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Pryor on Fire
May 14, 2013

they don't know all alien abduction experiences can be explained by people thinking saving private ryan was a documentary



Was anyone else unreasonably outraged by Carrie driving a Jeep Liberty that magically transformed into a Grand Cherokee then back into a Liberty? Get your poo poo together Showtime.

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pentyne
Nov 7, 2012
turdiak


Mr. Gibbycrumbles posted:

Conspiracy theory:

Season 4 finale was initially filmed to wrap up the Haqqani story, with him being killed, and also deal with some serious mindfuck Dar Adal treason poo poo.

When they got Season 5 greenlit though, they decided they wanted to string Haqqani out for another season (because everyone loved the Haqqani stuff), so they ditched their existing finale and scrambled to re-shoot a new one (they had to shoot it all in the US, because the South Africa shoot had all packed up) - so they came up with this cobbled-together bollocks instead, and of course had to sort-of wave away the Dar Adal stuff with some weak piffle, so that they could string his treason stuff out for another season as well.

This will be the history of the show.

"When Season X was confirmed they had to redo and make adjusts to the original plan in a matter of days"

Brody was supposed to die, Showtime came in and ordered them to keep him alive, ruined what might've been the best season of TV ever. Even the Brody family stuff in season 1 was incredible and worth every second they spent on it until Dana was reduced to a troubled teen roaming the countryside just complaining and dragging down the show.

in_cahoots
Sep 12, 2011


AKA Pseudonym posted:

I think the main problem is that they left the audience expecting something big after the Dar Adal reveal. They really needed something to excuse the constant blue balls over Haqani never quite getting killed. A little cool down is alright but we shouldn't have to look at afterwards and say "Well I guess that was the climax back there."

They left the last episode on a mini-cliffhanger, and this one opened up with all the resolution taking place offscreen. I don't mind that sort of jump between seasons, or even between episodes with an appropriate transition (I.e a 'One Week/Month/Year later placard). But here it just seemed like they filmed 30 mins of footage tying up all the loose ends and cut it later, replacing it with a bunch of conversations about what happened. It's lazy storytelling, and I can't believe that's what the writers intended to happen.

redreader
Nov 2, 2009

I am the coolest person ever with my pirate chalice. Seriously.



Dinosaur Gum

Mr. Gibbycrumbles posted:

Conspiracy theory:

Season 4 finale was initially filmed to wrap up the Haqqani story, with him being killed, and also deal with some serious mindfuck Dar Adal treason poo poo.

When they got Season 5 greenlit though, they decided they wanted to string Haqqani out for another season (because everyone loved the Haqqani stuff), so they ditched their existing finale and scrambled to re-shoot a new one (they had to shoot it all in the US, because the South Africa shoot had all packed up) - so they came up with this cobbled-together bollocks instead, and of course had to sort-of wave away the Dar Adal stuff with some weak piffle, so that they could string his treason stuff out for another season as well.

No. This episode was filmed in South Africa.

warcrimes
Jul 6, 2013

I don't know what's it called, I just know the sound it makes when it takes a J4G's life. :parrot: :parrot: :parrot: :parrot:

Kelly posted:

What is this video they keep talking about that Saul is in? Him being on video as a hostage is enough to take him out of even being in the CIA again, ever? Did something more incriminating happen? I don't feel like they laid the framework for that very well - unless I missed something.

His capture directly led to the massacre at the embassy, this isn't rocket science.

This ep was a pretty big letdown but I still enjoyed the season, overall.

Binary Logic
Dec 28, 2000

Wash Your Hands


Fun Shoe

HOT SQUATS posted:

I'm going to defend the finale. It wasn't meant to be the climax of the season like I'm sure a lot of viewers were expecting, it was an epilogue. The climax happened a few episodes ago and this episode was all about the aftermath.

I think the writers did a good job closing a bunch of character arcs in this episode and generally wrapping things up. I especially liked Lockhart's send-off. It was perfect. I'm also glad the show finally acknowledge Rebhorn's death.

I thought the last ep was good. Every man in Carrie's life is gone. Father, Quinn, and even Saul who's with Dar Adal who's with Haqqani.
And even in her personal life she's still The Drone Queen. Going after her mother was like a track-and-kill mission that she had to complete.

Agent Burt Macklin
Jul 3, 2003

Macklin, you son of a bitch

warcrimes posted:

His capture directly led to the massacre at the embassy, this isn't rocket science.

This ep was a pretty big letdown but I still enjoyed the season, overall.

Right and how does the video make that worse. Does the public not know he we was taken?

No need to be a dick when you answer.

-Blackadder-
Jan 2, 2007

Game....Blouses.


Didn't even realize this was the finale. Man, this show became so pedestrian without brody.

