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Crunkjuice
Apr 4, 2007

That could've gotten in my eye!
*launches teargas at unarmed protestors*

I THINK OAKLAND PD'S USE OF EXCESSIVE FORCE WAS JUSTIFIED!


Now that Texas is most likely going constitutional carry, how is that going to affect people with licenses? Will there be any difference in carrying for someone with a license vs someone without?

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Captain Log
Oct 2, 2006

Captain Log posted:

"I AINT DYING! Choo choo motherfucker!"




Crunkjuice posted:

Now that Texas is most likely going constitutional carry, how is that going to affect people with licenses? Will there be any difference in carrying for someone with a license vs someone without?

I know this might sound paranoid, but if there is an option to get a CCW in a constitutional carry state I still would. In the awful scenario of actually needing to use my firearm, I'd want a grand jury to see I've put some effort into knowing how to carry responsibly.

Even though we all know CCW classes are pretty useless.

infrared35
Jan 12, 2005

border patrol qt


Plaster Town Cop

Captain Log posted:

I know this might sound paranoid, but if there is an option to get a CCW in a constitutional carry state I still would. In the awful scenario of actually needing to use my firearm, I'd want a grand jury to see I've put some effort into knowing how to carry responsibly.

Even though we all know CCW classes are pretty useless.

Also, a CCW in your home state may offer reciprocity in other states, where constitutional carry probably won't.

Toshokan
Apr 11, 2008
Prepare yourself for some obtuse logic--->


Is Texas still going to be a Duty to Inform state if Constitutional Carry passes?

Does anyone have any experience with this in general, not just Texas? I've (luckily) never had an encounter with law enforcement while carrying, but I'm a little paranoid about it, especially when some states have have ambiguous language in their Duty to Inform statutes about "promptly" informing them. I don't want to get screwed over or give them an excuse to gently caress with me because I forgot that I was in a duty to inform state or didn't do it "promptly" enough for the cop.

Akion
May 7, 2006


Grimey Drawer

infrared35 posted:

Also, a CCW in your home state may offer reciprocity in other states, where constitutional carry probably won't.

This would be my big reason, not that Colorado has a chance in hell of passing constitutional carry.

The Automator
Jan 16, 2009


Toshokan posted:

Is Texas still going to be a Duty to Inform state if Constitutional Carry passes?

Does anyone have any experience with this in general, not just Texas? I've (luckily) never had an encounter with law enforcement while carrying, but I'm a little paranoid about it, especially when some states have have ambiguous language in their Duty to Inform statutes about "promptly" informing them. I don't want to get screwed over or give them an excuse to gently caress with me because I forgot that I was in a duty to inform state or didn't do it "promptly" enough for the cop.

When I have told a cop itís always in the context of reaching for my wallet and such. I tell them literally everything Iím going to do before I do it anyway (Iím going to reach for my wallet now. Iím going to lean over, open my glovebox, and take out the registration). My state doesnít have a duty to inform but I do it by default in every other state. Iím just like, ďbefore I reach for my drivers license I should inform you that Iím legally carrying a firearm on that side.Ē Sometimes they havenít cared, sometimes theyíve pulled me out of the car and taken the gun off of me. One dickhead wanted to search my car and made me ďwait for a k9Ē for an hour before he sent me off with a ticket. Caring about your defense is code for drug dealer for that gently caress, I guess.

sharkytm
Oct 9, 2003

Gimme Gimme Swedish Fish...



Fallen Rib

The Automator posted:

When I have told a cop itís always in the context of reaching for my wallet and such. I tell them literally everything Iím going to do before I do it anyway (Iím going to reach for my wallet now. Iím going to lean over, open my glovebox, and take out the registration). My state doesnít have a duty to inform but I do it by default in every other state. Iím just like, ďbefore I reach for my drivers license I should inform you that Iím legally carrying a firearm on that side.Ē Sometimes they havenít cared, sometimes theyíve pulled me out of the car and taken the gun off of me. One dickhead wanted to search my car and made me ďwait for a k9Ē for an hour before he sent me off with a ticket. Caring about your defense is code for drug dealer for that gently caress, I guess.

Well, duh. Informing is exactly what a bad guy would do.

Captain Log
Oct 2, 2006

Captain Log posted:

"I AINT DYING! Choo choo motherfucker!"




Iíve been pulled over twice in my life. Once for a bullshit failure to stop at a stop sign, the other time for a legit forgetting to renew my tags. I always inform the cop Iím carrying.

