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snotball007
Dec 5, 2011

Disturbing in the least.

Looks rather good. Bonus points on not just saying "Glock 19 + MTAC" in the gun and holster sections.

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snotball007
Dec 5, 2011

Disturbing in the least.

So, the FBI is supposedly going back to 9mm. Pretty good read, explains the reasoning behind it. Pretty much condenses caliber debate.
http://loadoutroom.com/12077/fbi-going-9mm-comes-science/

Of course this happens right when I was looking at a scandium frame e series 1911...

snotball007
Dec 5, 2011

Disturbing in the least.

Glocks in general are a utilitarian gun. Trigger, sights, and pre-Gen 4 ergonomics are the baseline for what is considered acceptable by most for the basics. It's not bad, but it's not good.

You really can't compare a revolver to a striker fired pistol when it comes to triggers. Completely different mechanics at play.

snotball007
Dec 5, 2011

Disturbing in the least.

thermobollocks posted:

Sure you can. A DA revolver has longer travel, longer reset, and more weight by quite a bunch. For as gross as Glock triggers are, I have never short stroked one. The operating mechanism is different, yes, but that doesn't mean the trigger gets automatic points for having more to do.

And apples make terrible oranges.

snotball007
Dec 5, 2011

Disturbing in the least.

thermobollocks posted:



Yep, measuring two systems based on measurable criteria sure is a poor way to compare them.

Then, by comparison, both triggers are terrible compared to 1911's. And most hunting/long range rifles.

snotball007
Dec 5, 2011

Disturbing in the least.

thermobollocks posted:

They want you to piss in front of them or some poo poo?

If it's like my drug test, you have to empty your pockets and get rid of anything on your person besides clothes. They put your items in a lock box and give you the key. Then you are given a specimen cup and taken to a bathroom that has all the water shut off. The toilet also has a chemical dye dropped in it as well (if you are desperate enough to try and add toilet water to dilute the sample). Afterwards, you return the specimen cup, wash your hands (like a normal loving human being should), and retrieve said items from the locked box.

Edit: Sixgun, it was the same for me. Now I get drug tested at least once a year + randoms.

snotball007
Dec 5, 2011

Disturbing in the least.

Doctor Grape Ape posted:

...how the gently caress does that work?

And these doctors aren't using enough imagination if they're just taking poo poo from your pockets. Just hide your fake piss on your leg with a tube going to your pecker. Haven't you nerds ever seen Gattaca? of course not, nobody has seen Gattaca

The difference is getting it to keep the proper temperature. Plus these aren't just testing with a cheap strip. At least mine are sent away for chromatography. It's to the extent that the tests will also notify me if I become a diabetic.

Edit: I have seen Gattaca and that's why I always sweep my skin cells up

snotball007 fucked around with this message at 00:13 on Oct 14, 2014

snotball007
Dec 5, 2011

Disturbing in the least.


It's easier not to do drugs than to wear a fake dick every day that I work in case of a random drug test

snotball007
Dec 5, 2011

Disturbing in the least.

Senior Funkenstien posted:

I can get all of those for around the same price range. Thats why I'm asking. I am leaning towards the ruger because of hickock45's videos on it.

I'd give the LC9S the first nod over the other two listed. I haven't read any horrifying tales as opposed to the SCCY. And the Bodyguard is incredibly lackluster. The personality of the Bodyguard is akin to making a Glock more boring.

snotball007
Dec 5, 2011

Disturbing in the least.

So, what I'm gathering from the last few posts is that if you plan on buying a S&W shield/M&P, might as well add $100 to get the sights replaced. Guess they felt like that feature of a Glock was worth copying.

snotball007
Dec 5, 2011

Disturbing in the least.

king of the bongo posted:

If you plan on carrying any gun always expect to spend an extra $80-$150 at minimum between holsters and sights. I can't think of many replaceable sight guns for defense that come with good stock sights.

I disagree with that assessment. Holsters, sure. But you really shouldn't have to replace sights unless they are either pure hot garbage (Glock U dot) or you really just want something different. I was tempted to cheap out on my used G19 and throw on some standard night sights, but my personal preference for i dots changed that.

What I'm saying is that if you can't become decent with "okay" sights, then you probably need to reevaluate your skills. Shouldn't have to replace sights because they fall out, that's Kel-Tec quality and not S&W quality.

How hard is it to screw up three dots anyway?

snotball007
Dec 5, 2011

Disturbing in the least.

Sixgun Strumpet posted:

I remain wholly unconvinced that night sights are necessary.

If you can't see well enough to see your sights, how can you be sure of your target?