Calvin Johnson Jr.
Dec 8, 2009


Yeah I didn't even know that was the end until this thread

n3wt
Dec 22, 2005


Carrie, once again proving that you can be smart about some things and ridiculously stupid about others.

On discovering her mom is incapable of staying faithful or taking responsibility:
"I thought bipolar people (like dad) get abandoned by all those they love and now I don't.... so I'm going to have a fairytale normal life with Quinn!"
"I don't see how I might have inherited any character traits from her at all despite abandoning my baby too and having a history of risky relationships"

On discovering that the CIA made a covert deal with Haqqani that would get Saul, an actual sane agent, back in charge of the CIA instead of that coward Lockhart who handed over a list of assets for Haqqani to kill.
" Treason! We don't deal with terrorists. This hasn't happened a thousand times in the history of the CIA. Saul definitely isn't looking at the bigger picture."

The finale wasn't just anti climatic, it was dumbdumb and didn't give us anything to look forward to in the next season. Not even the tiniest hook. Have the writers given up?

HOT SQUATS
Sep 24, 2006

How all the DJ's cut
How all the DJ's cut
Cut me a slice of your track now

n3wt posted:

On discovering that the CIA made a covert deal with Haqqani that would get Saul, an actual sane agent, back in charge of the CIA instead of that coward Lockhart who handed over a list of assets for Haqqani to kill.
" Treason! We don't deal with terrorists. This hasn't happened a thousand times in the history of the CIA. Saul definitely isn't looking at the bigger picture."



If Carrie had rolled over and accepted Haqqani as an asset, it would have been totally awful. Haqqani personally killed two of her friends, and had 40 of her colleagues killed. She was right to be mad.

Arzakon
Nov 24, 2002

"I hereby retire from Mafia"
Please turbo me if you catch me in a game.


I thought Ep 10 was the finale when it ended and that would have been so much better. Lead into a season 5 unsanctioned mission in Pakistan. God that finale was terrible.

n3wt
Dec 22, 2005


HOT SQUATS posted:

If Carrie had rolled over and accepted Haqqani as an asset, it would have been totally awful. Haqqani personally killed two of her friends, and had 40 of her colleagues killed. She was right to be mad.

I don't expect her to accept Haqqani as an ally at all, I was hoping she'd jump on the opportunity to find a way to get access to kill him.
But the big picture here is that the CIA hosed up massively in Pakistan by not properly vetting information, not getting decent intelligence sources (such as Khan who could have been cultivated as an asset and many others who despise the Taliban) and the general policy of "shoot first, explain later" that Lockhart instituted.

Carrie's carrying the weight of bombing a wedding from bad intelligence, having to get a young man killed for a chance to get at the real target, losing collegues to an insane security breach because she wasn't handed enough power to get the staff of the embassy scrutinized or to properly interrogate the ambassador's husband once they knew he was the leak then given no power to save the very valuable Pakistani assets on the list.
That's all on the CIA but I guess maybe she's too shortsighted and still blaming herself.
I'm also a little surprised how easily she forgave Lockhart for opening that vault containing a bunch of important people who could have been slaughtered then handing over very sensitive information ...even if it was to potentially save a collegue - given how hardline she was about drone bombing Haqqani despite Sauls's presence and her reluctance on the prisoner exchange.
Now they're having drinks at her dad's funeral? ? ?

Even if Carrie plans on quitting the agency to raise her Brody baby (not likely) she doesn't want the same bureaucrats running it that have been messing up these past few years. She has to know about the video and put two and two together from Dar Adal and Saul being in cahoots again. I'd want to be putting together some sort of plan to take out Haqqani and have a moderate put in power instead. She lives for the long con type strategies.

Maybe next season starts with her turning around the car and getting to the bottom of things instead of being blinded by dreams of an ordinary life and, yes very understandable, anger at Saul/Dar Adal for letting Haqqani run free.

Arzakon
Nov 24, 2002

"I hereby retire from Mafia"
Please turbo me if you catch me in a game.


Don't ignore the possibility of Pakistan and Haqqani never being mentioned again like their long con in Iran.

Junkenstein
Oct 22, 2003



Arzakon posted:

Don't ignore the possibility of Pakistan and Haqqani never being mentioned again like their long con in Iran.

That's the thing. I couldn't tell if this episode was an epilogue, capping the season, or if it was also setting up next season. Like, the mission Quinn went on. Is that meant to be a big deal that we'll see happen next year, or is it just another day at the office?

smg77
Apr 27, 2007


n3wt posted:

The finale wasn't just anti climatic, it was dumbdumb and didn't give us anything to look forward to in the next season. Not even the tiniest hook. Have the writers given up?

