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Desperado Bones
Aug 29, 2009

Cute, adorable, and creepy at the same time!


Call of Cholula posted:

As somebody with no skin in the game at all regarding the comic but enjoyed the movie from a decade ago or whatever, I really enjoyed the pilot. I wouldn't expect it to stick around, seems pretty niche to me, but I said the same thing about Grimm and Once Upon A Time (neither of which I've ever seen beyond the commercials for them) and they're still around, right?

You should give a chance to Grimm, I'm still watching season 3 and it's quite entertaining. OUAT bored me to pieces once I realized it was "Disney: the TV show".

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Kampfbereit
Sep 6, 2011

A_Ruse! posted:

This first episode was pretty watchable. As a recent first time reader of the first few collections of Hellblazer, I'm not really sure we can except a faithful adaption. As the post I'm quoting notes, a lot of it was rather slow-burning heavy handed "lol gently caress thatcher" satire. The build up of those slow-burn issues MADE the occasional rear end in a top hat trickster out devils-the-devil stuff awesome, but mainstream TV can't sustain that episode to episode without getting dull and/or cheapening the effect. I'm just hoping to see quasi-John do the cool Hellblazer stuff once in awhile, without too much bad TV poo poo getting in the way.

Yeah, I totally understand why they can't be 100% faithful to the comic timeline. It's like Hannibal, the lead is too young to have had the same history as the original character (unless they somehow explain that he's actually 50+ years old but due to The Sacred Macguffin he looks younger). And most of the early brit-political stuff might be a bit boring or confusing to the general US audience, as awesome as they are.

The extremely long story lines don't lend themselves to network TV either, I suppose. Like how the aforementioned Neo-nazi story actually started back when John was a young punk con-artist in the 70's, and then continued throughout Azzarello's entire run. That story line alone would take several seasons of TV.

Still, it would be a shame if they just turned Constantine into another run-of-the-mill paranormal show. If is infinitely more fun to see an rear end in a top hat con-artist pit demons against each other and scam Satan.

I wish I was you, reading the TPBs for the first time. The early ones are terrific, but they get even better as they roped in better writers and artists (until the new 52, when it turned into absolute unreadable garbage for mongoloids). The spinoffs are really good as well (Chas, Lady Constantine, Papa Midnite).

Venmoch
Jan 7, 2007

Either you pay me or I flay you alive... With my mind!
Not sure if this has come up in the thread yet but a quick PSA to everyone from the UK who wants to watch this in a legal manner.

Somehow, it looks like Amazon UK has the rights to Constantine and are putting it up on Prime Instant Video about the same time as its broadcast in the US. Which quite frankly is amazing and I wish it would be done more.

Rocksicles
Oct 19, 2012

by Nyc_Tattoo
Must be how there is a 720 rip with no watermark for todays episode

mind the walrus
Sep 22, 2006

Guess it won't last too long then.

muscles like this!
Jan 17, 2005


Eugh

muscles like this!
Jan 17, 2005


Uh, apparently "no smoking" didn't really stick very long.

Rocksicles
Oct 19, 2012

by Nyc_Tattoo
Was alright, Zed's attractively seductive. Constantine is well English, dead happy with that

muscles like this!
Jan 17, 2005


John bringing a TV dinner to a funeral reception is pretty funny.

Luchadork
Feb 18, 2010

Take a look at the masked man
Beating up the wrong guy
Oh man! Wonder if he'll ever know
Chris Benoit killed his family
Pacing seems a little better for this episode. Still not great but better than the pilot.

Rocksicles
Oct 19, 2012

by Nyc_Tattoo
Is it the pilot though, if they changed it over the original pilot.. Episode 1 is probably more accurate

OmniBeer
Jun 5, 2011

This is no time to
remain stagnant!

Require More Fire posted:

Pacing seems a little better for this episode. Still not great but better than the pilot.

Yeah, I agree- this is never going to be, like, my favorite show of the week, but I'm enjoying it well enough.

Everything seems a lot more thought out/less jumpy than the pilot. I dunno, I feel like the guy playing John is fantastic, and I'll pretty much keep watching based on that alone. Haha.

