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Kommienzuspadt
Apr 28, 2004

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z06ck posted:

Define "service" for me

Likely to end up in a cop or military holster.

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Kommienzuspadt
Apr 28, 2004

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Crunkjuice posted:

Has anyone taken the time to take photos of the major ammo side by side with dimensions? How different dimensionally are different manufacturers of ammunition?

They should fall all within this spec, but the big variation among JHPs will be bullet ogive and hollowpoint cavity shape/dimensions.

Kommienzuspadt
Apr 28, 2004

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z06ck posted:

OK, so a specific round that has been tested, through and through.

I was referring to the pistol, but yeah, true of ammo too. Anything Speer or Federal make, and the higher-end Winchester and Remington stuff too.

Kommienzuspadt
Apr 28, 2004

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z06ck posted:

I doubt you shoot enough for it to matter.


I have a little over 13000 rounds through my Glock 17 alone... I also carry many of my guns, which means they need to work flawlessly. What is the point of this comment again?

Kommienzuspadt
Apr 28, 2004

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safetyStanddown posted:

Related question, are there any good defense loads that are not +P or higher?
Everything I've carried in the past has been at least 9mm +P (with exception of 9x18mm and .25 ACP), but now I'm about to start carrying a Rohrbaugh R9S, and it can't do +P.

Yes. 147gr Ranger T, Speer Gold Dot, Federal HST or Remington Golden Saber. I carry the 147gr Ranger Ts myself.

Parts Kit posted:

You can find not-+p self defense loads, though it can take a bit more searching. Online is usually easy, though local might be tricky depending on what stores think will move.


147gr offerings are usually not too hard to find. 124gr non +P is a little trickier yes.

http://www.sgammo.com/product/remington/25-round-box-9mm-luger-remington-golden-saber-147-grain-brass-jacketed-hollow-poin

Here are some, though in 25rd boxes and not 50rd.

Butch Cassidy posted:

They only need to work flawlessly with the ammunition loaded in them. If you carry, for example, 124 grain Speer gold dot +P then whether or not your gun will run 147 grain golden sabers is an academic question. Its failure with one load in no way diminishes its reliability with another.


I personally interpret it to be a sign that the gun is finicky and thus not to be trusted.

Kommienzuspadt fucked around with this message at 17:18 on Feb 4, 2015

Kommienzuspadt
Apr 28, 2004

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Butch Cassidy posted:

They only need to work flawlessly with the ammunition loaded in them. If you carry, for example, 124 grain Speer gold dot +P then whether or not your gun will run 147 grain golden sabers is an academic question. Its failure with one load in no way diminishes its reliability with another.

and what happens if you can't get a hold of the load that works at a given time? While less of a problem for non-LEOs, this would be a total no-go for a police department that provides duty ammunition for their officers. still definitely an issue for regular consumers as well - I have definitely not been able to find specific rounds I was looking for and thus ordered another list-approved equivalent on more than one occasion. Fortunately all have worked in my guns.


Butch Cassidy posted:

But there were loads then frequently recommended by top trainers and writers as being particularly reliable feeders across a range of pistols.


Such as?

Butch Cassidy posted:

And, as much as bullet performance in target has improved, general feed reliability of ammo has. But it is still completely unrealistic to be surprised when a bobble occurs with a specific load in one particular weapon.

Why do you think this is unrealistic? There are plenty of handguns out there that have proven to be flawless with a wide variety of ammunition (when the pistol is in good working order). You can probably imagine what they are - Glocks, SIGs, M&Ps, HKs... the same guns that end up in duty holsters. Sure, each of these companies has made lemons, but none have to my knowledge put out a modern product that was known to only function with a certain JHP. For that matter, I have never up until this point heard of a PPS being picky with the JHPs it feeds....

not to beat this argument to death but I think my expectation of reliability for a pistol is 1. not really that unreasonable given the importance of its good function and 2. a fairly common standard. Most of the major brands make guns that don't choke on anything but the weirdest of ammo, both full size and subcompact frames. I don't think there are very many recommended guns even in TFR that aren't known for that level of reliability. CZs, Browning Hi Powers and some 1911s are the only ones I can think of that might have trouble with certain JHPs, and even then my lovely RIA 1911 has eaten everything from glaser safety slugs to flat nosed hard cast lead reloads...