The tags cop thanked me for telling him, didnít ask to see it, and let me off with a warning.

The other cop screamed for my gun, took it, pointed the barrel at my head while repeating ďwhere is the gun?Ē Because he apparently couldnít recognize a Kel Tec, left it loaded on the roof of my car while he got in his car while homeless guys walked by, then returned it to me in a baggy with the bullets removed from the mag but one left in the chamber.

Your mileage may vary.

Loucks
May 21, 2007

It's incwedibwe easy to suck my own dick.


I have been pulled over a number of times despite being a conservative driver and never, not once, have I told the cop that Iím armed because ime around here theyíre goddamn morons who I would not trust to behave appropriately. I also keep my license and registration and proof of insurance where I can grab them all and have them on the dash before the cop waddles to my window to demand my papers.

Honestly itís easier just to ride a bike if Iím going somewhere close enough. The cops will pass way too close and almost kill cyclists, but at least they donít have a hard on for pulling us over.

Also the LCP is a fantastic carry gun despite the common belief that .380 is marginal. Sometimes Iím not dressed to haul along a midsize Glock, and the LCP disappears perfectly while still being capable of ruining an attackerís day. Still P365-curious though.

e: whatís a concealed carry class? Here they just throw a lifetime license at you if youíre not a felon and pay them the $150 or whatever it is now.

Loucks fucked around with this message at 23:26 on May 6, 2021

Captain Log
Oct 2, 2006

Captain Log posted:

"I AINT DYING! Choo choo motherfucker!"




Loucks posted:

I have been pulled over a number of times despite being a conservative driver and never, not once, have I told the cop that Iím armed because ime around here theyíre goddamn morons who I would not trust to behave appropriately. I also keep my license and registration and proof of insurance where I can grab them all and have them on the dash before the cop waddles to my window to demand my papers.

Honestly itís easier just to ride a bike if Iím going somewhere close enough. The cops will pass way too close and almost kill cyclists, but at least they donít have a hard on for pulling us over.

Also the LCP is a fantastic carry gun despite the common belief that .380 is marginal. Sometimes Iím not dressed to haul along a midsize Glock, and the LCP disappears perfectly while still being capable of ruining an attackerís day. Still P365-curious though.

e: whatís a concealed carry class? Here they just throw a lifetime license at you if youíre not a felon and pay them the $150 or whatever it is now.

A lot of states have classroom requirements that are mostly useless. Tennessee (in 2008ish) required four hours class time and four hours range time. The range time, I didn't mind. Because some of these people were useless and it was a big reality check. But the classroom stuff was literally "The trigger fires the GUN" while people furiously scribbled notes.

Kansas didn't have class requirements.

Oregon and Utah required class time without range time, which is the inverse of how it should be.

Somebody Awful
Nov 27, 2011

BORN TO DIE
HAIG IS A FUCK
Kill Em All 1917
I am trench man
410,757,864,530 SHELLS FIRED




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjReSGFtUtY

What's more effective than the S333 revolver? A literal 1840s pepperbox.

Loucks
May 21, 2007

It's incwedibwe easy to suck my own dick.


Captain Log posted:

A lot of states have classroom requirements that are mostly useless. Tennessee (in 2008ish) required four hours class time and four hours range time. The range time, I didn't mind. Because some of these people were useless and it was a big reality check. But the classroom stuff was literally "The trigger fires the GUN" while people furiously scribbled notes.

Kansas didn't have class requirements.

Oregon and Utah required class time without range time, which is the inverse of how it should be.

Iíve heard of plenty of useless class/range requirements and at this point nothing is surprising anymore. Does any state have a meaningful educational/proficiency requirement at this point? It seems like it would be great to require that people have a clue what theyíre doing and know that they canít just light up the first minority who steps off the sidewalk into their yard (Texas notwithstanding), but I donít know of a state Iíd trust to implement such a thing without creating a de facto ban on ďundesirablesĒ bearing arms.

poopgiggle
Feb 7, 2006

it isn't easy being a cross dominate shooter.




It's actually possible to fail Texas' shooting test. That counts for something I suppose.

The other 2 states I've done, you just shoot 50 rounds and you're good as long as you don't do anything unsafe enough to get the instructor to fail you.