Luchadork
Feb 18, 2010

Take a look at the masked man
Beating up the wrong guy
Oh man! Wonder if he'll ever know
Chris Benoit killed his family
Yeah John is definitely the high point, but he kind of should be so that's fine.

Edit: "I was thinking up a spell in my head." :lol:

Luchadork fucked around with this message at 03:40 on Nov 1, 2014

Mr. Meagles
Apr 30, 2004

Out here, everything hurts


holy poo poo this show is not good so far

seriously the movie nailed it in comparison to this

Binary Logic
Dec 28, 2000

Fun Shoe
What's the point of wearing a tie if it's so loose it serves no function.

I thought was a pretty good episode for a network version of the characters.

Josh Lyman
May 24, 2009


How is it that so many fewer people watched the pilot for this compared to The Flash when both pilots were leaked? Yes, Flash was better, but you wouldn't know that until after you've seen it, a la Gotham. Internet nerds are literally impossible to please.

Rocksicles
Oct 19, 2012

by Nyc_Tattoo
Ghosts and fantasy stuff don't do it for everyone. The Supernatural fans don't take to kindly to Castiel knock offs (i know).

Josh Lyman
May 24, 2009


Zed is better than the old girl, yes, but she also has accent problem. She's trying to cover up her hispanic accent, but it just makes her voice sound weird.

Deakul
Apr 2, 2012

PAM PA RAM

PAM PAM PARAAAAM!

Well, that was a bad episode of television.
Felt totally like a standard supernatural procedural.

I hope this isn't the sign of things to come.

KatWithHands
Nov 14, 2007
You know what, the front 95% of the episode was entertaining to me. It wasn't anything special, but it felt like a season 1/2 Supernatural episode, back when I still watched and liked the show. I didn't know they would be going the procedural route, but all in all I don't really mind it, especially paired up with Grimm.

The end, though, with John just casually tossing out that line about "nothing blacker than gypsy magic" made me cringe hardcore. I mean, in a show about magic, you're going to have people representing a religious/ethnic/etc group that are bad guys, and that's not a problem. You can have someone who is Romani, who is also the bad guy, but don't have someone who is the bad guy because they're Romani, man. That's hosed up. That entire scene would've gone the exact same way if they dropped that one line, because it wasn't actually necessary.

Rocksicles
Oct 19, 2012

by Nyc_Tattoo

KatWithHands posted:

You know what, the front 95% of the episode was entertaining to me. It wasn't anything special, but it felt like a season 1/2 Supernatural episode, back when I still watched and liked the show. I didn't know they would be going the procedural route, but all in all I don't really mind it, especially paired up with Grimm.

The end, though, with John just casually tossing out that line about "nothing blacker than gypsy magic" made me cringe hardcore. I mean, in a show about magic, you're going to have people representing a religious/ethnic/etc group that are bad guys, and that's not a problem. You can have someone who is Romani, who is also the bad guy, but don't have someone who is the bad guy because they're Romani, man. That's hosed up. That entire scene would've gone the exact same way if they dropped that one line, because it wasn't actually necessary.

If i've learned one thing from TV and Gypsies in general. They throw black Magic and curses around like it's their job.

mind the walrus
Sep 22, 2006

Deakul posted:

Well, that was a bad episode of television.
Felt totally like a standard supernatural procedural.

I hope this isn't the sign of things to come.

You know drat well it is.

Josh Lyman posted:

Zed is better than the old girl, yes, but she also has accent problem. She's trying to cover up her hispanic accent, but it just makes her voice sound weird.

Which is weird because John calls her out for being Latina in a white-as-gently caress part of the Mid-Atlantic. I'm chalking it up to the producers being piss-scared of a main character who isn't white or token and asking her to "tone it down."

-----------------

I liked this episode well-enough that Constnatine still gets to ride the wave of goodwill I have for it. Matt Ryan is still far and away the high point and I hope that this show's probable cancellation won't be the end of his career. I like Zed well enough so far, especially since they managed to make the stupid "person has dreams of someone and draws tons of pictures of them (and they happen to involve a lot of old comic art)" cliche work well enough.