That aside, I'm not convinced a carry gun needs sights at all. If you can't hit center mass just by sighting along the top off your gun you may be in need of more practice.

I will say a lot of this opinion has been formed shooting old guns with all but useless archaic sights, and still being accurate enough with them for self defense work.

I love a great set off iron sights, but I can't say as my accuracy would drop much if you removed the sights completely. Would be interesting too test if I were touch enough to destroy a j frame.

I agree with this post.

snotball007
Dec 5, 2011

Disturbing in the least.

californiasushi posted:

this is probably one of the most ridiculous things i've read on the forums and there's been a lot of ridiculous things that have been said

Historically, dedicated carry guns have had little to no sight picture (J frames, Walther PPK's, Seecamps, etc.).

It's only with modern firearms (I'm going to go on a limb and say 1980-present) that you could have both a dedicated carry gun that was acceptable for some target shooting outside of the standard 7 yards.

Does Kommienzuspadt's standard of putting shots on an index card at 15 yards a necessity with a carry gun? No, but great for a modern carry gun which pulls double duty on the range.

Does Sixgun Strumpet's love of revolvers and properly pointing pistols (aka, "feels good in the hand" by the less educated) a necessity of a carry gun? By modern standards it does not, but it still gets the job done for him.

Hell, look at the antiquated technique that elderly gentleman in Florida(?) used to shoot at robbers in a casino. By today's standards his "wrist hold" is no longer accepted, but still works for him.

Basically, what I'm saying, is that I'm not sorry for saying that S&W is terrible for making such cheap sights on a pistol that is supposed to be "Military and Police".

snotball007
Dec 5, 2011

Disturbing in the least.

Sixgun Strumpet posted:

It might be an interesting experiment for some of you guys (maybe when you are upgrading to night sights) to go shoot your carry gun for a while without sights, see if you can get good with it, see if it makes you a better shooter.

Just reminded me of gun qualifications. One of the first shots is from the low ready at 5 yards. Gives you a good feel for the pistol. Not to mention hitting the X ring from such an awkward hold is a big confidence booster.

snotball007
Dec 5, 2011

Disturbing in the least.

Kommienzuspadt posted:


How many undercover LEOs carry seecamps or PPKs? Why do J frame crimson trace grips sell so well?


See, there is this thing called "context" that I included with my post. I said that these were classic examples of concealed carry weapons. I'm also pretty sure that j frames still see undercover use.

Just for reference, wiki has a list of Walther PP variant users http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walther_PP

And J frame crimson trace grips probably sell as well because people attach stupid unnecessary poo poo to their firearms. Glock crimson trace grips sell even better.

quote:


To clarify, the index card at varying distances has nothing to do with concealed carry beyond its utility as a measure of marksmanship ability - it's just an easy standard that anyone can use without a shot timer or IDPA targets.


Noted. Although I agree it is a great tool for proper trigger control which should be a greater concern with concealed carry than night sights

quote:


Ever notice that all of the police surplus .40 S&W M&Ps come with 3-dot tritium night sights? Ever wonder why that is? Hint - that's how they left the factory...

Yes, because police departments never make bad decisions when it comes to buying equipment. I'm sure they spend countless hours researching the $45 or less option per pistol. It's a far cheaper and easier option than having lights attached to the pistol.

snotball007
Dec 5, 2011

Disturbing in the least.

thermobollocks posted:



I've ignored the sights on my competition guns before. Hits were nowhere near acceptable even at about 5 yards, and speed does not suffer using sights. Sights are how you know where your bullets are going to go; they are not negotiable.

Competition ≠ defense. Again, X ring at the low ready at 5 yards is easily attainable. I did it with a Glock 21 SF after not shooting from December until April. And that should be considered acceptable by anyone's standards.

snotball007
Dec 5, 2011

Disturbing in the least.

thermobollocks posted:

It's easily attainable, but if it's slower and tougher than using the sights, all you're doing is jerking yourself off with a deliberate handicap.

You seem to think competition is this magical land where "normal people" don't exist.

And you seem to think that people always will have the time and ability to get a proper stance and sight picture in a defensive situation.

snotball007
Dec 5, 2011

Disturbing in the least.

I just need to find a holster for this. I'll be ready for any lighting situation. (Pro I dot night sights + TLR-4)

snotball007
Dec 5, 2011

Disturbing in the least.

californiasushi posted:

i think people stop posting on tfr when there's arguments with other goons who have very strong opinions and don't know what they're talking about. that isn't the case here. thermo & co shoot a lot, shoot well, have been tested, and know what they're talking about. i personally think it's great when people with a lot of good experience and knowledge share what they know

I think that's the main schism here. Plus guns tend to have a large personal investment and any disagreement easily spirals out of control. Not to mention the fervor that some people have and feel that anything less than their experience/equipment is a crime against gun-kind.