Kommienzuspadt fucked around with this message at 23:26 on Feb 4, 2015

Kommienzuspadt
Apr 28, 2004

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thermobollocks posted:

SGA Ammo and Ammo To Go generally

SGAmmo rules. Also, I shoot a lot of Freedom Munitions reloads these days too.

Kommienzuspadt
Apr 28, 2004

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The Rat posted:

Freedom Munitions' $5 shipping keeps getting me.

Yeah its a pretty drat good deal... and their 115gr 9mm has been really solid for me. No bobbles in maybe half a dozen cases worth. their .38 SPL is good too.

Kommienzuspadt
Apr 28, 2004

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plus there are all kinds of blue state Rs like Christie who probably won't vote for it if they can get away with it.

Kommienzuspadt
Apr 28, 2004

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Craptacular posted:

Christie is the governor of New Jersey, not a senator.

Durr. My bad.

Kommienzuspadt
Apr 28, 2004

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thermobollocks posted:

Shoot them at watermelons and wait for Gold Dots to get back in stock

Kommienzuspadt
Apr 28, 2004

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Itchy Itchiford posted:

Still looking for the perfect AIWB holster. I think I've decided leather is the way to go. Need something with a sweat shield, but otherwise I'm open to suggestion. What's your favorite no-cant IWB?

the 5-shot SME is well regarded for leather AIWB but I have no firsthand experience.

Kommienzuspadt
Apr 28, 2004

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along the way posted:

Anyone have a holster recommendation for an officer sized 1911?

I have a Dan Wesson ECO 45 coming and need to find a holster for it.

Leather or kydex? Concealment or IDPA/range use?

Kommienzuspadt
Apr 28, 2004

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along the way posted:

Open to either leather or kydex. I have an Alien Gear 2.0 that I use for my G26 that I like, but I'm looking to spend a bit more money for the DW if necessary.

I'll be using it for everyday concealment.

If you like leather, I'd recommend Milt Sparks. I need to get around to ordering my own holster from him.... I am assuming you want an IWB holster, but if not he has some great OWB options too.

For Kydex/Leather, the Comp-tac MTAC is a TFR favorite. I had one for years that I carried my G19 in and loved it. Only sold it when I started carrying AIWB.

For pure kydex, Raven Concealment is a very solid choice. They are modular systems that allow you to use the same holster to carry OWB and IWB. I have one of their holsters that I carry my G19 in, but in full disclosure I've only used it OWB so I can't comment on how comfortable it is IWB.

Kommienzuspadt
Apr 28, 2004

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That version is actually a bit older. Here is the latest.

quote:

9 mm:
Barnes XPB 115 gr JHP (copper bullet)
Federal Tactical 124 gr JHP (LE9T1)
Federal HST 124 gr +P JHP (P9HST3)
Remington Golden Saber bonded 124 gr +P JHP (GSB9MMD)
Speer Gold Dot 124 gr +P JHP
Winchester Ranger-T 124 gr +P JHP (RA9124TP)
Winchester 124 gr +P bonded JHP (RA9BA)
Winchester Ranger-T 127 gr +P+ JHP (RA9TA)
Federal Tactical 135 gr +P JHP (LE9T5)
Hornady Critical Duty 135 gr +P PT
Federal HST 147 gr JHP (P9HST2)
Remington Golden Saber 147 gr JHP (GS9MMC)
Speer Gold Dot 147 gr JHP
Winchester Ranger-T 147 gr JHP (RA9T)
Winchester 147 gr bonded JHP (RA9B/Q4364)

.40 S&W:
Barnes XPB 140 & 155 gr JHP (copper bullet)
Speer Gold Dot 155 gr JHP
Federal Tactical 165 gr JHP (LE40T3)
Speer Gold Dot 165 gr JHP
Winchester Ranger-T 165 gr JHP (RA40TA)
Federal HST 180 gr JHP (P40HST1)
Federal Tactical 180 gr JHP (LE40T1)
Remington Golden Saber 180 gr JHP (GS40SWB)
Speer Gold Dot 180 gr JHP
Winchester Ranger-T 180 gr JHP (RA40T)
Winchester 180 gr bonded JHP (RA40B/Q4355/S40SWPDB1)

.45 ACP:
Barnes XPB 185 gr JHP (copper bullet)
Hornady Critical Duty 220 gr +P JHP
Federal HST 230 gr JHP (P45HST2)
Federal HST 230 gr +P JHP (P45HST1)
Federal Tactical 230 gr JHP (LE45T1)
Speer Gold Dot 230 gr JHP
Winchester Ranger-T 230 gr JHP (RA45T)
Winchester Ranger-T 230 gr +P JHP (RA45TP)