I'd love it if the next season focused on Saul selling his soul to get back in the intelligence game but it's going to be more stuff about Carrie making bad decisions and even worse facial expressions.

somethingawful bf
Jun 17, 2005


smg77 posted:

I'd love it if the next season focused on Saul selling his soul to get back in the intelligence game but it's going to be more stuff about Carrie making bad decisions and even worse facial expressions.

Man, her constant "pfft"-ing this season was really annoying

isaboo
Nov 10, 2002

BATTLE CAT
Punching Nazis Since 1992


Poetic Justice posted:

Man, her constant "pfft"-ing this season was really annoying

Haha! There was something extra annoying about Carrie's lines this season but I couldn't put my finger on it. As soon as I read this it all clicked. I guess I was distracted by her goofy loving faces.

HUGE SPACEKABLOOIE
Mar 31, 2010




smg77 posted:

I'd love it if the next season focused on Saul selling his soul to get back in the intelligence game but it's going to be more stuff about Carrie making bad decisions and even worse facial expressions.

Carrie fucks Haqqani into democracy

Gonz
Dec 22, 2009

"Jesus, did I say that? Or just think it? Was I talking? Did they hear me?"


The baby is actually Haqqani. Carrie's womb is a terror camp.

CAPS LOCK BROKEN
Feb 1, 2006

by Fluffdaddy


The fact that this shows gets to go on season after season is proof that its actually a CIA psyop

Binary Logic
Dec 28, 2000

Wash Your Hands


Fun Shoe

Arzakon posted:

Don't ignore the possibility of Pakistan and Haqqani never being mentioned again like their long con in Iran.

They might be mentioned but I expect next season to take place in the USA, not overseas. That storyline's wrapped up. It was a downer of a conclusion but sometimes the bad guys win and it was gutsy for a tv series to show that there isn't always a :twentyfour: Jack Bauer grabbing a katana off the wall to deliver harsh and bloodlust satisfying justice.

Given Obama's recent policy change on Cuba it would be nice to have some episodes on that sunny little isle as the CIA has to veer into a completely new direction there.

Binary Logic fucked around with this message at 11:05 on Dec 24, 2014

emanresu tnuocca
Sep 2, 2011

Clarke has more acting talent in her brows than most other actors, including herself, have in their entire body.



I thought they were setting up an IS related plot for next season.

mrfart
May 26, 2004

Dear diary, today I
became a captain.


emanresu tnuocca posted:

I thought they were setting up an IS related plot for next season.

Me too. I thought the writers felt they were being overtaken by reality.
"poo poo, what the gently caress are we still doing in Pakistan?! Syria and Iraq is were it's at. or rather IS at :downsrim: "
Sorry.
Anyway, if next season is Carrie sighing her way through family drama again I'll stop watching.

Zzulu
May 15, 2009


just finished the latest season and I enjoyed it. I personally think season 1 is the best, followed by S3, S4 and lastly S2 (which I thought was kind of bad). It was definitely a weird finale but I didn't really mind it as much as other goons did and I'm looking forward to Saul as the head honcho CIA man again

No Wave
Sep 18, 2005

Yogg-Saron fan #1


pahuyuth posted:

Haha! There was something extra annoying about Carrie's lines this season but I couldn't put my finger on it. As soon as I read this it all clicked. I guess I was distracted by her goofy loving faces.
The faces made more sense in S1 when nobody believed her and she was constantly struggling not to be ignored/written off as crazy. It's weird for her to still pull them once she's in charge and doesn't have to fight so hard to be listened to.

CODChimera
Jan 29, 2009



Arzakon posted:

Don't ignore the possibility of Pakistan and Haqqani never being mentioned again like their long con in Iran.

That could be the best way to do it though.

pentyne
Nov 7, 2012
turdiak


CODChimera posted:

That could be the best way to do it though.

That Homeland has reached the point where "scrap it and start over" each season from the previous meta-plot is a testament to how bad the writing is. No one cares if there are 3 brilliant episodes of TV surrounded by 7 complete poo poo ones and the only consistent thing is Carrie's spastic behavior.

Ero
Jun 18, 2006


Poetic Justice posted:

Man, her constant "pfft"-ing this season was really annoying

I'm glad i wasn't the only one supper annoyed by this. I never noticed it from other seasons.

CODChimera
Jan 29, 2009



pentyne posted:

That Homeland has reached the point where "scrap it and start over" each season from the previous meta-plot is a testament to how bad the writing is. No one cares if there are 3 brilliant episodes of TV surrounded by 7 complete poo poo ones and the only consistent thing is Carrie's spastic behavior.

I dunno, if they kept Brody's story to a single season things would probably have worked out better. And we have no real need to continue with the Iran or Pakistan storylines.