That said this episode felt really goddamn aimless. I just watched Constantine drift from set to set and character to character without much sense of progress beyond what Constantine was telling me the progress was, ultimately ending back with the wife and I was like "oh so that's the villain; wait why the hell are they the villain what did I miss?" The shower was cool, the car was cool, the concept and realization of the coal minor ghosts was really cool, the church scene was cool, but in the end it's just all a lot of filler that hasn't quite figured out how to hook the audience into giving a gently caress.

Then again the pacing was much better. I like the visual style. I like that they kept Constantine's magic-casting to a minimum. For a network show it didn't seem to play things too safe or watered down, and the final moments of the villain were cliche but felt appropriately Hellblazer.

So yeah still undecided on whether or not I like or hate this show. Could still go either way. gently caress.

ghostwritingduck
Aug 26, 2004

"I hope you like waking up at 6 a.m. and having your favorite things destroyed. P.S. Forgive me because I'm cuter than that $50 wire I just ate."

Josh Lyman posted:

How is it that so many fewer people watched the pilot for this compared to The Flash when both pilots were leaked? Yes, Flash was better, but you wouldn't know that until after you've seen it, a la Gotham. Internet nerds are literally impossible to please.

I don't what your complaining about. Flash is a much better show. The pilot gave the sense that there was a long term plan and people already knew and liked the character from Arrow. The Constantine pilot has a good lead but was such a mess that the creators hit the reboot button for episode 2.

Hakkesshu
Nov 4, 2009


Binary Logic posted:

What's the point of wearing a tie if it's so loose it serves no function.

The outfit looks real loving bad in my opinion. Like no one would actually wear that outside of Comic-Con

Binary Logic
Dec 28, 2000

Fun Shoe

mind the walrus posted:

You know drat well it is.


Which is weird because John calls her out for being Latina in a white-as-gently caress part of the Mid-Atlantic. I'm chalking it up to the producers being piss-scared of a main character who isn't white or token and asking her to "tone it down."

-----------------

I liked this episode well-enough that Constnatine still gets to ride the wave of goodwill I have for it. Matt Ryan is still far and away the high point and I hope that this show's probable cancellation won't be the end of his career. I like Zed well enough so far, especially since they managed to make the stupid "person has dreams of someone and draws tons of pictures of them (and they happen to involve a lot of old comic art)" cliche work well enough.

That said this episode felt really goddamn aimless. I just watched Constantine drift from set to set and character to character without much sense of progress beyond what Constantine was telling me the progress was, ultimately ending back with the wife and I was like "oh so that's the villain; wait why the hell are they the villain what did I miss?"
I thought that last bit was very loyal to Constantine's actions in the comic books. He doesn't run in (magical) guns blazing but often has to casually approach the antagonist, let her (or him) think they've tricked him and got the upper hand, and then he pulls out the revelation and/or incantation to take them down.

Desperado Bones
Aug 29, 2009

Cute, adorable, and creepy at the same time!


ghostwritingduck posted:

I don't what your complaining about. Flash is a much better show. The pilot gave the sense that there was a long term plan and people already knew and liked the character from Arrow. The Constantine pilot has a good lead but was such a mess that the creators hit the reboot button for episode 2.

Now that you say that, this felt more like an episode 1 for me. So let's see how everything goes from now on. Like everyone else said, pacing improved quite well, and I agree that it was more like a Supernatural episode, which I don't have any complains about. Made me remember of the X-Files/Buffy type of random episode, just less FBI and vampires.

In a few words, I liked it. :)

Just hoping we get a main bad guy and see more of Manny and Chas in the following episodes.

muscles like this!
Jan 17, 2005


Something I thought was kind of weird is that it really felt like it was originally written with the series or at least this episode taking place in England, all the Welsh stuff and the Episcopalian (Anglican) priest.


All in all I did like this episode better than the first. Less time spent on set up meant the episode was paced better. There were some good character moments (like John and the frozen dinner) and Zed feels like a much better female lead. Mostly because they set her up to be mostly on a similar level as John, instead of just a walking damsel in distress.

jng2058
Jul 17, 2010

We have the tools, we have the talent!





