in your wallet. If you aren’t paying a lawyer they’re not going to answer at 11 pm but you can certainly leave a message

If you want a lawyer to pick up the phone when you call, you pay a retainer which is basically an advance on an attorneys time.

This is why you call your family and have them call the lawyer. You get one phone call (this is true, because I've seen it on TV and in movies), but they get as many as they want until they get a lawyer who can go represent you.


lite_sleepr posted:

I signed up for USCCA. $47 a month for what is basically legal fees paid up to $2.5mil. That's better than trying to come up with $10k for a retainer.

That's incorrect.

https://www.deltadefense.com/offers/60369396ed025/join-the-uscca-today?tID=5f6e270aea094

quote:

Claims Coverage
Self-Defense Liability
Insurance for Claims
Expenses & Damages
$2,000,000 Each Claim Limit

$750 Per Day for Loss of Earnings (Subject to Each Claim Limit)

Defense Coverage
Self-Defense Liability
Insurance for Defense
Expenses
$250,000 Defense Expense Limit


$6,000 Incidental Expense Limit (Subject to Defense Expense Limit)

$50,000 Cost of Bail Bond Limit (Subject to Defense Expense Limit)

The $2 million is for civil claims against you, i.e., if the person you shoot or their next of kin sue you for wrongful death, like how Ron Goldman's family sued OJ after he was acquitted at the criminal trial.

They only cover up to $250,000 for legal fees. Kayla Giles, the woman currently suing USCCA in federal court for the remaining $100,000 of her policy, spent more than $150,000 in pre-trial legal expenses. Yes, $250,000 is substantially more than $150,000, but a murder trial is going to be super expensive and likely going to be more than that $250,000 limit. More importantly, the reason that she is suing USCCA is that they refused to pay because they reviewed her case after giving her $50,000 and denied her claim. They said that her case didn't meet the policy's definition and criteria for self-defense that would warrant the payout. Yes, her case is super hosed up and suspect, but I don't know that I would buy insurance for that much money from a company with such relatively low payout maximums and policies under which they could renege on paying you if they decide later that they don't think you qualify.

Yes, other organizations like the Armed Citizens Legal Defense Network have similar policies about reviewing cases before they'll pay out for your bail, defense, etc. but they're much cheaper (~$100/year) and AFAIK don't seem to have any max payout.

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lite_sleepr
Jun 3, 2003




Yes, I got the two mixed up. My mistake.

The USCCA is pretty clear that they won't defend you/pay you if your case isn't deemed legal or otherwise shady.

In any case, perhaps I should reevaluate this. I'm looking for a CCW insurance provider that will behave like auto insurance: in the event of a defensive shooting, the company will foot the bill for legal fees associated with my defense. USCAA seemed to provide exactly that, while most others just offered a network of defense lawyers you can call, but doesn't help you monetarily in any way.

lite_sleepr fucked around with this message at 23:27 on Mar 25, 2021

Somebody Awful
Nov 27, 2011

BORN TO DIE
HAIG IS A FUCK
Kill Em All 1917
I am trench man
410,757,864,530 SHELLS FIRED




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=me60gWzbMXw

TIL a stun gun hurts less than a blunt training knife.

knuthgrush
Jun 25, 2008

Be brave; clench fists.



lite_sleepr posted:

Yes, I got the two mixed up. My mistake.

The USCCA is pretty clear that they won't defend you/pay you if your case isn't deemed legal or otherwise shady.

In any case, perhaps I should reevaluate this. I'm looking for a CCW insurance provider that will behave like auto insurance: in the event of a defensive shooting, the company will foot the bill for legal fees associated with my defense. USCAA seemed to provide exactly that, while most others just offered a network of defense lawyers you can call, but doesn't help you monetarily in any way.

Yeah curious about this as well. I joined the USCCA for the same reason and it's the sort of thing I alluded to earlier. The ACLDN seemed interesting as a no-frills approach but if they end up with a bunch of cases all at once, someone's bound to be SOL.

Captain Log
Oct 2, 2006

Captain Log posted:

"I AINT DYING! Choo choo motherfucker!"




Somebody Awful posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=me60gWzbMXw

TIL a stun gun hurts less than a blunt training knife.

That is loving awesome!!!