I'm just going to sit back, play my violin like Nero, and enjoy it because I'm a monster.

snotball007
Dec 5, 2011

Disturbing in the least.

Butch Cassidy posted:

Of interest probably only to you:

A guy in my town used to tote a 38 special, later 357 magnum, and finally a 44 mag. in a shoulder holster while dealing speed after 'Nam. And he kept his Ka-Bar small-of-back. Finding out about the amphetamines really helps explain why he once shot a pay phone with a lead SWC handload out of his 44 on impulse.

That guy is my hero.

snotball007
Dec 5, 2011

Disturbing in the least.

DeesGrandpa posted:

Yessss. Belt clips on all carry revolvers



I really don't think I'll ever not get aroused when I see that picture.

snotball007
Dec 5, 2011

Disturbing in the least.

Outside Dawg posted:

I haven't seen anyone's qualifications in this discussion, as of yet.

With how screwed up the Division of Corrections was, I'll probably get mine in the mail in two years considering I resigned in June.

snotball007
Dec 5, 2011

Disturbing in the least.

This thread has inspired me to take some force on force classes. Turns out one of my old instructors runs classes with airsoft. Invited me to come out and give it a run. Might as well invest in myself.

snotball007
Dec 5, 2011

Disturbing in the least.

I stick to carrying a j frame in a Don Hume JIT slide holster. Only because I've gotten too fat now. I've switched to eating healthy in the last week and hope to be back to acceptable weight by my standards (275lbs).

Before that I was carrying a Sig p228 and Glock 22 at times (before I sold the G22). Both in Galco King Tuk because I just like the way they feel and haven't had an issue with them. However, I also had an OWB Galco leather holster that just felt right, sold it with the Glock 22 and sort of regretting it.

Going to go to my Glock 19 in a King Tuk holster when I lose this extra 20 or so lbs.

snotball007
Dec 5, 2011

Disturbing in the least.

PRESIDENT GOKU posted:

Post pics of your J frame. Is it a model 40?

It's a 637-2 that I bought a year and a half ago NIB (not current tax return, but the one before it). Has an Apex spring kit installed, and I highly recommend it. Not only does it make it lighter trigger pull, but the included firing pin and spring keep it from getting light primer strikes. It is also rocking Altamont Polymer grips thanks to a very special Secret Santa.



Click to see how it carries.

snotball007
Dec 5, 2011

Disturbing in the least.

Sixgun Strumpet posted:

I hate them with a passion unrivaled by nearly any other gun.

Mostly because I almost broke off the cylinder release on the first one I picked up just trying to figure out how I should use it. I find the whole thing just wrong on so many levels.

Also, I'm not sure how they managed to make a crunchy trigger. Like, gritty I can get, but crunchy? It's like they didn't bother polishing anything inside there at all, tried the trigger once or twice and said good enough.

I maybe have only handled the 2 bad ones, but hoo boy, were they bad.

And gently caress that cylinder release forever, that was such a bad idea.

Or could have been the terrible quality of newer S&W revolvers. Like I've stated before with my 637, it still had some sort of machining goop in the internals. Just a quick clean and grease made things exponentially better. Sort of like the guy putting it together was told not to bother spending the time to do it.

snotball007
Dec 5, 2011

Disturbing in the least.

Itchy Itchiford posted:

That makes me want to tear my newish 642 apart and see if the heavy trigger is due to the design like I thought or just bullshit in the mechanism.

Trust me, Apex makes an outstanding carry spring kit for j frames that makes a world of difference. And the install video makes it incredibly easy.

J-Frame Assembly: http://youtu.be/ATrz7SSbpAk

I'd also grease the rebound where it meets with the frame. I would have stoned mine, but I lack the stones to do it.

snotball007
Dec 5, 2011

Disturbing in the least.

MrYenko posted:

If I need to disarm (doesn't happen too often in Florida, thankfully,) I generally just take the weapon out of the holster, but leave the holster on my belt.

What he said. Just make sure to secure it somewhere, like lock the glove box if it's just a quick jaunt in a relatively safe neighborhood. Bad neighborhood would probably require a safe of some sort.

snotball007
Dec 5, 2011

Disturbing in the least.

PRESIDENT GOKU posted:

Are you implying that TFR is an insular circle jerk of ~10 of the same posters for the last 4 years, where any new comers have their heads bitten off because of differences in TFR group think?!?!