I liked it. I didn't love it. I do love The Flash and the improved season 2 of Agents of SHIELD, though, so it becomes a question of whether I'll be willing to keep up with this show as well.

Firstborn
Oct 14, 2012

i'm the heckin best
yeah
yeah
yeah
frig all the rest

Hakkesshu posted:

The outfit looks real loving bad in my opinion. Like no one would actually wear that outside of Comic-Con

You know when he was covered in oil and just reappeared in the same outfit complete with super-loose tie? That was pretty bad. It's iconic, but if he just wore a Clash t-shirt and dad jeans or whatever I wouldn't have minded. The super loose tie and wrinkled shirt and stuff work if you think he's been wearing the same thing for a few days, but to put it on like that kind of made me roll my eyes.

To think that he intends to wear that same outfit every episode forever is funny and a little stupid, I think.

Desperado Bones
Aug 29, 2009

Cute, adorable, and creepy at the same time!


:v: Eventually someone will have to ask why is John wearing the same clothes. I want to hear a silly explanation.

I'm too lazy to make more gifs.

Binary Logic
Dec 28, 2000

Fun Shoe
Hellblazer isn't always a mess, Constantine can turn on the charm and is often portrayed in clean clothes put on correctly.



muscles like this? posted:

Something I thought was kind of weird is that it really felt like it was originally written with the series or at least this episode taking place in England, all the Welsh stuff and the Episcopalian (Anglican) priest.


All in all I did like this episode better than the first. Less time spent on set up meant the episode was paced better. There were some good character moments (like John and the frozen dinner) and Zed feels like a much better female lead. Mostly because they set her up to be mostly on a similar level as John, instead of just a walking damsel in distress.

Since he's in the USA it would be great to have an episode in Louisiana with John encountering Abby and referring to Swamp Thing. That would have to come later in the season with higher stakes involved, or part of an ongoing storyline with longer time span.

Firstborn
Oct 14, 2012

i'm the heckin best
yeah
yeah
yeah
frig all the rest
The showrunner confirmed that Swamp Thing will never be on this show, though. And a nice cleaned up suit would've been nice after the oil thing.

It kind of reminds me of Plinkett's review of Kingdom of the Crystal Skull, where someone says what an icon Indiana Jones is, but then Plinkett brings up the point of why he had to wear the same outfit. Indiana Jones is my Star Wars, I'll be the first to admit he's an icon, but it is kind of funny to wear the suit like a uniform. John is on-screen like 90% of the time in this show, I'd still loving recognize him in a t-shirt, guys. He doesn't need to wear the trench and stuff all the goddamn time.

hollylolly
Jun 5, 2009

Do you like superheroes? Check out my CYOA Mutants: Uprising

How about weird historical fiction? Try Vampires of the Caribbean

This felt like another pilot, almost. I still enjoyed it, but then, I don't have any ties to the original material beyond the movie (which apparently isn't much like the comics anyway).

The show will be 'monster of the week' with story arc episodes sprinkled in, just like any number of similar shows. And this is the second episode, most shows need more time to find their feet.

Ravane
Oct 23, 2010

by LadyAmbien

muscles like this? posted:

John bringing a TV dinner to a funeral reception is pretty funny.

Really enjoyed this part!

Desperado Bones
Aug 29, 2009

Cute, adorable, and creepy at the same time!


Ravane posted:

Really enjoyed this part!


Indeed.
:allears:

Sober
Nov 19, 2011

First touch: Life.
Second touch: Dead again. Forever.

Josh Lyman posted:

Zed is better than the old girl, yes, but she also has accent problem. She's trying to cover up her hispanic accent, but it just makes her voice sound weird.
Really now? Didn't know she had much of an accent but I swore in the mine scene she said something in Spanish anyway, so I didn't pay it any mind.

muscles like this!
Jan 17, 2005


It's not like John wears an elaborate costume, he wears a white shirt and a tie.

mind the walrus
Sep 22, 2006

Firstborn posted:

It kind of reminds me of Plinkett's review of Kingdom of the Crystal Skull, where someone says what an icon Indiana Jones is, but then Plinkett brings up the point of why he had to wear the same outfit. Indiana Jones is my Star Wars, I'll be the first to admit he's an icon, but it is kind of funny to wear the suit like a uniform. John is on-screen like 90% of the time in this show, I'd still loving recognize him in a t-shirt, guys. He doesn't need to wear the trench and stuff all the goddamn time.