Gonna possibly throw some cash in their direction for that. Debunking bullshit in self defense, doubly so the utter bullshit “women” products often deceptively marketed toward them, is so important.

10 out of 10, would watch again.

(I’d still let most anyone try and wail on my crippled rear end with self defense keychains to prove a point.)

Toshokan
Apr 11, 2008
Prepare yourself for some obtuse logic--->


Captain Log posted:

That is loving awesome!!!

Gonna possibly throw some cash in their direction for that. Debunking bullshit in self defense, doubly so the utter bullshit “women” products often deceptively marketed toward them, is so important.

10 out of 10, would watch again.

(I’d still let most anyone try and wail on my crippled rear end with self defense keychains to prove a point.)

Any time you reference being crippled all I can think of "Get that man some bionic legs, he's got birbs to care for!"

Captain Log
Oct 2, 2006

Captain Log posted:

"I AINT DYING! Choo choo motherfucker!"




Toshokan posted:

Any time you reference being crippled all I can think of "Get that man some bionic legs, he's got birbs to care for!"

Just give it another ten years or so.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6fefs9rOBY

Pennywise the Frown
May 10, 2010



Upset Trowel

Page 420... heh.

Due to the last few pages I found a lawyer near me that specializes in gun charges and put that number in my phone. I'd like to have a defense lawyer on hand for lots of stuff anyway. I'm always terrified of the police arresting me on some bullshit charge so it feels nice to finally have a number I can call. I've been wanting to do this for years.

tarlibone
Aug 1, 2014

Am I a... bad person?
AM I??





Fun Shoe

Bicycling time is here again.

Right now, if I bring along a pewpew, I put it in the bag that rides on the rack above my rear tire. I can remove this and carry it around like a weird-rear end purse if I make a stop and don't want to leave it unattended, but that's... awkward. It looks like I'm carrying a smurf's nylon-constructed Airstream trailer around.

I've asked this before: what are good carry options for people whose clothes are too light for a steel-framed snubbie? Holsters and such are pretty much out of the question; I need a bag.

Can men carry purses yet?

Someone had a chest pack that looked promising, but maybe a bit much. What about a fanny pack that I can sling over my shoulder?

I know I can go on Midway or Amazon and look around, but I would love input from people who carry while on bicycles. And I have no delusions about gunfights on two wheels. If I'm mugged by armed assailants while out for a ride, I'm pretty sure they'll get the drop on me. I'm not concerned with something that, for an extra $300, puts my gun in my hand 1/4th of a second quicker as I'm riding. Access is important, but I'm not a bicycle gun ninja.

poeticoddity
Jan 14, 2007
"How nice - to feel nothing and still get full credit for being alive." - Kurt Vonnegut Jr. - Slaughterhouse Five

tarlibone posted:

Bicycling time is here again.

Right now, if I bring along a pewpew, I put it in the bag that rides on the rack above my rear tire. I can remove this and carry it around like a weird-rear end purse if I make a stop and don't want to leave it unattended, but that's... awkward. It looks like I'm carrying a smurf's nylon-constructed Airstream trailer around.

I've asked this before: what are good carry options for people whose clothes are too light for a steel-framed snubbie? Holsters and such are pretty much out of the question; I need a bag.

Can men carry purses yet?

Someone had a chest pack that looked promising, but maybe a bit much. What about a fanny pack that I can sling over my shoulder?

I know I can go on Midway or Amazon and look around, but I would love input from people who carry while on bicycles. And I have no delusions about gunfights on two wheels. If I'm mugged by armed assailants while out for a ride, I'm pretty sure they'll get the drop on me. I'm not concerned with something that, for an extra $300, puts my gun in my hand 1/4th of a second quicker as I'm riding. Access is important, but I'm not a bicycle gun ninja.

I've been happy with the Smart Carry and G26 combo I have for the gym, which is the only time I'm outside of my home without a belt.

Beardless
Aug 12, 2011

I am Centurion Titus Polonius. And the only trouble I've had is that nobody seem to realize that I'm their superior officer.


tarlibone posted:

Bicycling time is here again.

Right now, if I bring along a pewpew, I put it in the bag that rides on the rack above my rear tire. I can remove this and carry it around like a weird-rear end purse if I make a stop and don't want to leave it unattended, but that's... awkward. It looks like I'm carrying a smurf's nylon-constructed Airstream trailer around.