Notes:
-- Obviously, clone loads using the same bullet at the same velocity work equally well (ie. Black Hills ammo using Gold Dot bullets, Corbon loads using Barnes XPB bullets, etc…)

-- Bullet designs like the Silver Tip, Hydra-Shok, and Black Talon were state of the art 15 or 20 years ago. These older bullets tend to plug up and act like FMJ projectiles when shot through heavy clothing; they also often have significant degradation in terminal performance after first passing through intermediate barriers. Modern ammunition which has been designed for robust expansion against clothing and intermediate barriers is significantly superior to the older designs. The bullets in the Federal Classic and Hydrashok line are outperformed by other ATK products such as the Federal Tactical and HST, as well as the Speer Gold Dot; likewise Winchester Ranger Talons are far superior to the old Black Talons or civilian SXT's.

Kommienzuspadt
Apr 28, 2004

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Kennebago posted:

Are the Barnes "XPB" loads on here actual Barnes loads (as in, from Mona) or are they Cor-Bon, etc?

Barnes loads Tac-XPD but I have never seen it on the "approved" list.


I think the original list cited the Cor-Bon DPX load. In my experience, Cor-Bon makes totally poo poo ammo. I had 3 boxes of 115gr 9mm DPX, and each box had rounds that were super poorly crimped so the bullet could be pulled out by hand - including the 2 replacement boxes they sent me. I basically gave up on Cor-Bon and the DPX bullet after that - I am sure the bullet is good when loaded by someone who knows what they are doing, but given that Speer Gold Dot, Federal HST and Winchester Ranger T are all cheaper I didn't see the point in sticking with the DPX.

Wendigee posted:

Kansas just passed a bill through the senate and its being sent to the house to allow anyone to conceal carry without a permit, testing, or anything other than not being a felon.




In theory I am all for a minimum licensing requirement for concealed carry, but in my experience none of the classes I've taken (Have been licensed in OR, CT, and now MN) really taught me poo poo. Plus they were kinda pricy. So we'll see what happens. I would be happy if the feddy gov passed a national carry permit that required like a 2 day handgun class that had a subsidized and affordable cost but provided worthwhile training. that said I don't think anyone cares about my political wet dreams. Oh well.

Kommienzuspadt
Apr 28, 2004

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Craptacular posted:

Not all felons.

Martha Stewart is A OK!!!

Kommienzuspadt
Apr 28, 2004

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Bum the Sad posted:

Played with one earlier today and I think I'm going to get a Glock 26 for my first concealed carry gun. I see a bunch of mentions on the first couple pages so I assume it's goon approved? Anything I should take into consideration?

They are great. Buy a magazine with an OEM +2 baseplate - they increase the versatility of the pistol.

Kommienzuspadt
Apr 28, 2004

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MrYenko posted:

If those are the longer mags with the pinkie rest, like I think they are, they're nearly mandatory if you have big hands.

I have smaller hands and am able to shoot the gun well without the +2 baseplate, but I can imagine if you have massive paws they would be pretty helpful.

Kommienzuspadt
Apr 28, 2004

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Bum the Sad posted:

That's nice just googled that. My one issue was my pinky hanging off the bottom. That solves that.

FWIW the G26 is my favorite carry pistol and easily the most versatile. The +2 mag gives you something like a bobtailed G19 with 12+1 capacity, and there are other baseplate options for the 10rd mags that offer grip improvements without changing grip length. If I could only have one pistol for carry it would be a G26 no doubt.

Kommienzuspadt
Apr 28, 2004

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MrTuffPaws posted:

Glocks are good guns. I have a 26 myself. It is a tack driver. The only issues I have with it are:

*The ergos aren't that good. You will end up extending mag release or slide stop to get it to fit. And new sights are almost a given.

*I didn't like the stock trigger. For the life of me, I couldn't stop the gun jumping when the trigger finally released the striker. A new custom disconnector solved that.

*The recoil is sharper than other 9's in that size range. It recoils more than my thin and lighter XDs with the same loads.

*The thing conceals about as well as a brick. You will have trouble getting a holster to hide the gun and not print. Even worse with the extended mags.


I really suggest that you rent one and put a 100 or so rounds through it before buying one.