Kadath
Aug 17, 2004

Put Your 'Lectric Eye On Me, Babe

Grimey Drawer

I took an online class for Va that consisted of basically knowing the 4 rules and being able to answer a multiple choice quiz online for $20 (before the incoming democrats banned that option as part of their gun control laws). I technically could have used a hunter safety course for training credit as well, but i completed that in the mid 90s as an elementary schooler and couldn't find any online proof of completion.

Captain Log
Oct 2, 2006

Captain Log posted:

"I AINT DYING! Choo choo motherfucker!"




poopgiggle posted:

It's actually possible to fail Texas' shooting test. That counts for something I suppose.

The other 2 states I've done, you just shoot 50 rounds and you're good as long as you don't do anything unsafe enough to get the instructor to fail you.

In Tennessee you could fail, but they'd let you keep taking it until you passed or enough people left that the instructor could "coach" you to a winning score. (Scribble it down)

They let the experienced shooters go first so we could get out of there. My friend and I went first in a class of thirty something and both got a 100%. It was literally something like "Hit a silhouette at three yards" of something. I've never shot at a target that close since. There was a big dick Good Old Boy in the class who kept trying to argue with the instructor. Probably 40 years old but looked 55, gut, beat up ball cap, and sunglasses with a 'stache. Old Jim Bob insisted he should go first too, and busted out a big gently caress off .357 or .44 six inch barreled revolver.

He. Kept. Missing. Over. And. Over. I think he was on his third attempt before we left.

My buddy and I wanted to get out before he put a hole in the ceiling. He was loudly swearing about his gun being messed up. Even though it was a distance where you could have thrown the gun underhand and hit the target.

SSJ_naruto_2003
Oct 12, 2012





Man duty to inform is such stupid poo poo. The two options are you're planning on shooting a cop, in which case you announce that you have a gun by firing the gun . The other option is you're following the law, tell the cop, and they freak out yelling at you and pointing a gun at you, which happened to me

Captain Log
Oct 2, 2006

Captain Log posted:

"I AINT DYING! Choo choo motherfucker!"




SSJ_naruto_2003 posted:

Man duty to inform is such stupid poo poo. The two options are you're planning on shooting a cop, in which case you announce that you have a gun by firing the gun . The other option is you're following the law, tell the cop, and they freak out yelling at you and pointing a gun at you, which happened to me

SSJ_naruto_2003
Oct 12, 2012






Yeah, I'm not in a duty to inform state so I don't inform anymore lmao

Gray Stormy
Dec 19, 2006



Ill be adventuring to Illinois to pick up our new dog in a couple of weeks. With my Michigan license, I CAN be packing in the car but have to leave my piece in the vehicle if I get out, yes?

Ill need to unload and box it up to take it into a hotel as well?

Thelonious
Jul 15, 2005



As a fellow MI CPL holder that's how I understand it. Thankfully I've not had reason to actually stop in Illinois beyond gassing up on my way through.

Toshokan
Apr 11, 2008
Prepare yourself for some obtuse logic--->


SSJ_naruto_2003 posted:

Man duty to inform is such stupid poo poo. The two options are you're planning on shooting a cop, in which case you announce that you have a gun by firing the gun . The other option is you're following the law, tell the cop, and they freak out yelling at you and pointing a gun at you, which happened to me

That, and it gives cops another reason and discretion to gently caress with you if they want. They can just say that you didn't notify them "immediately" enough.

tarlibone
Aug 1, 2014

Am I a... bad person?
AM I??





Fun Shoe

Gray Stormy posted:

Ill be adventuring to Illinois to pick up our new dog in a couple of weeks. With my Michigan license, I CAN be packing in the car but have to leave my piece in the vehicle if I get out, yes?

Ill need to unload and box it up to take it into a hotel as well?

Here's a brochure:

https://www2.illinois.gov/dnr/hunting/Documents/TransportYourFirearmLegally.pdf

banned from Starbucks
Jul 18, 2004






Loucks posted:


e: what’s a concealed carry class? Here they just throw a lifetime license at you if you’re not a felon and pay them the $150 or whatever it is now.

In IL it's 4 hours of "don't point this end at your face or friends" and "if you ever need to defend yourself with your gun your life is over financially" then 4 hours of watching YouTube videos of people shooting themselves ( like the DEA "glock 40" guy)
Then you shoot a target big enough for Mr Magoo to 360 noscope and it's over.

charliebravo77
Jun 11, 2003



banned from Starbucks posted:

In IL it's 4 hours of "don't point this end at your face or friends" and "if you ever need to defend yourself with your gun your life is over financially" then 4 hours of watching YouTube videos of people shooting themselves ( like the DEA "glock 40" guy)
Then you shoot a target big enough for Mr Magoo to 360 noscope and it's over.