I've asked this before: what are good carry options for people whose clothes are too light for a steel-framed snubbie? Holsters and such are pretty much out of the question; I need a bag.

Can men carry purses yet?

Someone had a chest pack that looked promising, but maybe a bit much. What about a fanny pack that I can sling over my shoulder?

I know I can go on Midway or Amazon and look around, but I would love input from people who carry while on bicycles. And I have no delusions about gunfights on two wheels. If I'm mugged by armed assailants while out for a ride, I'm pretty sure they'll get the drop on me. I'm not concerned with something that, for an extra $300, puts my gun in my hand 1/4th of a second quicker as I'm riding. Access is important, but I'm not a bicycle gun ninja.

Hill People Gear makes a variety of carry-oriented chest packs, and they also have a fanny pack.

Captain Log
Oct 2, 2006

Captain Log posted:

"I AINT DYING! Choo choo motherfucker!"




tarlibone posted:

Bicycling time is here again.

Right now, if I bring along a pewpew, I put it in the bag that rides on the rack above my rear tire. I can remove this and carry it around like a weird-rear end purse if I make a stop and don't want to leave it unattended, but that's... awkward. It looks like I'm carrying a smurf's nylon-constructed Airstream trailer around.

I've asked this before: what are good carry options for people whose clothes are too light for a steel-framed snubbie? Holsters and such are pretty much out of the question; I need a bag.

Can men carry purses yet?

Someone had a chest pack that looked promising, but maybe a bit much. What about a fanny pack that I can sling over my shoulder?

I know I can go on Midway or Amazon and look around, but I would love input from people who carry while on bicycles. And I have no delusions about gunfights on two wheels. If I'm mugged by armed assailants while out for a ride, I'm pretty sure they'll get the drop on me. I'm not concerned with something that, for an extra $300, puts my gun in my hand 1/4th of a second quicker as I'm riding. Access is important, but I'm not a bicycle gun ninja.

What gun?

lite_sleepr
Jun 3, 2003




Are you wearing an appropriate jersey with the 3 pouches on the back of it? I used to throw my Shield into a really grippy pocket holster and just put it in the left or right pouch. Center pouch was for gel packs and water bottles.

Captain Log
Oct 2, 2006

Captain Log posted:

"I AINT DYING! Choo choo motherfucker!"




There are also great options for when space if a premium. Here is my P3AT with one of my wallets. (I carry two. If you ever get robbed, you'll learn why.)



tarlibone
Aug 1, 2014

Am I a... bad person?
AM I??





Fun Shoe


Unless it's Comedy Option Revolver Day (like my models 686 or 10), it's usually my Taurus 605, which is essentially a steel J-frame 357 revolver. Two-inch barrel. My main carry gun is the M&P 9c, but it's a little big for bike day. I can squeeze the snubby into the little pouch on my phone holder thing (located on the main frame tube).

Mt attire is generally a gym shirt, the moisture- wicking, fast-drying kind, and shorts made of similar material. Even the weight of a wallet in my pocket flops around horribly in those, so some kind of pack is what I'm interested in. I don't have clothes specific to biking.

I will look at Smart Carry and whatever Lothar's hill people have.

Captain Log
Oct 2, 2006

Captain Log posted:

"I AINT DYING! Choo choo motherfucker!"




tarlibone posted:

Unless it's Comedy Option Revolver Day (like my models 686 or 10), it's usually my Taurus 605, which is essentially a steel J-frame 357 revolver. Two-inch barrel. My main carry gun is the M&P 9c, but it's a little big for bike day. I can squeeze the snubby into the little pouch on my phone holder thing (located on the main frame tube).

Mt attire is generally a gym shirt, the moisture- wicking, fast-drying kind, and shorts made of similar material. Even the weight of a wallet in my pocket flops around horribly in those, so some kind of pack is what I'm interested in. I don't have clothes specific to biking.

I will look at Smart Carry and whatever Lothar's hill people have.

I have a S&W 640 that gets carried when I'm feeling fancy. But I can tell you this - in my experience they don't pocket carry for poo poo, compared to a thin micro gun. Even in a good holster in a tight pocket, they have a tendency to shift around, being butt heavy which makes them want to flop around.