Counterpoints:

1. Ergos are pretty subjective. In my hands I don't need an extended release to drop the slide. New sights though are definitely a given - as they would be on any carry gun that doesnt come with tritium night sights.

2. I find the stock trigger to be very, very shootable - especially after a little light polishing and several thousand rounds down the pipe.

3. I find the recoil to be very manageable, but YMMV. My only points of comparison are a Kel-Tec and a Walther PPS, and I felt that both the Kel-Tec and the PPS were more difficult to control than the 26.

4. I find it conceals very well - definitely better than the g19 - but of course a single-stack of any kind will conceal better, as will most snub nosed revolvers. As a caveat, I carry in the appendix position.

Kommienzuspadt
Apr 28, 2004

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thermobollocks posted:

Concealment is going to be more of a function of your holster and dress. I am also a freak of nature who can wear a 92FS under a Wal-Mart medium

Yeah that poo poo cray FISH FILET

Kommienzuspadt
Apr 28, 2004

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safetyStanddown posted:

Don't want to post this in my box thread because I'd rather not revive the hatred, but in end of that thread I mentioned I'd be replacing my R9S with something less extreme in the long run, specifically a Tiffany blue G42.
Anyway, I'm not doing that. I kept thinking back to my experience renting one last Fall, and how many times it jammed on me (at least once per mag), so I went to check it out in person again. Way bigger than I remembered, and definitely too big for my intents and purposes.
So instead, I ordered the new LCP Custom. It's like a regular LCP, except for the wide flat-faced aluminum trigger (noticeably better than stock LCP, compared dry side-by-side), dovetail rear, night sight front, polished steel guide rod (not sure why this matters), and polished sides. For some reason, these tend to be cheaper than regular LCPs right now. Got it NIB for $295 shipped. If all goes as planned, I'll be picking it up before this weekend.


That gun actually looks great. I found my friend's LCP to be highly shootable, and the laser on yours (i assume it comes with the viridian?) will actually be worth a poo poo.

Kommienzuspadt
Apr 28, 2004

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safetyStanddown posted:

Nah, that pic is from Viridian's promo gallery. I imagine if it sold with one for <$300, there's no way I'd ever find one in stock right now. It would be nice eventually, though.

You said it had tritium sights right? Thats a good start. with tiny guns that have fixed, flat metal sights, I think lasers are basically necessary. If you can at least use the sight to put rounds on target in low light at ~7yds they'll probably do.

Kommienzuspadt
Apr 28, 2004

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MrTuffPaws posted:

I came to that realization too. First I went with Pierce grip extensions then realized that a G19 mag was only slightly longer, so I just went with the Xgrips and G19 mags. Works like a charm, and the gun isn't really that much harder to conceal that it was before. Then I realized what many other G26 owners do, that I should of just bought a G19.

I actually like the G26 w/ OEM +2 baseplates. Conceals a little better than the 19, shoots very well. For the purpose of concealed carry I think the g26 is a better all-around choice for someone under 6' tall, as it is more versatile than the 19 when you use some of the baseplates. I also own a 19 and a 17, though, so maybe I would feel differently if the 26 was my only pistol...

Kommienzuspadt
Apr 28, 2004

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Beardless posted:

Question time. I'm currently using my M&P9C as a more or less nightstand gun, and I was wondering if I should get night sights or a weapon light first. I'm looking at Ameriglo Hackathorns and a Streamlight TLR3 respectively. Thoughts?

If you don't carry it then get a TLR3 first. eventually you will want both.

Kommienzuspadt
Apr 28, 2004

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Bummey posted:

Ares Ranger best belt, even if the new ones use a material that isn't as stiff as the old ones. e: holy poo poo the price went up by like $40 too. gently caress that.

I think they only went up like $25. Pretty sure I apid $80 for mine.

Kommienzuspadt
Apr 28, 2004

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Butch Cassidy posted:

Any other decent and inexpensive options for a kydex paddle sized for a 23 & TLR-1? Nothing to carry, just to slip in the waistband of my pants when checking a bump downstairs.

without a belt, the weight of a loaded gun + light + holster will probably not work as you are envisioning.

Kommienzuspadt
Apr 28, 2004

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Butch Cassidy posted:

I leave the previous day's pants complete with belt/pocketknife/wallet in the closet to grab and be weaeing something in event of fire/bump in the night/kid needing to get to hospital. Then swap my junk out to fresh pants in the morning and dump the old in the laundry.

ah, gotcha. i was thinking sweatpants.