It varies a bit by instructor, but in theory there should be a base level (dictated by statute) of discussion/instruction around the legislation, safe handling, use of force discussion and live fire. The target is, indeed, giant and the qualification is 10 rounds each at 5, 7 and 10 yards. You need to hit 70% anywhere within the silhouette. In my initial qualification and renewal class there were definitely people who look like they sprayed the target with buckshot at 50 yards. Technically the instructor is supposed to count and mark each individual bullet hole I think, but I shot a ragged fist sized hole in the 9/10 ring on mine both times and they just shrugged and said "looks good to me."

infrared35
Jan 12, 2005

border patrol qt


Plaster Town Cop

In my local area we have both ends of the spectrum. Thereís one dude who teaches the absolute minimum and maybe not even that. For the live fire portion he has people shoot wax bullets in his garage. Then at the other end thereís a really good dude who is a retired corrections firearms instructor and he brings in a lawyer and they talk about the realities of law and self-defense for a good long time as well as gear selection and other things like that.

The live fire portion starts basic and gets the state mandated Qual out-of-the-way, then he gets into things like clearing malfunctions, reloading, cover vs. concealment, and shooting and moving.

Captain Log
Oct 2, 2006

Captain Log posted:

"I AINT DYING! Choo choo motherfucker!"




banned from Starbucks posted:

In IL it's 4 hours of "don't point this end at your face or friends" and "if you ever need to defend yourself with your gun your life is over financially" then 4 hours of watching YouTube videos of people shooting themselves ( like the DEA "glock 40" guy)
Then you shoot a target big enough for Mr Magoo to 360 noscope and it's over.

I still think DEA Leg Shoot Man had the most composed reaction to Glocking yourself in the leg I've ever seen.

Toshokan
Apr 11, 2008
Prepare yourself for some obtuse logic--->


banned from Starbucks posted:

In IL it's 4 hours of "don't point this end at your face or friends" and "if you ever need to defend yourself with your gun your life is over financially" then 4 hours of watching YouTube videos of people shooting themselves ( like the DEA "glock 40" guy)
Then you shoot a target big enough for Mr Magoo to 360 noscope and it's over.

Speaking of this. Are any of the insurance providers any good or worth the cost? USCCA seems to suck, both in terms of cost and coverage.

tarlibone
Aug 1, 2014

Am I a... bad person?
AM I??





Fun Shoe

banned from Starbucks posted:

In IL it's 4 hours of "don't point this end at your face or friends" and "if you ever need to defend yourself with your gun your life is over financially" then 4 hours of watching YouTube videos of people shooting themselves ( like the DEA "glock 40" guy)
Then you shoot a target big enough for Mr Magoo to 360 noscope and it's over.

I believe it's 16 hours total.

At the place I got my training completed at, after 8 hours, since that's what you need for Florida, they give you a certificate for 50% of your training and then give you the Florida non-resident info.

poeticoddity
Jan 14, 2007
"How nice - to feel nothing and still get full credit for being alive." - Kurt Vonnegut Jr. - Slaughterhouse Five

In Alabama it's $20/year for a carry pemit (and there's a bill in the house to make that a lifetime permit) and there's a form you have to fill out before they take your photo and print your card.

I spent longer filling out the form than waiting and my card was still warm when I put it in my wallet and left, less than 15 minutes after I walked in the door.

I get why people are often in favor of more stringent requirements, but I'm really glad to know that if a friend who was over 21 approached me and said, "Hey, I just got news that my psycho ex is getting released from prison tomorrow, can you help me make sure I can defend myself with more than pepper spray?," I can tell them to go (location), get a permit, and meet me somewhere so we can go over the basics, get some range time in, and swing by a gun shop that day.
I cannot imagine looking someone in the eye and saying, "You'll need to sign up for a class in two weeks," or, "The county's got to issue you a card before you can own a gun, and they'll never let you carry it."

I Demand Food
Nov 17, 2002


The requirements in CA and IL are pretty similar, so it really pisses me off that IL won't give us Californians a non-resident permit, but they'll give one to loving Texans.

Because of the training, I think the whole thing cost me around $500 the first time and a bit more than $200 at each renewal (every 2 years) but I think being regressive is intended to be a feature and not a bug of carry laws.

tarlibone
Aug 1, 2014

Am I a... bad person?
AM I??