Seems like it would be a hard choice for biking attire, but that's just my two cents.

rifles
Oct 8, 2007
is this thing working

Captain Log posted:

I have a S&W 640 that gets carried when I'm feeling fancy. But I can tell you this - in my experience they don't pocket carry for poo poo, compared to a thin micro gun. Even in a good holster in a tight pocket, they have a tendency to shift around, being butt heavy which makes them want to flop around.

Seems like it would be a hard choice for biking attire, but that's just my two cents.

Seconding this with an LCR .357 magnum: I've never comfortably pocket carried it. I have an LCP for that and it sits in my pocket and looks/feels like a wallet. The LCR is the best appendix carry gun I have though, there's no sharp/jagged lines on it to poke anywhere.

pantslesswithwolves
Oct 27, 2008

Ba-dam ba-DUMMMMMM


Consider getting a hip pack (Fanny pack for people who don’t care about being cool) and carrying in there. They’re unobtrusive and increasingly in vogue with cyclists, especially mountain bikers, and you won’t be carrying off body or visibly printing.

I’m a fan of Nittany Mountain Works. Get it in some garish neon colors and it’s the least tacticlol thing ever. But realistically a hip belt from DaKine or Osprey will also be fine.

stealie72
Jan 10, 2007

Their eyes locked and suddenly there was the sound of breaking glass.


Some fun in my little rural community today.

Some guys came to test drive a dirt bike a local was selling on FB marketplace. Guy doing the test driving takes off on the bike, and his two buddies pile into their vehicle and take off. High speed chase ensues, they hit 90MPH on a two lane county road, the town cops lay down spike strips, the guys run and get captured one by one hiding--including one guy in a booth at a local pizza place, it's the most exiting thing to happen in my county since COVID came.

The sheriff posts about it on their facebook page with some pictures and a "you can always use our parking lot for a sale because people can be sketchy" warning.

In the writeup, he mentioned that the homeowner is a CCW and fired a shot into the air and into the car of the two dudes taking off. This gets some negative reactions. Cue a bunch of facebook cowboys talking about how they hope he doesn't face any charges, and if those guys tried that poo poo with them they'd blast them to hell and back, and, and, and.

No real point, except to once again gripe that gun owners are the worst loving brand to represent.

tarlibone
Aug 1, 2014

Am I a... bad person?
AM I??





Fun Shoe

pantslesswithwolves posted:

Consider getting a hip pack (Fanny pack for people who don’t care about being cool) and carrying in there. They’re unobtrusive and increasingly in vogue with cyclists, especially mountain bikers, and you won’t be carrying off body or visibly printing.

I’m a fan of Nittany Mountain Works. Get it in some garish neon colors and it’s the least tacticlol thing ever. But realistically a hip belt from DaKine or Osprey will also be fine.

Now that is pretty cool. A fanny pack worn over the fanny so it has to be called something else? I like it. I wonder if I can swing it around to the front or side for when we stop at a bar or something. And it's nice and big, so my wallet, keys, phone, etc. won't be flopping around in my pockets.

knuthgrush
Jun 25, 2008

Be brave; clench fists.



tarlibone posted:

Bicycling time is here again.

Right now, if I bring along a pewpew, I put it in the bag that rides on the rack above my rear tire. I can remove this and carry it around like a weird-rear end purse if I make a stop and don't want to leave it unattended, but that's... awkward. It looks like I'm carrying a smurf's nylon-constructed Airstream trailer around.

I've asked this before: what are good carry options for people whose clothes are too light for a steel-framed snubbie? Holsters and such are pretty much out of the question; I need a bag.

Can men carry purses yet?

Someone had a chest pack that looked promising, but maybe a bit much. What about a fanny pack that I can sling over my shoulder?

I know I can go on Midway or Amazon and look around, but I would love input from people who carry while on bicycles. And I have no delusions about gunfights on two wheels. If I'm mugged by armed assailants while out for a ride, I'm pretty sure they'll get the drop on me. I'm not concerned with something that, for an extra $300, puts my gun in my hand 1/4th of a second quicker as I'm riding. Access is important, but I'm not a bicycle gun ninja.