Kommienzuspadt
Apr 28, 2004

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dexefiend posted:

Does anyone have an opinion on choosing between the Glock 27 and the Glock 30S?

They both fit my hand well, and I am leaving towards the 30S due to my existing .45ACP pistol.

How small do you want the gun to be? Have you handled either? What .45 do you already own?

I dislike the Glock 27 as .40 is not terribly pleasant to shoot out of a gun that size. Between the two you listed, I would pick the Glock 30S. However, keep in mind that the grip of the 30S will be just as wide as the Glock 21 - which, on my frame at least (5'10 ~175lb) was not easy to conceal. The grip also ends up being just about as long as a Glock 19's with the mag inserted. If you aren't opposed to a 9mm, the G26 is smaller, easier to conceal, and is actually quite pleasant to shoot too. I carry one quite often.

If you want a .45 that will be a bit easier to conceal, look into the M&P45c. A bit slimmer than the G30s in the grip and holds 8+1 rounds of .45. That would be the gun I would carry if I wanted to stick with .45.

Kommienzuspadt
Apr 28, 2004

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shortspecialbus posted:

Any recommendations for a single mag pouch? I have an MTAC coming for a G19. Also maybe a decent flashlight and pouch, since I don't want to carry the TLR-1. These are both less important, but I may want one down the road.

IWB or OWB mag carrier? For flashlights, plenty have a pocket clip that allow you to forego the pouch. I carre a Streamlight PT2L and its just about the perfect size. Pocket clip works such that it is always in my front left pocket.

Kommienzuspadt
Apr 28, 2004

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shortspecialbus posted:

IWB, I would think. Good call on the flashlight clip - I didn't think of that.

Edit: I'm not really sure on the IWB vs OWB. If I'm doing IWB carry, is there a reason not to do IWB for an extra mag if I decide to go that route? Although to be honest I'm having trouble thinking of a situation where I'd need 30 rounds.

I have a (bad) IWB mag carrier (Bianchi maybe?) and a good OWB kydex mag carrier (Comp-tac). these days I don't carry a spare mag unless im carrying owb because the clip Comp-Tac carrier is effortless and im already carrying a G19 + TLR1 on what is usually a heavy rear end belt anyway. I only really do this in the winter when I am wearing heavy clothes. When it's spring/fall/summer I rarely bother with a spare mag, and when I do it's OWB anyway under a light jacket (conceals pretty easily actually). I find IWB mags to be uncomfortable to be honest. maybe I would feel differently with a single stack pistol.

for me its always a compromise of "how will I be dressed anyway" and "am i spending protracted time around friends or other people in close proximity". If I am going grocery shopping etc and its cooler outside I will wear more gun + spare mags because nobody's paying attention to me and I'm wearing warm clothes anyway. If it's hot and I'm with friends I don't bother with the spare mag and will usually carry a J frame instead. YMMV

In theory the spare mag isnt so much for the extra rounds but for clearing a malfunction or something. not that I am worried about either really - I just figure that if I own the spare mag and mag pouch and I can hide it easily and without a lot of added bulk, why not?

Kommienzuspadt
Apr 28, 2004

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shortspecialbus posted:

so, my MTAC came, and it looks different than every picture I've seen of the MTAC. What's up with this? I'm pretty sure they sent me an Infidel Ultra or something.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/hery19bg52tvfz0/Screenshot%202015-03-18%2012.57.47.png

Yeah that's not an MTAC. Contact their customer service and let them know. they'll take care of you.

Kommienzuspadt
Apr 28, 2004

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Butch Cassidy posted:

+P is mostly a carryover from years ago when 9mm had trouble pushing JHP fast enough to work. Modern bullets perform fine and dandy in standard pressure so you don't have to shoot a high pressure 9mm trying its damndest to snap like a forty.

+P in some loads does still do somewhat better through auto glass, but really standard pressure is excellent these days.

The Speer GD 124gr +Ps do a little bit better than the standard pressure. If given the choice, I would rather the +P 124gr 9mms than standard pressure equivalents.

As a general rule, 124 gr +P or 147 gr standard pressure hold their momentum through intermediate barriers about equally well.

Kommienzuspadt
Apr 28, 2004

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shortspecialbus posted:

So, should I switch to the standard 124g gold dots? I still have a few hundred rounds of +P and it's definitely snappier to shoot, but not problematic.