Fun Shoe

Not going to lie, Illinois is a bitch about reciprocity.

I will say, though, that loosey-goosey "requirements" in some states kind-of force the hands of other states to some extent. I mean, I've set Florida for only about 8 days in my whole life, and for a nominal fee, minimal training with no shooting requirement, and some fingerprints, I can get a CCL from there that allows me to carry in several other states. It's nuts.

I honestly wish there was a national standard, and I think Illinois' standards at least try to make sure we're not giving ex-wife-stalking nutjobs the legal right to carry a concealed weapon. Then again, I wish Illinois would just extend the CCL offering to out-of-state folks who complete equivalent training.

They're trying to get rid of the FOID right now, so who knows what the future holds.

Captain Log
Oct 2, 2006

Captain Log posted:

"I AINT DYING! Choo choo motherfucker!"




I don't think there should be any financial barriers for licenses of any kind. But I do feel like the course that allows people to carry should be more rigorous. I've taken classes in multiple states and each one has a lot of people who demonstrate a lack of knowledge and proficiency that leave me thinking, "No way in hell that person should be able to carry." It's normally not the clueless people, it's the macho men who correct the instructor every fifth word while coming up with hypothetical situations where they would have to shoot a bunch of people while playing hero. Although those people normally don't actually know gently caress all about guns.

Wendigee
Jul 19, 2004



I haven't been contacted by the police since a fix it ticket 5 years ago for a turn signal burning out(flickering).

I'm glad I remembered to tell them not to shoot me when I got out the license they requested.

To drive a car.

You don't need one to carry a hand gun though lol. Y'all just went Kansas special. Welcome to the barracks.

Glad I took a training course, learned the laws, and had my finger prints sent to the FBI with a federal background check in order to be allowed to carry... Then Barry got elected and we decided it was more important to have more guns everywhere in case of mass shooting. Because we had a lot of mass shootings... Now 18 year olds can carry? Lololol burn this country to the ground 😂

Loucks
May 21, 2007

It's incwedibwe easy to suck my own dick.


Iím not a big USA fan either, but are you seriously arguing that 18yos shouldnít be able to have a gun and drivers shouldnít be licensed? Seems bad.

infrared35
Jan 12, 2005

border patrol qt


Plaster Town Cop

I think we should have graduated driverís licenses based on vehicle weight and horsepower. And you have to test into each level, including parallel parking.

stealie72
Jan 10, 2007

Their eyes locked and suddenly there was the sound of breaking glass.


infrared35 posted:

I think we should have graduated driver’s licenses based on vehicle weight and horsepower. And you have to test into each level, including parallel parking.


And re-testing every X years after Y age.

infrared35
Jan 12, 2005

border patrol qt


Plaster Town Cop

stealie72 posted:

And re-testing every X years after Y age.

Definitely. Canít parallel park that Suburban anymore? Time for a smaller truck, grandpa.

Captain Log
Oct 2, 2006

Captain Log posted:

"I AINT DYING! Choo choo motherfucker!"




infrared35 posted:

I think we should have graduated driverís licenses based on vehicle weight and horsepower. And you have to test into each level, including parallel parking.



loving AMEN!!!

Back in Nashville (in a state without income tax that's filled with rich assholes from all over), it's extremely common practice for the uber rich to buy their little Princes and Princesses "gently caress Off Huge" SUVs with the pretense that it will keep them safe in a wreck. AKA - I have enough money to ensure my idiot child will irresponsibly drive a tank that will kill you in a car wreck.

Toshokan
Apr 11, 2008
Prepare yourself for some obtuse logic--->


Wendigee posted:

I haven't been contacted by the police since a fix it ticket 5 years ago for a turn signal burning out(flickering).

I'm glad I remembered to tell them not to shoot me when I got out the license they requested.

To drive a car.

You don't need one to carry a hand gun though lol. Y'all just went Kansas special. Welcome to the barracks.

Glad I took a training course, learned the laws, and had my finger prints sent to the FBI with a federal background check in order to be allowed to carry... Then Barry got elected and we decided it was more important to have more guns everywhere in case of mass shooting. Because we had a lot of mass shootings... Now 18 year olds can carry? Lololol burn this country to the ground 😂

What does this even mean? It's like some kind of word chain email but I can't tell if it's meant for chuds or libs.

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Toshokan
Apr 11, 2008
Prepare yourself for some obtuse logic--->


Can anyone recommend a relatively inexpensive belly band holster?

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