Hill people gear was mentioned. For something less tacticool, maybe the 5.11 LV6? Yes, it's 5.11 but it doesn't stick out too much. I wear one daily and it seems to work. Was fine on my bike but I prefer a backpack. It'll fit a pistol or other stuff, typically not both at the same time. Also not likely to fit a pistol with an optic unless it's a wee one. It'll fit a Glock 43x or a k-frame revolver. Not sure about bigger stuff. It has a bonus secret pocket, too!

infrared35
Jan 12, 2005

border patrol qt


Plaster Town Cop

tarlibone posted:

I will look at Smart Carry and whatever Lothar's hill people have.

This is a pro reference.

lite_sleepr
Jun 3, 2003




A smart carry would be turbo uncomfortable while riding a bike.

tarlibone
Aug 1, 2014

Am I a... bad person?
AM I??





Fun Shoe

lite_sleepr posted:

A smart carry would be turbo uncomfortable while riding a bike.

Yeah, I looked it up. They should call it That Scene In Goodfellas Where Mrs. Goodfella Hides The Gun When The Cops Bust In Toward The End Of The Movie Carry.

I can see it now.

"Hey, mister, stick 'em up! This is a stickup! Now hand me your wallet?"

... isn't that redundant? If it's a stick-up, don't I stick my hands up? Isn't that what makes it a stick-up? And is it the 19th century or something? Who says "stickup??"

"I'm bringing it back, rear end in a top hat! Now get those hands up! Give me your wallet! And... and your phone!"

OK... how can I do that if my hands are up?

"Nevermind the hands... just give me your stuff! I have a gun! Stop messing with me!"



Cut to me reaching into my pants and initiating a citizen-involved shooting. The robber dies. Doctors say he laughed himself to death after I shot off my penis and balls.

charliebravo77
Jun 11, 2003



I use either a belly band style holster, Hill People Gear Snubby kit bag or a rear jersey pocket and pocket holster if I want to carry while riding.

Uncle Lizard
Sep 28, 2012


Edit: Wrong thread

Captain Log
Oct 2, 2006

Captain Log posted:

"I AINT DYING! Choo choo motherfucker!"




charliebravo77 posted:

I use either a belly band style holster, Hill People Gear Snubby kit bag or a rear jersey pocket and pocket holster if I want to carry while riding.

I'm not likely to ever use one but have a question - are those comfortable? Feels like they would be a sweat magnet.

tarlibone
Aug 1, 2014

Am I a... bad person?
AM I??





Fun Shoe

I got a hip pack from Nittnany Mountain Works because it's big, it's colorful, and it looks like it'll do exactly what I want. Sure, it doesn't have a purpose-built area for a gun, but I can put a gun in a holster and slide it in the main pocket with no problem. And also my phone, keys, etc.

I don't carry a micro-gun, like the LCPII. In fact, I have to send that one my wife has to Ruger; Mrs. T's lil' popper drops the magazine when fired almost every time now. I even had other folks at the range try it. We could get it to function without dropping the mag by not letting any of our fingers touch the magazine extension, but this means you're holding it with your index and middle fingers only (ring finger touches the extension), and that's horrible.

I believe my new bag thing will be here in a couple weeks or so. I didn't go all 1980s neon dayglo with it, sorry to say, but I didn't go faux tacticool with 4 different flavors of cammo, so that's good.

charliebravo77
Jun 11, 2003



Captain Log posted:

I'm not likely to ever use one but have a question - are those comfortable? Feels like they would be a sweat magnet.

The belly band? It's not terrible. Definitely soaks up sweat if it's warm out. The kit bag is a little better in that regard. Honestly I don't often carry a gun when biking just due to the hassle and added bulk.

poeticoddity
Jan 14, 2007
"How nice - to feel nothing and still get full credit for being alive." - Kurt Vonnegut Jr. - Slaughterhouse Five

Y'all are thinking about bike guns all wrong.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vespa_150_TAP

Problematic Soup
Feb 18, 2007

My soup has malfunctioned?





poeticoddity posted:

Y'all are thinking about bike guns all wrong.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vespa_150_TAP

Your ideas are intriguing to me, and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

tarlibone
Aug 1, 2014

Am I a... bad person?
AM I??





Fun Shoe

poeticoddity posted:

Y'all are thinking about bike guns all wrong.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vespa_150_TAP

Sadly, neither motorized vehicles nor open carry are allowed on Illinois bike trails.