Wandle Cax
Dec 15, 2006


pentyne posted:

That Homeland has reached the point where "scrap it and start over" each season from the previous meta-plot is a testament to how bad the writing is. No one cares if there are 3 brilliant episodes of TV surrounded by 7 complete poo poo ones and the only consistent thing is Carrie's spastic behavior.

I don't know man this season contained actual genuine, real tension the likes of which I haven't experienced in other shows for a long time. Mind you the "non-brilliant" episodes weren't complete poo poo so there you go.

Binary Logic
Dec 28, 2000

Wash Your Hands


Fun Shoe

pentyne posted:

That Homeland has reached the point where "scrap it and start over" each season from the previous meta-plot is a testament to how bad the writing is. No one cares if there are 3 brilliant episodes of TV surrounded by 7 complete poo poo ones and the only consistent thing is Carrie's spastic behavior.

The CIA was unceremoniously chased out of Islamabad after 40 of their agents + assorted military were slaughtered. Haqqani is off in remote mountains, protected by the government.
This story is over for Carrie, no one is going to let her return the Pak as if nothing bad happened under her watch! She had at least 3 opportunities to take out Haqqani, and failed.
She is DONE there. It isn't "scrap it and start over", it's the end of a season and storyline.

Binary Logic fucked around with this message at 10:58 on Dec 29, 2014

PowerBuilder3
Apr 21, 2010


Really? After a embassy attack like that? CIA / USA would not be piddling around with drones, they'd roll out B2s and sticks of 2000lbs GPS bombs on all of Haq's assets. (See Afghanistan after 2001)

MetalFace
Jul 27, 2005
Join Us In Creating Excellence

pentyne posted:

That Homeland has reached the point where "scrap it and start over" each season from the previous meta-plot is a testament to how bad the writing is. No one cares if there are 3 brilliant episodes of TV surrounded by 7 complete poo poo ones and the only consistent thing is Carrie's spastic behavior.

Are you saying that having storylines contained within a season is bad writing? I'm pretty sure that's wrong. If I'm misunderstanding you then set me straight..

emanresu tnuocca
Sep 2, 2011

Clarke has more acting talent in her brows than most other actors, including herself, have in their entire body.



I think that the final episode of this season was a bad idea and that the penultimate one was a much better cliffhanger and set up for the next season, the Dar Adal twist was never gonna be great either way but resolving it an episode later with the Menhaem Begin equivocation was weak (not because the equivocation is inappropriate). Really the biggest complaint I have with Homeland at the moment, other than about a full season worth of filler between seasons 2 and 4, is the tendency to create these rather epic set pieces and ultimately become meaningless cause the show pulls away all the punches and is really skittish about killing off main characters.

I get it everybody loves Saul and Quinn, and Carrie is the protagonist and claire danes is the star of the show , but having all three of them survive this season was stupid, much like Season 1 Brody.

fletcher
Jun 27, 2003

ken park is my favorite movie

Cybernetic Crumb

I feel like this season could have been really incredible if it was properly edited and big chunks were cut out (sound familiar?). This season started off like poo poo, then it got good, but then it ended so much worse than it started. I was a big fan but after that finale I don't know if I'll come back to this show.

Invalid Validation
Jan 13, 2008

DON'T DOUBLE DOWN ON YOUR STUPID SHIT JUST CAUSE YOU THINK IT'S FUNNY. YOU MAKE STUPID FUCKING DECISIONS ALL THE TIME THEN DOUBLE DOWN LIKE A PETULANT CHILD. GOD I FUCKING HATE YOU SO MUCH SOMETIMES.






I keep watching this show and I don't know why. Carrie is a terrible character and nobody on earth would give her crazy rear end any power over anything but she keeps chugging along like she's super assassin. And it takes her one episode to become super mom after ignoring the ugly kid for years. What the gently caress?

flea
Oct 8, 2000


I still can't get over how bad that season finale was. What the gently caress were they thinking?

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Flayer
Sep 13, 2003
Probation
Can't post for 45 hours!


Buglord

Episodes 7 to 9 of S4 of Homeland were off the charts good, some of the best TV I've seen in years. The scene with Saul and Carrie on the runway was really powerful and moving stuff. It almost made up for the boring finale when Carrie goes out the back of Dars house and sees that Saul has become complicit, it brought me right back to the scene on the runway when Saul had disregarded the life of the child with the bomb vest and Carrie says to him (paraphrasing) "you're talking like one of them".Carrie was almost breaking apart seeing her mentor reduced to that, desperately pulling him through (as much for herself as for him) only to suffer the ultimate betrayal at the end. I loved that arc of the show. If only everything else could be on that level. It also really helps that Claire Danes has absolutely nailed playing a deeply flawed and in many ways unlike-able hero but one who's heart and motivation are true.

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