B-B-B-B-B-B-But he's a superhero and superheroes wear a costume!

:qqsay:

-- Someone up high on the show. I guarantee it.

muscles like this? posted:

It's not like John wears an elaborate costume, he wears a white shirt and a tie.

Agreed but in the long run it's going to look really strange if he doesn't change his clothes up at all.

Binary Logic posted:

I thought that last bit was very loyal to Constantine's actions in the comic books. He doesn't run in (magical) guns blazing but often has to casually approach the antagonist, let her (or him) think they've tricked him and got the upper hand, and then he pulls out the revelation and/or incantation to take them down.

I acknowledged this in my post and you cut off my quote literally 2 sentences before I acknowledged that.

Binary Logic posted:

Since he's in the USA it would be great to have an episode in Louisiana with John encountering Abby and referring to Swamp Thing. That would have to come later in the season with higher stakes involved, or part of an ongoing storyline with longer time span.

Yeah but Swamp Thing means a heavy Special Effects budget for costumes, sets, and CGI. Constantine would have to be a pretty drat big hit before you could sell the network on that being necessary when most episodes you can get away with spooky ghosts and other low-budgets tuff.

isaboo
Nov 11, 2002

Muay Buok
ขอให้โชคดี
I know nothing about the Constantine mythos; what's his connection to Swamp Thing?

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mind the walrus
Sep 22, 2006

He first appeared in the pages of Alan Moore's very famous and influential run on Swamp Thing (he also did V for Vendetta, Watchmen, and the League of Extraordinary Gentlemen books among many others), which was a very mature horror book that completely rewrote the mythology of the title character and took him on an epic across the dark Gothic South, then the dark Gothic USA, then the DC Universe (he literally holds Gotham City and Batman hostage at one point), and then the literal DC Universe (seeing Adam Strange and Darkseid among many others). It featured some truly scary stories and had some very scandalous content even by today's standards, and DC ultimately supported it and gave it permission to run without the "Comics Code Authority" sticker which basically coincided with the end of the Newsstand and Corner Store being the place most people bought comics and the rise of Comics-Only Stores and the "Adult" market. It was so influential it led directly to the creation of DC's mature readers "Vertigo" line and directly led into the critically lauded series "The Sandman" as well as Constantine's own "Hellblazer."

Anyway about midway through Moore's run on Swamp Thing one of the main artists asked the writer to create a character that looked like Sting. Moore obliged and came up with a "low rent black mage" name John Constantine. Constantine shows up right after a formative experience has the Swamp Thing realizing he can grow a new body from any form of plant matter. Constantine is aware of rising dark forces and despite being a jerk convinces the Swamp Thing to go around the country dealing with all sorts of nasty riffs on classic horror icons (Werewolves and Vampires and Ghosts and the like), in exchange for the information Constantine knows about Swamp Thing's elemental nature. Pretty much all of Constantine's M.O. is there from the get-go-- he's a con man, a liar, a cheat, and any friends who get involved with his goals tend to end up much worse off for the trouble. Aside from one very poorly explained scene where Constantine takes great offense in a bar to being called gay, he arrived pretty much fully formed and ready to go and other British talent migrating to DC's nascent Vertigo line were very quick to take up the slack and get him his own book.

Since then Swamp Thing and Constantine have had a mutual "frenemy" kind-of relationship, with weird and dumb poo poo happening between them every now and again like Swamp Thing growing Constnatine a giant pot plant for his birthday party or Constantine letting Swamp Thing take over his body so he can impregnate his wife (seriously). You can do one without the other, but their histories are pretty inextricably linked forever.

mind the walrus fucked around with this message at 21:18 on Nov 1, 2014

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