Keep it.

Basically, if its on the list below, it works equally well as anything else on the list. If it's not, it still might, but do your homework.

quote:

9 mm:
Barnes XPB 115 gr JHP (copper bullet)
Federal Tactical 124 gr JHP (LE9T1)
Federal HST 124 gr +P JHP (P9HST3)
Remington Golden Saber bonded 124 gr +P JHP (GSB9MMD)
Speer Gold Dot 124 gr +P JHP
Winchester Ranger-T 124 gr +P JHP (RA9124TP)
Winchester 124 gr +P bonded JHP (RA9BA)
Winchester Ranger-T 127 gr +P+ JHP (RA9TA)
Federal Tactical 135 gr +P JHP (LE9T5)
Hornady Critical Duty 135 gr +P PT
Federal HST 147 gr JHP (P9HST2)
Remington Golden Saber 147 gr JHP (GS9MMC)
Speer Gold Dot 147 gr JHP
Winchester Ranger-T 147 gr JHP (RA9T)
Winchester 147 gr bonded JHP (RA9B/Q4364)

.40 S&W:
Barnes XPB 140 & 155 gr JHP (copper bullet)
Speer Gold Dot 155 gr JHP
Federal Tactical 165 gr JHP (LE40T3)
Speer Gold Dot 165 gr JHP
Winchester Ranger-T 165 gr JHP (RA40TA)
Federal HST 180 gr JHP (P40HST1)
Federal Tactical 180 gr JHP (LE40T1)
Remington Golden Saber 180 gr JHP (GS40SWB)
Speer Gold Dot 180 gr JHP
Winchester Ranger-T 180 gr JHP (RA40T)
Winchester 180 gr bonded JHP (RA40B/Q4355/S40SWPDB1)

.45 ACP:
Barnes XPB 185 gr JHP (copper bullet)
Hornady Critical Duty 220 gr +P JHP
Federal HST 230 gr JHP (P45HST2)
Federal HST 230 gr +P JHP (P45HST1)
Federal Tactical 230 gr JHP (LE45T1)
Speer Gold Dot 230 gr JHP
Winchester Ranger-T 230 gr JHP (RA45T)
Winchester Ranger-T 230 gr +P JHP (RA45TP)

Kommienzuspadt
Apr 28, 2004

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Butch Cassidy posted:

Doesn't a good bit of 230 grain 45 ACP standard pressure still underperform in short barrels, though? I think mousetunaddict's tiny gun testing indicated so, but I can't be sure off the top of my head.

IDK about .45 but in 9mm at least everything does pretty well until you get significantly below 3".

Kommienzuspadt
Apr 28, 2004

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GoGoGadgetChris posted:


Sig makes too many variations.

They really do. That never made much sense to me quite frankly.

Kommienzuspadt
Apr 28, 2004

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Final Blog Entry posted:

Can anyone recommend a holster for an M&P Compact for IWB carry at 4 o'clock? In Florida, so something with enough sweat shield to cover the whole slide is preferred. Already looking at the MTAC, anything less bulky and easier on/off I should be looking at? If there were something that could accommodate a TLR-3 on the gun, that would be a bonus.

Do you want leather, kydex, or hybrid (both)?

Kommienzuspadt
Apr 28, 2004

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Basticle posted:

They list every other gun of comparable size including several other SIGs but no P290 get fuuuuucked

SIG makes like 80 different pistols (even if most of them are just slightly differently-shaped SIG Classics). Holster makers have to purchase lead cast molds with which to make their holsters and they are kind of expensive. As a result, SIG owners get screwed because instead of having to buy 1 mold for a Glock 19 for example, they have to buy 4 molds (SIG P229, P229R, P229 E2, M11A1, whatever). My guess is the P290 didnt really sell very well and nobody bought the mold for it.

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Kommienzuspadt
Apr 28, 2004

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Butch Cassidy posted:

Some Glock holster molds actually only come as a G17 with trim lines to take it down to a G19. Makers offering rigs for snowflakes are quite often using a live unit they have access to blanked out with masking tape.

Interesting. Didn't know that about the G17 mold. . Either way, volume of sales is directly proportional to the number of holster offerings. hard to get upset if someone doesn't sell holsters for uncommon guns. There's a reason I always recommend dirt common pistols to newbies.

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