Mods?

Cited reference: Springfield XD pistols. Used to be cool, but now considered some abomination to carry.

I've personally been against group think for quite some time. But I'm also a terrible poster with very rare insight and positive feedback on my posts. The Hive Mind has good intentions, but you always need to take it with a grain of salt.

People change around here, come and go. I know I've even had breaks in my short time here. I'm waiting for the post-Gtab era to end and have more quality posters instead of people trying to desperately fill the shoes of someone who was a legend in his own right. Dude was legit once you got to know him a little.

I would call out about 3 posters who are guilty of this, but I'm a little better than that.

As for Kommienzuspadt, he does have good advice generally, but also biased. He will tell you, as he has told me in the past, that he believes what he carries is the best because he has done the research and trained. My only gripe with him is that he seems to have tunnel vision. We are all unique snowflakes Kommienzuspadt. It's okay though, I've learned to accept and love him like I do with most posters here in TFR.

When I started posting here it was rougher than what it is now. But it did help me learn what I needed to know. Don't take criticism as the Hive Mind attacking you, but try and learn from it.

Either way, TFR and (most) of its posters are legit. Enjoy your stay.

snotball007
Dec 5, 2011

Disturbing in the least.

PRESIDENT GOKU posted:

Does anyone remember king hotpants? That dude swore by his XD compact. Two tone. It was gorgeous, but that was about ~6 years ago. Those are no good anymore?

It's more the idea that you can't service them yourself, more chance of failure with the unnecessary grip safety, and expensive magazines.

I personally had an XD 45 as my first gun. I had some reliability issues with 185gr, but fed 230gr without a hiccup. I ended up trading it during the panic because I realized that it was too much gun for me at the time. I wouldn't fault anyone for owning one, but they just aren't my cup of tea.

snotball007
Dec 5, 2011

Disturbing in the least.

Parts Kit posted:

ed: on second thought this isn't the sort of thread for posting about posting.

I saw it before the edit and I know what you mean. Before my time so I couldn't comment.

This is still my favorite thread for all the knowledge and reviews that get dropped by posters.

I'm probably going to buy a new gat/hog leg/roscoe/heater in the next few weeks and do an in depth review. Depends on how work goes this week.

snotball007
Dec 5, 2011

Disturbing in the least.

Kommienzuspadt posted:



I'd carry an XD waaaay before I carry a 100 year old hammerless pocket gun in .32 acp with springs that were manufactured when fuckin woodrow wilson was president

I'm pretty sure even the League of Nations would agree. I'd personally start looking at a modern 32 acp pistol if I was dead set on a true mouse gun. (like a Seecamp).

As for an XD, they really don't have a lot to offer for me. The lack of readily available OEM parts has turned me off to them as I do enjoy tinkering with my gats. Installing the SRT trigger in my p228 was probably some of the most fun I've ever had by myself.

snotball007 fucked around with this message at 10:24 on Oct 27, 2014

snotball007
Dec 5, 2011

Disturbing in the least.

OWLS! posted:

Let's take this a logical step further: nobody should carry, except for LEOs because they undergo the only right training with their firearms...

There's a bit of a massive difference between 22lr and 9mm for concealed carry. Rimfire ammo should be entirely avoided for defense due to the nature of the primer being more susceptible to failure. Not to mention far worse ballistics.

22lr pistols are great for getting started with using a pistol. Light range 9mm in a full size pistol would be the next logical step in recoil.

I still consider 38spl/380 acp to be the bare minimum. I stick with 9mm and 38spl.

snotball007
Dec 5, 2011

Disturbing in the least.

Bummey posted:

This is a very lovely conversation and no one is listening to each other. Take it from me, I know lovely posting, I do it every day.

I love you.

Also, the grip shape is what is mainly keeping me from getting a PPS. Saw one in person and just doesn't look all that comfortable.

snotball007
Dec 5, 2011

Disturbing in the least.

Fang posted:

I totally agree; the only point of disagreement is whose standards should be the ones applied. Yours shouldn't, because they're unrealistic and pretty obviously set at a level at (or slightly below) the point where you felt confident carrying. The level of training required to address 99% of defensive handgun use scenarious is the ability to draw the gun, and the level of caliber power required for that same percentage is addressed by any gun at all. I think the acceptable floor is above that, as do you; however, we disagree on its exact location. That said, you don't see me getting in people's faces when they throw terminal ballistics under the bus to carry something in 9mm Europellet in the name of comfort and recoil mitigation.

To avoid willful misinterpretation, I think one should achieve the highest level of proficiency possible with one's carry firearms, and should carry the most powerful handgun one can shoot well.