Forum Hussy
Feb 8, 2005


tarlibone posted:

Sadly, neither motorized vehicles nor open carry are allowed on Illinois bike trails.

Wikipedia posted:

anti-tank scooter
Who’s gonna stop you

charliebravo77
Jun 11, 2003



tarlibone posted:

Sadly, neither motorized vehicles nor open carry are allowed on Illinois bike trails.

Buncha party poopers in this state I tell you hwhat.

infrared35
Jan 12, 2005

border patrol qt


Plaster Town Cop

tarlibone posted:

"Hey, mister, stick 'em up! This is a stickup! Now hand me your wallet?"

... isn't that redundant? If it's a stick-up, don't I stick my hands up? Isn't that what makes it a stick-up? And is it the 19th century or something? Who says "stickup??"

"I'm bringing it back, rear end in a top hat! Now get those hands up! Give me your wallet! And... and your phone!"

OK... how can I do that if my hands are up?

"Nevermind the hands... just give me your stuff! I have a gun! Stop messing with me!"

This really reminds me of the old British comedy bit, "Hand Up Your Sticks".

tarlibone
Aug 1, 2014

Am I a... bad person?
AM I??





Fun Shoe

infrared35 posted:

This really reminds me of the old British comedy bit, "Hand Up Your Sticks".

Part of it was inspired by one of the best scenes in one of my favorite gun movies, Raising Arizona.

quote:

Everybody freeze. Everybody down in the ground.

(beat) Well, which is it, young feller? You want'n I should freeze or get down on the ground? I mean, if'n freeze, I can't rightly drop; and if'n I drop, I'm-a gonna be in motion. So you see--

SHUT UP!

Pennywise the Frown
May 10, 2010



Upset Trowel

stealie72 posted:

No real point, except to once again gripe that gun owners are the worst loving brand to represent.



My CCW class instructor was a former Sheriff's deputy who was involved in a lot of self defense cases and he basically said to never use your gun unless you're going to die or get seriously injured. He said you WILL go to court even if it's 100% justified and they'll probably throw whatever charges they can on you.

That puts me in a predicament in the usual gun guy saving the day by shooting someone holding up a store. I'd just let them do it if I think no one is going to die.

Your story of shooting into a vehicle that is leaving would totally get you in trouble here since they were just stealing property. That's what insurance is for.

Pennywise the Frown fucked around with this message at 20:01 on Apr 2, 2021

lite_sleepr
Jun 3, 2003




Pennywise the Frown posted:



My CCW class instructor was a former Sheriff's deputy who was involved in a lot of self defense cases and he basically said to never use your gun unless you're going to die or get seriously injured. He said you WILL go to court even if it's 100% justified and they'll probably throw whatever charges they can on you.

That puts me in a predicament in the usual gun guy saving the day by shooting someone holding up a store. I'd just let them do it if I think no one is going to die.

Your story of shooting into a vehicle that is leaving would totally get you in trouble here since they were just stealing property. That's what insurance is for.



Are there not laws in many states that will shield you from liability while doing the 'good Samaritan' thing by saving lives during the commission of an armed felony?

The laws usually state you need to have a 'reasonable' fear for your health and safety, and at least in TX it extends to those around you. In your scenario of walking into the Dollar General which is being held up, you'd be 99% clear in defensively shooting the person doing the robbing.

Won't shield you from a civil suit, but you likely aren't going to jail/court. I'm confident the instructor was just being as conservative in his application of the use of force part of his class as possible.

22 Eargesplitten
Oct 10, 2010

Certified Centrist Trash


I'm not a lawyer, especially not a lawyer in the details of laws in all 50 states, but self-defense is generally an affirmative defense, so I'd assume defense of others is as well. Which means you still have to go to court to mount that defense.

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Captain Log
Oct 2, 2006

Captain Log posted:

"I AINT DYING! Choo choo motherfucker!"




I've always heard, even from this very forum, "Pretend each round you fire costs $10k. Because that's the minimum you'll be spending in court to defend each round you fire."

I'm not drawing unless the person breaking the law has the ability to use deadly force. Gun in a cashier's face? That probably qualifies. Homeless person demanding a twenty from the register? That's the cop's job.

But if you're in my house with me and my family, it's gonna be a bad day.

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