I'm glad you've ignored the ballistics conversation that we had a few weeks back.

snotball007
Dec 5, 2011

Disturbing in the least.

Greengarden posted:

In my mind, the standard that should be applied is: can the individual safely carry the firearm?

Beyond that, it's up to the individual to decide the criteria that suits their needs.

Ballistics are a weird thing. I've been shooting animals for a little over 30 years. No matter what you hit an animal with, if you hit it in the right spot it's going down. Conversely, if you don't hit the animal in the right spot, it'll probably die, but it sure isn't going to just expire on the spot simply because you hit it with a bigger bullet. You need to hit something vital.

Being able to put bullets where you want them is the single most important factor when determining whether you will be able to defend yourself. The other stuff (caliber, bullet construction, etc.) has an effect (maybe even a great effect), but if you don't put the bullets where they need to be then you aren't doing yourself any good. (And obviously, to do that, you need to have a gun with you....which is why rule #1 is "have a gun"...and why I sometimes carry a .32).


You see, you just don't know that with handguns, the 45acp round actually never misses. No matter what you hit, it is seriously devastating. [/sarcasm

quote:


As one final thought, I'm not sure why everyone is so up in arms about OWLS! feeling that recoil is a factor to be considered. This "man up" attitude is really misplaced. I have a .357 snubby that I can shoot pretty comfortably (yes, I carry appropriate short-barrel ammo for it). However, I can guarantee that, because of the difference in recoil, I could get 2 or 3 good shots (after the first) with the .32 for each good shot (after the first) with the .357. The first shot is the most important, but follow-up shots are important too.
I would like to sometime compare the recoil of a P32 and a Glock 19. Just for curiosity. Doubt I could comfortably shoot a 32acp with my mitts. The paperweight that I have called a PF-9 was a challenge, although surprisingly accurate.

I don't think it's a "Man Up" attitude, but more of a progression. I bought into 45acp hype when I bought my first gun. I had zero training and subsequently couldn't hit a drat thing. Ended up getting a couple crappy pistols chambered in 9mm and became more accurate. Then went to a Glock 22 in 40s&w, which I actually handled recoil superbly, before settling back on 9mm (mainly for versatility, caliber consolidation, and expense).

With my training feel confident that I can easily defend myself if a situation arises, which should be the point of ccw. And this all relies on myself and my weapon. Only an idiot would believe that there is a massive difference in autoloading pistol rounds (9mm to 45acp primarily) when it comes to lethality.

About the slap fight, it was more the way that the argument quickly devolved than anything. I personally don't give a drat about what anyone ends up carrying. Not like any of the words spoken here would truly stop someone if they are dead set on something.

snotball007 fucked around with this message at 04:05 on Oct 28, 2014

snotball007
Dec 5, 2011

Disturbing in the least.

Butch Cassidy posted:


45 ACP is okay as long as it is loaded in a custom 1911 or Glock 21. Providing someone calls the 21 a fatass pig.


I happen to like the 21 SF. It was fun on a bun. Granted, the ammo was free.

Otherwise, I pretty much agree with the post.

snotball007
Dec 5, 2011

Disturbing in the least.

Kommienzuspadt posted:

Well, it's quite simple. First, you anger a butthurt goon with a lazy sense of humor

snotball007
Dec 5, 2011

Disturbing in the least.

Juice posted:

OK.



That is the gold standard in leather IWB holsters. We don't talk about it a lot here because the 10 posters who produce 75% of our content don't own one and thus don't recommend it. Also, it costs more than whatever they recommend. However it doesn't cost more than buying whatever they recommend first, and then figuring out it's an average product and buying something else searching for a good holster.

It's the Milt Sparks VM-II. Holsters are all very personal and what works for one person won't work for another. So I can't promise it will work for you. From a quality standpoint, it's among the best (there are probably equivalent and better holsters - I just don't have experience with them...but they don't have "tac" in their name).

Should also mention the 8-12 weeks delivery time unless Top Gun Supply has the one you need in stock.

I'll probably buy one because I'm terrible with money, but it also means that I have to decide what gun and get a new belt unless I want the 8-12 week lead time as the in stock ones only come with 1.5" loops and my current belt is 1.75".

Still a nice holster, won't deny that.

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snotball007
Dec 5, 2011

Disturbing in the least.

This recent holster chat has me looking at belts again. The original Wilderness instructors belts decent quality? I'd like it to be sturdy enough for me to rack my slide by using the sights.

I like my Glaco instructors belt, but I've become too much of a fatass.

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